perf-list-digest Thursday, June 3 1999 Volume 02 : Number 134



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

FTE Perf - Re: head weight
FTE Perf - Engine Weights
RE: FTE Perf - Re: head weight
FTE Perf - Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 06:20:47 -0400
FTE Perf - Engine swap
RE: FTE Perf - Engine Weights
FTE Perf - Re: re-429 head weight
RE: FTE Perf - Engine Weights
FTE Perf - '84 AOD
FTE Perf - My lights blink. Why?
RE: FTE Perf - Engine Weights
Re: FTE Perf - Back Pressure
Re: FTE Perf - Engine Weights
Re: FTE Perf - My lights blink. Why?

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Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 06:34:52 -0500
From: jniolon uss.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Re: head weight

I'm sure 429 and 460 heads are comparable in weight... the stripped 460
heads weigh
64 lbs. each.

john


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Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 06:36:45 -0500
From: jniolon uss.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Engine Weights

Does anyone but me remember us talking about putting together a list
of engine component weights and putting it out there for our use ????

I've got most of a 460 weighted and have the figures ready for anyone who
has the space to put them somewhere..

Let me know

John


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Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:09:42 -0500
From: "John MacNamara"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Re: head weight

Thanks allot; I figured 75 lbs. just from the back ache I get lifting them.





John MacNamara
*805 577 2536 Wk
*805 526 3464 Hm
*805 577 2768 Fax
* ESN495-2536

* *jmacnam nortelnetworks.com






- -----Original Message-----
From: jniolon uss.com [mailto:jniolon uss.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 4:35 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Re: head weight




I'm sure 429 and 460 heads are comparable in weight... the stripped 460
heads weigh
64 lbs. each.

john


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Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 08:33:10 -0500
From: Neal Armstrong
Subject: FTE Perf - Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 06:20:47 -0400

Having looked into a similar situation a couple of years ago for my '88
F150, I believe the money and effort you would put into the 300 would
not be worth the result, unless you just want to accept the challenge.
The 300 has lots of HP potential - in its carburated form.
Unfortunately the speed density EFI system seems to be the limiting
factor, again unless you are up to the task of doing your own
engineering. While there are performance pieces available for the 6 (if
you would like the source please email me directly) such as better
heads, pistons, headers, etc., but the dollars just don't add up for a
daily driver. You'll be much happier with a V8 swap; the suggestion of
finding the injection setup from a factory 460 is a reasonable one, if
you can find a wrecking yard willing to part with just those pieces -
most want to sell the whole engine. Depending upon what Florida's
requirements are, you could have a hard time getting the 460 inspected
since it wasn't an option in F150's in '92. In that case you may want
to find an injected 351 to swap in. There are lots of performance parts
available for that engine, as you probably know.

Hope this helps with your decision.

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Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:28:22 -0400
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Engine swap

Bill Hyde writes: >>I'm new to the group here, and hope I'm not off topic.
I have a 92 F150 w/300cid and 4AOD. Bought it new, and have 70k on it.
Only thing not straight from the factory are wheels and bed cover. I
love the big 6, but would like to have some decent hp. Since the 6 is
far from a performance engine, there seems to be no aftermarket hp bolt
ons. I have packed away on a stand a 460 and C6 out of a 74 Cougar.
Has anyone here tried to shoehorn one of these big blocks into an F150?
If so, problems (other than emissions)? If not possible, anyone know of
a S Florida shop that can help my 6? I know there's a world of
difference between hopping up a 6 and putting in a 460, but I already
own the 460.

Since the 460 was offered in 2wd's of that year, there should be all the parts
available either new at your local FOMOCO dealer or at your favorite salvage
yard from a similar vintage truck.
I'm not sure of all the things you need, but I'll try to mentiuon a few that I
would look at 1st.

Engine Motor mounts and stanchions from same vintage.
Oil Pan from truck of same vintage.(maybe)
You may have to lengthen or shorten your drive shaft, which is no big deal for a
competent drive shaft shop.
You may have to move the transmission cross member, and the C6 being from a car
has the long tailshaft, and your truck probably has a short tailshaft,
henceforth the drive shaft modification above.
You may need the truck exhaust manifolds, but I don't know this.
Radiator and fan shroud from a 460 equipped truck of same vintage.

