perf-list-digest Monday, December 7 1998 Volume 01 : Number 164



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

FTE Perf - roller rockers?
FTE Perf - Long rods
Re: FTE Perf - Super Chip
FTE Perf - super chips
FTE Perf - cocked piston
FTE Perf - 460 into 66
FTE Perf - Re: Superchip
RE: FTE Perf - cocked piston

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Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 11:06:48 -0700
From: Neil Johnson
Subject: FTE Perf - roller rockers?

Hey yall,

Perhaps you guys can help me out here. I have a 72 Ford F-100. I'm
rebuilding the 390. I have invested in a Lunati
cam..230/230--duration .050--gross duration 292--gross lift .554--and
lobe sep 109. The intake manifold is an Edlebrock Perfromer RPM, 750
Holley, compression 10.1. He says that I'm sitting 376 horsies.I have
stock heads for now, but I hope to change that in the future. Here is my
question, would roller rockers fit this cam better than the mech. because
of the lift? The shop said that the mech. rockers are still good, but he
suggests that I go with rollers. My budget is pretty tight, if I went with
rollers, it would be around $400 vs. new mech around $240. $400 is alot of
money to dump into stock heads Thanks for your time!

Corbin
72 F-100
390

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Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:42:36 -0800
From: "Chris Samuel"
Subject: FTE Perf - Long rods

The theory on long rods goes like this. At least as I understand it.
The longer rod changes the geometry that is described by the relationship
between the Main journal, the Rod journal, and the Piston pin. The longer
the rod the less acute the angles.
This in and of it self is a good thing as it tends to lessen the thrust
loading on the cylinder wall. However it is not the true reason; the real
reason is that the longer the rod the slower (relatively) the piston passes
through Top Dead Center (TDC). Or to put it another way; the piston dwells
longer at TDC.
The Air Fuel Mixture (AFM) is compressed and then ignited some how. The AFM
then burns quickly. This burning releases the chemical energy of the AFM
creating pressure in the now closed cylinder; this is turned in to
mechanical energy by pushing down on the piston, rod, and thus rotating the
crankshaft. The higher the pressure the more mechanical energy produced.
This is why raising the Compression Ratio (CR) makes more power; it raises
the pressure both before and after ignition.
Increasing the length of the Rod has a similar effect but the mechanism is
different. Instead of simply increasing the pressure; the long rod keeps the
piston higher in the bore for a given number of crankshaft degrees; it
increases the amount of time that the pressure is on the piston.
This creates a similar effect as simply raising the CR; there is more
pressure pushing on the piston for a given number of degrees of crankshaft
revolution.
One of the potential benefits of the long rod approach -Vs- the High
Compression approach is that the octane requirements of the engine "should
not increase" because the maximum pressure did not increase.
In the real world the pressure did increase. Not the Maximum pressure as
with CR increase but the pressure during the first few degrees of crankshaft
rotation as the piston moves down the bore.
If both the Air Fuel Ratio and Ignition lead are not optimized detonation
can occur; until ether a higher octane fuel is used or both of the systems
are optimized. Often (IME) the engine will only respond to the higher octane
fuel AND having the Ignition/Induction systems optimized.
There are some things to keep in mind through all of this.
Not all engines respond to a long rod configuration with measurable power
increases.
Camshafts should be selected with the long rod configuration in mind.
Intake systems will need to be reviewed as the long rod can create a
stronger intake signal allowing the use of bigger Carbs.
Pistons must be designed for the Block, Crank, Rod Length. Stock pistons
will not work.
Some engines are long rod engines such as the 460 and 351M.
Many engines (IME most) will require higher octane fuel due simply to the
increased pressure.
Engines that are required to pull at low engine speeds may not be good
candidates for the long rod configuration as the engine loading causes
exactly the same problems as a high compression ratio. In this situation a
camshaft with a late intake opening event may be a better choice to build a
higher dynamic compression ratio.

As there are a lot of people on these here lists with the most excellent and
prestigious name: Chris
Because I am confused easily! And it confuses me to see this outstanding
name on things I don't remember writing:-)
To ease my confused mind I have decided to use my Chicken Band, Wheeling,
Handle.

