perf-list-digest Tuesday, May 4 1999 Volume 02 : Number 105



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

FTE Perf - Borla exhaust system reverberating in cabin?
Re: FTE Perf - Borla exhaust system reverberating in cabin?
Re: FTE Perf - Borla exhaust system reverberating in cabin?
Re: FTE Perf - Borla exhaust system reverberating in cabin?
Re: FTE Perf - Sick FE
FTE Perf - The Country Mechanic and the City Mechanic
Re: FTE Perf - The Country Mechanic and the City Mechanic
FTE Perf - ADMIN: Pigeon Forge show
RE: FTE Perf - Borla exhaust system reverberating in cabin?

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 09:09:32 -0700
From: "Andrew Chung"
Subject: FTE Perf - Borla exhaust system reverberating in cabin?

I just had a Borla cat back system installed on my 98 Explorer about a week
ago and the exhaust noise seems to be reverberating in the cabin area.
Outside, the exhaust looks and sounds great, but when I start accelerating,
the noise levels starts moving up quite quickly and at highway speeds, the
noise in the cabin is really loud. I wanted to know if this was normal for
a Borla system, and what I can do to quite things down a little bit. I did
read on a post previously about Dynamat in the trunk area? This is the first
cat-back performance system I've had in a vehicle so this might be normal
and I just don't know it. Anyone have any experience? Any comments will be
appreciated.

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 11:16:45 -0500
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Borla exhaust system reverberating in cabin?

>I just had a Borla cat back system installed on my 98 Explorer about a week
>ago and the exhaust noise seems to be reverberating in the cabin area.
>Outside, the exhaust looks and sounds great, but when I start accelerating,
>the noise levels starts moving up quite quickly and at highway speeds, the
>noise in the cabin is really loud. I wanted to know if this was normal for
>a Borla system, and what I can do to quite things down a little bit. I did
>read on a post previously about Dynamat in the trunk area? This is the first
>cat-back performance system I've had in a vehicle so this might be normal
>and I just don't know it. Anyone have any experience? Any comments will be
>appreciated.
>

There are some systems out there that have a harmonic that will cause this
reverberation, try pulling fewer revs, or more revs and see how things go
... Flowmasters for instance are known for resonating at 2000 rpm's. Not
good when that's the highway speed of your vehicle and you like to stay in
that range. Possibly the Borla suffers from the same thing in your vehicle
? Also with it being an Explorer, you have a wonderful sound chamber in
the back, some additional material back there may help things out ...


Just my 2cents

wish

Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 12:38:06 -0400
From: "James M Philpott"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Borla exhaust system reverberating in cabin?

I've had a complete Borla cat-back system on my '90 SHO for over six years
and have not experienced any cabin reverb. Good sound (outside) and
absolutely no problems with the system to date. Of course, with a DOHC V6
instead of a big V8, mine won't sound as mellow as yours but it sounds
better than any of the other aftermarket SHO systems I've heard. Got a new
Lightning on order, however, so I might be experimenting with a new exhaust
system before long. :)

Mike Philpott
Orlando, FL

- -----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Chung
To: Ford List 97+ ; perf-list ford-trucks.com
; small-list ford-trucks.com

Date: Monday, May 03, 1999 12:18 PM
Subject: FTE Perf - Borla exhaust system reverberating in cabin?


>I just had a Borla cat back system installed on my 98 Explorer about a week
>ago and the exhaust noise seems to be reverberating in the cabin area.


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 16:06:40 -0500
From: Jordan
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Borla exhaust system reverberating in cabin?

At 11:16 AM 5/3/99 -0500, you wrote:
>>I just had a Borla cat back system installed on my 98 Explorer about a week
>>ago and the exhaust noise seems to be reverberating in the cabin area.
>>Outside, the exhaust looks and sounds great, but when I start accelerating,
>>the noise levels starts moving up quite quickly and at highway speeds, the
>>noise in the cabin is really loud. I wanted to know if this was normal for
>>a Borla system, and what I can do to quite things down a little bit. I did
>>read on a post previously about Dynamat in the trunk area? This is the first
>>cat-back performance system I've had in a vehicle so this might be normal
>>and I just don't know it. Anyone have any experience? Any comments will be
>>appreciated.
>>
>
>There are some systems out there that have a harmonic that will cause this
>reverberation, try pulling fewer revs, or more revs and see how things go
>... Flowmasters for instance are known for resonating at 2000 rpm's. Not
>good when that's the highway speed of your vehicle and you like to stay in
>that range. Possibly the Borla suffers from the same thing in your vehicle
>? Also with it being an Explorer, you have a wonderful sound chamber in
>the back, some additional material back there may help things out ...

