perf-list-digest Thursday, February 18 1999 Volume 02 : Number 042



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

FTE Perf - Dizzy
FTE Perf - RE: mufflers (correction)
FTE Perf - Banks Power pack
Re: FTE Perf - dizzy?????
FTE Perf - Springs
Re: FTE Perf - RE: mufflers (correction)
Re: FTE Perf - RE: mufflers (correction)
Re: FTE Perf - RE: mufflers (correction)
Re: FTE Perf - RE: mufflers (correction)
RE: FTE Perf - Muffler
[none]
FTE Perf - FTE 61-79 - 400 performance was: Re:
FTE Perf - Re: gt40s
Re: FTE Perf - dizzy?????
RE: FTE Perf - Re: gt40s
RE: FTE Perf - Muffler
RE: FTE Perf - Muffler
RE: FTE Perf - Muffler
FTE Perf - A little help on parts ID
Re: FTE Perf - Banks Power pack
Re: FTE Perf - Banks Power pack
Re: FTE Perf - ranger clutches
Re: FTE Perf - dizzy?????
Re: FTE Perf - FTE 61-79 - 400 performance was: Re:
Re: FTE Perf - Muffler
FTE Perf - Mufflers

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:39:34 -0500
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Dizzy

Dale writes: >>Is dizzy a common term for a distributor?? I have been turning
wrenches for
over 25 years but had never seen or heard this term used until I ran across
it last year on the diy_efi list. Seemed like the aussies were using it
exclusively, does anyone know where it originated from?
I live in the central US (Nebraska) and it is not used around here.


That's OK Dale. I live in North Alabama(right on the Tennessee line) and I've
been turning wrenches for most of my adult years and I'm 62 and I've never heard
a Distributor called a "Dizzy", either.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:05:21 -0500
From: Paul M Radecki
Subject: FTE Perf - RE: mufflers (correction)

I posted:

>>Agreed, but the Edelbrock is supposedly packed with stainless steel
wool
>>rather than fiberglass,

I was reminded that steel wool is flammable and therefore not appropriate
muffler packing! (D'oh!) Upon re-checking, I discovered that the
Edelbrock mufflers are made of a stainless case and tubing with a
"special non-deteriorating ceramic packing", not fiberglass or stainless
wool. My apologies to the list (and the good people at Edelbrock).
While fire shooting from the tailpipe would look cool it is NOT what I
had in mind...

lordjanusz juno.com
'94 F150 300ci
'73 F100 360 (?) FE
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:16:45 EST
From: Metalsped AOL.COM
Subject: FTE Perf - Banks Power pack

I was wondering if anyone knew if the Banks Power Pack is worth the money. I
am in the procecss of rebuilding my 460 and I want to make some serious power.
And I believe that the Banks is an option that is really worth looking at.
Thanks
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:14:16 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - dizzy?????

>I live in the central US (Nebraska) and it is not used around here.
>
That's cause you're one of those weirdo Corn Husker types ... we use it
here in IA once in a while...

:)


Just my 2cents

wish

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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:46:48 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: FTE Perf - Springs

Some of you may (or may not) remember that I had new springs ordered to try
and get the front levelled with the rear so it didn't look so jacked up in
the back. They came in last night, and being the ambitious (bored?) fellow
that I am I decided to give it a shot. It was probably quite entertaining
to watch, since I didn't want the truck falling on me. I hooked the engine
hoist to the front frame rails, and used a jack under the cab frame to
control the frame height. Then I used a floor jack to work the axle up and
down. I was able to remove the wheel and the shock (lower bolts only) and
let the floor jack down enough that the spring unloaded itself. One of the
top spring retainers twisted a bolt off, so I have to put that back on, but
overall it went well.

The result ? 2 1/2" higher than before. I figure its probably 2" overall
since they hadn't seated yet when I measured the first time. But its so
nice to look out over a fairly level hood ...

Now my question for you guys, how far do new springs "settle out" ?? or is
that a thing of the past ? The springs are Perfect Circle brand
progressive rate, just stock replacements (I wanted to park in the garage
still)...

Thanks to everyone for helpin me out with this. I'll have pics of it up in
a week or so.


