perf-list-digest Monday, March 15 1999 Volume 02 : Number 059



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

FTE Perf - Cam information, 2nd post
Re: FTE Perf - radiator question
Re: FTE Perf - radiator question
FTE Perf - ADMIN: Tech Article updates
FTE Perf - Warranty Shaft: Letter
Re: FTE Perf - Warranty Shaft: Letter
Re: FTE Perf - radiator question
FTE Perf - FE/Rebuild stuffs
Re: FTE Perf - Warranty Shaft: Letter
RE: FTE Perf - Warranty Shaft: Letter
Re: FTE Perf - Warranty Shaft: Letter
Re: FTE Perf - Warranty Shaft: Letter
Re: FTE Perf - Warranty Shaft: Letter

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Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 21:33:44 -0600
From: Ezekial
Subject: FTE Perf - Cam information, 2nd post

I was wondering if anyone could tell me the specs on the factory cam in
a 93 351. And also if you knew of any good replacment cams to install
that doesn't effect the speed density computer. I plan on putting in a
chip in the future also.

- --
1993 Ford F-150 4x4 Off-Road, ext.cab short bed, 351(5.8)
3.55 gears, 31x10.5 Daytona Stag LT
1988 Ford F-150 2wd 302(5.0) auto, long bed-reg cab
Has been totaled and I am re-building it
Was my Grandpas truck, so theres sentimental value
It had the meanest factory 302 I have ever seen
1966 Mustang Fastback 289HP heads, 302block, Holley 4bbl,
EB intake, chrome headers-duals w/ super turbos,
4sp toploader, 9' rear 3.73 locked, Crager SS wheels
( F O R S A L E $7500 )
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.galstar.com/~derrick/index.html
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.galstar.com/~derrick/cars.html
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Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:57:30 -0600
From: Buck Shoff
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - radiator question

Hi Bryan,
If your 6 has the 21 5/8" wide core, I think that it will be to small
for a 302 that will be revved quite a bit. The 27 1/2" core will
probably work OK if it is in good condition. However, if memory serves,
the hose necks are backwards. Buck Shoff





Bryan Smith wrote:
>
> Would the stock radiator for a '81 F-100 with and I6-300 be good enough
> for a 302? The 302 will be a streat engine but will be revved quite a
> bit.
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Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:07:02 EST
From: WJeff43 AOL.COM
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - radiator question

The radiator that came on my 300/6 was much smaller than the one that came on
my friend's 302. The larger radiator that was used with the 302 will bolt
right into your truck, but you may have to drill some new mount holes on the
passenger side.
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Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 17:51:02 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE Perf - ADMIN: Tech Article updates

List member Mark Strickland has submitted a series of
new tech articles to Ford Truck Enthusiasts. You can
check them out on the web site.

Ken Payne
Admin

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Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:27:49 EST
From: FLR150 AOL.COM
Subject: FTE Perf - Warranty Shaft: Letter

