perf-list-digest Tuesday, July 14 1998 Volume 01 : Number 027



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

Re: FTE Perf - Cam Recommendation_very very long.
RE: FTE Perf - Cam Recommendation_very very long.
Re: FTE Perf - Cam Recommendation_very very long.
FTE Perf - ADMIN: FTE Incorporation

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Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 07:21:09 -0700
From: "George"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Cam Recommendation_very very long.

the PI heads are usually the big valves or the 2.19/1.73 as far as i
remember with the standard ports. very good heads for what you want! wish
i had a set of these for my street truck.


2.24/1.73. Found them on the net while advertising for CJs.

you can justify the low gear set (wide ratio) in that for climbing those
roads in snow gear ration is good. the lower first gear is like having
3.73 rear gears when in first, and 3.50 when in 2, drive. it is a good
thing - maybe later down the road you will find the justification for the
expense.


I'd like to have them but at this time I can't afford the off-setting
jewelery.

for a cam, with that low a stall speed, and still wanting good higher
running with immense off idle torque you are asking for alot. first, did
you get a 30 degree valve seat on the intake? this helps low lift flow
immensly and can help you out in all ways, while loosing only a little at
the top end. ask the flathead boys about that one!


Haven't had the seats ground. After listeing to the racers, I bought
Manley SS street valves. I won't be turning sustained high rpms and think
they'll do the job for me. 30 degrees?

a hydraulic cam is really your only choice unless you got pistons cut for
big enough releifs that a roller will fit in with about .600 lift.


At this point I'm thinking hydraulic.

but as far as a cam choice goes i would guess like this (and it really is a
guess, call places like ultradyne and see how i compare.)

I've called Crane and Comp but like so many other cam grinders, the reps
I talked to are hung up on small blocks and off the line ability. I keep
hearing what I consider a moderate lift/duration and higher t/c stall. 'or
it'll be a dog off the line'. Low rpm torque in a big block isn't a popular
subject

lift about .490-.510 and duration under 280 advertised. for those heads, i
hope you removed the thermactor lump. either way a small amount more
exhaust lift and/or duration than intake might be good. this is arguable
but i feel the restrictive port needs help, and the cam is one way to help.


I'm currently running a Crane .519/.519, 228 degrees w/ DOVE heads. c/r is
9.6:1. I can't stand on it from a dead stop but the DOVEs work better at low
rpms than the CJs did with their big ports and a slightly higher
lift/duration cam. I did get plenty rpm with the CJs once they started to
breath.

with the higher CR and still wanting good top end go with close lobe
centers around 108-110. more than that and you may have a low rpm knock
and loose some rpm ability. 112-114 LC angles are good for torque at low
rpms, but you got cubes, and big cubes don't need those big LC angles.


Agreed.

stay away from rhoads or other variable duration lifters IMNSHO. as for
companies, ultradyne makes the best in my opinion. i also like crower,
comp cams.


I've ran Rhodes on my last two engines. A solid 16-18 lbs of vacuum but
plenty noisy.

for what you want i think max low lift flow is important. the cam needs to
optimize low lift flow, while not being too large, and this is where
rollers shine. if you have the money, and the pistons to fit, a roller is
the way to go. a "small" roller gives this low lift flow by opening and
closing the valve faster/quicker than a flat tappet and still not getting
too big lift and duration wise. in fact a roller that is bigger than a
flat tappet will idle much better and keep more low end than a flat tappet
cam and give more manifold vacuum. 30 deg valve seat not needed with a
roller.

look for cams giving max torque around 2500 and max HP around 5000-5500.
this is a tough requirement. my first call would be to ultradyne. see
what they say. most cam companies give smaller cams as a recommendation
than they should though. keep this in mind. ultradyne does not seem to
fall into this catagory, but i have only talked to them about competition
only cams so bear this in mind.


Your points about a roller are valid. I hadn't considered it because of
cost, but the more I think about it, it sounds like a far better solution. I
haven't bought pistons, so I'm going to take a serious look at it.
Thanks for all the good info.

George Miller

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From: George[SMTP:maga55 ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 1998 10:57 PM
To: Ford-performance
Subject: FTE Perf - Cam Recommendation

I've finally completed cleaning up the combustion chambers of a set of '72
385 series PI heads. They have the CJ sized valves and DOVE ports. Ford did
make some strange combos; all the references say they should cc at 91.5 with
regular CJ ports but these are 75.3 with the small runners. Ford Motorsport
said that combo was common for the casting number. It saved me coin as I
had intended to have DOVE heads machined out for the big valves.

My objectives are off idle torque from 700-1200rpm for getting up snow
covered logging roads carrying while pulling a load without wheelspin and
continue being able to frustrate the highway plastic car high rpm'ers on
the street who like to crowd me after we're rolling. I'll stay with a
7-800rpm
stall speed t/c. C6 (wish I could justify the wide ratio) and 3.50
differential gears.

The c/r will be 10.1:0. My own experience and lurking on the Fordinatics
and other lists have defined the advantage/disadvantages of small runner/big
valve velocity for purposes of torque/rpm in small blocks. That's always a
single objective and not related to the 385 series. I want the off-idle
torque, will sacrifice blue smoke launches but still want it to be mean
from 2500-6000rpm. I know I should buy a F250 4x4 diesel and a CJ Torino but
that means going out of budget and more maintenance than I can handle.

Which cam?

Thanks,

George Miller




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Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:24:08 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Cam Recommendation_very very long.

normally the valve seat is ground with a 45 deg seat, with an anlge above
and below (3 angle valve seat)

with a 30 deg seat, as the valve opens the actual flow area at a given ift
(low lifts only) is greater, giving increased low lift flow. it impededs
flow at the higher rpms/lifts though. flathead builders are known for this
since they are very limited in lift and actual flow is always impeded by
the head, and in other engines it is impeded by the piston, but only
sometimes ( close to TDC)

i haven't tried it myself, but have only heard good things. i never needed
the low end torque.

sleddog
ps- those valves should work just fine. i have been using stock ford
valves for years with no problems. my new one is getting good ones though.

- ----------
From: George[SMTP:maga55 ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Monday, July 13, 1998 10:21 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Cam Recommendation_very very long.


Haven't had the seats ground. After listeing to the racers, I bought
Manley SS street valves. I won't be turning sustained high rpms and think
they'll do the job for me. 30 degrees?



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Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:13:21 -0700
From: "George"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Cam Recommendation_very very long.

normally the valve seat is ground with a 45 deg seat, with an anlge above
and below (3 angle valve seat)


I'm going to stay with the 45 deg to avoid limits on the higher rpm
range.

ps- those valves should work just fine. i have been using stock ford
valves for years with no problems. my new one is getting good ones though.

That's all I've ever used until this set. I never could find any solid
answers as to why I should go the SS for street use. Now, there isn't that
much difference in price.

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Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 22:34:36 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE Perf - ADMIN: FTE Incorporation

Ford Truck Enthusiasts, Inc. received its paperwork from the
State of Georgia on Saturday. It held its organizational
meeting yesterday evening and is now operating as a corporation.

Don't expect to see many changes in the day to day operations
of the site other than improvements I've discussed in the
past. The formation of a corporation was a natural result
of our growth and exposure. The possibility of a club still
exists and is being discussed off the list with some list
members.

Thanks,
Ken Payne
President (and still list admin), Ford Truck Enthusiasts, Inc.

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