>From herbie ford-trucks.com Tue Oct 6 06:13:17 1998
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 06:13:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: owner-perf-list-digest ford-trucks.com (perf-list-digest)
To: perf-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Subject: perf-list-digest V1 #110
Reply-To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Sender: owner-perf-list-digest ford-trucks.com


perf-list-digest Tuesday, October 6 1998 Volume 01 : Number 110



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

FTE Perf - Ford Shop Manuals for 1979 LT Trucks
Re: FTE Perf - HELP!!!!!
Re: FTE Perf - HELP!!!!!
Re: FTE Perf - Re: Long cooling ramble
RE: FTE Perf - Re: Long cooling ramble
FTE Perf - ADMIN: My health and thanks
FTE Perf - ADMIN: Web site updates

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Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:31:02 -0400
From: "Mr. Paul R. Boudreault"
Subject: FTE Perf - Ford Shop Manuals for 1979 LT Trucks

Hi Guys

I am looking for my copy of the 1979 Ford shop manuals for light trucks.
(Rebuilding 79 Ford Bronco.) I want a complete set and do not mind if they
are reprints of the originals. Ford doesn't have them any more and "Helms"
only carries one of the publications, (the service manual).

Any Information would be appreciated!


Thanks

Mr. Paul R. Boudreault
Retired RCAF/CAF

79 Ford Bronco, 351M, 4 BB, 4 speed manual, Rebuilding body and suspension.

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Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:37:17 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - HELP!!!!!

>From: "David M. Ackerschott"
>Subject: FTE Perf - HELP!!!!!
>
>I hope there is someone out there that can help me
>with my problem, I am have a motor and tranny that
>I was told was a 351 Cleveland and a C-6 tranny,
>But now i was told it's not.
>the only numbers i can find on the motor is:
>D1AE-9425 DA
>and the trany: D2AP70062B
>do these numbers tell me what i have?????

Yo David:

I think the number you cited is from a cylinder head (9425). If so, it
could be either a 400 or a 351C 2V cylinder head. Since the 400 and 351C
2V used the same cylinder head castings, the cylinder head is not
sufficient to identify the engine.

To confirm the engine, you need to look at the block casting numbers. All
335 series (351C/351M/400) block casting numbers are located under the last
two cylinders on the right side of the block (right next to where the
starter would mount). If the block casting number starts w/ D0 or D2, you
have a 351C block. If the block casting number starts w/ D1, D3, D4, D5,
D7, or D8, you have an M-block (351M or 400).

Casting numbers for 351C blocks are: D0AZ-D, D0AE-J/G, D2AE-CA

Casting numbers for M-blocks (351M/400) are: D1AE-A/AC/A2C, D3AE-B,
D4AE-B2A, D5AZ, D7TE-A2B, D8

Sorry I can't help you w/ the transmission ID.

Good luck.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 11:39:29 -0700
From: Vogt Family
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - HELP!!!!!

On Sun, 04 Oct 1998, wrote:
>
> I hope there is someone out there that can help me with my problem,
> I am have a motor and tranny that I was told was a 351 Cleveland
> and a C-6 tranny, But now i was told it's not.
> the only numbers i can find on the motor is:
> D1AE-9425 DA
> and the trany: D2AP70062B
> do these numbers tell me what i have?????
> A mechanic thinks is a 351M and a FXM tranny

You can tell if it's a C6 by looking at the oil pan, if it's square with
one corner missing. My C6 also has a very large S-95 cast into the top
front of the bell housing with the letters maybe 2-3" tall, but I can't
tell you if this is a sure inditcation. The pan is.

I go back to school tomorrow and I will dig out some old manuals and see
if I can get you some ID info for the C4 and FMX.

BTW my C6 also has a C6xx cast into the oil pump but I'm not sure this
indicates anything other than the oil pump was cast in '66.

Birken
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:08:35 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Re: Long cooling ramble

Date sent: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 23:30:02 -0700
From: Vogt Family
Subject: FTE Perf - Re: Long cooling ramble

> I also take issue with your assertion that cold water accepts heat
> slower than hot water. Temperature differential affects heat transfer
> rate and the greater the differential the higher the rate.

