perf-list-digest Wednesday, February 10 1999 Volume 02 : Number 034



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

Re: FTE Perf - overheating???
Re: FTE Perf - overheating???
RE: FTE Perf - overheating???
RE: FTE Perf - overheating???
FTE Perf - Heating problem
Re: FTE Perf - overheating???
Re: FTE Perf - Heating problem
RE: FTE Perf - overheating???
Re: FTE Perf - Heating problem
Re: FTE Perf - 400 shorty headers
RE: FTE Perf - Heating problem
Re: FTE Perf - overheating???
Re: FTE Perf - overheating???
RE: FTE Perf - overheating???
RE: FTE Perf - overheating???
FTE Perf - Identify this
Re: FTE Perf - Identify this
FTE Perf - 400 Headers
Re: FTE Perf - 400 Headers
FTE Perf - Re: overheating??
Re: FTE Perf - Re: overheating??
Re: FTE Perf - Identify this

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Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:49:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Justin Farcas
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - overheating???

I used to have hte same problem with my 79. Almost exactly the same
symptoms. It eventually went away, so I was thinking air bubbles or
something. I was wondering though, how does belt tension cause a graet
amount of difference, and how SHOULD the fan operate. Mine runs freely,
and does not turn the engine over when I spin it.

-Justin Farcas
>
> >Consider the possibilty of air bubbles in the system. this will cause
> >similiar problems.
>
> I warmed it up with the cap off to be sure all the air was circulating out
> ... is there something else I can do ?
>
>
> > Also, check belt tension.
>
> I can turn the motor over using the fan ... I think its okay ... :)
>
> >Check the condition of the hoses, especially the lower hose to make sure
> >that it is not collapsing. a collapsing hose is not going to help any.
> > sometimes they come off from the vacuum collapsing them, but sometimes it
> >just restricts flow.
>
> Hmmm...I also doubt this, though the hose is getting old I will check it if
> I get the chance.
>
> Someone (a couple of people actually) have suggested a short in the wiring
> ... any thoughts ???
>
> Bill
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>


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Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 09:20:19 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - overheating???

I was wondering though, how does belt tension cause a graet
>amount of difference,

It does if the belt is slipping and not turning the water pump (or
alternator for that matter) at the speed its supposed to be turning at ...


and how SHOULD the fan operate. Mine runs freely,
>and does not turn the engine over when I spin it.
>
You probably have a fan clutch on yours, this will cause the fan to spin at
a speed slower than the engine at higher revs, and also can be engaged by
either thermal or speed mechanisms. My 390 came with one of these on it,
mine however just has the fan bolted directly to the spacer, so however
fast the engine is turning is how fast the fan is turning (assuming the
belts aren't "gearing" it down)

Hope that helps

wish
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Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:05:28 -0700
From: "Giddens, Scott"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - overheating???

sleddog wrote:

> Consider the possibilty of air bubbles in the system. this will cause
> similiar problems.
*snip*
> Check the condition of the hoses, especially the lower hose to make sure
> that it is not collapsing. a collapsing hose is not going to help any.
> sometimes they come off from the vacuum collapsing them, but sometimes it
>
> just restricts flow.
*snip*

I agree that this is the exact symptoms of air getting into the
cooling system. Vacuum upstream of the pump will collapse the hoses. What
this will do if the leak is in the right spot is only suck in air but not
let water out so it does not look like a normal leak. Air is lighter than
water also and can pass through leaks water will not. The upstream hoses
from the water pump are the ones that sees this negative pressure, collapse,
or suck in air.

I have had bad water pumps do this if they leak through the bearings
or more than likely the gasket material has a suction leak on the upstream
side and the cavitation is forcing air into the system.

I would purge for leaks, remove the cap to see if the air got back
into the cooling system again and repeat it a couple of times. Then I would
remove the thermostat and drop it in boiling water to see if it is sticking.
Of course it is so easy to check the sending unit first and for 5 to 10
bucks it is worth the chance it is bad. The sending unit is almost always
the first to go in these situations because they are fragile and see a lot
of heat and temperature cycling.

Scott
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Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 11:27:42 -0500
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - overheating???

This really isn't related to your overheating problem much. but...

on my puller i use an electric pump.
i found i kept getting air into the system and on a cooling system already
overloaded it really creates a problem. I found i had a pinhole in the
radiater. when the pump was turned on i could hear the pump pumping
bubbles thru the system. even though when the pump was off the hole most
often did not leak. i was able to hear this because the pump can be run
while the engine is off.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Giddens, Scott[SMTP:sgiddens ball.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 11:05 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - overheating???

