[none]

perf-list-digest Tuesday, June 30 1998 Volume 01 : Number 012

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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

[none]
Re: FTE Perf - balancing
Re: FTE Perf - Colder plugs
FTE Perf - Re:
FTE Perf - Compression Ratio's
RE: FTE Perf - Compression Ratio's
Re: FTE Perf - Compression Ratio's
Re: FTE Perf - Colder plugs
RE: FTE Perf - Compression Ratio's & now blowers
Re: FTE Perf - Compression Ratio's
Re: FTE Perf - Colder plugs
Re: FTE Perf - Colder plugs
FTE Perf - FE cam

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Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 11:13:31 -0700
From: Keith Srb
Subject: [none]

Forwarded for "George"
>
>What's the c/r with '86 heads? My book only goes to '78 and those heads are
>96.2cc, which would provide 8.0 with the late block and 9.1 with an early,
>short decked block and flattop pistons.
>
>George
>
>
>
>At 12:41 PM 25/6/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>Hello all. I just joined the list a couple of minutes ago. Thanks George
>for
>>turning me onto this list and Kieth for the instructions!! Anyway I own a
>78
>>Bronco with a decently built 460. 86 motor, stock heads, edelbrock
>performer
>>intake, edelbrock 750 carb with electric choke, DUI ignition system and a
>>somewhat mild cam.
>
>
>I hate to tell you this, the 86 heads are a better choice for a big time
>port and polish job than the earlier heads. Check the archives for the
>article I wrote to sleddog, about a year ago, or I can try to find the
>original story in Super Ford mag, but that might take a while....
>
>Steve & Rockette...Lifes a beach
>'63 F100 Longbox
>'94 Taurus SHO - SWMBO's new car!!
>and since most are listing all thier cars:
>'72 Capri - Rockette's Toy, aka - SWMBO
>'73 Capri - My Toy / Daily Driver
>'73 MGB-GT Our Toy
>'70 Torino GT My "New" Car

Keith Srbherbie

napanet.com
>
>What a great idea. I use this list because I'm restoring a 58F100 with a
>later big block 428 etc,. But
>I also own a 92 Ranger work truck with the same 4cylinder I suppose. Good
>luck with the SCCA I
>used to dream of road racing years back, but never got further along than
>an occasional autocross.
>I'm not familiar with the improved touring class, but I'm pleased to hear
>such a thing exists. I currently
>use my Ranger in my window cleaning business. I bought it new in 92 and
>have about 120,000 pretty
>much trouble free miles. Maybe I'll finally get that road racing in during
>my retirement years; I was
>wondering what I'd do with the truck down the road.
>Regarding your question on the spark plug heat range, I totally understand
>about the Autozone type
>parts stores. Most of the auto part chain stores are great for filters or
>whatever if it's just off the shelf
>or like they say "what model, year, make, etc" and the computer says----.
>What I've found, and very
>much appreciate is a local individually owned parts store with NO computer
>in sight. I go to a place
>named Sunset Auto, and the owner is a vintage circle track racer and lover
>of all types of cars. He has
>parts catalogs and years of experience and can use both well. He can't
>compete in price with the chain
>stores, but his advice and help with projects make his more expensive parts
>actually cheaper in
>the long run. I suggest you find a local store like this.
>Tom Ewing
>58F100
>BB428
>C6
>----------
>> Hello all, I have built an '89 Ranger to go road racing with the SCCA in
>> their improved touring class. My question is how do I find a colder
>> plug for the higher rpm's that I am going to be seeing? I have tried
>> Autozone but their answer is the same for almost everything "if I don't
>> have a part number I can't help you." I am using the stock plug size
>> now but beleive a colder plug would help in the higher rpm range. The
>> engine is an 2.3 w/fuel injection. I have added a set of headers and
>> removed all smog equip. Thanks in advance.
>>
>> gottago seeya bye
>>
>> Brett ITT 41
>> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>>
>
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 11:36:35 -0700
From: "Darryl A. Regan"
Subject: FTE Perf - Re:

Date sent: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 11:13:31 -0700
To: perf-list

ford-trucks.com
From: Keith Srb
Send reply to: perf-list

ford-trucks.com

> Forwarded for "George"
> >
> >What's the c/r with '86 heads? My book only goes to '78 and those heads are
> >96.2cc, which would provide 8.0 with the late block and 9.1 with an early,
> >short decked block and flattop pistons.
> >
> >George
> >
> >

>From what I remember it is either 8.0:1 or 8.6:1.

dar6

jps.net
78 Bronco Ranger XLT (460 powered)
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 12:46:47 -0700
From: Keith Srb
Subject: FTE Perf - Compression Ratio's

Two Questions.

1. What is the highest compression ratio that can be run reliably on pump
gas?

2. What type of fuel, or fuel additives would I have to use to run 10 or
11 to 1 compression in a street engine that will only see occasional use on
the weekends, including some drag racing? Most of the time the truck will
just be used for cruzin. Unless, I am provoked by the person/vehicle in
the next lane at the stop lights.

Cost of fuel and/or additives is of no concern. :)

Thanks!

Keith Srbherbie

netvalue.net
Performance List Admin in Training.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.netvalue.net/herbie
Mesa, AZ

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 16:12:49 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Compression Ratio's

ok, now we're talking!

first, it depends on many factors, and rules of thumb are on the safe side,
usually saying 9.5:1 for cast iron heads, 10.5:1 for aluminum. but, i have
a 460 that ran 11.5:1 on pump with cast iron heads, so go figure.

anyway, good polishing and detailing of the combustion chamber and pistons
can easily add at least a half point of compression ability before
detonation. a good design to start with helps, the wedge can handle more
than the flathead for example.

a very large cam that bleeds off alot of pressure at low rpms helps - but
only at low rpms. high compression with an RV cam can lead to big
problems.

the fuel to use if detonation is a problem would be racing fuel such as
turbo blue, klotz, unical, etc. there are so many options that you need
alot of research to find one that best suits your needs. the average price
for that kind of "pump" race gas is around $4-$5 bucks a gallon. as for
assitives, they don't help much, and in worse cases, not at all. blending
fuels can help, but you might do alot of damage before figuring out the
right mixture/jetting/etc.

check out my web page at:

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/7273/

(shameless plug)
and go to the software page to find info on mixing your own anti-detonation
additives. but, i am not responsible for the outcome! i did not research
this - it is a copy of someone elses work...beware!

what engine are we talking about?

before i decided on a competition only engine, i was going to do what you
described. i had it down to (460, CI heads, etc.) running pump gas around
town, and race gas at the pulls. about 11.5 to 12.0:1 CR and a cam that
would be over .720 lift and ungodly duration to bleed of pressure at low
rpms. this combo works as per many builders i talked to but they said
"don't try to really RUN HARD or you will bust. you can only give part
throttle and low rpms around the streets. dual tanks was also an idea, but
how long does it take to clear the pump gas out of the carb, and get the
good gas in?

for a weekend warrior why not a very solid bottom end, and a nitrous shot?
not a safe thing unless you really know, or know someone who does know,
what to do with the stuff. ignition timing needs to be retarded when
breathing gas, and the exhaust side needs some extra attention, and
detonation MAY be a problem still, depending on the setup. i personnally
decided not to mess with that kind of HP improver yet.

BTW, race gas is better than pump gas with an off-the-shelf octane booster
in it.

ever consider methonal? can be a great fuel all round once it's set up
right, but the fuel system needs to be emptied when it sits for any length
of time, it costs alot to build/run, but will make great power and can use
much higher CR. smalles nice too :)

any help at all? i feel like i am just rambling.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Keith Srb[SMTP:herbie

netvalue.net]
Sent: Monday, June 29, 1998 3:46 PM
To: perf-list

ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Compression Ratio's

Two Questions.

