perf-list-digest Monday, February 1 1999 Volume 02 : Number 025



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

FTE Perf - 351's
Re: FTE Perf - 351's
FTE Perf - pistons
FTE Perf - ADMIN: Web site updates
Re: FTE Perf - 351's
FTE Perf - electric fans
FTE Perf - tranny cooler
FTE Perf - tranny cooler
Re: FTE Perf - electric fans

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Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:11:11 EST
From: Genlee97 AOL.COM
Subject: FTE Perf - 351's

You guys have so much Knowledge on all these topics I thought I could trust
with this question. What are all the differences in the 351M,351C and 351W?
And with one would you guys say is the most desirable for a truck? Thanks
alot you guys rule!
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Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:40:42 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - 351's

This subject has been discussed ad nauseum in the 61-79 group. I'd suggest
you check the archives. Then point your browser at:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.wrljet.com/engines/ There's lots of good info on all types of
Ford engines there.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Genlee97 AOL.COM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Sunday, January 31, 1999 9:15 AM
Subject: FTE Perf - 351's


>You guys have so much Knowledge on all these topics I thought I could trust
>with this question. What are all the differences in the 351M,351C and
351W?
>And with one would you guys say is the most desirable for a truck? Thanks
>alot you guys rule!


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Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:55:41 -0600
From: "ben"
Subject: FTE Perf - pistons

How much do you think these bushings would cost? Also, what pistons would
you recommend if I go with the bushings? Looking for idle - 3500 rpm range
power. Thanks for the info on the 4v heads, I was just about to go buy
them!

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Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:36:03 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE Perf - ADMIN: Web site updates

FTE Web site updates:

- - Several new trucks added to the pictorial (over 370 trucks
now featured)

- - Links updated

Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

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Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:02:57 -0500
From: Bryan G Sheffler
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - 351's

On Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:11:11 EST Genlee97 AOL.COM writes:
>You guys have so much Knowledge on all these topics I thought I could
>trust
>with this question. What are all the differences in the 351M,351C and
>351W?
>And with one would you guys say is the most desirable for a truck?
>Thanks
>alot you guys rule!


The major difference between the 351W and 351M/351C/400 is the
cylinder head design. The 351W cylinder head is a Wedge design, meaning
the combustion chamber forms a Wedge when the piston is at TDC. The
Cleveland motors have a canted valve design. The intake and exhaust
valves are at different angles from each other as opposed to the wedge
head that has the valves all inline. The Cleveland heads uses either
2.05 int/1.66 exh valves (2bbl) or 2.19 int/1.71 exh valves (4bbl). The
Cleveland head was designed for one purpose - HORSEPOWER!!!!! The 4bbl
heads have HUGE intake ports. Even the smaller 2bbl head has intake
ports that are as large as you would want for the street!!! The only
down fall is the exhaust port design. Like the Windsor wedge heads, Ford
compromised the exhaust port design to fit the engine in between the high
shock tower Mustangs and other cars of that era. The exhaust port is
severally bent down to tuck the exhaust manifolds closely to the engine.
The exhaust port on a stock Cleveland can only flows about have of what
the intake can flow. Even with this limitation, the Cleveland head will
easily outflow the Windsor head!!!!
The other main difference is with the water circulation through the
block. The Windsor motors circulate the coolant through the intake
manifold/heads then through the block. The Cleveland circulates the
coolant through the block and then the heads/intake manifold. Hence the
Clevelands thermostat housed in the block not the intake manifold like
the Windsor. Core shift is more of a problem with Cleveland blocks than
Windsor blocks. The Cleveland block is larger and heavier than the
Windsor block.
The 351M is really a 400 block that has been de stroked. Ford
stopped producing the 351 after 1974. In 1975, the Windsor engine plant
could not produce enough of the 351 CID engines to meet demands. So Ford
made another 351 CID engine available. Hence the 351 M was hatched. In
my personal opinion, these engines were not one of Fords "better ideas".
As to which engine, Windsor or Cleveland is better for a truck? It
depends on what you already have and what tranny you want to use. Either
the 351 Cleveland or 351 Windsor can be built to do just about what ever
you want it to do. If you want to use an automatic overdrive tranny, the
351 W can easily be mated to an AOD. The 351 C can be mated to E-AOD
that is used in the EFI 460's but that will be expensive! Remember, the
Cleveland and Lima motors share the same tranny bolt patterns at the rear
of the block.
With the onslaught of affordable aftermarket cylinder heads and some
of the factory's latest offerings (the 5.0 Explorer head), the 351 W
would be hard to beat for an "overall GOOD" motor for a truck. Mated up
with a beefed up AOD and you've got a pretty good package, that will not
make you stop at every gas station you pass. Just say NO to the 351 M.