Gang,
Attached is the letter that I have sent of f to the warranty company and the
president/CEO of Republic Industries. Sorry to FTE for using up the bandwidth.
Dear Customer Service Department:
I am writing this letter to praise and express my concern
over customer service issues. I purchased a 1994 F150 Flareside Supercab from
the Alpharetta, GA branch in December of 1997. The salesman that assisted me
was Joe Aligood. I must say that in my dealings with the automotive industry,
I have never encountered such a professional. Joe was extremely patient and
honorable with me. Admittably, I can be extremely difficult and obstinate. I
have to say that the concept your company has developed and put into function
has to be the most innovative and creative I have experienced. Since I have
two children, the childcare area and the later hours allowed me to make an
intelligent and unprejudiced decision on the vehicle I wanted.
At the time I purchased the truck, I also purchased the extended warranty. The
Fidelity Warranty plan seemed to be a good investment. Now, I believe that the
purchase of this plan was in haste and an error on my part. My reasoning for
stating this is due my present situation with the warranty company/AutoNation
branch. Back in August of last year, I started having "shuddering" problems
with the truck. It was only happening during the transmissions 3-4 upshift.
This would lead me to believe that it was transmission related. I can document
that on six separate occasions, I had taken my truck to both the Alpharetta
branch service department and the Stone Mountain branch service department. In
addition, for each time I took it in, I received six different causes to my
problem. Trust me when I tell you that I will not be taking my vehicle back to
either one of those service departments. I at that time contacted the Fidelity
Warranty number on my contract to try to get some closure to this problem.
The gentleman I spoke with at Fidelity was courteous and efficient and gave me
a quick solution to my problem by authorizing me to take it elsewhere. I took
the truck to Speedy Transmission in Alpharetta, GA. I had previously dealt
with this shop and they are professional and courteous. Jim at Speedy went for
a drive in my truck and came back to tell me that the Torque Converter was bad
and that he would contact Fidelity. The repair was scheduled. At that time,
Jim stated that the transmission had some worn parts. In his professional
opinion, these parts should be replaced while the other labor was being
performed. I understand that the warranty I purchased was a parts failure
warranty but I told Jim to ask the agent for Fidelity about the parts anyway,
to see what they would say. Of course the inspector told Jim no because the
parts had not failed. Jim then told them that if these parts were not
replaced, that I would be back to his shop within a year to have the
transmission rebuilt, as the new torque converter would put strain on the worn
parts. They again denied having any of the parts replaced. Now we fast-forward
to 7 months later and my truck is now back at Speedy with a complete
transmission failure.
As soon as Speedy's technicians looked at my truck, they confirmed my fear.
The transmission needed a complete rebuild. Jim contacted Fidelity and they
set up an appointment for the inspector to come out and look at the
transmission. At the time the inspector came out, he took several pictures of
the underhood and interior of my vehicle. When Jim called and told me that
they had called back and denied my claim I was incensed. I contacted Scott at
Fidelity and tried to find out why. I was forwarded to a gentleman other than
Scott and I was informed that the claim was denied due to parts under the hood
of my truck. The parts in question were an MSD 6AL ignition enhancer, a K and
N airfilter, and a computer chip. I have also added some colored plastic wire
loom and visual enhancements under the hood. I was appalled that a company as
large and knowledgeable as yours would try to deny a claim for such unrelated
components. I was told to review my warranty papers and as I did, I could find
no reason for the denial. The point in my paperwork the personnel at your
company kept trying to quote was the term about adding any MODIFICATIONS TO
THE VEHICLE NOT AUTHORIZED BY ITS MANUFACTURER. Well sirs, so you can
understand my position, those parts were purchased at a FORD dealership and
installed by a FORD CERTIFIED technician. Now why would a dealership sell
these parts if they would violate any kind of warranty? Moreover, if it would
violate any warranty, it would violate their very strict factory warranty,
which it does not. By this time my truck has been sitting for 2 days with no
attempt at my truck being repaired or any kind of customer service. After
repeated calls and discussions with various people in the transmission
departments at other companies, I completely confirmed that the above
additions would NOT put any undue strain on the transmission and there should
be no reason to NOT honor the warranty. I continually placed calls until I got
through to a customer service supervisor named Allan. He answered all my
questions in a similar manner to the other representatives, except he told me
that due to the expense of a complete rebuild, your company would replace the
transmission with a USED unit out of a total loss vehicle. He also blatantly
stated that since I have only 6,000 more miles on my warranty, which if this
transmission lasts 6,000.1 miles, then your company has fulfilled its
contractual obligations to me. I am extremely agitated by this. This
transmission model has been the subject of several technical service bulletins
by Ford Motor Company and has had several parts upgrades since 1994. The
transmission shop was going to make sure that the transmission was updated to
today's specifications for that unit, but now they were going to be stuck
putting a substandard unit back in to my vehicle.
I do not believe that I have been treated very fairly here. Why would a
company as large as yours scrimp on $1300? I know you are in the business of
making money, but as we sometimes have to do in my business, you spend some to
make the customer happy. I have never been treated with such contempt and
utter disrespect, as I have since I have been dealing with the warranty
branch. I understand that most people also would not question your replies or
motives, as most people do not actually work on their own vehicles. I however,
am quite knowledgeable about my vehicle. In addition, I do know that someone
has made a decision to bandaid my problem instead of fixing it right.
I have personally invested $1300 in the upgraded parts and labor to make sure
that I will not have these problems again. I have retrieved my vehicle from
Speedy Transmission repaired and upgraded. I have also added a larger
transmission fluid cooler and a transmission temperature gauge to monitor the
transmission.
I have been angered beyond limits since this ordeal started. I am a man who
has many acquaintances and I am a member of several large truck clubs and
discussion groups. I WAS recommending people to go to AutoNation to buy their
vehicles, even though your prices are higher in some circumstances, I thought
the customer service was worth the extra. I guess I was mistaken.

Wayne Foy
'94 Flareside SC
"Hazardous Material"
Wayne's Flareside Page
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Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:32:02 -0800
From: JJ Thomas
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Warranty Shaft: Letter

Which is why I will buy a an extended warranty from the MANUFACTURE **ONLY**!!!

