perf-list-digest Wednesday, August 26 1998 Volume 01 : Number 070



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

RE: FTE Perf - Rebuilding ????
RE: FTE Perf - Aircraft Piston Engines
RE: FTE Perf - Rebuilding ????
FTE Perf - Upside down cylinders
FTE Perf - Packard Engines manufactured in WWII
FTE Perf - 429/460 intakes
FTE Perf - Re: perf-list-digest
FTE Perf - Perf. upgrades for 76 F350
Re: FTE Perf - Re: perf-list-digest
Re: FTE Perf - Holley Pro-Jection
FTE Perf - F-100 Show
Re: FTE Perf - F-100 Show
Re: FTE Perf - Re: perf-list-digest
RE: FTE Perf - 429/460 intakes
FTE Perf - 99 V10
Re: FTE Perf - Rebuilding ????
FTE Perf - Compression ratio's

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 09:59:59 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Rebuilding ????

if you are rich it is easier to buy a long block. but if you like working
on your truck - rebuild it!
if you never did it before, get a book on rebuilding the cleveland/M
engines and read it. good to read, even if you don't decide to rebuild it.

sleddog

- ----------
From: David M. Ackerschott[SMTP:idah0 impulse.net]
Sent: Monday, August 24, 1998 4:21 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com; pre61-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Rebuilding ????

Hello all i just finished my frame for my 1953 ford f-100 so now on to
the motor, i have a 351 cleveland i am wondering how hard it is to
rebuild it??? i have never taken an engine apart before so i was kind of
wondering if any one could give me some pointers, the motor ran fine
when it was in the truck it smoked a little, it have a 2 barrel carb, so
i would also like to with this to a 4 barrel, i guess my question is is
it easier to rebuild or just go out and by a long block ??? any help
would be greatly appreciated.

sure am looking forward to the California North and South Ford F100 Show
this next weekend..........

thanks in a advance dddavid
1953 Ford F100 Sweet & Low
1996 Ford Contour
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:04:52 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Aircraft Piston Engines

very interesting. someday, i will go and get more books on aircraft engines. thanks for the info tim.

sleddog

- ----------
From: wild.bunch[SMTP:wild.bunch mci2000.com]
Sent: Monday, August 24, 1998 7:14 PM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Aircraft Piston Engines

Sleddog:
To answer your question about oil control in aircraft piston engines in
two words:

major snippage here-----------

Speaking of running on, sorry, I think I got a little far afield here!

tim


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:08:24 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Rebuilding ????

hold up, do not use the 4V heads unless you are going to be turning 8500
rpms! the 2V heads with the larger valves of the 4v installed is the way
to go. seen the flow charts. it's the truth.
as for the reference book-when i did my last BB stroker, i still used my
first rebuild reference book. they are priceless sometimes.

sleddog

- ----------
From: George[SMTP:maga55 ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Monday, August 24, 1998 9:19 PM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Rebuilding ????

Rebuilding an engine isn't that difficult It also provides an extra
measure
of satisfaction while increasing your tuning abilities - you know exactly
what's happening inside the engine.There are excellent books on the market
that will lead you step by step through the entire rebuilding process. I
used one to put my first 460 together and still consider that dog-eared
copy
my favorite reference.

I'm not a big fan of rebuilt short/long blocks from the production
rebuilders. I've had too many friends with horror stories about early wear
and failures. A pro builder is a different story but then you're getting
into some big labor bucks. I'd rebuild it using some good 4V or CJ heads
with the bigger valves and in the CJ's case, bigger ports, a decent cam,
some headers and a modern ignition system. It'll be a runner.

George Miller



Hello all i just finished my frame for my 1953 ford f-100 so now on to
the motor, i have a 351 cleveland i am wondering how hard it is to
rebuild it??? i have never taken an engine apart before so i was kind of
wondering if any one could give me some pointers, the motor ran fine
when it was in the truck it smoked a little, it have a 2 barrel carb, so
i would also like to with this to a 4 barrel, i guess my question is is
it easier to rebuild or just go out and by a long block ??? any help
would be greatly appreciated.

sure am looking forward to the California North and South Ford F100 Show
this next weekend..........

thanks in a advance dddavid
1953 Ford F100 Sweet & Low
1996 Ford Contour
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:24:41 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Upside down cylinders

gary writes: >>You are talking 7 cyl radial engines right?

