perf-list-digest Wednesday, December 2 1998 Volume 01 : Number 159



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

FTE Perf - ADMIN: Classics4sale
FTE Perf - Need opinions
Re: FTE Perf - Welcome Back Chris!
FTE Perf - 460 optional
Re: FTE Perf - Need opinions
FTE Perf - 429 project (long)
Re: FTE Perf - 460 optional
Re: FTE Perf - Need opinions
FTE Perf - Re: Welcome Back... Welcome back,Welcome back,Welcome back, to that same ol-place that you...
RE: FTE Perf - Need opinions
RE: FTE Perf - 429 project
RE: FTE Perf - 429 project (long)
FTE Perf - My trucks #'s - got some of them
Re: FTE Perf - Need opinions
Re: FTE Perf - Gearing questions..........Among other things....
Re: FTE Perf - To argue stock or not to argue.....I choose back up the TRUTH!!! :o)
Re: FTE Perf - Need opinions
Re: FTE Perf - 429 project
Re: FTE Perf - My trucks #'s - got some of them
Re: FTE Perf - My trucks #'s - got some of them
Re: FTE Perf - Gearing questions..........Among other things....

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Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 07:02:14 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE Perf - ADMIN: Classics4sale

Dear Ford Truck Enthusiasts list members:

We have a new advertiser on our web site. Since the beginning,
our practice with web site advertisers has been to make a brief
announcement for 2 days (this is day 1 of 2). Please show your
appreciation to Classics4Sale.com for helping to support the web
site and the lists by checking them out:

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.classics4sale.com/

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.classics4sale.com has been online since January 1997.
This site offers the public a listing of classic cars and trucks
for sale/trade in the United States and Canada.

If you use their services or enjoy their site, we would like to
you to let them know you heard about them via Ford Truck Enthusiasts.

Now returning you to our regularly scheduled program...

Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts


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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:12:33 EST
From: FLR150 AOL.COM
Subject: FTE Perf - Need opinions

I have a quick question for all of you to reply on. I have recently been in
contact with a gentleman (term used loosely at this point) with whom I have
been setting up terms with to buy a set of used GT40 Iron heads from. At our
last conversation, I told him my address and that I had the check in hand and
to go ahead and send them. He stated that he would send them out Monday
morning. I received an Email from him last night stating that he had a better
offer SATURDAY night and wants to start a bidding war on these heads. Needless
to say I am slightly at the boiling point here and feel rather slighted.
Now where I come from, once the deal has been agreed on a man is not any
better than his word. Do all of you think I have a right to be pi**ed off here
or am I just throwing a tantrum. Let me know.
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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 09:15:58 -0500
From: "Mr. Paul R. Boudreault"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Welcome Back Chris!

Hi all.

Back in 79 it was my last summer bucking rivets part time as summer help for
Ford in Oakville, Canada, (plant 7 and plant 10), and we did put 460s in the
F series.

Later,

"Paul"


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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 09:26:29 -0500
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE Perf - 460 optional

Sleddog writes: >>my owners manual for my 77 does list the 460 as possible
engines for that year, for what ever it is worth.

The 460 was an option, introduced for the F series in mid year '77 2X4's
only. Could not get it in 4X4 until the '80's. (so I am told by A Ford
Parts Guru that I've dealt with for 30+ years and believe).

Azie
Ardmore, Al.




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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 09:43:20 EST
From: WJeff43 AOL.COM
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Need opinions

We are in a time where people have lost (or had it taken) the ability to
discern right from wrong. They have no moral code to break, it's whatever
advances their cause.
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Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 15:19:21 GMT
From: cdailey hhs.state.ne.us (Chad Dailey)
Subject: FTE Perf - 429 project (long)

More below...

>Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 18:28:39 -0500
>From: Sleddog
>Subject: RE: FTE Perf - 429 project
>
>- ----------
>From: Chad Dailey[SMTP:cdailey hhs.state.ne.us]
>
>>Hi all. I'm contemplating a 429 project for the winter, and I'd like
>>to collect some information first. I'd like to keep costs down, and
>>fun factor up.
>>
>>Baseline requirements:
>>
>>Gas mileage is not important.
>>This engine will be flogged in a heavy vehicle w/auto trans.
>>Must create sphincter-tightening acceleration.
>>Would *like* the engine to last 1000 miles w/o freshening.

