perf-list-digest Thursday, December 3 1998 Volume 01 : Number 160



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

RE: FTE Perf - Need opinions
RE: FTE Perf - 429 project - nitrous
RE: FTE Perf - My trucks #'s - got some of them
FTE Perf - RE: Need opinions
FTE Perf - PO'ed
Re: FTE Perf - My trucks #'s - got some of them
Re: FTE Perf - PO'ed
RE: FTE Perf - My trucks #'s - got some of them
Re: FTE Perf - PO'ed
RE: FTE Perf - Need opinions
Re: FTE Perf - My trucks #'s - got some of them
FTE Perf - More 429 project...
Re: FTE Perf - PO'ed
Re: FTE Perf - Need opinions
Re: FTE Perf - Need opinions
RE: FTE Perf - More 429 project...

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 06:55:08 -0500
From: "Mr. Paul R. Boudreault"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Need opinions

Hi All

I agree with Sleddog on this. Who knows what else might not be on the
level.

Later,

"Paul"


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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:42:05 -0500
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - 429 project - nitrous

that's funny, it will hope both ways! for anyone who likes fire ball
explosions, nitrous mistakes can make some real pretty boom booms! seen a
truck with a nice fireball go thru the radiater, around the hood edges, and
up past the windsheild. seems that the heads lifted right off the block
was what i was told later. they were still bolted on, but i bet those
bolts were a loss. as was the intake, carb, bottom end,.....

sleddog

- ----------
From: Tim Turner[SMTP:manic1 bellsouth.net]
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 10:32 PM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - 429 project

Sleddog gave ya good advice.. but basically just stick a good cam,
intake and carb on it and let it roar 'til it blows! (And the NOS outta
help in BOTH respects..)

TT





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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:44:17 -0500
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - My trucks #'s - got some of them

i would think that the '3.' is missing and it really is a 3.50.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Tim Turner[SMTP:manic1 bellsouth.net]
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 10:48 PM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - My trucks #'s - got some of them



CCSSportz AOL.COM wrote:
>
> Hey, Here all all the numbers I get today -- Couldn't get any off the bottom
> of the tranny, the T-case, or the front end......
>
> Rearend Tag:
> ?DM-CN 8MB
> 50 9 361A
>

Huh? The '50' on the second line should denote a 5.0:1! (But then my
'85 B-II says 4.5.. havent checked it physically for correctness
though.)


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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:15:34 -0700
From: Drew Beatty
Subject: FTE Perf - RE: Need opinions

I agree with sleddog. You might want to steer clear of this dude. It sounds
like he's pulling your monkey just to see if you'll go higher. It's best
not to deal with people like this.

Good luck,

Drew Beatty
dcbeatty rmi.net

>Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:23:32 -0500
>From: Sleddog
>Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Need opinions

>ya, be pissed. and don't buy the heads. he could be bull$%^&ing you
about the other offer. and even if he ain't, a deal is a deal.

>I wouldn't trust that the parts are any good coming from a guy like that.
never buy parts sight unseen either...

>sleddog

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:41:14 -0500
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE Perf - PO'ed

FLR150 writes: >>Do all of you think I have a right to be pi**ed off here
or am I just throwing a tantrum. Let me know.

Yes I think so, but this is typical of our greedy world we now live in. I
was raised that a mans word was a direct reflection of his character. I'm
62 years old and if I give my word on anything, then it is a contract and I
will follow thru with whatever the agreement was(is) or die trying. My
father would have beat me half to death if I'd done otherwise and he found
out about it. If I priced you something for $5.00 and you agreed to take
it, then $500.00 would not buy it until you had a decent amount of time to
follow thru with the agreement. I might tell you that there was a time
limit established for the followthru, but I would never back out. N E V E
R.

You have to learn to put these things behind you and learn from the
experience. No need to get your blood pressure up over something you have
no control of. (Advise you did not ask for)

Azie
Ardmore, Al.