Thanks,
wish
73ish F-1?? 4x4 360-->390
96 Mustang GT

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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:39:38 EST
From: JUMPINFORD AOL.COM
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - RE: mufflers (correction)

In a message dated 2/17/99 5:16:58 AM Pacific Standard Time,
lordjanusz juno.com writes:


in mind... >>

So If I can find a way to fill my muffler, are you sayin I'll shoot flames?
Cuz Tweety is lookin to be just a lil bit more noticable.

Darrell Duggan
74 F-350 "Tweety"
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:52:34 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - RE: mufflers (correction)

>
>in mind... >>
>
>So If I can find a way to fill my muffler, are you sayin I'll shoot flames?
>Cuz Tweety is lookin to be just a lil bit more noticable.
>

A sparkplug in the tail pipe, with some creative wiring, should do the
trick ... check out the local hot rodders ... most of them will have some
idea how to do this, who knows they may even have a kit or two laying
around ...


Just my 2cents

wish

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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:27:16 EST
From: FLR150 AOL.COM
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - RE: mufflers (correction)

In a message dated 2/17/99 11:44:49 AM Eastern Standard Time,
JUMPINFORD AOL.COM writes:


Cuz Tweety is lookin to be just a lil bit more noticeable >>
LMAO Darrell
I think Tweety is noticeable enough doing a 32' long jump, don't you?
Wayne Foy
'94 Flareside SC
"Hazardous Material"
Wayne's Flareside Page
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:25:56 -0800
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - RE: mufflers (correction)

Thanks for your message at 11:39 AM 2/17/99 EST, JUMPINFORD AOL.COM. Your
message was:
>In a message dated 2/17/99 5:16:58 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>lordjanusz juno.com writes:
>
>
>in mind... >>
>
>So If I can find a way to fill my muffler, are you sayin I'll shoot flames?
>Cuz Tweety is lookin to be just a lil bit more noticable.
>
I remember when I was sixteen, an off-duty state trooper showed us how to
soak our mufflers in oil before installing them in order to burn out the
insides sooner. No flames, but a lot of smoke...Can you imagine that today?


Dennis Pearson in Kennewick, WA

1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
1966 F250 Custom Cab, 352, 4-speed
1962 short stepside (big empty space under the hood)
I shortened this to only FT's

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:26:02 -0500
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Muffler

Just for the record, flowing almost as good as a straight pipe doesn't mean
too much. Flowmasters are known backpressure creaters, but they make more
power than other brands that have less backpressure.

i am not advocating flowmasters - just making a point.

There are 2 types of mufflers:
backpressure and absorbtion.

flowmaster, moroso spiral, are backpressure
Borla, thrush, are absorbtion.
and a supertrapp is a combo of both.

althogh there are good and bas brands and designs on the market, each kind
works well in specific conditions for specific applications. no single
muffler is best for everything.

i don't remember your application, but basically almost any name brand
(like borla, flowmaster, walker, etc) will be an improvemant over stock.
also consider that some, like Borla have 1 million mile warraties or some
such deal. stainless is a wonderful material for exhaust systems.

unless you are running hard all the time, sound may be more important than
actual performance, or at least more satisfying.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Bryan G Sheffler[SMTP:bubba-g500xl juno.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 1:42 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Muffler

JC,
Like I said in an earlier posting, you can't go wrong with the
Walker Super Turbos. They have a lot of different case configurations
and flow pretty good. They have even been tested to flow almost as well
as a straight pipe!! They are also not very loud mufflers (like any
thing Thrush makes). I'm putting these on my '63 Marauder (the "Hemi"
Super Turbos). They are well constructed and from my experience, last a
good long time.

Bryan



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:52:22 -0700
From: Steve Tymchyshyn
Subject: [none]

I am new to this system, and need to make some new contacts.

I have a 1977 F-100 with a straight six in it with low kilometers. Its a
good reliable engine, however, I want to turn the truck into something with
some real power.

On a recent "junking" trip I was able to purchase a 79 F-150 with a 6.6L
(400cid) mated with a rebuilt C6, and loads of extras I am going to strip
and sell.

When I purchased the truck I didn't look close enough and thought it was a
351, and had a pretty good idea of how I was going to maximize my ponies.

However, I've heard that the 400 is a low compression engine and may have
difficulty getting the power I want (325hp - 350hp).