I don't know if your situation comes under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty -
Federal Trade Commission Improvement Act, or not. It might, in which case
you might have grounds for a claim. Unfortunately, as you already aware...
they have they money, the time, the resources, etc, to drag this on until
the end of time.

I have walked in your shoes, down the path you are going... Never again!
I will never buy a third party warranty. Ever!

Good luck.

Julian




At 00:27 03/15/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Gang,
>Attached is the letter that I have sent of f to the warranty company and the
>president/CEO of Republic Industries. Sorry to FTE for using up the bandwidth.
>Dear Customer Service Department:

==========/ snip /==========

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Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:25:59 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - radiator question

>Would the stock radiator for a '81 F-100 with and I6-300 be good enough
>for a 302? The 302 will be a streat engine but will be revved quite a
>bit.

Its always been my feeling that you should get the cooling system updated
based on power, not on displacement. Of course there's inherently more
power in the larger displacements, so if you are hopping up your 302 to
tons of power, and you plan on racing it, you might look at swapping to a
factory 351 or 460 radiator, provided the hookups are in the same place.
Someone else mentioned capacities, and this is what I would base my choices
off of.


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
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Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:36:33 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: FTE Perf - FE/Rebuild stuffs

Well all, dropped the crank in this weekend, or tried anyway. Was doin the
plasti-gauge thing, but the bearings are comin up barely in spec
(.0020-.0025), since I'm not buildin a race motor, I was hopin they'd be a
little tighter. Does the cold affect the plastigauge much ? Its been
barely above freezing (though tonight when I get home it should be 50+ woo
hoo :). Anyway those of you who've used it (successfully), do you lay it
across the whole journal, or just a part of it ? Did you have oil grooves
all the way around the bearings, or just in 1/2 the bearing ? Will this
affect the results ? I'm plannin on calling the machine shop today to see
what he has to say about this, and I guess I wouldn't have to worry about
knocking and such since it is all new and within spec, but still, its not a
race motor, I just use the truck to commute and play...

Also while I was looking at the crank I finally found some casting numbers.
So all you part # guru's, what crank do I have ?
Front counter weight : 39 (38?) cast into it)
3rd counter weight : (front of the 2,6 journal) AMS 832
4th counter weight : (rear of 3,7 journal) R10 M10 (might be 0's might
be o's)

Now that I think about it the 39 on the front might indicate a 390 ???
Anyway that's all I saw on it.

As for the shortie's thing ... Marko, I see what you're talking about on
the passenger's side, lemme look at your website again at the passenger's
side ...(added a link to your page off of my links page, hope that's okay:)
... I'll measure it tonight, but it looks like the collector is right
where the pipe is running on mine ... you'll probably end up hookin the
pipe back in towards the tranny to get around the frame, but it looks
similar to what I have now with the stock manifolds (the "log" on the
passenger's side).

Thanks guys, lemme know what you know now ...

wish
Auto links: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html

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Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:22:50 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Warranty Shaft: Letter

At 12:27 AM 3/15/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Gang,
>Attached is the letter that I have sent of f to the warranty company and the
>president/CEO of Republic Industries. Sorry to FTE for using up the bandwidth.

Let me relate an experience that recently happened and perhaps you'll see
that posting to the group was not the best thing to do (yet).

On the FTE web site BBS, a person posted a similar letter about a problem
they had with a company. Rather than tell the company that they would post
the message if the problem was not resolved, they simply posted it. The
company's record is tarnished, rightfully so, but the damage is already
done. If they had told the company that they would post the letter if
the issue wasn't resolved, the company would have a fair opportunity to
take care of the issue. I think your chances of having the issue resolved
have been reduced by this. In other words, look before you leap.

Ken Payne

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Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:35:03 -0700
From: "Giddens, Scott"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Warranty Shaft: Letter

Wayne,

Excellent letter! I esp. liked the part about the modifications being done
by an "authorized Ford service dept." If it does not violate the
manufacturers warranty then they don't have a leg to stand on.

IMHO, they accepted the responsibility for the transmissions failure when
they told the repair shop to use bad parts the first time. Which was more
likely to cause the failure, bad parts or the fuel saving upgrades you made?
If the parts were there the first time they agreed to repair the
transmission then it is obvious to everyone they are looking for excuses to
cover their rear. If they accepted the upgrades then why are they not now
when they did before?

Just a little advice, I don't mean to criticize you and I know it angers you
but try not to seem that way. They fear you the most when you are calm,
confident, and insistent. I am also very hot headed when it comes to the BS
you have to put up with and it took me a long time to learn to not let them
know that. Be careful when you threaten to publicly denounce them because
they don't respond well to that. The way they see it you are already mad at
them and even if they agree to fix it you have already formed an opinion and
will not give them the chance to make it up.