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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:41:34 EST
From: CCSSportz AOL.COM
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - My trucks #'s - got some of them

In a message dated 12/2/98 9:00:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, kevkem epix.net
writes:



sleddog >>

I went out with some more grease off stuff, a toothbrush, and a
rag............ polished that rearend tag right up....... there is no evidence
of a "3" at all..............Just a 50.......

- -Shawn
79 F-150 4x4, 351M - " 'ZILLA "
Cambridge, NY
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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:10:39 EST
From: CCSSportz AOL.COM
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - PO'ed

In a message dated 12/2/98 10:41:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,
am14 daimlerchrysler.com writes:


62 years old and if I give my word on anything, then it is a contract and I
will follow thru with whatever the agreement was(is) or die trying. My
father would have beat me half to death if I'd done otherwise and he found
out about it. >>

There's not many around like that anymore.......... I don't want to turn this
into a moral thing but it kind of is. I mean I am 16 years old, and there
just aren't "any" of the younger generation who still hold true to this. Could
be because of all the teen fathers out there........
I mean how much can a 14 year old dad offer a child in terms of morals, and
beliefs. My dad had me when he was 27, but my mom was 32 or 33......... My dad
would bend over backwards, and do anythin for anyone as long as you don't
screw him over.......My grandpa', his dad, screwed him (my whole family) over
and now my dad has basically disowned him - I don't blame him, If I were my
dad I would have inflicted some personal injury.....but he's not like that -
it takes ALOT to push him to violence. Anyway I don't know what I'm saying
here..........I bought my old beat up ford for my dad and I to spend some time
on it together......I think my dad is one of a dying (no offense to you
"older" people) breed. and age does not have a whole lot to do with it, but in
some cases it does.....you can be swindled by an 80 year old or a 15 year
old....... You just can't trust too many people anymore..........

Sorry that this post was long, and probably not wanted but I guess I wrote it
and might as well send it that delete it......

- -Shawn
& 'ZILLA
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:10:03 -0600
From: "Mike Morton "
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - My trucks #'s - got some of them

The numbers could be telling you your gears are 5:1. My 55 came stock with a
six cylinder and it takes right at 5 turns of the driveshaft to turn the
tire over once. I know the rear end has never been apart. Jack your back end
just off the ground, put the trans in neutral, and put a mark on the
driveshaft. Now turn your drive wheel one revolution and count how many
times the driveshaft turns. Should get you real close. I don't know the
numbers on the tag as I have never looked. I don't plan on leaving it back
there anyway.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: CCSSportz AOL.COM [SMTP:CCSSportz AOL.COM]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 3:42 PM
> To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE Perf - My trucks #'s - got some of them
>
> In a message dated 12/2/98 9:00:11 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> kevkem epix.net
> writes:
>
>
>
> sleddog >>
>
> I went out with some more grease off stuff, a toothbrush, and a
> rag............ polished that rearend tag right up....... there is no
> evidence
> of a "3" at all..............Just a 50.......
>
> -Shawn
> 79 F-150 4x4, 351M - " 'ZILLA "
> Cambridge, NY
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> ww.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:17:34 EST
From: CCSSportz AOL.COM
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - PO'ed

Check this out - This is another perfect example of what we're talking
about......
I mean it's only 25 bucks, but he's trying to make more off it.......

I have someone interested in it. Unless you can give me more than $25
dollars I will consider it sold. Let me know before the end of the day
perferably. I have someone that wants it Thursday night and I need to
give him notice that someone outbid him. Let me know the highest you
will go. And I will find out the highest he will go.

- -Shawn
& 'ZILLA
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:51:44 -0600
From: "Baldwin, Dave"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Need opinions

So tell us: how much does he want for these used heads?