I am looking for suggestions, before I open it up for machining.


steve.tymchyshyn gov.ab.ca
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:45:09 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: FTE Perf - FTE 61-79 - 400 performance was: Re:

You are correct about the 400 being a low compression engine. So was the
351M for that matter. You'll definitely want to get a 4V manifold & carb,
these are aftermarket only items. A good cam is also a must but I'm going to
let some of the Mexperts (no that's not a typo) go into that in more detail.

Now about the compression, no one makes flat top hi comp pistons for the 400
unless you go with custom slugs...can you beaucoup $...so you basically
have 2 choices, decking the block and/or shaving the heads or using 351C
pistons and bushing the rods for the smaller wrist pins. I'm told that
depending on the style piston you can get 9.5+:1 out of a set of flat tops.

Finally spend some time in the archives on the website. There's allot of
great info from past discussions.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Steve Tymchyshyn
To: 'perf-list ford-trucks.com' ;
'61-79-list ford-trucks.com'
Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 11:58 AM


>>
>On a recent "junking" trip I was able to purchase a 79 F-150 with a 6.6L
>(400cid) mated with a rebuilt C6, and loads of extras I am going to strip
>and sell.
>
>When I purchased the truck I didn't look close enough and thought it was a
>351, and had a pretty good idea of how I was going to maximize my ponies.
>
>However, I've heard that the 400 is a low compression engine and may have
>difficulty getting the power I want (325hp - 350hp).
>
>I am looking for suggestions, before I open it up for machining.



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:59:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Ryan Reinke
Subject: FTE Perf - Re: gt40s

Can anyone give me a web site or two to show a co-worker what a GT40
was. Performance data in relation to a Mustang or Vette would be great!
==
Ryan Reinke
Computer Tech Support
Broadband Associates Inc.

11066 Rodeo Circle Rural Route 2
Parker, CO 80138 Byron, NE 68325
(303)805-3946 (402)730-3954 (402)236-8795
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:11:49 -0500
From: "gpeters3"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - dizzy?????

I have no idea but I use it because I can type it much faster than "d i s t
r i b u t o r" and since the z's are duplicated I don't have to think as
hard to remember how to spell it :-)

Michigan Pot Hole Jumping, 78 Bronco lover, Gary

>Is dizzy a common term for a distributor?? I have been turning wrenches
for
>over 25 years but had never seen or heard this term used until I ran across
>it last year on the diy_efi list. Seemed like the aussies were using it
>exclusively, does anyone know where it originated from?


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:25:14 -0800
From: "O'Connell, Dennis M"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Re: gt40s

there are several sites on the web about the GT40. I didn't see anything
on performance comparisons, but this site did give specs.

- -http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ecs.fullerton.edu/~dacia/fordgt40.htm

Dennis
55 f100
> ----------
> From: perf-list ford-trucks.com[SMTP:perf-list ford-trucks.com]
> Reply To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 1:59 PM
> To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE Perf - Re: gt40s
>
>
>
> Can anyone give me a web site or two to show a co-worker what a GT40
> was. Performance data in relation to a Mustang or Vette would be great!
> ==
> Ryan Reinke
> Computer Tech Support
> Broadband Associates Inc.
>
> 11066 Rodeo Circle Rural Route 2
> Parker, CO 80138 Byron, NE 68325
> (303)805-3946 (402)730-3954 (402)236-8795
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> >
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:17:15 -0800
From: "O'Connell, Dennis M"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Muffler

All this muffler discussion has got me thinking. I am currently running
stock exhaust manifolds on a mildly built 429 (500HP?) with single chamber
flowmasters. Recently had the heads reworked and the smog bump removed from
the exhaust port. Now the Flowmasters have gone from racy to loud. At idle
I vibrate the neighbors windows and set off car alarms. I'm now changing
out the stock manifolds with Hooker comp headers(the long ones). When that
happens I can't imagine what it's going to sound like so I want to change
out the Flowmasters before my neighbors burn my truck.

Anyone have any recommendations on mufflers that will give me performance,
enough sound to make the Chevy's wonder, yet not enough to set off alarms
when I idle buy?