Bryan


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Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 13:09:05 PST
From: "Joe Swinko"
Subject: FTE Perf - electric fans

I have a 66 f-100 with a 1972 351w engine and an fmx auto trans. I have
bought a four core radiator for it for the extra cooling for the
occasional towing. The problem is the engine's mechanical fan. I have a
few questions:

1.Can I bolt the fan to the pulley without the spacer?
2.Should I use electric fans ? I have two FLex-a-lite M110/120 fans.
3.If yes to #2: can I use the nylon bolts through the radiator or should
I fabricate a set of brackets out of metal to mount the fans?

I am aware of the benifits of electric fans, that's why I bougt them.

Please Help!

Joe Swinko

______________________________________________________
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Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 19:30:02 +73900 (EST)
From: Justin Farcas
Subject: FTE Perf - tranny cooler

I've got an external tranny cooler on my 79 F150 4x4. Problem is, my
fluid keeps getting burnt inside the C-6. either it's hooked up wrong,
or faulty. I need someon who knows about this kinda thing to tell me
what should be connected where.

As it is, there are two outlets on the cooler, and the lines lead from
the two outlets to the tranny housing. I don't know if's that correct,
but that's how it's hooked up now.

Should there be any change in this? Or is my cooler faulty?

Thanks for all your help.

And yeah, my 460 is still burning oil, think I'm gonna go to a workshop
and ask if I can use their compression tester...

Seeya 'round,
-Justin Farcas
--
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Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 19:37:12 -0800
From: George
Subject: FTE Perf - tranny cooler

I'd disconnect both lines, position them where they'll both exit into a
gallon container and make sure your fluid is getting to and from the
cooler. If it is, check out the cooler for flow. The primary function of a
trans cooler to provide additional cooling capacity for the fluid. Extra
cooling capacity is normally required for beyond average operating
conditions. Have you changed the trans fluid? Depending on how you use your
truck, the fluid can break down real quick. I run a modified 460 w/C6 and
B&M trans cooler on the street, and change it every 15,000 miles.
Last but not least and maybe first, pull your trans dipstick and smell the
fluid. If it smells burned, use a fresh container of fluid as a comparison,
your trans needs to be torn down and rebuilt. About $700 at a quality shop,
and it'll be good for a long, long time. For another $500 you can add the
wide ratio gears and big servo. I haven't done one but have watched and
would consider a remove/rebuild/replace cheap at that price unless you had
it out for another purpose.

George Miller


I've got an external tranny cooler on my 79 F150 4x4. Problem is, my
fluid keeps getting burnt inside the C-6. either it's hooked up wrong,
or faulty. I need someon who knows about this kinda thing to tell me
what should be connected where.

As it is, there are two outlets on the cooler, and the lines lead from
the two outlets to the tranny housing. I don't know if's that correct,
but that's how it's hooked up now.

Should there be any change in this? Or is my cooler faulty?

Thanks for all your help.

And yeah, my 460 is still burning oil, think I'm gonna go to a workshop
and ask if I can use their compression tester...

Seeya 'round,
-Justin Farcas
--


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 01:20:11 -0500
From: Bryan G Sheffler
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - electric fans

Joe,
Usually the spacer in the fan is necessary to maintain the correct
gap between the radiator and the fan. What kind of problems are you
having with the fan you are using? Are you using a fan shroud. I am
referring to more than just a fan shroud that is merely a top guard for
some one leaning over the radiator. One of the important things about
the proper fan selection is the size. The fan should cover the radiator
from top to bottom. If you are having cooling problems, then a larger
diameter fan may be in order. Aftermarket stainless steel fans of the
18" diameter variety are very good. The factory flex fan is not bad at
all. Make sure that the clutch, if equipped is functioning properly.
Make sure it is a large diameter fan (18"). Electric fans can be good,
but they must cover the height of the radiator. Also, not all electric
fans flow enough air to properly pull enough air through the radiator.
The Flex-a-lite fans may pull enough air through the radiator, but I
believe that Flex-a-lite rated them (M110/M120) for engines that produce
a maximum of 225 HP. They may work. The nylon straps that go through the
radiator work fine and are an easy way to mount the fan. Make sure you
get an adjustable thermostat, not the pre-set kind. At speeds above 35
MPH, you don't need a fan.

Bryan

___________________________________________________________________
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