>From herbie ford-trucks.com Mon Oct 12 06:16:51 1998
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 06:16:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: owner-perf-list-digest ford-trucks.com (perf-list-digest)
To: perf-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Subject: perf-list-digest V1 #116
Reply-To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Sender: owner-perf-list-digest ford-trucks.com


perf-list-digest Monday, October 12 1998 Volume 01 : Number 116



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

FTE Perf - Cooling thread again - still
FTE Perf - Cooling thread closure

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Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 16:40:02 -0700
From: "Jim Cron"
Subject: FTE Perf - Cooling thread again - still

Just two more things on this already thoroughly flogged thread.

Remember the water pump is not positive displacement like the oil pump, it
flows according to the lack of resistance to flow. When the thermostat is
closed, bypass does not have to handle same flow as with open thermostat as
pump will be happy to flow less water. In fact pump would not be much
bothered if there were no bypass and no water flowed, the pump impeller
would just whirl around in the same water with no flow. Engine would care,
water would get really hot, so some bypass is needed to allow all the water
to be heated and properly cool the engine during warmup. But that flow can
be much less than full cooling flow. As thermostat opens, it will
eventually find a partial opening that flows the amount of water that
removes heat at the rate it is produced to maintain a stable engine
operating temperature. Water pump doesn't care, pushes more water with more
thermostat opening, less with less. If you remove the thermostat, pump will
push lots more water, now regulated by radiator flow resistance probably.
Water goes through the engine faster than design (cavitation possible) and
through the radiator faster also (too fast to lose the heat??). Centrifigal
pumps (as automotive water pumps are) each have a formula that relates
input - output pressure difference to flow, and this has to do with how
closely the impeller fits in the housing, how the fins are angled, and such.
This relationship is usually graphed and is available for any commercial
pump you would buy but I have never seen one for an automotive water pump.
You can bet the engine designers have them, and spend long hours studying
them.

Second item. Ran across this and thought it was appropriate:

Where there is much desire to learn,
there of necessity will be much arguing,
much writing, many opinions:
for opinion in good men is but knowledge in the making.
John Milton 1608 - 1674

Jim
somewhere near Seattle




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Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:12:10 -0500
From: lordjanusz juno.com (Paul M Radecki)
Subject: FTE Perf - Cooling thread closure

In lieu of continuing the cooling thread, please allow me to
comment. Clearly there are many on the list who have a great deal of
real world, hammer and wrench experience working on trucks. I admit that
I am not one of these. That said, I hope that others who might not have
"all the answers" will continue to post what they know or think that they
know without fear of being "100% wrong". All ideas are welcome as far as
I'm concerned, even incorrect ones, because they stimulate discussion and
bring out other ideas. Sleddog posted:
> i have an open mind and
>will listen to anyone. if they make me change my mind i think that is
>good.
and I couldn't agree more.
My background is in Physics. I hope to continue posting ideas based on
theoretical modeling, although I am all too aware that fundamental theory
does not always hold up in complex reality. It is easy to overlook
important factors, and for this I rely on those who have "been there,
done that". I value their experiences very much, and their patience.
I'm sure it's frustrating to have your hard-earned knowledge called into
question. It is equally frustrating to learn that things do not work
like I've been taught to expect them to.
While I would love to discuss the differences between
thermodynamic pressure and hydraulic/mechanical pressure or dissect the
equations relevant to fluid flow or heat transfer, I am content to let
this thread die (and to leave my thermostat where Ford put it, thank you
very much!). I would also like to apologize to any who might be offended
by my questioning, and thank once again those who take the time to teach
the rest of us. If there weren't so many children lurking on the lists
I'd offer to buy you all an "adult beverage". Cheers!

lordjanusz juno.com
'94 F150 (I-6)
'73 F100 (FE)

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End of perf-list-digest V1 #116
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