perf-list-digest Tuesday, January 26 1999 Volume 02 : Number 019



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

FTE Perf - My Take on Helping Out
Re: FTE Perf - Re: 370 engine
FTE Perf - 40/20/40 seats
FTE Perf - Crank Storage
FTE Perf - Re: Political Rant
RE: FTE Perf - Crank Storage
FTE Perf - AODE
RE: FTE Perf - Political Rant!
FTE Perf - fire extinguisher mounting was: Political Rant!
RE: FTE Perf - fire extinguisher mounting was: Political Rant!
FTE Perf - RE: ltrimming posts.
Re: FTE Perf - Political Rant!
FTE Perf - Nodular 9 Inch
FTE Perf - ford power parts?
FTE Perf - How to clean K&N filtercharger
FTE Perf - Nodular 9 Inch
FTE Perf - 460 Probs....
Re: FTE Perf - How to clean K&N filtercharger
Re: FTE Perf - Nodular 9 Inch
RE: FTE Perf - Nodular 9 Inch
RE: FTE Perf - 460 Probs....
RE: FTE Perf - How to clean K&N filtercharger

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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 07:05:57 -0500
From: The Neighbors
Subject: FTE Perf - My Take on Helping Out

I remember some years back I was driving the family Travel-All down a
quiet country road when a short circuit occured, setting the electrical
system on fire. I managed to stop the fire, but not before the engine
bay wiring harness was trashed. A couple af years after that two of my
buddies watched their VW Beetle go up in flames. I was with one of them
one night on an access road when we saw a vehicle erupt into flames
across the interstate from us. While we didn't have a decent sized fire
extinguisher from us, the fire department was half a mile away, and Nick
tromped on it to get there as fast as his Ch*vy could go. I hit the
buzzer at the firehouse door, and we had help on the way fast as we
could.
I carry a toolbox and jumper cables with me everywhere, and not just to
get myself out of a fix when something breaks! While I wasn't able to
help the guy with the fire out as well as I would have liked, I was able
to help a guy who wrecked his truck in the mountains near Charleston,
West Virginia when he laid it on its side around 1:00 in the morning. I
don't pay much attention to the stories about people getting robbed or
attacked while helping a "stranded" motorist. If I can't help somebody
every once in a while, what's the point?
Well, I'd better cut this short, but Darrel, George and anybody else
that wants to add their two bit, I agree with you!
- --
Don Neighbors
'54 F250 Named Grover

"Any dropped tool or part will automatically fall into the most
innaccesible part of the vehicle."

grover ford-trucks.com
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 99 06:16:40 PST
From: "Doug Ridder"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Re: 370 engine

I agree the four bolt caps are not really necessary until you get into =
the 700 - 800 Hp range or the 7 - 8000 rpm range. My motor typically tur=
ns 7800- 8000 rpms as has been known to hit the rev limiter at 8400 on =
occassion. We believe (no dyno results yet) that the motor is making wel=
l over 800 hp. I know alot of people still running the 2 bolt caps in =
similar applications and have not had any problems. Thats why I tried =
the 2 bolt before.

As far as the 4 bolt caps go I can't tell you much yet. They cost 350 =
dollars for the three center caps and bolts for Engine Systems. The bloc=
k also needs quite a bit of machining to install them but since we haven'=
t done that yet I don't know how difficult that is going to be.

The 370 and 429 truck motor cranks are all a "steel" type crank shaft. =
These are the 2 ton and bigger truck motors. They both have the 3.59" =
stroke length and standard rod (2.5") and main (3.0") bearing journals. =
The only modification required to put them in a passenger car block is =
turning down the crank snout. For some reason the snout is larger on the=
"truck" engines and your aftermarket performance parts (like dampner, =
timming gear, and stock timming cover) will not fit. If you are looking =
for a good crank these work very well for anything under a 3.89" stroke =
length. If you can find one they are very inexpensive as well.