A little more background here. A buddy and I are getting a fresh
unassembled complete engine (minus carb), a C6, and a truck full of
302 parts for 400 bucks. This project is for an over-cammed,
fire-breathing, rip-snorting beater. We don't want to put a lot of
dough into it; this is strictly for fun... so if we kick a rod, spin a
bearing, or float a valve, no big deal.

>do you really mean 1000? not like 10,000??

Yes, I really mean 1000. This engine will be ABUSED.

>>1. What torque/hp/rpm limits should I respect as far as the bottom
>>end is concerned (assume OEM style parts)?
>>
>oh, about 6500 rpm, and maybe 650 hp or so.

Cool. That's just about what we were looking for, we were hoping for
5500-6000 rpm, 500-550 hp. More is better!

>>2. In the interest of furthering the limits in #1, are there any
>>relatively simple block/oiling mods that can be done?
>no, not really. this is where the cubic dollars start coming in to =
play.

No oil restricting, windage trays or anything? The stock oiling
system is that good? Any recommendations on an oil pump?

>>3. I'm contemplating a roller cam. Any recommendations for
>>suppliers?
>yes, ultradyne. but they are not small cams - requiring new pistons, =
and=20
>complete valvetrain...

Hmmm. That sounds like more dough than we want to spend. Would we be
better off going with a big solid? I was thinking roller to reduce
frictional losses, and being able to use faster valve rates to
marginally offset a low (9:1) compression ratio.

>>4. I'd like to try my hand at cylinder head porting. Any known
>>how-to's? Any recommendations?
>yes, make freinds with your local head porting specialist!!!

OK, I'll give it a shot, but the boys here are pretty cliquish, you
need to know the secret handshake to get in... Do you know of any
books to start me off, so I can at least ask intelligent questions?

>>Can you gurus can help with answers?
>i haven't been able to get a hold of the dahli lama lately, i think his=20
>cell phone batteries died...

Hah! I got a hold of him, but all he wanted to talk about was some
foolishness about enlightenment and my inner self...

>>Any and all information is greatly appreciated.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Chad
>
>figure out your maximum budget, take 75 percent to 50% of that and call =
it=20
>your new max. now from there you'll know what kind of motor you can =
build.

Well, we really only wanted to sink dough into the valvetrain, fuel
system, and ignition, leaving the bottom end as-is. The engine is new
and unused, otherwise. We figured $1000 for parts, and *hoped* to do
90% of the labor ourselves.

>decide if reliability or power is more important, and where that power =
will=20
>be located in the power band. power costs, and reliability costs. and=20
>having both, cost even more generally. higher rpms cost mucho more than=
=20
>lower rpms, and bigger cubes. so, are big cubes in your budget?

POWER (Ohhh, ohhhh, yeaaaaahhhhh!), probably in the 3000-5500 rpm
range, maybe up to 6000 rpm (or 7000?!?). If I've got to wind it up
to make power, so be it. Like I said, we're only expecting 1000 miles
out of this engine. I figure that to be a couple of trips to the
dragstrip, plus weekend tire-boiling episodes for one summer.
Reliability is not a big deal. If it lasts longer, cool. If it dies
prematurely, que sera. This is mainly going to be a fun learning
experience for me and my buddies on building a thumper engine. Big
cubes are really not in my future at this time, unless I find a cheap
stroker crank that is ready to go.

>you can check out my current build at:
>
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/7273
>
>for some ideas as to the cost of a 750 hp or so BB ford.
>i did mine much cheap by using almost all used parts and got many good=20
>deals on important parts like block, heads, intake, cam.

Dude, you have go-fast goodies that I would only fantasize about. I
must bow and genuflect in the presence of superior horsepower!

>i basically have an over $12,000 motor built for maybe $8,000 (just=20
>guessing here, i have not added it all up yet) including fuel system =
parts,=20
>etc. it should make about 750 hp, and turn to 8,000 rpm's reliably.=20
> reliably, if i can keep my oil pressure up. i didn't do the expensive =
oil=20
>mods needed to really turn these r's. oh, and this engine would be a =
great=20
>street strip engine, if only i had an SVO block. that would sure my=20
>cooling problems most likely.

Whoa. Are we being totally unrealistic? We figured that we were only
going to buy new valvetrain parts, and everything else would be swap
meet or trading fare. Remember, this is purely for satisfaction for
our inner gearhead children, and we are prepared to turn a 429 into a
fragmentation grenade. We didn't get to drive go-karts as little
kids, and it's been like a disease ever since. We need a gearhead
clinic to go get our fix at (kind of like a methadone clinic).