This is exactly what I said. I hope you're not confusing my stuff with
someone elses?? I don't agree that cold water accepts heat at a slower rate,
the rate is precisely governed by the materials in the water (impurities) and
the temp difference between it and the hot surface and additionally the ability
of the metal to conduct heat from within itself. Total heat transfer is not
"instantaneous", the rate of transfer is calsulated on an instantaneous transfer
though or as scientists call it "absolute" and that formula does not include
time. Total heat loss has a time element so slower moving water with
sufficient volume or mass OR faster moving, lower mass will move the same
heat, but the water has to stay in contact with the surface.

Boundary layer is affected by several things including velocity, size of pipe
or channel, material etc. but basically you have a gradual change in velocity
from the core or center of the flow to the surface of the channel, there is not
a well defined layer that doesn't move at all, it moves more slowly due to
friction between it and the static surface as I understand it.

> But two bodies of different temperatures will
> attempt to equalize their temperatures, the greater the differential, the
> quicker they will do it.

Exactly so the longer the same mass of water stays in contact with the metal
the more heat will transfer or the more cooler water passes by the more heat
will transfer but you have to keep them in contact in either case and once the
mass of water reaches a point close to the surface of the metal the heat
transfer drops off sharply so it turns out to be a balance beween sufficient
mass flowing by and velocity to keep the coolant cooler at any given point
and one reason coolant can't just flow from the front to the back is that the
back will not transfer enough heat to keep it the same temp as the front. :-)

When I designed the grid for my bathroom floor I made the input 3/4" and
the rungs 1/2" and the return 1/2" to try to even up the flow from front to
back so temp would be roughly the same. I used no formulas, just common
sense, with more rungs toward the rear, more water will flow to the rear in the
main trunk and once to the rear will exit roughly at the same rate all across
the grid. To make it more efficient I could have used more sizes and tapered
them more so the rear had the larger tubes.

A son-in-law only takes part of a daughter away,
Dad keeps the best part :-)

- -- Gary --


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:41:42 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Re: Long cooling ramble

some points to ponder:

the rate at which the heat moves thru the metal is irrelevant - it is
faster than the metal to water flow, or the metal to air flow.

i have asked some people and received the same answer from peoples who
opinions and experiences i respect. too fast a flow rate causing a hot
running engine is due to the flow thru the radiater, not the engine. (this
is a generalization, as increasing the pump speed on many engines creates
*cavitation at the pump*, and hot running is then caused by not enough
flow!)

this is supported by the the following. a boundry layer is the most
restrictive path for heat to travel thru. that is, the boundry being
considered is between any 2 materials, either solid, or one solid and one
liquid or gasious.

in the engine there is really one bounry layer, metal to coolant. in the
radiater there is 2. coolant to radiater, radiater to air. the radiater
to air is on a magnatude of 4 to 6 times as restrictive to heat transfer as
the metal to coolant.

so it would appear that there is a balance between the heat into the water
from the engine and the heat out thru the radiater that must be kept. too
much or too little heat added/subtracted on either side (engine/radiater)
will imbalance the whole system and either the engine will run hot, or run
cold.

IOW, the rate of heat transfer must be close to equal on both sides of the
system. now, too fast a flow through the radiater of water, could be
offset by increasing the air flow rate. the heat transfer rate from the
radiater to the air is dependant on:
(H)=the heat transfer rate in CHU per second
(K) the K constant (i do not know this value, called the proportanality
constant)
(A) the the cooling area on the air side of the radiater total
(Ti) the inlet water temp
(To) the outlet water temp
(Ta) the mean air temp (mean from front to rear of radiater matrix)
(V) the air velocity
(t) the "fin spacing" in radiater

the equation:
H=K*A*((Ti-Ta)+(To-Ta))/2)*((V^0.6)/(t^0.4))

notice there is no water velocity in eqaution. But, notice that if the
temp exiting or entering the radiater is made higher the heat transfer rate
is higher. if the water velocity increases enough that the time a single
unit of water spends in the radiater is reduced to a small enough interval
the heat tranfer rate hits a limit. the largest heat transfer rate is when
(To) approaches (Ti). but in this instance we can see that would mean that
only a small amount of heat is tranferred. and that amount (due to the
time the coolant stays in radiater) may be too small compared to the large
amount being introduced to the coolant on the engine side of the system.
you see, if the heat were removed, the radiater out temperature would be
decreased. to balance the system the temperature increase on the engine
side would be equal to the decrease in the Ti to To temps. (not the actual
temperatures measured, but the amount of heat, and temperature is a meas
urement of the amount of heat)

with me so far?