Doug

- ----------
>
> I agree with sleddog on the two bolt main 429/460 blocks. Everything =
I've
> read and other followers of that block all say the same thing; it's
> bulletproof up to about 800HP. And so many were produced that the price=
is
> definitely right.
>
> On the steel crank in the 370? 429 engines used in trucks above the P/U
> class were all produced with forged cranks. Problem is, they run so man=
y
> miles the bone yards never see them.
>
> George Miller
>
> i really think you don't need 4-bolt mains. as i have said before the =
2
> bolt block and mains will take more punishment than most people can giv=
e.
> if your rpm limit is under 8000, don't worry. if HP is under 800 or =
so,
> don't worry.
>
> and don't listen to what the builders that want to sell you parts are
> saying - some examples:
> the stock crank is good for only 650 hp and 6500 rpm.
> you need the 4 bolt conversion or block after that limit and a steel =
crank.
> oiling system needs major work for anything over 6500 rpm or so.
>
> these are all bull that they use to up the cost of your build. the oil=
ing
> system is kind of true, but only if you are over about 7000 rpm with =
loose
> tolerances and high oil heat and for a long period of time. trust me =
i
> know, experience here. i have low oil pressure at running oil temps =
since
> all is against me - high rpms, loose tolerances (especially rod side
> clearance) high oil heat due to concreted block....
>
> oh, and i have never seen or heard of a 2 bolt main let go, even after
> broken rods have destroyed almost every other part in the engine...
>
> sleddog
>
>
>
> =3D=3D FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq=
.html


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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:57:17 -0600
From: Steve Randa
Subject: FTE Perf - 40/20/40 seats

Can anyone tell me if the '94-96 40-20-40 seats mounting bracket conforms to the
shape of the floor. The reason I'm asking is I got a set of seats from a company
that claimed they were new take-outs. When I recieved them it was obvious that
the mounting bracket that the cushions bolt to was a frabricated "universal
bracket" (Ticks me off, I hate getting lied to). Orignial mounting studs were cut
off of the center cushion and was redrilled to mate to this bracket. Now that I
have it in, its sits very high and I'm a short guy. A six footer would definately
be rubbing his head on the head liner. Now back to the original question...This
univeral bracket is made of straight stock and since the transmission tunnel is
raised this only allows the seat to go down only so far. I thought that maybe the
bracket on a stock seat would follow the floor more. Unfortunately I have no
truck within a close distance to compare to.

Steve
'84 F150

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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:53:45 -0600
From: Mike Morton
Subject: FTE Perf - Crank Storage

What is the best way to store crankshafts? Just let them set on the end or
would it be better to hang it from a bolt in the front end? What would the
thread be in the end of a crank for a 429 or 460? I've never had any extras
to store before and don't know what is best. I would like to get them off my
basement floor.
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:57:25 EST
From: FLR150 AOL.COM
Subject: FTE Perf - Re: Political Rant

Gang,
I too agree with Darrell's opinion on stopping to help people. But just to be
devil's advocate, a friend and I stopped one night to help what looked to be 2
young ladies with a broken down car. Well, it so happened that these 2 girl's
boyfriends were waiting in the bushes with 9 mm pistols and proceeded to make
us get on the ground and stole my buddy's truck and all of our luggage. We
were on our way to Charleston, SC. To make a long story short, we all need to
stop and help each other, but be cautious and watch your back. Jerks are
everywhere and they could be right behind you before you know it.
Just my .02,
Wayne Foy
'94 Flareside Supercab
Wayne's Flareside Page
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:22:24 -0500
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Crank Storage

on end is the way i always stored mine. if it is hanging and it hangs a
little off to one side it may introduce a bend to the crank over time.
last crank i stored was in the box it shpped in - i left it there for a
few monthes no problem. before that i stored a crank on end in the
basement for a couple years with no problems. i pit it on a flat piece of
plywood, and wrapped it in a thick garbage back. i went and sprayed it
once in a while with wd-40 or CRC to prevent rust.

whenever i see them stored for long periods by the crank grinders they are
on end, or hung on a rack by the flanged end. laing on side is the worst
way unless it is in a block, or in a good formed fit storage/shipping box,
but even then for extended periods on end is best.

i can't remember the thread of the snout off hand, but i think it is a fine
thread, maybe liek 3/4? i just can't remember for sure.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Mike Morton[SMTP:mmorto wgc.woodward.com]
Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 11:53 AM
To: 'perf-list'
Subject: FTE Perf - Crank Storage

What is the best way to store crankshafts? Just let them set on the end or
would it be better to hang it from a bolt in the front end? What would the
thread be in the end of a crank for a 429 or 460? I've never had any extras
to store before and don't know what is best. I would like to get them off
my
basement floor.





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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:41:27 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: FTE Perf - AODE

I know there are several people who have talked about putting AODE's and E4OD
in non computer controlled vehicles, don't know if this was mentioned, but
Baumann engineering has something out, there's a site with a review of this
piece, not sure about price, but thought I'd let you guys know about it ...
sorry if its a repeat post, I didn't follow the thread that closely (funny FE's
don't seem to agree with those trannies)
Here's the site the review is at :
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.alternativeauto.com/waterbox_archives/archive_baumannator.html
If that link doesn't work
try

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sn95.com
it should be on the first page (after the entrance page).