Dennis
55 F100

> ----------
> From: perf-list ford-trucks.com[SMTP:perf-list ford-trucks.com]
> Reply To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 11:26 AM
> To: 'perf-list ford-trucks.com'
> Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Muffler
>
> Just for the record, flowing almost as good as a straight pipe doesn't
> mean
> too much. Flowmasters are known backpressure creaters, but they make more
>
> power than other brands that have less backpressure.
>
> i am not advocating flowmasters - just making a point.
>
> There are 2 types of mufflers:
> backpressure and absorbtion.
>
> flowmaster, moroso spiral, are backpressure
> Borla, thrush, are absorbtion.
> and a supertrapp is a combo of both.
>
> althogh there are good and bas brands and designs on the market, each kind
>
> works well in specific conditions for specific applications. no single
> muffler is best for everything.
>
> i don't remember your application, but basically almost any name brand
> (like borla, flowmaster, walker, etc) will be an improvemant over stock.
> also consider that some, like Borla have 1 million mile warraties or some
>
> such deal. stainless is a wonderful material for exhaust systems.
>
> unless you are running hard all the time, sound may be more important than
>
> actual performance, or at least more satisfying.
>
> sleddog
>
> ----------
> From: Bryan G Sheffler[SMTP:bubba-g500xl juno.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 1:42 AM
> To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Muffler
>
> JC,
> Like I said in an earlier posting, you can't go wrong with the
> Walker Super Turbos. They have a lot of different case configurations
> and flow pretty good. They have even been tested to flow almost as well
> as a straight pipe!! They are also not very loud mufflers (like any
> thing Thrush makes). I'm putting these on my '63 Marauder (the "Hemi"
> Super Turbos). They are well constructed and from my experience, last a
> good long time.
>
> Bryan
>
>
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:49:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Ryan Reinke
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Muffler

Awsome!

If I could just get an I6 to do that!


At idle
> I vibrate the neighbors windows and set off car alarms. I
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:00:24 -0500
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Muffler

the headers will most likely increase the noise. the extra noise after the
head work was performed was most likely due to the removal of the
restrictive bump in the ex ports, unless you also did a cam change or such.

So to decrease the noise again, you would need more muffler. my
suggestion, if you like the way the flowmasters sound, is to get a 2 or 3
chamber flowmaster. the tone will be about the same, just not as loud i
would think.

I can say that for my 77, the borla's i have would be much quieter if i had
a full exhaust system instead of mounting tham directly to the header. but
in their present location, they make quite a rumble, and set off car
alarms.

you could also put in a second muffler, another 1 chamber flowmaster
perhaps, somwwhere in the system.

If i had to run mufflers on my pulltruck, that is my method. 2 mufflers -
one on the header of my own design, and one downline like a borla 5"
in/out.

sleddog

- ----------
From: O'Connell, Dennis M[SMTP:DMO1 pge.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 5:17 PM
To: 'perf-list ford-trucks.com'
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Muffler

All this muffler discussion has got me thinking. I am currently running
stock exhaust manifolds on a mildly built 429 (500HP?) with single chamber
flowmasters. Recently had the heads reworked and the smog bump removed
from
the exhaust port. Now the Flowmasters have gone from racy to loud. At
idle
I vibrate the neighbors windows and set off car alarms. I'm now changing
out the stock manifolds with Hooker comp headers(the long ones). When
that
happens I can't imagine what it's going to sound like so I want to change
out the Flowmasters before my neighbors burn my truck.

Anyone have any recommendations on mufflers that will give me performance,
enough sound to make the Chevy's wonder, yet not enough to set off alarms
when I idle buy?

Dennis
55 F100



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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:05:27 -0800
From: Don Grossman
Subject: FTE Perf - A little help on parts ID

Hey all

I just picked up a 360 with rods through block but I wanted the
heads and exhaust mans. The owner only wanted the adjustable rockers
:( I also picked up a ( as I am told) a 390 with a C6 still attached.
As any good enthusiast would do I picked up some of my material
(HTRBBFE, by Steve Christ) to check out the numbers. The heads check
out as standard 360,390, 428 heads D2TE AA. Now when I check the front
of the block I see an inverse 501 which would be FT block. The oil
adapter is the side mounted one. What it looks like so far is a FT with

regular heads instead of FT heads.

Next is the transmission. there is a 5/ on the top of the housing.
I have not seen one like this. Does anyone have any visuals of C6's
that they are willing to share? I have lots of information on FE/FT's
but seem to be lacking in the Automatic tranny department.

One last thing. Does anyone have a listing for the different
intakes that were made. So far I have a total of 3 different 4v
intakes. The one in my truck now the one on the 360 and the one on the
FT. All 3 look similar on the outside but what makes them different?