I agree that this is the exact symptoms of air getting into the
cooling system. Vacuum upstream of the pump will collapse the hoses. What
this will do if the leak is in the right spot is only suck in air but not
let water out so it does not look like a normal leak. Air is lighter than
water also and can pass through leaks water will not. The upstream hoses
from the water pump are the ones that sees this negative pressure,
collapse,
or suck in air.



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Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 12:11:31 -0500
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Heating problem

William Hart writes: >>1) thermostat - replaced w/180 that works, no change
2) water pump - replaced with known good one, no change
3) radiator (old one leaky and smallish) - replaced with new one (over
sized for this motor) no change.

Ever hear of a bad sending unit doing this ?

My bets go to the gauge - not the sending unit.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 11:27:27 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - overheating???

>If you replace the sending unit/gauge, can't it be used on the 390?

Yeah, they're the same from the 360 and 390, so I will still have a good
one, just don't want to if I don't have to sort of thing ...



I don't
>remember when ford went to the idiot light gauge (uses electrical current
>to move the needle) but they do go bad. If yours is a true gauge; when the
>engine's warm and you turn the ignition key off, the needle will stay in
>place and drop as the engine cools.

I assume by this you mean electric gauge, not idiot gauge (mine would
always read full then). I have never actually seen factory "engine turned"
gauges other than the thermometer on the radiator of the old A's. So I
think its safe to say that mine are electric. I guess I don't understand
your references to "true" gauge and "idiot light" gauge ... I've heard the
new oil pressure gauges referred to as idiot gauges because their voltage
drop between 0 and max is less than 1 volt.

>Any chance of a bad head gasket?
>
yeah there's a chance, just think I'd be losin water if it was ...

wish

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Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 11:29:55 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Heating problem

>My bets go to the gauge - not the sending unit.
>
DOH! how would I check the gauge itself ? can I replace the gauge without
replacing the whole cluster ?

Maybe I'll just refit my 96 GT cluster into it ?? :) j/k But seriously
can I test the gauge separately and can I replace just the gauge if it is bad ?


Thanks,
wish
73ish F-1?? 4x4 360-->390
96 Mustang GT

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Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:30:36 -0700
From: "Giddens, Scott"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - overheating???

BTW,

Make sure the coolant reservoir has some coolant in it. Check the hose to
the coolant reservoir for cracks and leaks also.
I sometimes forget to keep it filled properly and a crack in the coolant
reservoir hose will just suck in air when the motor cools off.

The radiator cap can go bad and leak also.

Scott
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Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 12:14:51 -0600
From: "Brian Andrews"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Heating problem

I suggest go out and buy you a $20.00 mechanical gauge and put it in place
of the factory or original and watch it from there. That was you know there
is no electrical problem. I have ALSO SEEN with my own eyes a bad engine
ground cause this exact same problem. Check with a good volt-ohm meter and
check ohms from battery GROUND to the block. Should read less than one ohm.
Check with engine off then with it idling. Then check volts with positive
lead of meter on battery positive and neg. lead on the block. The block
readings should be on clean, metal surface, preferably close to the sending
unit. One of these will pinpoint your problem as to wether it is the gauge
or not.

Brian Andrews
briana webshoppe.net

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Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 11:34:44 -0700
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - 400 shorty headers

>From: "Bill Beyer"
>Subject: FTE Perf - 400 shorty headers
>
>Here's some information I received from Stan at
>Ford Powertrain www.fordpowertrain.com Might
>be good news for us M-block nuts. I had asked
>him whether the headers for the 351C they are
>designing would fit a 400 in 4X4.
>
>>The Cleveland and M series header flange is
>>interchangeable, however the header must be
>>built for the chasis in order to fit. F.P.A. is
>>designing a shorty 3 51 Clev./M header that
>>should fit most trucks due out in April.

Yo Bill:

That's great news. A shorty M-block header, more aftermarket support for
the M-block, yippee!

Right after I read this, I fired off an email to Stan about my fervent
desire for an M-block header that will fit in the later model (1980-up)
truck chassis. Unfortunately, lowering the engine in the chassis was one
of the big design changes between the 77.5-79 series trucks and the later
80-up series. The cylinder heads sit too close to the frame rails in the
later model trucks to use headers designed for 77.5-79 trucks.

I asked Stan if the width (measured straight out from the ex. manifold
mating surface of the head) was any bigger than the stock manifolds. So
far, that width (and cross member interference from long tubes) is the
biggest problem I've encountered w/ the 351C/M-block headers out there now.

May the Ford be w/ us.

Dave R (M-block devotee)


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:30:58 -0500
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Heating problem

I check my temp gauge by using a mercury thermometer. i have a brass
encased one for temps 100 to 500 deg F.