at some point the faster heat transfer rate cannot keep up with the heat
needed to be removed from the water, and then the whole volume of coolant
continuously increases in temperature.

the radiater can remove more heat given a coolant velocity and engine temp,
by increasing the size, increasing the airflow, decreasing the fin spacing,
making radiater thinner and wider/taller, or increasing K by using
different material for the radiater or adding turbulance creating bumps in
the fin area, etc.

it would appear from this eqution that increasing water speed increases the
cooling capacity until the system becomes time dependant, instead of heat
tranfer rate dependant.

this equation is from "the sports car"
by colin campbell

that's enough for now. must finish my customers work.

sleddog




- ----------
From: Gary, 78 BBB[SMTP:gpeters3 ford.com]
Sent: Monday, October 05, 1998 11:08 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Re: Long cooling ramble

Date sent: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 23:30:02 -0700
From: Vogt Family
Subject: FTE Perf - Re: Long cooling ramble

> I also take issue with your assertion that cold water accepts heat
> slower than hot water. Temperature differential affects heat transfer
> rate and the greater the differential the higher the rate.

This is exactly what I said. I hope you're not confusing my stuff with
someone elses?? I don't agree that cold water accepts heat at a slower
rate,
the rate is precisely governed by the materials in the water (impurities)
and
the temp difference between it and the hot surface and additionally the
ability
of the metal to conduct heat from within itself. Total heat transfer is
not
"instantaneous", the rate of transfer is calsulated on an instantaneous
transfer
though or as scientists call it "absolute" and that formula does not
include
time. Total heat loss has a time element so slower moving water with
sufficient volume or mass OR faster moving, lower mass will move the same
heat, but the water has to stay in contact with the surface.

Boundary layer is affected by several things including velocity, size of
pipe
or channel, material etc. but basically you have a gradual change in
velocity
from the core or center of the flow to the surface of the channel, there is
not
a well defined layer that doesn't move at all, it moves more slowly due to
friction between it and the static surface as I understand it.

> But two bodies of different temperatures will
> attempt to equalize their temperatures, the greater the differential, the
> quicker they will do it.

Exactly so the longer the same mass of water stays in contact with the
metal
the more heat will transfer or the more cooler water passes by the more
heat
will transfer but you have to keep them in contact in either case and once
the
mass of water reaches a point close to the surface of the metal the heat
transfer drops off sharply so it turns out to be a balance beween
sufficient
mass flowing by and velocity to keep the coolant cooler at any given point
and one reason coolant can't just flow from the front to the back is that
the
back will not transfer enough heat to keep it the same temp as the front.
:-)


- -- Gary --


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 22:31:43 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE Perf - ADMIN: My health and thanks

Many members have sent, either through the lists or personally,
their concerns since I announced that I was on bed rest last
week.

Now that the ordeal is over, I'll let everyone know what
happened. Thursday night I started having numbness on the
left side of my face and on my left arm. Fearing the worst,
since something like this usually indicates a) heart attack,
b) stroke or c) brain tumor, I went to the hospital.

The EKG, blood work and cat scan came back normal. I was
told to get bed rest until I could see a neurologist. On
Saturday, the symptoms came back. I was given an MRI. It
came back normal. Today I say the neurologist. It turns
out that I was having an unusual/rare form of migraine headache.
I normally don't get many headaches so this was a surprise to me!

Well, its not life threatening, or even life-span threatening
so as the say down under: "no worries".

Thanks to the many who expressed their concerns.

Ken Payne
CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 00:35:45 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE Perf - ADMIN: Web site updates

1. New links added to misc vehicle links page.
2. New links added to misc trucks links page.
3. Following pictorial additions:
37 pickup, 41 "Crewcab", 53 F600, 54 F100,
57 F100, 70 F250, 72 F100, 77 F250, 78 F150
92 F150, 98 Ranger, 99 F250 SD Crewcab,
99 F350 SD
4. Event added to events page.
5. Cyber-Teddy Top 500 web site award added to awards page.....


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