1. What is the highest compression ratio that can be run reliably on pump
gas?

2. What type of fuel, or fuel additives would I have to use to run 10 or
11 to 1 compression in a street engine that will only see occasional use on
the weekends, including some drag racing? Most of the time the truck will
just be used for cruzin. Unless, I am provoked by the person/vehicle in
the next lane at the stop lights.

Cost of fuel and/or additives is of no concern. :)

Thanks!

Keith Srbherbie

netvalue.net
Performance List Admin in Training.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.netvalue.net/herbie
Mesa, AZ

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 13:13:45 -0700
From: "Darryl A. Regan"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Compression Ratio's

Date sent: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 12:46:47 -0700
To: perf-list

ford-trucks.com
From: Keith Srb
Subject: FTE Perf - Compression Ratio's
Send reply to: perf-list

ford-trucks.com

> Two Questions.
>
> 1. What is the highest compression ratio that can be run reliably on pump
> gas?
>
> 2. What type of fuel, or fuel additives would I have to use to run 10 or
> 11 to 1 compression in a street engine that will only see occasional use on
> the weekends, including some drag racing? Most of the time the truck will
> just be used for cruzin. Unless, I am provoked by the person/vehicle in
> the next lane at the stop lights.
>
> Cost of fuel and/or additives is of no concern. :)
>
> Thanks!
>
> Keith Srbherbie

netvalue.net
> Performance List Admin in Training.

I think at 10 or even 11:1 you can get away with 92 octane stuff. Ignition timing
becomes more critical. I know of guys running cleveland motors and 460's this
high on pump stuff.

dar6

jps.net
78 Bronco Ranger XLT (460 powered)
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 14:32:46 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Colder plugs

>From: "John Miller"
>Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Colder plugs
>
> just use the numerically lower plug with the same
>prefix/suffix as the one you are using currently. Of course
>go up numerically for a hotter plug. The same goes for
>A/C plugs and most other brands, however I don't

Yo Brett, John et al:

Last time I looked at an OLD Autolite package, it described "heat ranges"
as John did plug numbers, higher numbers are hotter heat ranges. However,
their part numbers go the opposite direction, higher numbers are cooler
plugs. The recommended plug for my 351M is Autolite #25, next hotter is
#24 and next cooler is #26. At least that's how I remember it. I've
noticed that they quit printing such useful information on the back of the
packages now. I have the last 5 or 6 sets of plugs I've changed in the old
packages and I was looking for that info just a few weeks ago.

Good luck.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 13:50:10 -0700
From: Keith Srb
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Compression Ratio's & now blowers

>what engine are we talking about?

A 390/410 :) It's going to go into my 66 F-100, after a lot of
suspension/drive train work.

cotta love them FE's!

>before i decided on a competition only engine, i was going to do what you
>described. i had it down to (460, CI heads, etc.) running pump gas around
>town, and race gas at the pulls. about 11.5 to 12.0:1 CR and a cam that
>would be over .720 lift and ungodly duration to bleed of pressure at low
>rpms. this combo works as per many builders i talked to but they said
>"don't try to really RUN HARD or you will bust. you can only give part
>throttle and low rpms around the streets.

What would this thing idle like? Why would it bust if you ran it hard?

>for a weekend warrior why not a very solid bottom end, and a nitrous shot?
> not a safe thing unless you really know, or know someone who does know,
>what to do with the stuff. ignition timing needs to be retarded when
>breathing gas, and the exhaust side needs some extra attention, and
>detonation MAY be a problem still, depending on the setup. i personnally
>decided not to mess with that kind of HP improver yet.

I am no where near ready to play with a nitrous or blown engine yet. Hmmm,
a blown FE Truck. What kind of problems would a blower added to this
situation?? As far a having a solid bottom end, I think this is a
necessity. Once you have a solid bottom end, you can play with the cam,
intake, carb's and other things.