Ok, well I have a little experience with borla's on an explorer (only mine
is a 4.0) but I did put it on myself, so here goes. They told me that the
design of the muffler (lazy S, but basically straight through, I could
easily see through it before I put it on) it will not muffle anything.
This is often known as bad for a muffler, as they told me that with just
the muffler it would resonate really bad (sounds like your problem). how
they deal with this is by placing 2 venturi's (basically things that create
backpressure on the muffler to cause some of the exhaust to actually enter
the muffling part of the muffler. In a correct installation (as I was told
by borla) there would be one of these right after the muffler, and one
right before the tip. So you might want to check with whoever did the
install on yours and make sure they didn't omit welding the venturi's in.

P.S. I opted not to put the venturi in right after the muffler, and
actually I wouldn't have even put the one in the tip in, but my system had
been used for testing and someone had already welded that one in :(
-Jordan Dean
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 16:37:33 -0500
From: "Robert F. Davis"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Sick FE

At 01:24 AM 05/03/99 -0700, you wrote:
>My 428 runs like the timing is retarded (It's not)or the firing order is
>wrong(It's not).Sounds "flat" no power,sick,like it has the flu.
> AFB has fresh rebuild,has new plugs,cap,wires,rotor,#150 compression on
>all 8,no vacum leaks,dist.does not seem sloppy&has good gear.dist gear
>on cam looks fine,advances as it should and timing does not vary.
> I'm thinking flat cam,bad timing chain,or possibly bad Unilite unit in
>Mallory Dist.From what I understand Unilite either works or not, no 1/2
>way with them.
> If the chain was bad wouldn't the timing be all over the place?Is there
>another way to test chain?Is there any way to test a flat cam,besides a
>dial indicator off the cam lobe?
> Any help would be appreciated.
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
JSH,
Check the timing chain slack. I think you've hit all the other buttons.
Get you a socket that fits the crank/damper bolt, you can use either a
ratchet or breaker bar, (I personally prefer the bar for the extra
leverage), turn the engine crank either direction for maybe 1/4 turn, then
turn it the other direction, you should easily be able to feel the slack in
the chain. If you want to know how many degrees of crank rotation you have
during the slack just put the balancer timing mark under the degree tab. 4
to 7 degrees is about normal for a used chain.
BUT, It's also about replacement time. A couple of hard drag race runs will
put 2-4 degrees on a brand new chain. I have let them run until they had 10
or 15 degrees, But it is risky & you lose performance.
Hope this is enough help.

"Beater" Bob

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 20:20:16 -0500
From: "C. K. Hartline"
Subject: FTE Perf - The Country Mechanic and the City Mechanic

Some of us are not able to work on our own vehicles, I can't do it much
anymore due to a rare muscle disease. And this leaves us facing an arduous
task of finding a good mechanic who is honest and will take care of
the vehicle for us at a reasonable cost.

A year ago I bought a used van from a family friend with a wheelchair lift
in it for my youngest son. The van had dual exhaust and ran out fairly
good, but sounded like it needed a good tune up. I took the van into a shop
specializing in trucks and vans. Told them point blank the vehicle had to
last us for several years and that I wanted a full tune up, transmission
service, new tires, and anything else it needed to pass inspection for the
state of Missouri. I am in St. Louis by the way. My complaint, and now
confirmation is that. The transmission pan was 'NEVER' dropped since now
they perform a system 'purge' through the radiator lines saying there is no
longer a need to change the filter if the fluid is changed regularly.
cost me a transmission as you can imagine> The filter had a return piece
that went up to the pump in the transmission which had broken off and was
laying in the bottom of the pan. Because the mechanic was too lazy to drop
the pan,
service until after I had to have repairs on the transmission> I had to
replace the transmission entirely. I complained for months that the engine
idled like it had a vacumn leak, I was told that I needed a new carb. A
new carb that cost me well over 800 dollars
that!!!>and then the engine ran even worse than ever before. New timing
chain, new heater hoses, new new new new...until the tranny went south and
they said, gee we don't work on those, take it to this place...go to this
place and they want 1100 dollars to rebuild my transmission, which had the
mechanic replaced the screen in the tranny would have saved me the trouble
to start with. I say 'sorry, I just can't afford any more'. I've been
averaging 500 dollars a month on this van since I purchased it in May of
last year. Now I call an old computer customer of mine who owns a salvage
yard and works for a bridge building company. He says, 'darn, if you could
get it to me, I can put a transmission under it for less than 300 dollars.'
I drove it in 2nd gear the three hours to him. Ok, now get this, he puts in
the transmission, puts in a different starter, fixes the idle on the engine
, replaces the missing trim
ring on the right front, fixes the metal mudflap on the back of the van, and
then holds the check until the 1st of the month when I get paid. I watched
as he showed me my engine go from
a piece of rumbling junk to a smooth running v-8 again. Now get this,
before I get home I notice I have no cruise control. When I get home there
is a call on my answering machine, it's him, he's realized he was distracted
by another customer's needs and failed to hook it up, when can I get it back
to him? Take it back, he fixes it, looks at some other things, fine tunes.
I ask him what do I owe you for the other stuff you fixed? Nothing, glad to
fix it for you. I buy him lunch, we come back to the shop, he's still
listening to the engine. Tells me we need to get to some more of those
hoses, but says he would rather let a friend who specializes in vacumn on
these engines take a look at it. And I'm thinking, I did the same thing in
the city and the service doesn't even compare, considering I've had to rent
a car on several occasions and this country mechanic was willing to give me
his car while he fixed the transmission. Can someone tell me is this the
norm, cus if it is, I'm moving. I'm from the country, miss the country, and
when I told him how much I was gonna have to pay to get it fixed, he said
they would linch someone down home for charging a man that much to fix a
common vehicle like that.