Just my 2cents

Bill

Auto Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/cars.html
'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/Trucks/truck.html
'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/Cars/mustang.html
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:49:04 -0700
From: "Giddens, Scott"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Political Rant!

I think this brings up a good related subject.

Anybody know of a good place to mount a fire extinguisher in an extended cab
'95 F-150?

Scott

> Well folks I have to share something that really burns me up. While
> heading
> back into town in my F-600 I spotted a small truck that had just caught
> fire.
> The owner was desperately throwing his belongings out onto the shoulder as
> on
> lookers stood back and watched. The first thing I did was get my Fire
> Extinguisher out and tried to douse the flames, when that didn't work I
> grabbed my shovel and proceeded to dig one heck of a hole on the side of
> the
> road trying to snuff the fire, or at least keep it contained to the bed of
> the
> truck. The owner and I shoveled dirt for what seemed like an eternity
> until
> the tank blew, and after that all we could do was stand back and watch.
> This
> whole event lasted almost 30 min, and in that time only 2 other folks
> stopped
> to help. One was a corrections officer, who called the FD, and one was a
> gentleman in a 99 Super Duty who unfortunately had a bad extinguisher.
> Now
> just so you know, this was on I-15 so there was plenty of traffic, some
> honking, and I think even one %^ $%& took photos. What is this world
> coming
> to when making good time is more important than helping someone in need?
> More
> truckers (which by law have extinguishers) passed by without even glancing
> in
> our direction. It really makes one think as to what would happen if this
> were
> you. I ALWAYS offer assistance because no vehicle is fool proof, and
> you're
> bound to need help sooner or later. When all was said and done, I wished
> the
> owner my heartfelt apologies, better luck, shook his hand and left. I
> didn't
> care that I have to pay to refill my extinguisher, or that because of this
> I
> was late to my next job. All I wanted to do was help this poor guy save
> some
> of his stuff. I'm sorry to rant like this, but if just one more good
> extinguisher had shown up, he probably could've drivin the truck away.
> But
> now its a total. I hope you all stop and help folks in need, and I know a
> lot
> of you do, Deacon knows this all to well. I wish I could've contributed
> to
> that fund, but money is way tight over here right now. I know you cant
> help
> everybody, but c'mon folks, is 10 min of time really gonna be the end of
> the
> world??????
>
> Sorry to take up your time. See yall out there.
>
> Darrell Duggan
> 74 F-350 "Tweety"
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:03:32 -0500
From: Sleddog
Subject: FTE Perf - fire extinguisher mounting was: Political Rant!

FWIW, i don't know, but i can say that it is very helpful to have it out of
the way, but easily accesible in an emergancy. in my 94 dodge i just lay
it in the back "shelves", and in my pull truck i mounted it right on the
seat mounts, on the left hand side. i can grab it while in the seat, and
also outside the truck (after opening the door of course!) very easily. I
also have it mounted so that while in the seat, the latch comes off and the
extinguisher is in my hand in one motion. upoon bringing it up to my other
hand, the safety pin is facing the right direction and i am ready to go.

i was thinking of tying the safety pin to the bracket (zip tie or such) so
the pin comes off when the extinguisher is removed. haven't done it, but
it is in my head as a possible thing to do.

and please, trim your posts a little. thank you.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Giddens, Scott[SMTP:sgiddens ball.com]
Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 5:49 PM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Political Rant!

I think this brings up a good related subject.

Anybody know of a good place to mount a fire extinguisher in an extended
cab
'95 F-150?

Scott


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:21:38 -0700
From: "Giddens, Scott"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - fire extinguisher mounting was: Political Rant!

> and please, trim your posts a little. thank you.
> sleddog
>
Why? Not that it's an issue, just curious.
Scott

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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:30:28 -0500
From: Sleddog
Subject: FTE Perf - RE: ltrimming posts.

didn't mean to single anyone out. but trimming posts reduces the bandwidth
which not only helps each individual list member, but Ken and FTE also.
Trimmed postings also mean that readers need not wade through material
that is no longer relevant to the thread and makes reading easier.

i am not always trimming posts either, but i try. some people are not
aware of the "netiqutte" of doing so. i still get flamed sometimes for not
doing it as much as i should :(

just thought it would be worth mentioning. thanks.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Giddens, Scott[SMTP:sgiddens ball.com]
Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 6:21 PM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - fire extinguisher mounting was: Political Rant!

> and please, trim your posts a little. thank you.
> sleddog
>
Why? Not that it's an issue, just curious.
Scott






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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:26:58 -0800
From: Chris Bradley
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Political Rant!