>any more questions, feel free to ask.

I'm sure I'll have more. Thanks for the offer.

Thanks again.

Chad
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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:50:13 EST
From: JUMPINFORD AOL.COM
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - 460 optional

In a message dated 12/1/98 7:27:05 AM MST, am14 daimlerchrysler.com writes:

>

OK guys, I'm getting confused now. My truck is a 74 with the 460. Its
factory original. I know this for fact. Am I to believe I have some ultimo
rare truck that should be put in a garage and locked up? If anyone wants to
check themselves, the VIN for my beast is F35JEU63432. At first I didn't
believe it was an original 460. But when I popped the hood I saw not only
factory mounts, but a lack of headers. At this point I figured, ok it is a
385 series, but I was leaning towards 429 cuz I thought the 460 wasn't
available till mid-77 when the FE was tossed. But after doin the VIN check,
and having to get parts for it, I now know I have one of the first F-series
trucks with the brute we all know as a 460.

Darrell Duggan
74 F-350 "Tweety"
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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:43:41 EST
From: CCSSportz AOL.COM
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Need opinions

In a message dated 12/1/98 7:13:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, FLR150 AOL.COM
writes:


better than his word. Do all of you think I have a right to be pi**ed off
here
or am I just throwing a tantrum. >>

You have every right to be mad. I would be. As you all know of my once in a
lifetime find of my 79 150 4x4.......... 325.00 .............needs work but
everything is in working order.....
Anyway I got that truck because the seller was a man of his word. Here's the
story.
I found the truck online in the AOL classifieds, bla bla bla, he was asking
1000.00 or best offer. I started to ask him alot of questions about the truck
and about it's components. For one I was prepared to pay the 1000 bucks, but I
wanted to know all I could about the truck before I agreed. He was about 5
hours away one way.........So these questionings went along for about 5 or 6
days. During that he thought he had an offer from an e-mail, turned out to be
a joke. Then he told me that someone had offered him 300 sight unseen, just as
a throw out #......... he put this guy off because he knew how bad I wanted
the truck from my talking to him. Anyway he asked me if I could better it by a
few dollars......I said hell yeah, and said 325.00 he said bing bang boom done
deal, sale's closed, it's yours. That was a Monday. I couldn't get down to
pick up the truck and pay him Until Thursday.........On Thursday
morning......He was telling me all of this afterwards when I was at his house.
He had a guy call him from Maryland and offered the 1000.00 he was asking
sight unseen for the parts alone.........this guy was going to turn it into a
chopper truck. Anyway...he told the guy the truck was sold. And that's why
it's in my driveway today.

Sorry, that was a bit long, but I'm bored and you asked.........

Oh, by the way........I did get a little scared when we went to start the
truck --- no start....he said it was sitting since July (this was November),
and that is hadn't been started since it was sitting. So everything was
rushing through my head new motor????...........Ok
First thing he said the batt was dead - no kidding, I brought a good fresh
Interstate Megatron with me. TO REPLACE THE MMMAAAAARRRRRRIIIIIINNNNNNEEEEEEEE
BATTERY HE HAD IN THERE. That got the starter whirring, but no start. He said
that when they tried to jump it, that's what happened. Finally a buddy that
was with me dumped some gas down the carb, pumped the pedal, and VROOM,
started right up, after a few seconds - it was purring like a LION, and the
look on this guys face was enough to make me start to get that knot in my
stomach. I thought he was going to not sell it now that he saw I had gotten it
running, and it cost me nothing. But he didn't because of the steering (I
think)
he told me that he shopped around for new boxed 350-500 he said is what he
got. I knew I Could get one from a friend (used) for 50 bucks so I wasn't
worried. He sold it and I came to find out someone replaced the rag joint (not
him) ......they didn't tighten that little clamp bolt that clamps the column
to the nipple on the steering box. Tightened it, drew the teeth together, and
poof instant steering. So I fixed all the major mechanical problems he was
selling it so cheap for for Zilch, Notta' Nutting............
Now I have to rivet in new floors, and re do the interior......seats and
stuff.

Wow,, I made that longer.
I'm going now..........

- -Shawn
79 F-150 4x4, 351M - " 'ZILLA "
Cambridge, NY
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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:53:19 -0800
From: "Chris Samuel"
Subject: FTE Perf - Re: Welcome Back... Welcome back,Welcome back,Welcome back, to that same ol-place that you...