>BTW, race gas is better than pump gas with an off-the-shelf octane booster
>in it.

Octane booster has never helped any of my vehicles.

>ever consider methonal? can be a great fuel all round once it's set up
>right, but the fuel system needs to be emptied when it sits for any length
>of time, it costs alot to build/run, but will make great power and can use
>much higher CR. smalles nice too :)

I am not sure how often, or long the truck would sit. It might only be
driven once or twice a month. Would I have to drain the tanks?

>any help at all? i feel like i am just rambling.

Yes this helps, but now it also has me wondering about using a 4 or 6-71
blower on the motor. I think I would have to let some else build that
motor for me though. I don't know if I like the idea of letting some one
else build my motor for me though.

>
>sleddog
>

Keith Srbherbie

netvalue.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.netvalue.net/herbie
Mesa, AZ

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 14:59:47 -0700
From: "George"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Compression Ratio's

I currently run iron heads at 9.6:1 with 32 degrees initial advance and
another 7-10 on the light, .519 228 cam without any signs of the silent
killer. I ran this for about 20k before I pulled the heads last time and now
have an additional 15k on that.

As Sleddog pointed out, 10.5 or 11.0 should be no problem with aluminum
heads. He does run a computer advance and I don't know if that's fixed or
compensating. Some of the new rice burners are running high compression but
it's my understanding that the processor compensates the advance depending
on load.

The best additive is a buddy who works at your small private airport.

Two Questions.

1. What is the highest compression ratio that can be run reliably on pump
gas?

2. What type of fuel, or fuel additives would I have to use to run 10 or
11 to 1 compression in a street engine that will only see occasional use on
the weekends, including some drag racing? Most of the time the truck will
just be used for cruzin. Unless, I am provoked by the person/vehicle in
the next lane at the stop lights.

Find

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:33:01 -0400
From: "John Miller"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Colder plugs

- ----------
> From: Dave Resch However,
> their part numbers go the opposite direction, higher numbers are cooler
> plugs. The recommended plug for my 351M is Autolite #25, next hotter is
> #24 and next cooler is #26. At least that's how I remember it.

Negative on that one Dave, For sure 24 is colder than a 25 and a 25 is
hotter than a 26. And I believe you really should be using a 26 in a stock
M block with Duraspark II. I am positive on the numbering of Autolites. Man
if I had a dime for everyone of those I intalled. I think my record was
around 30 V8s in a day (14 hours) plus tuning and dyno time.

John
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:44:43 -0400
From: "John Miller"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Colder plugs

- ----------
> From: John Miller
> Negative on that one Dave, For sure 24 is colder than a 25 and a 25 is
> hotter than a 26.

I blew it on that last post, here is the way it should have read;
I really meant that 24 is colder than a 25 and a 25 is colder than a 26.

Also I wanted to say that I ran 26s in a 351M with advanced cam timing and
a re-curved Dist, jets drilled out slightly, EGR blocked off and headers
for almost 100K miles. Man I loved that truck and engine.

John Miller, FoMoCoNUT

Gibralter.net
96 F-350 Reg Cab XLT, 4x4, 460 w/ A4OD, My Baby "Baloo"
75 F-100 Reg Cab Ranger, 2wd, 360, C6, Daily Driver "Lucy"
and "always" looking ! ! !

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 20:58:15 -0600
From: dcbeatty
Subject: FTE Perf - FE cam

Thanks everybody for the advice. I'm probably going to have to choose a cam
by next week. The machinist who is doing the motor has the Competition Cam
268 H in his F series truck with a 460, 3.54:1 gears and he says it works
great for all around stuff. He says it hauls his camper with a boat hitched
up to the mountains with no problem. Of course, he does have a 460, which
already has a-lot of low end to it. I'm wondering if mine won't have
enough. Maybe I should go lower?

I'll check out Crane and the others. Thanks as always for the advice and....

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