perf-list-digest Wednesday, September 9 1998 Volume 01 : Number 083



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

FTE Perf - Re: FTE 61-79 - Bad engine parts, was: responses
FTE Perf - fourth place!
RE: FTE Perf - Re: FTE 61-79 - Bad engine parts, was: responses
FTE Perf - speedo cable
RE: FTE Perf - Re: FTE 61-79 - Bad engine parts, was: responses
Re: FTE Perf - Fuel Injection
RE: FTE Perf - Re: FTE 61-79 - Bad engine parts, was: responses
Re: FTE Perf - fourth place!
FTE Perf - ADMIN: Classified ads section
FTE Perf - adress

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Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:58:45 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: FTE Perf - Re: FTE 61-79 - Bad engine parts, was: responses

From: NUTCH11 aol.com
Date sent: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 08:58:51 EDT
Subject: FTE 61-79 - responses

> gentleman with the 60 over "nice block" i have a steel fe crank with
> cracks in all the journals that would make a nice match for your block. on

This brings up a question I have concerninga crank which I badly abused
with a 4# hammer when attempting to loosen the pistons to remove the
crank. I really whacked the counter weights many times, repeatedly to
attempt to break it free but it was really rusted together so I gave up and took
them out one piston at a time. The crank looks repairable but now that I
whacked it with the big hammer is it likely to be damaged? Might it have
cracks in it or be twisted? Will a magnaflux show any internal cracks so that
I can be "absolutely" sure it will not break if I re-use it after having it
reground?

I have some pretty good ideas as to the answers to these questions but tend
to be "retentive" so thought I'd ask the almighty list :-)

Mr. Sleddog, would you use this crank?

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's "The Ex-Black Hole"
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's "The Black Hole"
78 LIncoln Continental, 460, C-6, 19.5' long! "The Future.." :-)
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo!

- -- Gary --
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:16:27 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: FTE Perf - fourth place!

got a 4th place at Newfoundland on sunday in the open class. held first
for awhile. 6500# class, but i only ran 5400# may have been able to get
2nd if i had the weight. first place went to a alcohol injected big block
ford.

pulled twice but once in only 3wd!

i have the full report on my website for those interested (instead of
taking up mailing list volume)

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/7273

sleddog

ps-sorry, still no new pictures :(

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:12:29 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Re: FTE 61-79 - Bad engine parts, was: responses

quit simply, yes and no. if i where doing a basic rebuild with cheap parts
and not a performance build with expensive parts and machining and intended
high rpms and power levels - yes! but for the performance build, no!

the crank needs to be cleaned, then magged. i would grind off any hammer
marks. if they are real deep or pronounced i would have a shop do it on
all the counterweights same amount before balancing.

if it was going into a derby car i'd probobly run it like it is :)

but, i used to have a tendancy to use parts that i never should have some
times. been lucky i guess.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Gary, 78 BBB[SMTP:gpeters3 ford.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 1998 5:58 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Cc: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Re: FTE 61-79 - Bad engine parts, was: responses

From: NUTCH11 aol.com
Date sent: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 08:58:51 EDT
Subject: FTE 61-79 - responses

> gentleman with the 60 over "nice block" i have a steel fe crank with
> cracks in all the journals that would make a nice match for your block.
on

This brings up a question I have concerninga crank which I badly abused
with a 4# hammer when attempting to loosen the pistons to remove the
crank. I really whacked the counter weights many times, repeatedly to
attempt to break it free but it was really rusted together so I gave up and
took
them out one piston at a time. The crank looks repairable but now that I
whacked it with the big hammer is it likely to be damaged? Might it have
cracks in it or be twisted? Will a magnaflux show any internal cracks so
that
I can be "absolutely" sure it will not break if I re-use it after having it
reground?

I have some pretty good ideas as to the answers to these questions but tend
to be "retentive" so thought I'd ask the almighty list :-)

Mr. Sleddog, would you use this crank?

