perf-list-digest Saturday, August 22 1998 Volume 01 : Number 066



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

FTE Perf - T'stat hole
Re: FTE Perf - T'stat hole
Re: FTE Perf - T'stat hole
FTE Perf - more cooling stuff - after the last pull, PLD V1 #65
RE: FTE Perf - more cooling stuff - after the last pull
FTE Perf - cooling Misc.
FTE Perf - RE: Expected gas mileage?

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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 08:36:59 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE Perf - T'stat hole

danny writes: >>There must be something to it because I have a 2.9L Bronco
II and the stock thermostat has an extra 3/16" hole with a one way
check ball in it. I always wondered what this was for.

Letting the air out(burping) when the cooling system is refilled after
being emptied. The T'stat will be encased in air many times if the vehicle
is emptied of cooling for any reason, and this causes the engine to
overheat before the T'stat opens. Terribly hard on blocks and heads -
especially aluminum. If mine doesn't have one from the factory, then I
drill one. Probably smaller than the 3/16" you mention, but the T'stat
really needs to be submersed in the coolant.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 08:49:08 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - T'stat hole

From: am14 chrysler.com
Date sent: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 08:36:59 -0400
Subject: FTE Perf - T'stat hole

> Letting the air out(burping) when the cooling system is refilled after
> being emptied. The T'stat will be encased in air many times if the
> vehicle is emptied of cooling for any reason, and this causes the engine
> to overheat before the T'stat opens.

Which is why I always burp the system through the heater hoses. If you
notice the heater is routed on both sides of the thermostat so it acts as a
bypass for the block before the thermostat opens. If you open the top most
hose untill coolant runs out and put it back on you should never have air
problems. This, of course, is only on older "real" engines. I don't have a
clue what these young, wet behind the ears engineers have cooked up to
make our lives miserable now days but it works on the older ones for sure :-)

Thay make engines out of aluminum now? God! What will they think of
next :-) Will we ever see a "Glock" engine?

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 LIncoln Continental, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:45:42 EDT
From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - T'stat hole

>

Actually I remember a couple years ago that Ford was developing a ceramic
engine for the Escort. This work was all being done in Australia. It was a 2
cylinder diesel! I remember them showing the prototype doing on of the
smokiest burnouts I've ever seen a FWD do.

JUMPINFORD AOL.com
73 F-250 RangerXLT Camper Special
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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:15:02 GMT
From: cdailey hhs.state.ne.us (Chad Dailey)
Subject: FTE Perf - more cooling stuff - after the last pull, PLD V1 #65

Sleddog--

Have you considered methanol? That stuff runs soooo coool. I know a
couple of drag racers that can run w/o a radiator on cool days to save
weight. Is this an option for you?

Just a thought...

Chad

>Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:14:17 -0400
>From: Sleddog
>Subject: FTE Perf - more cooling stuff - after the last pull
>
>ran a pull up in harford pa on tuesday night. actually, got to run =
twice!
>was going to put a set of 94/84 jets in, but all i could find was 97's =
and=20
>88's. these are big jets my freinds! (was 70/80. well actually, was =
70/80=20
>written on bowls, but was 72/82 inside!)
>
>so, put them in before the pull and guess what. 2 things came up. one,=
it=20
>runs cooler. alot cooler! plus, it was a cool night. i started runs =
at=20
>180 or so, and finished at under 210.
>
>the mixture was still lean though. it glowed the pipes the whole way, =
and=20
>very bright.
>
>thinking now, that this carb will never be able to flow the juice =
enough.=20
> looks like i will need a MUCH bigger one. also, run up to 6000 rpms. =
i=20
>really think the carb is restricting it. it should pull much more=20
>especially with the low final gearing i had with the tires i used.
>
>I think i may be able to keep it all cool with this electric pump, if i =
can=20
>get the jetting right. perhaps some other things may be required in the=
=20
>future, but for now i'll wait on running lines from the back of the =
head.
>
>i ran against super stock trucks (not street legal-mine has a inspection=
=20
>sticker) and took out a few of them. didn't place, but feel confidant =
with=20
>its's performance. i know what i need to do. will also go bigger tire =
for=20
>the last few pulls.
>
>sleddog

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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:51:00 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - more cooling stuff - after the last pull

no option by the rules.
but other than the rules saying no way, i would love to run it! no cooling
problems then! but then, will my pump pump enough? don't matter, rules
prohibit it.
sleddog

- ----------
From: Chad Dailey[SMTP:cdailey hhs.state.ne.us]
Sent: Friday, August 21, 1998 10:15 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE Perf - more cooling stuff - after the last pull, PLD V1 #65

Sleddog--

Have you considered methanol? That stuff runs soooo coool. I know a
couple of drag racers that can run w/o a radiator on cool days to save
weight. Is this an option for you?