- ->From: "Dale and Donna Carmine"
SNIP
- ->Have you fired your 400 yet?

WEELLL that's a long story!
I decided to get the body of the Bronco back together, then do the simple
stuff i.e.: engine. Every time I turned around something else came up and
was inevitably on "Backorder"! So my initial time line slipped and
slipped... Then after talking to SWMBO I decided that now was the time to
put a full cage in the truck... and then I needed some new... Backorder!!!
So then I caught an uncharacteristic cold (I rarely get sick) and that lay'd
this poboy out for the count! Then...
You get the idea!
I had constructed a temporary shelter to work on the truck in and all was
right with the world. E'Sept ya had to dump the rain water out every so
often... Built it with a tarp roof... got that cold and didn't... Project is
on hold until spring when I can do some 'new' body and paint work!
OH-Shuckeydarn!
I have had the good fortune to be in contact with my local division of the
SMOG NUTZYZ and have had to re-design the engine yet again. Unfortunately
camshaft timing has been sacrificed to the great "Green Bureaucracy", may
all of the Greeny's and their type rot in hell! Because of this and because
I am running actual Cleveland Heads I have elected to increase the
compression ratio and switch over to a Holley 750 CFM 4BBL Carb. The Heads
are back in the machine shop 8~( Where they will be decked and the valve
springs will be downgraded. If I am not going to be aggressive with the cam
then I don't need to give up any power in the springs!

- ->My latest toy is a '77 sc f-150 with a factory 460. I bought it cheap as
a
- ->parts truck, but now I'm toying with the idea of rebuilding the 460 and
- ->transplanting it, mounts and all into my '79. Only problem is I wouldn't
- ->know what side to take when the 400-vs-460 engine wars flare up again.

Do the 460 and then take the 460 side!~) That's what I'd do!~)
Big, Heavy, Lots of power! You have all of the parts to do the swap
correctly.
This is a no-brainer! Of course I'd also swap the rear axil for a D60 too,
and...
- ->
- ->How did you arrive at the 9:1 CR on your 400? I remember that you
cautioned
- ->against cutting the heads or block on the 335 motors (ala the hot rod
- ->method). Dave recommends using a flat-top 351c piston and bushing the
rods.
- ->Is that what you are doing? I'm still gathering parts, going slow looking
- ->for good deals to avoid spending too many $$$$.
I don't like to cut the "M" heads or block.
Why?
Ford in their infinite wisdom went to Thin Wall castings in search of the
all mighty MPG as we all know in the early 70's.(MPG-Truck,MPG-Pinto, I
don't care about MPG it's a TRUCK!)
I have for no good reason measured the deck thickness on several blocks and
heads. "Core Shift*" we have learned to dread that term especially when
combined with thin wall castings. Not only have I found it in the Cyl Walls
but in the decks. Hence my reluctance to just deck em. The thicker the deck
the better the seal. Detonation and preignition cause high pressure spikes
that can fail the Head Gaskets.
So how to get 9.5:1 CR?
Early Cleveland 2BBL heads have a slightly smaller chamber volume. Use a
+0.030 (Mine are +0.040) 9.0:1 (Nom) Piston. End up with 9.5:1 CR.
OR Use the 351C pistons and bush the rods.
When this project was started a 9.0:1 CR was the maximum that I was
building to. Now were I starting it I would build for 12:1 CR and "Fool
Inject" it; though that would add $5k to the build price!
The switch to the Holley gives me a tune ability that "my favorite" the
Carter's can't. It will be a more complex tuning process to be sure but I
have purchased 2 Cyberdyne O2 Sensor Readouts ( $32ea.) to make the job a
little easier. The basic set up of the Carb will be completed on the dyno
where I can use an 8 channel O2 system.
* Core Shift. A condition where the internal cores or forms that are used to
create the hollow areas in the Engine Block, Cylinder Heads, Intake or
Exhaust manifolds or other casting are misaligned or otherwise incorrectly
located causing variances in the casting wall thickness. Too thick is not
necessarily a bad thing except for weight and passage blockage. Too thin can
cause weak spots when the casting is machined or stressed, or both.
- ->
- ->I'm happy with my flowmaster 3 chamber now. When I first put it on I
- ->thought that it was too loud. Yesterday,I got the tailpipe (turn-out in
- ->front of the rear wheel) on it and that mellowed it out considerably.
- ->
- ->later,
- ->dale c
- ->'79 f150, 351M

I have decided to go with the 3" In-Out; 6" Dia Welded Race Masters by
Dynomax.
They will be loud but I have to run Cat's so we'll see just how loud.