Later.
Muel


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Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 18:45:00 -0600
From: William S Hart
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Super Chip

At 11:43 AM 12/5/98 , you wrote:
>Has anyone installed or heard any first hand reports on
>"Super Chips" new chip for the F250 V10? They claim 29 hp
>and 36ft/lbs increase for $495 the down side being high


I've seen specs on the Mustang boards about chips like this, they all seem
to agree that its much better (and you get more power) if you have a chip
custom burned. Most of them have some modifications, so there are certain
things they can do to enhance these mods. Most chip tuners will have some
ideas about timing advance, and mixtures that work well for what you have.
Don't know if any of them do chips, but some offer a return policy, so if
you decide to add a super charger or something, they'll let you send your
chip back and get a new one ... might check mustangworld.com or corral.net
for some of these ...


Just my 2cents

Bill

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Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 19:20:20 -0600
From: "Dale and Donna Carmine"
Subject: FTE Perf - super chips

>Has anyone installed or heard any first hand reports on
>"Super Chips" new chip for the F250 V10? They claim 29 hp
>and 36ft/lbs increase for $495 the down side being high
>octane fuel and " a slight decrease in mpg" at 10.5mpg right
>now on reg. unleaded I'm not sure I can afford the chip but
>if the specs. aren't inflated I'm going to try it.

Last week someone posted a link to Auburn Performance. On their homepage
they are selling an EEC-IV replacement that they claim gives the user full
programmability using any "windows computer". The system is called
"SpeedBrain", sells for $500, and is manufactured by Automotive Computer
Corp. Has anyone ever heard of these people or seen one of these
systems???

If this is for real, I'd sure rather spend $500 for this unit than for a
super chips prom. From the description it sounds like the calibrator that
Mike Wesley had promised for years......but never delivered 'cuz he knew it
would kill his business.

I hope you late model guys will continue the perf discussions about
efi..........helps me to stay up to date. Someday I hope to swap an efi
set-up onto my '79.

later,
dale c

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Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 19:48:46 -0600
From: "Dale and Donna Carmine"
Subject: FTE Perf - cocked piston

Azie said;
>Not in your favor!!! You did say it was running, so there is a slight
>chance, but the chances of reboring being required is much greater in my
>humble opinion.!!!!!!!

Well Azie was right, (why am I not suprised?), the piston had sheared at the
pin boss. The pieces from the lower half of the piston were in the
pan......rod was twisted and had been riding up and down the cylinder
wall....ouch!! The cylinder wall way badly damaged.

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Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 18:52:11 PST
From: "Joe Swinko"
Subject: FTE Perf - 460 into 66

I was wondering if anyone has put a 460 into a 61-66 f-100. I have a 66
and was wondering if it was worth the trouble and money.
Also i was wondering if anyone has used an aftermarket wiring harness to
wire their truck and what benifits they have


Joe Swinko

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Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 22:54:47 EST
From: FLR150 AOL.COM
Subject: FTE Perf - Re: Superchip

I would have to tell you that I bought the chip for my '94 F150 and I have
been completely satisfied with its results. It produced more power than the
company claimed and is completely REPROGRAMMABLE. If you ever have the chance
to do upgrades, pull it out and send it back with a check for $75 and they
will reprogram it to include the upgrades for you and ship it back to you.
That alone would make it a great investment and be worth the extra price.
Wayne Foy
'94 Flareside Supercab
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Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 23:19:09 -0500
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - cocked piston

that sucks...

sleddog

- ----------
From: Dale and Donna Carmine[SMTP:dcarmine inetnebr.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 1998 8:48 PM
To: perf-list
Subject: FTE Perf - cocked piston

Azie said;
>Not in your favor!!! You did say it was running, so there is a slight
>chance, but the chances of reboring being required is much greater in my
>humble opinion.!!!!!!!

Well Azie was right, (why am I not suprised?), the piston had sheared at the
pin boss. The pieces from the lower half of the piston were in the
pan......rod was twisted and had been riding up and down the cylinder
wall....ouch!! The cylinder wall way badly damaged.

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