Some of the old fighters used inverted V12's, made by Allison I believe.
Dry sump.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 11:28:02 -0400
From: "Mr. Paul R. Boudreault"
Subject: FTE Perf - Packard Engines manufactured in WWII

I have no general argument with what you have said in your posting about
Aircraft Engines of WWII vintage. However it should be noted that when
Packard began producing it's version of the Merlin out of the about the
first 2000 engines produced not one was serviceable as shipped from the
factory. (Something which really hit home when it was attributed to the
fact that Rolls Royce had a more fined process of manufacturing.)

Later it would be claimed that the hand built approach as opposed to the
mass production method sponsored by U.S. manufacturers may have been the
key. Packard no doubt produced excellent products after these glitches were
corrected. As for the Lightning, well the Brits were not overly impressed
with their version of this Aircraft because it was not fitted with the
excellent supercharging system that would be found in later versions in use
with the U.S. Army Air Corp, (such as the "P38 J"). This was because the
U.S. government would not allow the superchargers for export due shortage
for their own needs. (I do not think that anyone could fault them for this
view, but it did relegate the British P 38s to the niche of a mediocre
performing A/C). The first P38s to be used operationally were with the
Brits, and in fact they named the Aircraft the "Lightning". (The Brits
liked to use names for their production A/Cs.)

A/Cs such as the P51 Mustangs used the Allison in the "A" version. Later,
they would switch to the Merlin in the "D" version never to look back.

Anyway you slice it; there was some pretty spectacular performance from
these planes. A lot of people have their own favorite among these machines,
but lose site that different A/Cs had different advantages and
disadvantages. For instance, the Spitfire - its elliptical wings gave it
super agility and handling. This A/C was designed as an interceptor, being
unstable was an advantage. The Mustang on the other hand - also a superb
fighter was designed as a long-range escort. The negative dihedral of its
wings allowing it to achieve magnificent speeds, and high altitude
performance, (though in no small part to the supercharger design). It
should be noted that the "A" version was better suited to ground attack and
close support, a task to which many vets owe their lives.

I noticed that you did not mention the "Griffin" engine. Some say that this
was the "cat's ass" for performance.

I have a bit of hands on experience on quite a few of these and other A/Cs
as an Aircraft mechanic (both fixed and rotary wing), in both the military
and civil worlds.

Just had to comment, (probably because like the wife says "I can't shut up
about anything!")

You provided some really good info.

Mr. P. R. Boudreault
Proud owner of 1979 Ford Bronco, (which I am refinishing and customizing).
Retired RCAF/CAF
pboudreault sympatico.ca

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:36:51 -0500
From: "Mike Morton "
Subject: FTE Perf - 429/460 intakes

In the last week or so someone said you could turn the intake 180 degrees
front to back. It was to help even out the cooling from front to back. I
just glanced at one of mine setting on the shelf and noticed that the carb
mounting pad is at an angle.What is the reason for this? Does the engine set
slightly tilted in the vehicle? I am sure the carb sets level in my truck. I
guess my thought is that if you turn the manifold around and the engine is
tilted, will it mess up the floats in the carb or anything else? Also,
couldn't you only do this if you weren't concerned with emissions? Wouldn't
the EGR valve be interferring with the carb linkage? Just some thoughts as I
am kind of intrigued by the idea. It would certainly look different under
the hood.

Mike Morton
55 F100 - 460 w/C6

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:56:37 -0800
From: Alex
Subject: FTE Perf - Re: perf-list-digest

To whom ever can help,
I have a '79 F-250 Supercab w/ a C-6 and a 460, 2 wheel drive.......Can this truck be changed to 4 wheel drive....I have access to a
'79 truck minus engine ?
Alex
Fairbanks, Alaska

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------------------------------

Date: 25 Aug 1998 13:11:50 -0400
From: John.L.Johnson trw.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Perf. upgrades for 76 F350

I'm a first time subscriber, so if "protocol" is not correct please advise.
I'm the orig. owner of a 76 F-350 supercab, camper special, 460/C-6.
Truck is very cherry with only 65K miles, and has always been garaged.
I want to make some mods to the engine--I'm looking for advice/recommendations
for replacement heads, and intake manifold/carb to improve performance.
Would also like to know if anyone has installed the 7.5L FE enginge in
this vintage truck; are there any kits to do this? Would also like to
know if anyone has installed the current rear disk brake setup on this
vintage truck.