How about right between the drivers seat, and the door (mounted on the floor)
That's where mine is on my '85 Bronco, looks good, and is easy to get to.

- --
Chris B
'85 XLT
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=134

"Giddens, Scott" wrote:

> I think this brings up a good related subject.
>
> Anybody know of a good place to mount a fire extinguisher in an extended cab
> '95 F-150?
>
> Scott
>
> > Well folks I have to share something that really burns me up. While
> > heading
> > back into town in my F-600 I spotted a small truck that had just caught
> > fire.
> > The owner was desperately throwing his belongings out onto the shoulder as
> > on
> > lookers stood back and watched. The first thing I did was get my Fire
> > Extinguisher out and tried to douse the flames, when that didn't work I
> > grabbed my shovel and proceeded to dig one heck of a hole on the side of
> > the
> > road trying to snuff the fire, or at least keep it contained to the bed of
> > the
> > truck. The owner and I shoveled dirt for what seemed like an eternity
> > until
> > the tank blew, and after that all we could do was stand back and watch.
> > This
> > whole event lasted almost 30 min, and in that time only 2 other folks
> > stopped
> > to help. One was a corrections officer, who called the FD, and one was a
> > gentleman in a 99 Super Duty who unfortunately had a bad extinguisher.
> > Now
> > just so you know, this was on I-15 so there was plenty of traffic, some
> > honking, and I think even one %^ $%& took photos. What is this world
> > coming
> > to when making good time is more important than helping someone in need?
> > More
> > truckers (which by law have extinguishers) passed by without even glancing
> > in
> > our direction. It really makes one think as to what would happen if this
> > were
> > you. I ALWAYS offer assistance because no vehicle is fool proof, and
> > you're
> > bound to need help sooner or later. When all was said and done, I wished
> > the
> > owner my heartfelt apologies, better luck, shook his hand and left. I
> > didn't
> > care that I have to pay to refill my extinguisher, or that because of this
> > I
> > was late to my next job. All I wanted to do was help this poor guy save
> > some
> > of his stuff. I'm sorry to rant like this, but if just one more good
> > extinguisher had shown up, he probably could've drivin the truck away.
> > But
> > now its a total. I hope you all stop and help folks in need, and I know a
> > lot
> > of you do, Deacon knows this all to well. I wish I could've contributed
> > to
> > that fund, but money is way tight over here right now. I know you cant
> > help
> > everybody, but c'mon folks, is 10 min of time really gonna be the end of
> > the
> > world??????
> >
> > Sorry to take up your time. See yall out there.
> >
> > Darrell Duggan
> > 74 F-350 "Tweety"
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:59:20 EST
From: JUMPINFORD AOL.COM
Subject: FTE Perf - Nodular 9 Inch

Ok folks, Im hearin a lot of stuff on this "nodular" 9 inch rear, and I was
wondering, what exactly is it, why is it better, and where can I get one? My
bro is building up his 84 F-150, and a 9 inch is one of the things we want to
add. Right now were in the middle of a build up on his 300. Sooner or later
were gonna switch over to 4wd, but right now were lookin for the strongest 2x
out there, next to my F-350 that is. =) ( just kiddin Josh). But any info
would be helpful. Also we milled the head .030 to boost the compression, any
ideas as to what it is now? I have no idea what the stock compression was,
but you guys are great at findin this stuff. Thanks

Darrell Duggan
74 F-350 "Tweety"
written for
Josh Duggan aka Spyder
84 F-150 "Zoot"
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:03:37 -0800
From: "Steven Salas"
Subject: FTE Perf - ford power parts?

Hi All! Could someone tell me something about " Ford Power Parts"
? I've heard of their hi-perf stuff for engines but I can't find a source.
Are they directly related to Ford or Ford Motorsport? Thanks in advance!
Steve



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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 99 19:21:05 PST
From: don neomagic.com (Donald Paauw)
Subject: FTE Perf - How to clean K&N filtercharger

I just inherited a K&N filtercharger on an engine I bought and was
wondering what's the best way to clean it.
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:08:42 -0800
From: George
Subject: FTE Perf - Nodular 9 Inch

I believe the 9" was original equipment on F-150s through '86. Nodular
iron, with a grain pattern superior to standard cast iron, was used by Ford
during the late 60s and early 70s. It was directed to Ford's then (the good
old days) extensive involvement in all forms of auto racing. To recapture
some of the production costs, the nodular was part of the tow package
option on the longer wheel base vehicles. The production 9" without the
nodular option will take a lot of HP without failure. Way beyond what I'd
consider streetable and I like excessive HP.. .