I saw on a web site recently iron GT40 heads for $150--new. Now, this to me
seems like a bargain, and probably good for 20 to 30 horsepower on a 5.0.
If this guy wanted more than $25 for his questionable heads, I'd say let him
sell them to someone else. By the way, those heads were bare, so you'd have
to buy valve gear--but you'd probably want to select your own for your
application anyway. They had 5.0 blocks for $200 also. Don't know if they
were for roller cams or not. If you're interested, let me know and I'll see
if I can find out where I saw it.

Regards,
Dave Baldwin
Dallas, TX


- -----Original Message-----
From: FLR150 AOL.COM [mailto:FLR150 AOL.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 6:13 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Need opinions


I have a quick question for all of you to reply on. I have recently been in
contact with a gentleman (term used loosely at this point) with whom I have
been setting up terms with to buy a set of used GT40 Iron heads from. At our
last conversation, I told him my address and that I had the check in hand
and
to go ahead and send them. He stated that he would send them out Monday
morning. I received an Email from him last night stating that he had a
better
offer SATURDAY night and wants to start a bidding war on these heads.
Needless
to say I am slightly at the boiling point here and feel rather slighted.
Now where I come from, once the deal has been agreed on a man is not any
better than his word. Do all of you think I have a right to be pi**ed off
here
or am I just throwing a tantrum. Let me know.
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:53:18 EST
From: CCSSportz AOL.COM
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - My trucks #'s - got some of them

In a message dated 12/2/98 5:14:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mmorto wgc.woodward.com writes:


there anyway. >>

Why not? Is it 4x4, or no? I guess you are looking for higher speeds.......I
would like them too, but still with the 5.0:1 gears, I have 36" tires so it
lowers it a little, and i can still get the speeds, and I can go anydamn where
I want to :o)

- -Shawn
& 'ZILLA
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 01:54:53 GMT
From: cdailey hhs.state.ne.us (Chad Dailey)
Subject: FTE Perf - More 429 project...

More below...

>Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:29:28 -0500
>From: Sleddog
>Subject: RE: FTE Perf - 429 project (long)
>
>ok, this explains a few things - had some fun with sb mopars this way...

Phew! I thought I was going crazy! I'm glad someone else has these
insane thoughts....

>anyway, stick with a solid or hyd. cam, roller cams run big $$$ for a BB=
=20
>ford.
>
>the oiling system deal is this IMHO. use a melling, or SVO CJ pump.=20
> radius the oil exit/entry from the filter to block nicely. use half=20
>groove bearings, not full grooves. run good oil. make sure bearing=20
>clearances are perfect.

Radius rehash: are you talking about the center feed to the filter?
Also, why half groove? What am I losing over full groove? Bearing
surface area? Isn't the oil wedge better with full groove? Is it a
pressure issue or a volume issue?

>if you want more help, a very deep sump that keeps the oil away from the=
=20
>crank is the way to go for cheap, since you can weld one up yourself, if=
=20
>you have a welder. otherwise deep pans run about $300 IIRC.

Any easy windage tray stuff? How do I go about a long pickup tube for
the deep sump?

>as for the heads, remove casting flash in intake, remove big hump in=20
>exhaust, smooth out bowl area on both.

Should I try to match the intake to the heads and gasket?

>dpending on pistons you have, about .560 lift cams may be the max you =
can=20
>use. have the heads trimmed a little too, for a bit more compression.=20
> each point of compression is like 4% mnore power (rule of thumb, not=20
>always accurate though) but DON"T mill heads if you like the idea at =
the=20
>end of this email. i'll get to that...

What should I consider an upper limit for duration, given the
relatively low compression of the engine? I know overlap reduces the
dynamic compression in the engine.

..snip..

>get a carb like a 750 holley or carter. buy, and this is the kicker, a=20
>plate NOS system and put it under the carb. something like an =
adjustable=20
>system from 75 hp to 150 hp or something like that.

Mmmmmm... giggle gas! (Maybe an option, haven't ruled it out)

..snip..

>sleddog

Thanks again. This is the kind of information I like! I appreciate
your time. We'll keep you up to date on how it goes.