I just stick it into the radiater and when it reaches the temperature i
want to check i read the guage and the thermometer. this of course doesn't
help much for transiant problems that ou describe. But a very cheap
aftermarket mechanical temp guage added onto the truck for awhile wll allow
you to see if they both agree all the time, or if there is a substantial
difference in the readings you see when your overheat conditions occur. the
reaction time of the mech guage may be slower, but it should help. There
whould be a place to connect it without moving the stock electrical sending
unit.

just an idea.

sleddog

- ----------
From: William S Hart[SMTP:wish iastate.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 12:29 PM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Heating problem

DOH! how would I check the gauge itself ? can I replace the gauge without
replacing the whole cluster ?

Maybe I'll just refit my 96 GT cluster into it ?? :) j/k But seriously
can I test the gauge separately and can I replace just the gauge if it is
bad ?

Thanks,
wish





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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:59:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Justin Farcas
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - overheating???

How easy is it to replace a sending unit?
>
>
>
> sleddog wrote:
>
> > Consider the possibilty of air bubbles in the system. this will cause
> > similiar problems.
> *snip*
> > Check the condition of the hoses, especially the lower hose to make sure
> > that it is not collapsing. a collapsing hose is not going to help any.
> > sometimes they come off from the vacuum collapsing them, but sometimes it
> >
> > just restricts flow.
> *snip*
>
> I agree that this is the exact symptoms of air getting into the
> cooling system. Vacuum upstream of the pump will collapse the hoses. What
> this will do if the leak is in the right spot is only suck in air but not
> let water out so it does not look like a normal leak. Air is lighter than
> water also and can pass through leaks water will not. The upstream hoses
> from the water pump are the ones that sees this negative pressure, collapse,
> or suck in air.
>
> I have had bad water pumps do this if they leak through the bearings
> or more than likely the gasket material has a suction leak on the upstream
> side and the cavitation is forcing air into the system.
>
> I would purge for leaks, remove the cap to see if the air got back
> into the cooling system again and repeat it a couple of times. Then I would
> remove the thermostat and drop it in boiling water to see if it is sticking.
> Of course it is so easy to check the sending unit first and for 5 to 10
> bucks it is worth the chance it is bad. The sending unit is almost always
> the first to go in these situations because they are fragile and see a lot
> of heat and temperature cycling.
>
> Scott
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 13:16:58 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - overheating???

At 12:59 PM 2/9/99 , you wrote:
>How easy is it to replace a sending unit?

It screws into the intake manifold, just in front of the carb on the FE's
(well the three manifolds I have anyway) ... not too big a deal, not messy
if you drain the antifreeze down to that level first either.


Just my 2cents

wish

Auto Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/cars.html
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Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:29:16 -0500
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - overheating???

this is a little simplified, but basically:
unhook wire.
screw out sending unit.
screw new one in.
reconnect wire.

i did leave out the idea of draining coolant to the level of the unit first
b/c many times i'll do something like this without draining it, just
letting a small amount leak out while switching parts. i also use teflon
tape on the threads for these things.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Justin Farcas[SMTP:ae571 seorf.ohiou.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 8:59 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - overheating???

How easy is it to replace a sending unit?


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Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 12:27:19 -0700
From: "Giddens, Scott"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - overheating???

There is nothing to it.

You pull the single wire connector off from the little threaded post
sticking out of the top and unscrew it with a 1/2, 5/8, or 3/4 inch wrench.
Check the wire connection to the connector. They often wear and break right
where the rubber meets the wire.

Put a little lube on the threads of the new one and screw it back in. Do not
tighten it too much, just snug it up until it feels like it could not work
it's way loose. Some people put Teflon tape around the threads when they put
it back in which is a good idea if you have any.

You could use the blue silicone RTV but if you do use VERY little of it,
just a tiny smear in the screw threads.

DO NOT COVER THE METAL TIP THAT GOES IN THE TAPPED HOLE WITH TEFLON TAPE OR
RTV.

Snap the connector back on the little threaded post and you are done

Scott

> -----Original Message-----
> From:Justin Farcas [SMTP:ae571 seorf.ohiou.edu]
> Sent:Tuesday, February 09, 1999 11:59 AM
> To:perf-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject:Re: FTE Perf - overheating???
>
> How easy is it to replace a sending unit?
>
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Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:09:17 EST
From: FLR150 AOL.COM
Subject: FTE Perf - Identify this

This is a resend as I had my computer crash and eat all my offline mail
downloads.
Thanks again for any help you can give.
Wayne