I Might be away for a week so please forgive the slow response

TIA

- --
Don Grossman
duckdon pacific.net

99 Contour SE Sport
63 F-100 4x4 with 3/4 ton running gear and most of the trimmings.


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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 99 17:20:21 PST
From: "Doug Ridder"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Banks Power pack

What components are included in the package? How much is it? What do =
they claim the expected results should be?

Doug

- ----------
> I was wondering if anyone knew if the Banks Power Pack is worth the mon=
ey. I
> am in the procecss of rebuilding my 460 and I want to make some serious=
power.
> And I believe that the Banks is an option that is really worth looking =
at.
> Thanks
> =3D=3D FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq=
.html


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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:46:42 EST
From: Metalsped AOL.COM
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Banks Power pack

All the info you need is right here
GBford.html at www.getpower.com
(scroll down to 460 kit) . I don't know the exact price, but for
everything that you get, you would probably have to give up an arm and a leg.

Rich
1989 Centurion C350
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:20:17 -0500
From: Tim Turner
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - ranger clutches

steven wilmarth wrote:
>
> flow from the tailpipe". the problem is the chatter. from a dead stop and
> from reverse i have clutch chatter. it is not apparant when i'm moving and
> it is really bad under a load "up a hill etc" is there anything else i
> should look at besides oil/grease on the clutch surfaces?

The items mentioned in other posts should be checked first, but if you
let the tranny 'hang' on the input shaft it could be bent and causing
some of your problem. Hope this isn't it though! :-)

TT
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:25:47 -0500
From: Tim Turner
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - dizzy?????

> Seemed like the aussies were using it
> exclusively, does anyone know where it originated from?
> I live in the central US (Nebraska) and it is not used around here.

Not used here in the SE Coast of US but I *like* it :-)

TT
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:37:51 MST
From: "Eric Guin"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - FTE 61-79 - 400 performance was: Re:

I have a 400M and have done some research on them. also had a big
discussion on them a few months ago. The 400M never came with anything
higher than a 8.23:1 comp. ratio, except for a few rumors about an
engine made in 73....anyway, they also come with 2v heads, same that the
clevelands use. The heads are sufficent since the intake ports are
larger than most 2V ports, they also have 2.somthin inch intake valves
and 1.6 inch exaust valves. They flow pretty well.
They were extremly "under cammed" from the factory since they were made
as smog engines(low emmission engine)A new cam would do you good, comp
cam's x-treme energy has a good model for hot rodding, a more moderate
cam should be used for off roading. If you go with a new 4bbl manifold
and carb, try to keep the cfm's of the carb around 600 so the manifold
velocity stays at a reasonable level, gives good torque. As mentioned
before there are no after market pistons made for the 400M, but
cleveland pistons can be used with a little modification. another option
is to have the heads shaved. I think it only takes 0.025 inches of
shaving to get a comp. ratio of 9.4:1, I will check up on that and get
back to you.
Thats it for now, is this info all correct guys??
AZ Eric
'79 Bronco, 400M/T-18/np-205
a4wheelin_mudder hotmail.com

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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:17:09 -0500
From: Bryan G Sheffler
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Muffler

Dennis,
If you want to stay with the Flowmasters, get a three chamber unit,
it will be quieter. All things being equal, there are two things that
will determine the sound level of your exhaust system 1) pipe diameter
and 2) muffler case size. The larger the pipe diameter, the louder it
will be and the larger the case size the quieter it will be. I have a
set of Borlas (small case) on my '79 T/A and they will wake up the
neighbors and set off car alarms when under load. At idle they are not
to bad, but they are still loud. I personally "LOVE" the way they sound
and they have been on the car for about ten (10) years. They do get loud
cruising on the freeway, but boy do they sound GOOD. As far as
flowmasters go, I have never really liked them. Too heavy and I don't
like the sound. I've mentioned before about the Walker Super Turbos and
Walker also makes an Ultra Flow muffler which from what I've seen is
their version of a Borla. I've seen tests where the Ultra Flows are a
little louder than the Super Turbos, which are pretty quiet, but I have
not actually heard them. I am thinking of using them on my '64 Galaxie
when the 427 HR motor is finally together (probably some time next
century...). I hope some of this helps. Mufflers are a lot like women,
every bodies got their preference!!!!!!

Bryan

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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:04:39 -0800 (PST)....


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