I don't know about the electronics that control your current engine and maybe
other things.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 12:16:06 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Engine Weights

I got space opn my website for that, and sure would like to put it up with
credit to you. i remember a list being made up also. what happened to
that?

Sleddog


Does anyone but me remember us talking about putting together a list
of engine component weights and putting it out there for our use ????

I've got most of a 460 weighted and have the figures ready for anyone who
has the space to put them somewhere..

Let me know

John







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Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 12:27:06 -0600
From: nightcrawler
Subject: FTE Perf - Re: re-429 head weight

> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:16:54 -0500
> From: "John MacNamara"
> Subject: FTE Perf - 429 head weight
>
> Hello everyone:
>
> I have to ship a set of 429 heads to Wisconsin and was wondering if anyone
> had the weight of the head so I can figure shipping costs.
>
> Thanks
>
> John MacNamara
>
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>

the head weight if should be about 85 pounds each if they are the steel ones,
and about 20 less each if there the alum. ones.



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Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 11:37:37 -0700
From: Keith Srb
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Engine Weights

At 12:16 PM 6/2/99 -0400, you wrote:
>I got space opn my website for that, and sure would like to put it up with
>credit to you. i remember a list being made up also. what happened to
>that?
>
>Sleddog

Steve Delanty has it on his web site. The URL is
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/weights/


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Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 13:40:23 -0500
From: Steve Randa
Subject: FTE Perf - '84 AOD

Just wondered what I could do, other than adjusting the TV rod, to get
higher shifts. I'm O.K. with the 1-2 shift but the 3-4 is way to soon.
I'm not sure that a shift kit would solve my problem. I've seen ads for
valve bodies. What do they do and does it to apply to my AOD. Would a
mild torque converter help with this. If I could get a hold of a later
AOD what year is optimum. I've heard the OD bands are larger but don't
know much else. Thanks.

Steve Randa
'84 F150
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Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 12:39:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Oldtrukman webtv.net (R. Pietsch)
Subject: FTE Perf - My lights blink. Why?

Hi all.

I have installed a set of road lights (55 watts each) on my wifes
"94 Explorer. Now when I have them on in conjunction with the hi beams,
the hole system starts to blink off and on. This only happens on hi
beams. The low beams work OK with the road lights on.
I installed them with a relay so there shouldn't be any extra draw
on the headlight switch circuit.
I have used relays and extra lights on all of my Fords for many
years and never had this trouble before. Even with bulbs of up to 250
watts each. (I really like those aircraft landing lights out in the
desert at 2 AM.) this has got me puzzled.
One more thought. I rechecked the wiring on the relay and found that
i had it wired backwards. I had the ground term. hooked to the light
switch and the power term. ran to a ground. Fixing the wiring didn't fix
the problem. Could the relay now be damaged, causing the problem.

Any input will be appreciated. I'm at the end of my wire.



Rix56 'The Rat'

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Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:28:02 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Engine Weights

thanks!

- ----------
From: Keith Srb[SMTP:herbie ford-trucks.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 2:37 PM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Engine Weights

Steve Delanty has it on his web site. The URL is
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/weights/





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Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 23:24:09 -0400
From: Tim Turner
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Back Pressure

Chris Samuel wrote:
>
> From: "Aaron Martin"



> Apologies & Conclusions:
> So, there you have it in just a few words. Ok a Bunch of woyrdz!
> Please forgive me for making a case, but... The design goal for ANY and ALL
> Internal Combustion Piston Engines should be ZERO BACK PRESSURE, if Power
> and Economy are the primary goals; and you can not use the Back Pressure IE:
> Turbocharger, and even then lower is better.

But factoring in emission requirements (ugh) now skews the picture
somewhat. For most (stock or near stock) vehicles a small bit of back
pressure is needed for proper EGR operation. How much you might ask; I
test vehicles routinely for back pressure at the O2 sensor outlet and
anything over 3 PSI 3000 RPM is suspect for undue restriction.

> This is due to Physics and some unbreakable laws there of.
> Not because "I" said so.
> Anyone that believes that Back Pressure IS necessary is welcome to that
> belief but fact is they can-not "prove" it!
> To do so would be breaking several Physical Laws.
> Yet I know people that do honestly believe it.