As too back. I have more time then I did still less then I once had we shall
see....
Chris
79 Bronco

PS.
Brett. & 2.3 ranger (kinda long sorry)

I'd say where are the pictures but I owe several to; too many people here!
Sounds like a nice one!
Roll cage question. Custom built or kit?
If kit from who?


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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:23:32 -0500
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Need opinions

ya, be pissed. and don't buy the heads. he could be bull$%^&ing you about the other offer. and even if he ain't, a deal is a deal.

I wouldn't trust that the parts are any good coming from a guy like that. never buy parts sight unseen either...

sleddog

- ----------
From: FLR150 AOL.COM[SMTP:FLR150 AOL.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 7:12 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Need opinions

I have a quick question for all of you to reply on. I have recently been in
contact with a gentleman (term used loosely at this point) with whom I have
been setting up terms with to buy a set of used GT40 Iron heads from. At our
last conversation, I told him my address and that I had the check in hand and
to go ahead and send them. He stated that he would send them out Monday
morning. I received an Email from him last night stating that he had a better
offer SATURDAY night and wants to start a bidding war on these heads. Needless
to say I am slightly at the boiling point here and feel rather slighted.
Now where I come from, once the deal has been agreed on a man is not any
better than his word. Do all of you think I have a right to be pi**ed off here
or am I just throwing a tantrum. Let me know.
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Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:56:14 -0500
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - 429 project

it is not normal, or expected, for any high performance engine to go that
far. most higher lift, like over .560 llift hyd cams are no expected to go
over 25,000 miles according to the cam manufacturers i talked to for my
last street rngine.

roller cams *may* last forever, but not always, and the roller lifters on
big cams will eventually break. running a BB at 8,000 rpm beats the rod
bearings to death unless aluminum rods are used with very light pistons and
pins.

teardowns and rebuilds are all part of the high power engine.

sleddog

- ----------
From: JUMPINFORD AOL.COM[SMTP:JUMPINFORD AOL.COM]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 1998 6:28 PM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - 429 project

In a message dated 11/30/98 3:25:53 PM Pacific Standard Time,
kevkem epix.net
writes:

>

I think these are both wrong, we're talkin Ford here not Bow-tie, or any
other
sort of pickup imitation. I think those #'s should read 200,000+.

Darrell Duggan
74 F-350 "Tweety"
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:29:28 -0500
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - 429 project (long)

ok, this explains a few things - had some fun with sb mopars this way...

anyway, stick with a solid or hyd. cam, roller cams run big $$$ for a BB
ford.

the oiling system deal is this IMHO. use a melling, or SVO CJ pump.
radius the oil exit/entry from the filter to block nicely. use half
groove bearings, not full grooves. run good oil. make sure bearing
clearances are perfect.

if you want more help, a very deep sump that keeps the oil away from the
crank is the way to go for cheap, since you can weld one up yourself, if
you have a welder. otherwise deep pans run about $300 IIRC.

as for the heads, remove casting flash in intake, remove big hump in
exhaust, smooth out bowl area on both.

dpending on pistons you have, about .560 lift cams may be the max you can
use. have the heads trimmed a little too, for a bit more compression.
each point of compression is like 4% mnore power (rule of thumb, not
always accurate though) but DON"T mill heads if you like the idea at the
end of this email. i'll get to that...

you can do it by swap meat and trading parts. but the labor is there
making sure each and every part is good. oh, also a set of CJ rods and ARP
bolts will do wonders for the bottom end. these rods are the rods that
have a cutout for the bolt head that is ellipticle, instaed of square as
the stock rods have. if you only have stock rods, new ARP bolts are still
a good idea! they are pressfit though, don't use a hammer!!

ok, here's an idea. build a solid bottom end - CJ rods
shotpeened/magnafluxed, arp bolts. clevette - michigan 77 bearings half
groove mains.

assemble perfectly. run about 8:1 to 8.5:1 compression. use a good felpro
head gasket. smooth combustion chambers and pistons (polish the chambers).