Get a letter from the shop stating the failure was due to their refusal to
replace bad components, a letter from the shop stating the improvements was
made by an authorized Ford dealer and does not violate their standard
warranty, and a copy of the TSB from Ford. Then write another letter and
include a copy of everything.

If you know someone who is an attorney have them write a letter with the
enclosed documentation and send it to them. An attorney may charge you about
50 to 100 bucks to write it if you don't know anyone who can to do it as a
favor. Sometimes a legal assistant or a paralegal can write it for you from
their law firm with their letter head and give the impression that you have
found legal support.

Good luck!
Scott
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Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:11:31 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Warranty Shaft: Letter

Extended warranty companies are famous for 2 things:

1. Catch 22s like the one Wayne just experienced. OK so the part hasn't
failed yet so technically it's not covered. But since you were told about it
and chose not to do anything about it they aren't going to cover it. My
brother had this happen to him with a camshaft.

2. Going out of business, although I doubt this will happen to Republic
Industries but Huizinga could sell it to some other joker who could take the
money and run.

I agree whole heartedly with whoever posted the message about NEVER buying
an extended warranty that isn't backed up with the blue oval. In all my 17
years in the auto industry I've never seen anyone (who didn't deserve it)
get screwed by Ford ESP.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Giddens, Scott
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 8:40 AM
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Warranty Shaft: Letter


>Excellent letter! I esp. liked the part about the modifications being done
>by an "authorized Ford service dept." If it does not violate the
>manufacturers warranty then they don't have a leg to stand on.
>
>IMHO, they accepted the responsibility for the transmissions failure when
>they told the repair shop to use bad parts the first time. Which was more
>likely to cause the failure, bad parts or the fuel saving upgrades you
made?
>If the parts were there the first time they agreed to repair the
>transmission then it is obvious to everyone they are looking for excuses to
>cover their rear. If they accepted the upgrades then why are they not now
>when they did before?
>



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Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:15:01 EST
From: FLR150 AOL.COM
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Warranty Shaft: Letter

Ken,
Thanks for the advice. BUT, this saga has been ongoing for 2 months now. I
have spoken with many representatives in as many branches of Republic
Industries as possible. I have yet to receive any kind of good response. Even
the General manager of the AutoNation where I bought the truck wont return my
calls. And this was before I even mentioned writing a letter or telling anyone
else of my experience. I have gone through countless "CUSTOMER SERVICE" reps
telling each and every one of them the exact same recountance of my experience
and each one keeps getting more and more assinine and talkative about what
they HAVE done for me. I believe I have given them as many opportunities as
they need to cough up a check for at least part of the parts and repair, which
by the way I placed on the table almost immediately for them to consider. You
know, it really sucks to pull that long knife out of your back from a company
that you have sung praises about.
Nuf Said,
Wayne Foy
'94 Flareside SC
"Hazardous Material"


In a message dated 3/15/99 11:23:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, kpayne ford-
trucks.com writes:


the issue wasn't resolved, the company would have a fair opportunity to
take care of the issue. I think your chances of having the issue resolved
have been reduced by this. In other words, look before you leap.

Ken Payne >>
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Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:01:25 -0600
From: "James Lowry"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Warranty Shaft: Letter

- -----Original Message-----
From: JJ Thomas
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 1:46 AM
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Warranty Shaft: Letter


>Which is why I will buy a an extended warranty from the MANUFACTURE
**ONLY**!!!
>
>I don't know if your situation comes under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty -
>Federal Trade Commission Improvement Act, or not. It might, in which case
>you might have grounds for a claim. Unfortunately, as you already aware...
>they have they money, the time, the resources, etc, to drag this on until
>the end of time.
>
>I have walked in your shoes, down the path you are going... Never again!
>I will never buy a third party warranty. Ever!
>
>Good luck.
>
>Julian
>
Greetings folks,
As a dealership service tech I have seen some of the dealings that people
have had with what we techs call 'outlaw warranty' companys.
It can get to be a frustrating experiance for some and this is unfortunate.
No doubt some of them can be like dealing with a lawyer or even a liberal
for that account, as they can interpret the rules in a multitude of ways to
fit a given situation. ALWAYS read the fine print especially if you like to
soup up your ride!
The folks who recommended your trans be 'fixed right the first time',
Wayne, they were dead on the money. Under a regular factory warrawnty, with
a certian given amount of miles on the trans, AODE-4R70W-right?!- We always
tear down and inspect the internals for wear of any kind. Usually this is....


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