I saw for myself today just how bad the vacumn lines were
my hands>, I know first hand that the screen in the transmission wasn't
changed, and I lost a good 4 speed automatic as a result. This place was a
truck and van specialist shop, Who in the world can I trust to take care of
my vehicle?

C.K. in Saint Louis, Missouri
City work - M & S Truck Service, Lindbergh Blvd.
Country Work - Dewayne Witt, Eldon, Missouri

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 19:06:27 -0700
From: George Miller
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - The Country Mechanic and the City Mechanic

I've lived in the country, 25 miles from anywhere with 4' of winter snow
(Ford trucks with the modified 460 and 4x4 allow those pleasures) and
agree with you - personal mechanics are trustworthy. They don't last
long in the country if they don't know what they're doing and
cash/barter is king.

In the city, go to a car club and ask advice. Best for this task is a
club that favors restorods from the '40/50's. Restorodders tend to run
pieces put together with parts from a variety of manufacturers. Many
like their rides for the way they look and, other than basic maintenance
& making it look good, are not mechanically inclined. A best friend with
several nice rides is a restorodder on So Calif. To him, anything beyond
changing oil is a mechanical function best left to the experts. They
know good shops.

George Miller


"C. K. Hartline" wrote:
>
> Some of us are not able to work on our own vehicles, I can't do it much
> anymore due to a rare muscle disease. And this leaves us facing an arduous
> task of finding a good mechanic who is honest and will take care of
> the vehicle for us at a reasonable cost.
>
> A year ago I bought a used van from a family friend with a wheelchair lift
> in it for my youngest son. The van had dual exhaust and ran out fairly
> good, but sounded like it needed a good tune up. I took the van into a shop
> specializing in trucks and vans. Told them point blank the vehicle had to
> last us for several years and that I wanted a full tune up, transmission
> service, new tires, and anything else it needed to pass inspection for the
> state of Missouri. I am in St. Louis by the way. My complaint, and now
> confirmation is that. The transmission pan was 'NEVER' dropped since now
> they perform a system 'purge' through the radiator lines saying there is no
> longer a need to change the filter if the fluid is changed regularly.
> cost me a transmission as you can imagine> The filter had a return piece
> that went up to the pump in the transmission which had broken off and was
> laying in the bottom of the pan. Because the mechanic was too lazy to drop
> the pan,
> service until after I had to have repairs on the transmission> I had to
> replace the transmission entirely. I complained for months that the engine
> idled like it had a vacumn leak, I was told that I needed a new carb. A
> new carb that cost me well over 800 dollars
> that!!!>and then the engine ran even worse than ever before. New timing
> chain, new heater hoses, new new new new...until the tranny went south and
> they said, gee we don't work on those, take it to this place...go to this
> place and they want 1100 dollars to rebuild my transmission, which had the
> mechanic replaced the screen in the tranny would have saved me the trouble
> to start with. I say 'sorry, I just can't afford any more'. I've been
> averaging 500 dollars a month on this van since I purchased it in May of
> last year. Now I call an old computer customer of mine who owns a salvage
> yard and works for a bridge building company. He says, 'darn, if you could
> get it to me, I can put a transmission under it for less than 300 dollars.'
> I drove it in 2nd gear the three hours to him. Ok, now get this, he puts in
> the transmission, puts in a different starter, fixes the idle on the engine
> , replaces the missing trim
> ring on the right front, fixes the metal mudflap on the back of the van, and
> then holds the check until the 1st of the month when I get paid. I watched
> as he showed me my engine go from
> a piece of rumbling junk to a smooth running v-8 again. Now get this,
> before I get home I notice I have no cruise control. When I get home there
> is a call on my answering machine, it's him, he's realized he was distracted
> by another customer's needs and failed to hook it up, when can I get it back
> to him? Take it back, he fixes it, looks at some other things, fine tunes.
> I ask him what do I owe you for the other stuff you fixed? Nothing, glad to
> fix it for you. I buy him lunch, we come back to the shop, he's still
> listening to the engine. Tells me we need to get to some more of those
> hoses, but says he would rather let a friend who specializes in vacumn on
> these engines take a look at it. And I'm thinking, I did the same thing in
> the city and the service doesn't even compare, considering I've had to rent
> a car on several occasions and this country mechanic was willing to give me
> his car while he fixed the transmission. Can someone tell me is this the
> norm, cus if it is, I'm moving. I'm from the country, miss the country, and
> when I told him how much I was gonna have to pay to get it fixed, he said
> they would linch someone down home for charging a man that much to fix a
> common vehicle like that.
>
> I saw for myself today just how bad the vacumn lines were
> my hands>, I know first hand that the screen in the transmission wasn't
> changed, and I lost a good 4 speed automatic as a result. This place was a
> truck and van specialist shop, Who in the world can I trust to take care of
> my vehicle?
>
> C.K. in Saint Louis, Missouri
> City work - M & S Truck Service, Lindbergh Blvd.
> Country Work - Dewayne Witt, Eldon, Missouri
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 23:09:01 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE Perf - ADMIN: Pigeon Forge show