use a cam like a comp cams 292 or equal. make sure valvetrain geometry is
correct. be sure exhaust port bump is removed and smooth/polish nicely.

get a carb like a 750 holley or carter. buy, and this is the kicker, a
plate NOS system and put it under the carb. something like an adjustable
system from 75 hp to 150 hp or something like that.

start the nitrous out at the low setting and work up. you will need a very
good fuel supply for this though!

this will give you the power you want. but it may cost a bit more than
what you want. if using nitrous though the bottom end must be in good
shape.

i met a truck puller who cheats. he bought junkyard 460's, put good
heads/intake/cam/nitrous/carb on it and ran them till they blew - a couple
of runs. than used another junkyard bottom end. he was in the close to
700 hp range i think.

get some books on the 460, a basic building book and a performance book.
they will help. see the FTE webpage for suggestions.

sleddog

ps-i never played with nitrous - i'm too scared. if you decide a route
like this is good, be carful and also get a book on nitrous. there are
many important things, like timing, and fuel ratio that must be perfect, or
KABOOM!!

- ----------
From: Chad Dailey[SMTP:cdailey hhs.state.ne.us]
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 10:19 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE Perf - 429 project (long)


Yes, I really mean 1000. This engine will be ABUSED.

>>1. What torque/hp/rpm limits should I respect as far as the bottom
>>end is concerned (assume OEM style parts)?
>>
>oh, about 6500 rpm, and maybe 650 hp or so.

Cool. That's just about what we were looking for, we were hoping for
5500-6000 rpm, 500-550 hp. More is better!

>>2. In the interest of furthering the limits in #1, are there any
>>relatively simple block/oiling mods that can be done?
>no, not really. this is where the cubic dollars start coming in to play.

No oil restricting, windage trays or anything? The stock oiling
system is that good? Any recommendations on an oil pump?

>>3. I'm contemplating a roller cam. Any recommendations for
>>suppliers?
>yes, ultradyne. but they are not small cams - requiring new pistons, and
>complete valvetrain...

Hmmm. That sounds like more dough than we want to spend. Would we be
better off going with a big solid? I was thinking roller to reduce
frictional losses, and being able to use faster valve rates to
marginally offset a low (9:1) compression ratio.

>>4. I'd like to try my hand at cylinder head porting. Any known
>>how-to's? Any recommendations?
>yes, make freinds with your local head porting specialist!!!

OK, I'll give it a shot, but the boys here are pretty cliquish, you
need to know the secret handshake to get in... Do you know of any
books to start me off, so I can at least ask intelligent questions?

>>Can you gurus can help with answers?
>i haven't been able to get a hold of the dahli lama lately, i think his
>cell phone batteries died...

Hah! I got a hold of him, but all he wanted to talk about was some
foolishness about enlightenment and my inner self...

>>Any and all information is greatly appreciated.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Chad
>
>figure out your maximum budget, take 75 percent to 50% of that and call it
>your new max. now from there you'll know what kind of motor you can
build.

Well, we really only wanted to sink dough into the valvetrain, fuel
system, and ignition, leaving the bottom end as-is. The engine is new
and unused, otherwise. We figured $1000 for parts, and *hoped* to do
90% of the labor ourselves.

>decide if reliability or power is more important, and where that power
will
>be located in the power band. power costs, and reliability costs. and
>having both, cost even more generally. higher rpms cost mucho more than
>lower rpms, and bigger cubes. so, are big cubes in your budget?

POWER (Ohhh, ohhhh, yeaaaaahhhhh!), probably in the 3000-5500 rpm
range, maybe up to 6000 rpm (or 7000?!?). If I've got to wind it up
to make power, so be it. Like I said, we're only expecting 1000 miles
out of this engine. I figure that to be a couple of trips to the
dragstrip, plus weekend tire-boiling episodes for one summer.
Reliability is not a big deal. If it lasts longer, cool. If it dies
prematurely, que sera. This is mainly going to be a fun learning
experience for me and my buddies on building a thumper engine. Big
cubes are really not in my future at this time, unless I find a cheap
stroker crank that is ready to go.

>you can check out my current build at:
>
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/7273
>
>for some ideas as to the cost of a 750 hp or so BB ford.
>i did mine much cheap by using almost all used parts and got many good
>deals on important parts like block, heads, intake, cam.

Dude, you have go-fast goodies that I would only fantasize about. I
must bow and genuflect in the presence of superior horsepower!