But.. measuring with an analog gauge 12-24" away from the exhaust
port(s) as I do has no real correlation with the actual absolute
pressure seen at the port(s) during the exhaust event for each
individual cylinder. I use oscilloscope patterns of the engine vacuum
for diagnosis on occasion and I was intrigued by the vast difference
from peak to peak that results in a 'steady' gauge when I was introduced
to this technique. I would assume that there is a similar variation in
the exhaust given that I *do* see a lot of pulsation on my back pressure
gauge at idle. My question is since exhaust manufacturers talk about
'scavenging' and there are definite negative pressure cycles in the
exhaust does it really matter if there is 1 PSI back pressure overall
and the negative pressure events are doing the job at the right time in
the right place(s)?

I'm not trying to poke holes in your statements; just would like to
know.. working on (boring!) stock engines I'm more involved on the
first 3 cycles of the 4 cycle engine than on the exhaust unless it's
restricted.

> Freewill is both a gift, and a curse.

As are most things worthwhile.

>
> Wholly Cow Days More:
>
> -> Second, I was looking at the air intake and it appears as though
> -> a well placed hole behind the grill on the upper right hand side
> -> would help create a ram air effect.
>
> You obviously are thinking of the engine as an air pump:
> More air in = more O2 in = more fuel in = power out!
> True! But more air in generates more exhaust, more exhaust requires a less
> restrictive system. This is generally bigger, though not always. It just
> depends on how bad the factory, or existing system is.

Also the injection/carb must be up to the additional fuel required; some
systems are borderline to begin with. Also make sure that
modifications do not result in the filter being in the path of airflow
from the fan especially if you have a MAF.

>
> Having just reread this I realize that I am tired and spent too much time
> under the weld hood so far this weekend and I'll be there all day today! I
> should probably let this sit a day but what the heck here go'ez...
> Oh well :-)

Let it rip! Most of the ones I've let sit got sent anyway. (Although
there *have* been a few I regretted..)

> Have a good Holiday and remember why we have it!

No problem there.. Arlington is no stranger to me.

The 4th comes soon too! ;-)

Tim
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Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 23:42:01 -0400
From: Tim Turner
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Engine Weights

jniolon uss.com wrote:
>
> Does anyone but me remember us talking about putting together a list
> of engine component weights and putting it out there for our use ????
>
> I've got most of a 460 weighted and have the figures ready for anyone who
> has the space to put them somewhere..
>
> Let me know
>

If no one else responds I could probably sneak it into the shop's web
site without a direct link (FTP file maybe?) Lots of unused space so
far and I'm in charge of it so I could probably link it from one part
and sneak it by the boss. Something like
www.XXXXXauto.com/engweigh.htm/ Hopefully the originator will come
forth though; I'm swamped enough as it is! ;-) If you run out of space
I can certainly place it on our server for a while for safekeeping
though.


Tim Turner/Manic Mechanic
Custer Auto Repair
Wilmington NC
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Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 23:59:39 -0400
From: Tim Turner
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - My lights blink. Why?

"R. Pietsch" wrote:
>
> Hi all.
>
> I have installed a set of road lights (55 watts each) on my wifes
> "94 Explorer. Now when I have them on in conjunction with the hi beams,
> the hole system starts to blink off and on. This only happens on hi
> beams. The low beams work OK with the road lights on.
> I installed them with a relay so there shouldn't be any extra draw
> on the headlight switch circuit.

Well... a tiny bit more draw to energize the relay.; might be enough to
push the circuit breaker in the headlight switch over the edge
especially if it was marginal to begin with. Might not hurt to rewire
the highs through a relay. I'd try a new headlight switch first though.

> I have used relays and extra lights on all of my Fords for many
> years and never had this trouble before. Even with bulbs of up to 250
> watts each. (I really like those aircraft landing lights out in the
> desert at 2 AM.)

Or beach sand! ;-)

> One more thought. I rechecked the wiring on the relay and found that
> i had it wired backwards. I had the ground term. hooked to the light
> switch and the power term. ran to a ground. Fixing the wiring didn't fix
> the problem. Could the relay now be damaged, causing the problem.

*IF* the energizing coil is shorted to the load then yes. I'm getting
too tired to think the whole circuit through, but I'd replace the relay
then the headlight switch and if all else failed wire a new relay into....


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