Just a thought...

Chad



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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:36:06 -0700
From: "Chris Samuel"
Subject: FTE Perf - cooling Misc.

- ->All very nice info Chris and I can't find any fault in your reasoning or
info ->but my main point was that the convection works in conjunction with
and
- ->enhances the pump flow.

Ok I'll use this simple definition for convection:
Hot water rises and cold water sinks relative to each other. This is true
in relatively still water like say oceans and hot water heaters, or low
output engines like Model T's.

In our relatively high output engines whether they be 289's, FE's, Winzers,
M class, or 385's; the hottest water in an engine is in the heads and the
top 1/8-1/4 of the bore. This is the reason (one of them) that the water
pump was added to the engine.
The convection theory would say that you are adding heat at the bottom of
the bore causing the water to rise up in to the cooler heads... but the
bottom of the bore is in fact the coolest portion of the bore, the
temperature rises as we move up the bore and continues to rise increasing as
the area around the exhaust port is reached. This is the reason that the
convection theory can't work. What you are asking is the cooler water to
rise and the hot water to sink.

SNIP
- ->One other question/difference of opinion I have is that in an open system
- ->pressure is equal in all directions so how would the top of the radiator
have
- ->more pressure than the bottom?
- ->Since I have no test data to substantiate my claim I'll shut up now :-)

If you pump water into a tank without an outlet then you should have the
same pressure on all surfaces of the tank.
If you then place an outlet at the opposite end of the tank and let the
water simply run out; the pressure would be slightly lower but relatively
equal throughout out the tank.
If you put a bunch of baffles and restrictions in between the inlet and
outlet the pressure will be lower on the outlet side because of the
restriction to the flow.
If you pump water in to the top of the radiator, and restrict its movement
(the tubes in the radiator), and then pump the water out of the bottom; the
pressure at the top will be higher then the pressure at the bottom.

The only time that the cooling system is open is when the pressure exceeds
the preload on the cap. Not a good thing!

CS


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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:20:51 -0700
From: Tom&Carol Hogan
Subject: FTE Perf - RE: Expected gas mileage?

Y'all wrote:
- ------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:10:53 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Re: FTE Perf - Expected gas mileage?

From: WmRobinso aol.com
Date sent: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 01:07:30 EDT
Subject: Re: Re: FTE Perf - Expected gas mileage?

> I've NOW figure that I'm getting circa 12 mpg around town. I thought
that
> that was pretty poor for a 302 cid.

Depends on the year and application. A 302 in a 4x4 with big tires and
low
gears will be a dog and not get very good mileage but in a 2wd with the
right
power train components and stock size tires it can get up to 24 (that
I've
heard of). What's sad to me is that new trucks with V6's only get 13
mpg
when I can get 12 from a worn, un tuned 460 and have a LOT more get up
and go. Course the 460 won't pass smog if that's important......not to
me :-)
- ----------------------------------------

Amen Brother!
My '76 F-150 Supercab got 12.8 with a 390 when I got it 3 years ago.
I'm thinking either the carb needs work or the motor is approaching
rebuild time cause the mileage dropped to 11 mpg (both around town) and
it had trouble passing smog this year. :0(
People think I'm nuts when they find out it's my daily driver ("Why
don't you get a new one that gets better mileage?"). Then I start doing
the math for them. I pay: gas ($80/month I don't drive all that far),
insurance (liability only and it's cheap), and license ($120/year).
They pay: gas (their mileage aint no better so the cost is the same!!),
insurance (full coverage $$$$$ cause it's new), license ($$$$$ cause
it's new), CAR PAYMENT (BIG $$$$$ it's almost religiously offensive to
me the new car payments today). All of a sudden my cost of ownership
per month is about $800 less than theirs. Now who's nuts???? If you
gotta have that "new car smell" then go for it. Just make sure you
understand what it's really costing you and that you can afford it.....


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