>i basically have an over $12,000 motor built for maybe $8,000 (just
>guessing here, i have not added it all up yet) including fuel system
parts,
>etc. it should make about 750 hp, and turn to 8,000 rpm's reliably.
> reliably, if i can keep my oil pressure up. i didn't do the expensive
oil
>mods needed to really turn these r's. oh, and this engine would be a
great
>street strip engine, if only i had an SVO block. that would sure my
>cooling problems most likely.

Whoa. Are we being totally unrealistic? We figured that we were only
going to buy new valvetrain parts, and everything else would be swap
meet or trading fare. Remember, this is purely for satisfaction for
our inner gearhead children, and we are prepared to turn a 429 into a
fragmentation grenade. We didn't get to drive go-karts as little
kids, and it's been like a disease ever since. We need a gearhead
clinic to go get our fix at (kind of like a methadone clinic).

>any more questions, feel free to ask.

I'm sure I'll have more. Thanks for the offer.

Thanks again.

Chad




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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:44:46 EST
From: CCSSportz AOL.COM
Subject: FTE Perf - My trucks #'s - got some of them

Hey, Here all all the numbers I get today -- Couldn't get any off the bottom
of the tranny, the T-case, or the front end......


Rearend Tag:
?DM-CN 8MB
50 9 361A

Rearend:
D2SWC
and
3218

Tranny.....on top of the tranny (as accessed from Cab) I couldn't get under it
- ---
it has two symbols:

One is a gearlike looking thing that has a combined N and P together like NP
but one...
So I'm guessing it is a New Process. And then below that there is a circle
with lines going inward converging around the number 69.

Then, up in front of the trans (looking towards the engine from Cab
access......) There were a bunch of numbers upside down --- Is this the
bellhousing?? Thos numbers were:

07TA75? (could be 0, 9, 8) then: 5AD
N1 Ford D (then a knob like thing o that sticks out) N

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please identify these #'s and save my life........ :o)


- -Shawn
79 F-150 4x4, 351M -- " 'ZILLA "
Cambridge, NY

Also - there are no VIN numbers on the dash.............
But on the cab. there is a sticker that is by the door contact thing......

Date: 12-78 GVWR: 6300LB
Front GAWR: 2990LB Rear GAWR: 3580LB
Tires: L78-15B Tires: L78-15B
Rims: 15x5.5K Rims: 15x5.5K

VIN: F14BEEC0499 ---- I'm confused at this, Says my orig eng. is a 300/6. I
want to check my title, because those numbers arent familliar either. I think
something is wrong.

Also in the corner is another number:
F0152
T0901
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 18:20:15 EST
From: Genlee97 AOL.COM
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Need opinions

In a message dated 12/1/98 4:13:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, FLR150 AOL.COM
writes:


>>
Hell yeah I would be pi**ed off. They were probably cracked anyway! If you
have a local dragstrip, usually you can find some good heads cheap
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 21:57:49 -0500
From: Tim Turner
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Gearing questions..........Among other things....

CCSSportz AOL.COM wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/29/98 8:22:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, kevkem epix.net
> writes:
>
>
> something like 3.5front, and 3.55 rear or something like that. anyway...
> >>
>
> Are these good gears to have? What's the worst, what's the best?

That depends on what you want to optimize your truck for! If you want
to 'rock-climb' and dont care about gas mileage or engine speed on the
highway maybe 4.5 or 5:1, if your fun consists more of smow/mud/sand
then the 3.5's ought to be OK for a V-8 and stil have a reasonable
economy. I'd suggest getting it all running and take some 4x4 AND
highway trips before you think about gearing changes. If you want more
pulling power you'll need to go to a higher numbered ratio (perversely
called 'lower' gears! such as a 4.10), if you want more top end
speed/less RPM cruising then you'll need to go lower numerically (higher
like a 3.0)


> I was reading a magazine and it was
> talking about Detroit lockers......
> What are they? What do they do? About how much do they cost? And can I put one
> in myself? Like I said, other than knowing it is a rearend component, I don't
> know much.

In a 'normal' differential if one wheel loses traction it gets all the
power and spins madly at twice the normal speed, a 'limited slip' diff
tries to overcome this somewhat but still allow the wheels to turn at
different rates (as they must in a turn due to differing arcs); a
'locker' effectively creates a solid axle with no differential action.
The benefit is maximum available traction off-road as one wheel slipping
does NOT prevent the other wheel on the axle from pulling. Of course
you dont want it locked on hard surfaces! :-) You might also want to
look into 'air lockers'; applied via air pressure, I believe they're
cheaper than the Detroits. (Route the air lines carefully though!)
Differential work is touchy, but as long as you take your time and
double-check all your measurements etc. there's no reason you shouldnt
be able to handle installing lockers and/or different gears.