List member Stu Varner has asked that everyone who plans
to attend the Pigeon Forge F100 Supernationals send him
your name and how many people are in your group so he
can get a head count.

He can be reached at varners usit.net

Thanks,
Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 00:38:22 -0700
From: "Andrew Chung"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Borla exhaust system reverberating in cabin?

I have a 4.0L SOHC engine. I also contacted Borla tech support on this and
they did send me one venturie. I guess I'll have to contact the shop that I
got the system installed and have them weld it on. The original install
cost me $240. 3.5 hrs 70/hr. This seems a bit expensive for me, but they
had already done the work and they did tell me it was time and materials.
How long do you think it should take to weld one of these on? I don't want
to spend too much more on this if I don't have to.

I do notice that the system has certain RPM ranges that it reverbs at. It's
pretty loud from 1800-2200 RPM , but at like >2500 RPM it's really quiet.
It can also get REALLY loud when I accelerate at some of the lower RPMs.


- -----Original Message-----
From:owner-perf-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-perf-list ford-trucks.com] On Behalf Of Jordan
Sent:Monday, May 03, 1999 14:07
To:perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject:Re: FTE Perf - Borla exhaust system reverberating in cabin?

At 11:16 AM 5/3/99 -0500, you wrote:
>>I just had a Borla cat back system installed on my 98 Explorer about a
week
>>ago and the exhaust noise seems to be reverberating in the cabin area.
>>Outside, the exhaust looks and sounds great, but when I start
accelerating,
>>the noise levels starts moving up quite quickly and at highway speeds, the
>>noise in the cabin is really loud. I wanted to know if this was normal
for
>>a Borla system, and what I can do to quite things down a little bit. I
did
>>read on a post previously about Dynamat in the trunk area? This is the
first
>>cat-back performance system I've had in a vehicle so this might be normal
>>and I just don't know it. Anyone have any experience? Any comments will
be
>>appreciated.
>>
>
>There are some systems out there that have a harmonic that will cause this
>reverberation, try pulling fewer revs, or more revs and see how things go
>... Flowmasters for instance are known for resonating at 2000 rpm's. Not
>good when that's the highway speed of your vehicle and you like to stay in
>that range. Possibly the Borla suffers from the same thing in your vehicle
>? Also with it being an Explorer, you have a wonderful sound chamber in
>the back, some additional material back there may help things out ...

Ok, well I have a little experience with borla's on an explorer (only mine
is a 4.0) but I did put it on myself, so here goes. They told me that the
design of the muffler (lazy S, but basically straight through, I could
easily see through it before I put it on) it will not muffle anything.
This is often known as bad for a muffler, as they told me that with just
the muffler it would resonate really bad (sounds like your problem). how
they deal with this is by placing 2 venturi's (basically things that create
backpressure on the muffler to cause some of the exhaust to actually enter
the muffling part of the muffler. In a correct installation (as I was told
by borla) there would be one of these right after the muffler, and one
right before the tip. So you might want to check with whoever did the
install on yours and make sure they didn't omit welding the venturi's in.

P.S. I opted not to put the venturi in right after the muffler, and....


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