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's "The Ex-Black Hole"
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's "The Black Hole"
78 LIncoln Continental, 460, C-6, 19.5' long! "The Future.." :-)
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo!

- -- Gary --
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html




== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:57:26 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE Perf - speedo cable

Jim Merlo writes: >>Any clues where the speedometer cable would attach?
How to attach it?

Mine is on the top drivers side of the very short tail shaft. (I thinK)
I'll look tonight if I can think of it and confirm.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:10:32 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Re: FTE 61-79 - Bad engine parts, was: responses

From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Re: FTE 61-79 - Bad engine parts, was: responses
Date sent: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:12:29 -0400

> the crank needs to be cleaned, then magged. i would grind off any hammer
> marks. if they are real deep or pronounced i would have a shop do it on
> all the counterweights same amount before balancing.

Well, I'm looking at $115 cost to recondition it so I don't want to trash and
engine because of a stupid $115 crank. My Pu 460 needs a new crank so I
thought I might have this one reconditioned and when I get a chance, pop it
in but don't want to risk damaging my block since it's a 70 vintage and virgin
with screw in plugs etc.

I'm going to salvage 7 rods, the crank and bare heads from that old engine,
everything else is junk (75 vintage) :-)


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's "The Ex-Black Hole"
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's "The Black Hole"
78 LIncoln Continental, 460, C-6, 19.5' long! "The Future.." :-)
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo!

- -- Gary --
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:13:39 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Fuel Injection

>From: ballingr ldd.net (William L Ballinger)
>Subject: FTE Perf - Re:Fuel Injection
>
>snip
>
>As for the original thread, I've never heard of an EFI
>that didn't have a computer. I believe that Ford used
>the EEC-II on the variable-venturi feedback carb even,

Yo Bill, et al:

I hope I can offer a little clarification on this. The EEC-II system you
refer to was called DuraSpark II by Ford. It was their second-generation
breakerless ignition system that was first used in 1975. It provided only
electronic (breakerless) ignition triggering by reading electromagnetic
signals from a rotor and magnetic pickup that replaced the points inside
the distributor. The control box is essentially just an electronic signal
amplifier, not a computer. The DuraSpark II system continued to be used
until 1987 on over 8500# GVW trucks (F250HD and F350), which were exempt
from several emissions regulations. DuraSpark II was used until 1987 on
both 4V (Holley) engines and 2V (Motorcraft 2150) engines.

>then the EEC-III on TBI cars. I'm a little fuzzy on the
>years but by '84 the only thing AFAIK that wasn't
>computer controlled were the Holley carbed engines.

Ford used both DuraSpark III (originally) and EEC-III names to designate
this system. It was first used on cars in 1978 and discontinued by 1982.
Again, the DuraSpark III system is not an engine control computer. It
governs only the ignition system. Along with providing breakerless
ignition triggering (like DS II), it also has some rudimentary
advance/retard functions. It is a slightly more sophisticated (and
cumbersome) version of the DS II system. It was used only on carbureted
vehicles as it lacks the computing capability for fuel delivery control.

All fuel injected Ford vehicles up to 1992 used the EEC-IV system. After
1992, the distributorless ignition EEC-V system was introduced on the new
4.6L modular V8 engines. Pushrod engines (7.5/460, 5.8/351W, 5.0/302, and
4.9/300 I6) continued to use the EEC-IV system until their production
ended.

The EEC-IV is a true engine management computer that can control both fuel
delivery and ignition timing. Since it is based on a microprocessor, it
can be programmed for a variety of applications and use memory chips to
store its diagnostic and engine control information. As an engine
management system, the EEC-IV is extremely versatile and limited only by
its software and sensor inputs.

The EEC-IV was adapted to both carbureted and injected applications, both
CFI (Ford's name for throttle body injection) and SEFI systems. After
1982, all Ford cars used the EEC-IV system, regardless of whether they were
carbureted or injected.