>
> Which leads me to beg you guys to help me find a set
> of 16.5" rims to put these tires on.


You might try a junkyard.. failing that try a friendly tire dealer in
your area to see if he can get some inexpensive custom steel wheels in
the right size/pattern; shouldnt be much over $2-300 for all 4. (I
know.. that's a lot of cash for a 16 year old (or me at 37!), but then 2
36's will run that much too.)

> you guys on this list have saved me
> from a complete nervous breakdown, and a coronary at 16 years old.
>

You've still got plenty of good years left yet Shawn! :-) (You ought to
try working on 'em every day.. I wonder why I'm going grey. )


Tim Turner/Manic Mechanic
Custer Auto Repair
Wilmington NC
manic1 bellsouth.net
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 22:12:10 -0500
From: Tim Turner
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - To argue stock or not to argue.....I choose back up the TRUTH!!! :o)

CCSSportz AOL.COM wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/30/98 5:58:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, kevkem epix.net
> writes:
>
>
> year, for what ever it is worth. >>
>
> Sleddog is absolutely right - it was an option in my '79 definately - I've
> heard that rrom SEVERAL mechanics, a couple of diehard ford guys, not to
> mention it is listed in my Chilton's manual .......... :o)
>


Probably a special order only option (Maybe for Fire/ambulance
conversions?)

TT
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 22:22:49 -0500
From: Tim Turner
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Need opinions

FLR150 AOL.COM wrote:
>
> I received an Email from him last night stating that he had a better
> offer SATURDAY night and wants to start a bidding war on these heads. Needless
> to say I am slightly at the boiling point here and feel rather slighted.
> Now where I come from, once the deal has been agreed on a man is not any
> better than his word. Do all of you think I have a right to be pi**ed off here
> or am I just throwing a tantrum. Let me know.

Be rightfully and truly mad. Shawn's example of his $325 truck says it
all. It'd be one thing if the 'gentleman' said "hey Joe offered me $50
more, you think you could up it $25.. if not, well the deal was made and
I'll stick to it" but umm.. the scenario you describe doesnt sound like
that! Check out 'Racer Walsh'; he seems to have decent prices on those
heads. ;-)

Tim Turner/Manic Mechanic
Custer Auto Repair
Wilmington NC
manic1 bellsouth.net
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 22:32:10 -0500
From: Tim Turner
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - 429 project

Chad Dailey wrote:
>
> Hi all. I'm contemplating a 429 project for the winter, and I'd like
> to collect some information first. I'd like to keep costs down, and
> fun factor up.
>

Sleddog gave ya good advice.. but basically just stick a good cam,
intake and carb on it and let it roar 'til it blows! (And the NOS outta
help in BOTH respects..)

TT
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 22:48:02 -0500
From: Tim Turner
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - My trucks #'s - got some of them

CCSSportz AOL.COM wrote:
>
> Hey, Here all all the numbers I get today -- Couldn't get any off the bottom
> of the tranny, the T-case, or the front end......
>
> Rearend Tag:
> ?DM-CN 8MB
> 50 9 361A
>

Huh? The '50' on the second line should denote a 5.0:1! (But then my
'85 B-II says 4.5.. havent checked it physically for correctness
though.)

>
> VIN: F14BEEC0499 ---- I'm confused at this, Says my orig eng. is a 300/6. I
> want to check my title, because those numbers arent familliar either. I think
> something is wrong.

*HOPE*fully somebody replaced the cab at some point. Check your title
etc! It's certainly possible that you might originally have been a 6
and there's been an engine swap in the past though.



TT
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 23:34:44 EST
From: CCSSportz AOL.COM
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - My trucks #'s - got some of them

In a message dated 12/1/98 10:47:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
manic1 bellsouth.net writes:


Huh? The '50' on the second line should denote a 5.0:1! (But then my
'85 B-II says 4.5.. havent checked it physically for correctness
though.)
>>

Is that good?? I know how to check it - I need to buy some jackstands......and
get some chalk.



etc! It's certainly possible that you might originally have been a 6....


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