Chad
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 22:37:30 EST
From: Genlee97 AOL.COM
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - PO'ed

great advice, but this aint no soap opera, its FORD TRUCKS
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 22:38:43 EST
From: Genlee97 AOL.COM
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Need opinions

I would like to know where all of these bargains are
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:54:38 -0700
From: kroger ucla.edu
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Need opinions

Yes, you have a right to be POed and should be, but this happens all the
time and there's nothing you can do about it. Welcome to friendly commerce
on the internet. When people don't have to look you in the eye, better keep
a close eye on your wallet.

Jim



>To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
>Subject: FTE Perf - Need opinions
>
>I have a quick question for all of you to reply on. I have recently been in
>contact with a gentleman (term used loosely at this point) with whom I have
>been setting up terms with to buy a set of used GT40 Iron heads from. At our
>last conversation, I told him my address and that I had the check in hand and
>to go ahead and send them. He stated that he would send them out Monday
>morning. I received an Email from him last night stating that he had a better
>offer SATURDAY night and wants to start a bidding war on these heads. Needless
>to say I am slightly at the boiling point here and feel rather slighted.
>Now where I come from, once the deal has been agreed on a man is not any
>better than his word. Do all of you think I have a right to be pi**ed off here
>or am I just throwing a tantrum. Let me know.
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 00:17:18 -0500
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - More 429 project...

radius the center hole after taking out the filter threaded adapter thingy,
and the side hole - don't accidently gouge the filter seal surface.

you can buy a windage try, but i am not sure i like them. i was offered
one for free and as of yet have not wanted it. one thing i keep thinking
about a windage tray is that a broken part will not fall away from the
crank, to the pan bottom.

the dipstick needs to be modified for a long pan depth, or when going to a
rear sump from a front sump.

match the heads to the intake, NOT the intake gasket. i wrote something in
the archives about this before on the 61-79 list many months ago. if you
can't find it, ask me i'll type it again.

full groove bearings need a higher oil volume, and therefore will generally
runat a lower pressure. they also have less load capacity and are
basically uneeded except in certain very high performance engines. i will
not use them again in mine unless i get an external pump, or a dry sump.

upper limit for duration? as far as mechanical interferance? can't say,
depends on too many things...ultradyne is the only company i know that if
you give them a clearance from closed valve to hitting piston at TDC they
will tell you if a cam will fit. but it still would need to be checked!
if not using stock pistons the exhaust on the 460 is usually the first to
hit, especially when running cam advaned.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Chad Dailey[SMTP:cdailey hhs.state.ne.us]
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 8:54 PM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE Perf - More 429 project...

More below...

>anyway, stick with a solid or hyd. cam, roller cams run big $$$ for a BB
>ford.
>
>the oiling system deal is this IMHO. use a melling, or SVO CJ pump.
> radius the oil exit/entry from the filter to block nicely. use half
>groove bearings, not full grooves. run good oil. make sure bearing
>clearances are perfect.

Radius rehash: are you talking about the center feed to the filter?
Also, why half groove? What am I losing over full groove? Bearing
surface area? Isn't the oil wedge better with full groove? Is it a
pressure issue or a volume issue?

>if you want more help, a very deep sump that keeps the oil away from the
>crank is the way to go for cheap, since you can weld one up yourself, if
>you have a welder. otherwise deep pans run about $300 IIRC.

Any easy windage tray stuff? How do I go about a long pickup tube for
the deep sump?

>as for the heads, remove casting flash in intake, remove big hump in
>exhaust, smooth out bowl area on both.

Should I try to match the intake to the heads and gasket?

>dpending on pistons you have, about .560 lift cams may be the max you can
>use. have the heads trimmed a little too, for a bit more compression.
> each point of compression is like 4% mnore power (rule of thumb, not
>always accurate though) but DON"T mill heads if you like the idea at the
>end of this email. i'll get to that...

What should I consider an upper limit for duration, given the
relatively low compression of the engine? I know overlap reduces the....


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