Gang,
Here we go again. I have been having trouble identifying the trans. I have in
my truck. The transmission code on the door sticker is "U". The only number
that I have been able to find or see on my trans. is "RF-F4ZP-7006-AA". That
number is located on the drivers side of the tranny just behind the shift
linkage. I also have the stalk mounted OD off switch.
The VIN # is 1FTEX15N1RKA19590 if that helps. I have tried to go up to the
local for dealer and have them run the OASIS on it, but of course, everytime I
go up there the system is supposedly down. You can either post the answer or
contact me off list.
Thanks,
Wayne Foy
'94 Flareside Supercab
"Hazardous Material"
Wayne's Flareside Page
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Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 20:55:52 -0600
From: "Robert F. Davis"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Identify this

At 06:09 PM 02/09/99 EST, you wrote:
I can't believe your dealer doesn't know what kind of trans you have in
your truck.
Your truck should have an "E4OD", which they have been using since about
1989 behind V-8's
(I assume you have a V-8, since you have a SC.)

a:Go to a trans shop and ask them to identify it for you. All they have to
do is look underneath.
b:You look at (the trans oilpan), if it's almost as big as your engine's
oil pan, then it's an E4OD.
They are an exceptionally large trans. much bigger than a C-6.

Hope this helps,
Bob Davis
"Beater"


>This is a resend as I had my computer crash and eat all my offline mail
>downloads.
>Thanks again for any help you can give.
>Wayne
>
>Gang,
>Here we go again. I have been having trouble identifying the trans. I have in
>my truck. The transmission code on the door sticker is "U". The only number
>that I have been able to find or see on my trans. is "RF-F4ZP-7006-AA". That
>number is located on the drivers side of the tranny just behind the shift
>linkage. I also have the stalk mounted OD off switch.
>The VIN # is 1FTEX15N1RKA19590 if that helps. I have tried to go up to the
>local for dealer and have them run the OASIS on it, but of course,
everytime I
>go up there the system is supposedly down. You can either post the answer or
>contact me off list.
>Thanks,
>Wayne Foy
>'94 Flareside Supercab
>"Hazardous Material"
> Wayne's Flareside Page
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>
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:11:51 -0600
From: "Dale and Donna Carmine"
Subject: FTE Perf - 400 Headers

Bill,
Thanks for the good info, hopefully they will fit 2wd also.
The only catalog listing I have been able to find for the 351M/400 in a 2wd
chassis is for the Hooker Competition series. It seems that many offer
headers for the 4wd but they are harder to find for 2wd.
Does anyone know of other headers that will fit the 2wd with 400? Any
comments and/or experiences with the Hooker headers?

I once swore that I would never buy another pair of headers after doing the
semi-annual gasket replacement thing with a cheap pair of appliance
headers.......but I'm reconsidering.

later,
dale c
'79 351M

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Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:31:24 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - 400 Headers

Hedman lists 2 different headers for 2wd with M series: 77-79 (part# 89260)
& 80-82 (part# 89330)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Dale and Donna Carmine
To: perf-list
Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 7:23 PM
Subject: FTE Perf - 400 Headers


>Bill,
>Thanks for the good info, hopefully they will fit 2wd also.
>The only catalog listing I have been able to find for the 351M/400 in a 2wd
>chassis is for the Hooker Competition series. It seems that many offer
>headers for the 4wd but they are harder to find for 2wd.
>Does anyone know of other headers that will fit the 2wd with 400? Any
>comments and/or experiences with the Hooker headers?



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Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:52:44 EST
From: NUTCH11 AOL.COM
Subject: FTE Perf - Re: overheating??

my 2 cents

since youv'e already spent some money on this , you might want to buy a
mechanical gauge.put it place of your electrical one temporarily. see if you
get the same result, at least you'll know that its not the gauge.i only use
mechanical gauges for temp amd oil presure. i feel they are a little more
reliable. than electrical especially in older trucks with older wiring.

nutch
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Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:08:39 -0600
From: "Brian Andrews"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Re: overheating??

Also check for a bad engine ground if the mechanical gauge shows correct
temp. I can't stress this enough. a poor ground will cause rough idle also
because of plugs not firing off properly. but that will be in more severe
cases such as no ground at all. I have seen it.
- -----Original Message-----
From: NUTCH11 AOL.COM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 11:02 PM
Subject: FTE Perf - Re: overheating??


>my 2 cents
>
>since youv'e already spent some money on this , you might want to buy a
>mechanical gauge.put it place of your electrical one temporarily. see if
you
>get the same result, at least you'll know that its not the gauge.i only use
>mechanical gauges for temp amd oil presure. i feel they are a little more
>reliable. than electrical especially in older trucks with older wiring.
>
>nutch
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>

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Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 04:34:11 -0500
From: Bryan G Sheffler
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Identify this

Wayne,
When referring to the Ford number, drop the "RF" off the part....


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