George Miller


Ok folks, Im hearin a lot of stuff on this "nodular" 9 inch rear, and I was
wondering, what exactly is it, why is it better, and where can I get one?
My
bro is building up his 84 F-150, and a 9 inch is one of the things we want
to
add. Right now were in the middle of a build up on his 300. Sooner or
later
were gonna switch over to 4wd, but right now were lookin for the strongest
2x
out there, next to my F-350 that is. =) ( just kiddin Josh). But any info
would be helpful. Also we milled the head .030 to boost the compression,
any
ideas as to what it is now? I have no idea what the stock compression was,
but you guys are great at findin this stuff. Thanks



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:04:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Justin Farcas
Subject: FTE Perf - 460 Probs....

Hey everyone, just suscribed to this list with referral from the 61-79
list. They told me that maybe someone here could help me out. So, here
it is:

My truck, a 79 F150 4x4 3spd auto with a 460 bbl, has a few problems ith
the engine. It's rebuilt, with about 5k miles on it. It smells like it
is burning something, kinda like oil. It loses about 1/4 - 1/2 quart of
oil a week. I can't figure out where it's going. I see no major leaks
anywhere, and I checked my plugs. None of them had oil, just a bunch of
carbon buildup, from my fuel mixture being too rich. Could the rich mix
cause an exhaust smell kinda like oil? Or do i have leak somewhere? I'm
getting kinda tired of having to put in oil every week, so I would like
some help with this, and diagnostics or suggestions are all appreciated.

Thanks again,
Justin Farcas
--
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:18:11 -0800
From: Chris Bradley
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - How to clean K&N filtercharger

Go out and buy the K&N cleaning kit. It is under 10 bucks.
- --
Chris B
'85 XLT
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=134


Donald Paauw wrote:

> I just inherited a K&N filtercharger on an engine I bought and was
> wondering what's the best way to clean it.
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:23:14 EST
From: JUMPINFORD AOL.COM
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Nodular 9 Inch

In a message dated 99-01-25 22:42:45 EST, you write:


iron, with a grain pattern superior to standard cast iron, was used by Ford
during the late 60s and early 70s. >>

I'm not sure when it was discontinued, but it didnt go up to 86, as my bros 84
has the 8.8. My next question, would the 9 inch under a 73 half ton be a
nodular? If so I have one under a trailer, also, would this have the 31
spline axles?

Thanks
Darrell Duggan
74 F-350 "Tweety"
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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 01:41:54 -0500
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Nodular 9 Inch

the nodular does have an N in a circle cast into it i believe.

sleddog

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From: JUMPINFORD AOL.COM[SMTP:JUMPINFORD AOL.COM]
Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 11:23 PM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Nodular 9 Inch

In a message dated 99-01-25 22:42:45 EST, you write:


iron, with a grain pattern superior to standard cast iron, was used by Ford
during the late 60s and early 70s. >>

I'm not sure when it was discontinued, but it didnt go up to 86, as my bros 84
has the 8.8. My next question, would the 9 inch under a 73 half ton be a
nodular? If so I have one under a trailer, also, would this have the 31
spline axles?

Thanks
Darrell Duggan
74 F-350 "Tweety"
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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 01:48:10 -0500
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - 460 Probs....

2 places - rings, or valve seals. a compression test can give a clue. if
compression is higher after a small squirt of oil into the cylinders, the
rings are not seated. otherwise the oil is getting past the valve seals
and guides most likely. even if rich, it could be buring oil as it must be
going somewhere. but sometimes a leak is hard to find - but a 1/2 quart a
week shouldn't be hard to spot. it could also be going past the breathers
on the valve covers. check pcv valve or breathers or excessive oiling.

sleddog

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From: Justin Farcas[SMTP:ae571 seorf.ohiou.edu]
Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 6:04 PM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE Perf - 460 Probs....

Hey everyone, just suscribed to this list with referral from the 61-79
list. They told me that maybe someone here could help me out. So, here
it is:

My truck, a 79 F150 4x4 3spd auto with a 460 bbl, has a few problems ith
the engine. It's rebuilt, with about 5k miles on it. It smells like it
is burning something, kinda like oil. It loses about 1/4 - 1/2 quart of
oil a week. I can't figure out where it's going. I see no major leaks
anywhere, and I checked my plugs. None of them had oil, just a bunch of
carbon buildup, from my fuel mixture being too rich. Could the rich mix
cause an exhaust smell kinda like oil? Or do i have leak somewhere? I'm
getting kinda tired of having to put in oil every week, so I would like
some help with this, and diagnostics or suggestions are all appreciated.

Thanks again,
Justin Farcas
--
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