Carburetors adapted to allow the EEC-IV system to control their fuel/air
mixture were referred to as "feedback" carburetors because an exhaust gas
oxygen (O2) sensor gave the EEC-IV system lean/rich data, which it then
used to adjust the fuel/air mixture in the carb to maintain (theoretical)
stoichiometry. In the carb, the feedback system consisted of a simple air
bleed passage (to lean the mixture) that was regulated by a solenoid valve.

The EEC-IV system was used on all trucks after 1983, except the over 8500#
GVW trucks w/ DuraSpark II systems.

The main reason that the EEC-IV was phased out was the EPA mandate for more
advanced OBD (On-Board Diagnostic) standards, which require more diagnostic
and monitoring capability than the EEC-IV was designed for.

Dave R. (M-block not EEC devotee)


== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:27:28 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Re: FTE 61-79 - Bad engine parts, was: responses

why not get the new crank kit from SVO? 4.300" stroke gives 514 cid, 520
with a .030 over bore! it is a steel cast crank. under $800 for the
crank, 1695 for the crank kit (pistons rods etc.) and 2650 for the block
assembled with above, and 6495 for a whole 514 crate engine with alum svo
heads minus carb, wires, headers, front dress.

the crank is a graet price at under $800, and pistons run about 500, and
pins etc about $20 a cylinder not including bearings.

think about it...an offset ground 4.300 crank to BB chevy size (like we do
to the cast iron cranks) will give 557 cubes with a 4.390 bore (577 with a
.110 overbore) and still use cheap eagle rods and cheap forged pistons.
with a small roller (like 650 lift) you would have a 600+ hp torque
monster that runs on good pump gas at around 10:1 CR and will runa decent
6500-7000 rpms on the street while still idling like a 460 with a .525 lift
or so hydraulic cam.

hmmm, me thinks me have a new project to think about....

sleddog

- ----------
From: Gary, 78 BBB[SMTP:gpeters3 ford.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 1998 8:10 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Re: FTE 61-79 - Bad engine parts, was: responses

From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Re: FTE 61-79 - Bad engine parts, was:
responses
Date sent: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:12:29 -0400

> the crank needs to be cleaned, then magged. i would grind off any
hammer
> marks. if they are real deep or pronounced i would have a shop do it on
> all the counterweights same amount before balancing.

Well, I'm looking at $115 cost to recondition it so I don't want to trash
and
engine because of a stupid $115 crank. My Pu 460 needs a new crank so I
thought I might have this one reconditioned and when I get a chance, pop it
in but don't want to risk damaging my block since it's a 70 vintage and
virgin
with screw in plugs etc.

I'm going to salvage 7 rods, the crank and bare heads from that old engine,
everything else is junk (75 vintage) :-)


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's "The Ex-Black Hole"
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's "The Black Hole"
78 LIncoln Continental, 460, C-6, 19.5' long! "The Future.." :-)
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo!

- -- Gary --
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html




== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 22:40:03 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - fourth place!

At 10:16 AM 9/8/98 -0400, you wrote:
>got a 4th place at Newfoundland on sunday in the open class. held first
>for awhile. 6500# class, but i only ran 5400# may have been able to get
>2nd if i had the weight. first place went to a alcohol injected big block
>ford.
>
>pulled twice but once in only 3wd!
>
>i have the full report on my website for those interested (instead of
>taking up mailing list volume)
>
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/7273
>
>sleddog
>
>ps-sorry, still no new pictures :(
>

Congrats! 1st is just over the horizon!

Ken Payne
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 23:22:22 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE Perf - ADMIN: Classified ads section

Due to the popular opinion (which I have to admit I agree with) that
the new classifieds pages stink, I've brought back the old classifieds.
I'm in the process of writing my own classifieds manager which I hope
will address the short-comings of both the old and new systems.

Ken Payne
CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 01:27:05 -0700
From: "J.S.H."
Subject: FTE Perf - adress

My ford-truck email adress works great and I highly recomend it.
Considering what I get off of these lists I figure buying a adress was....


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