Thanks,
John in N. VA
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 13:38:43 EDT
From: A4T1RAT aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Re: perf-list-digest

In a message dated 08/25/1998 8:56:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
grunt mosquitonet.com writes:


I have a '79 F-250 Supercab w/ a C-6 and a 460, 2 wheel drive.......Can this
truck be changed to 4 wheel drive....I have access to a
'79 truck minus engine ? >>

Yes it is can be done a number of ways..depending on your abilities. I have
done about 40, 2x4 to 4x4 conversions on many ford trucks form 1949 to 1992 if
you want more info ( detailed ) E-mail me and I will try to explain in detail
...
Gordon.
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 13:47:49 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Holley Pro-Jection

Date sent: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:04:01 -0600
Subject: FTE Perf - Holley Pro-Jection
From: "Nils Gore"

> I'm getting ready to put a newly re-built 302 in my 64 F100.
>
> On the advice of a friend, I'm thinking about putting the 2v Holley
> Pro-Jection fuel injection system on it as well.
>
> Can anyone advise me good, bad or indifferent?

If you will be going off road it will take the bumps better but if not and if you
are not going to go from one extreme altitude to the other on a regular basis
then I'd stick with the carb but some have had a measure of success with it.

The more expensive version has a self compensating system which makes
driving from sea level to high altitudes a lot more fun. The less expensive
version uses a knob in the cab to adjust it on the fly as needed but be carefull
to understand what you are doing since you can burn up an engine with the
wrong mixture :-(

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's "The Ex-Black Hole"
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's "The Black Hole"
78 LIncoln Continental, 460, C-6, 19.5' long! "The Future.." :-)
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 11:05:10 -0700
From: "Gates, Markham"
Subject: FTE Perf - F-100 Show

> David
>
> Where is the F-100 show going to be? Can you send me any info?
> TIA!
>
> Markham Gates
>
>
>
> sure am looking forward to the California North and South Ford F100
> Show
> this next weekend..........
>
> David M. Ackerschott
>
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:24:36 -0400
From: "David M. Ackerschott"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - F-100 Show

Good Morning, the north and south show is located in santa maria
california for the first time this year, it is this saturday and
sunday we have over 100 f1's and f100 already registered so we are
hoping for a great turn out, so come on up or down if you can

need any more info let me know
thanks ddavid





Gates, Markham wrote:
>
> > David
> >
> > Where is the F-100 show going to be? Can you send me any info?
> > TIA!
> >
> > Markham Gates
> >
> >
> >
> > sure am looking forward to the California North and South Ford F100
> > Show
> > this next weekend..........
> >
> > David M. Ackerschott
> >
> >
> >
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:57:38 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Re: perf-list-digest

Date sent: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:56:37 -0800
From: Alex
Subject: FTE Perf - Re: perf-list-digest

> I have a '79 F-250 Supercab w/ a C-6 and a 460, 2 wheel drive.......Can
> this truck be changed to 4 wheel drive....I have access to a '79 truck
> minus engine ? Alex Fairbanks, Alaska

They all can :-) Is the donor truck an extended cab? If so you can just swap
bodies, if not you will have a lot of cutting and welding to do :-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's "The Ex-Black Hole"
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's "The Black Hole"
78 LIncoln Continental, 460, C-6, 19.5' long! "The Future.." :-)
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hoooo!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 12:51:07 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - 429/460 intakes

the pad is tilited for the angle the engine sits in the vehicle.

- ----------
From: Mike Morton [SMTP:mmorto wgc.woodward.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 1998 11:36 AM
To: 'perf- list'
Subject: FTE Perf - 429/460 intakes

In the last week or so someone said you could turn the intake 180 degrees
front to back. It was to help even out the cooling from front to back. I
just glanced at one of mine setting on the shelf and noticed that the carb
mounting pad is at an angle.What is the reason for this? Does the engine set
slightly tilted in the vehicle? I am sure the carb sets level in my truck. I
guess my thought is that if you turn the manifold around and the engine is
tilted, will it mess up the floats in the carb or anything else? Also,
couldn't you only do this if you weren't concerned with emissions? Wouldn't
the EGR valve be interferring with the carb linkage? Just some thoughts as I
am kind of intrigued by the idea. It would certainly look different under
the hood.

Mike Morton
55 F100 - 460 w/C6

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 18:11:47 -0700
From: Dave Sturtze
Subject: FTE Perf - 99 V10

Anyone know of any web sites or companies that might have performance
chips , FIPK's , or cat backs for the 250 SD V10?
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 19:31:32 -0700
From: "George"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Rebuilding ????

Makes sense. I tried 429CJ heads and began learning a little about the 385
series heads. The CJs, designed purely for NASCAR and drag racing, are great
for rpm but DOVES or others of that run machined out for CJ valves perform
better on general applications. The last quote I heard, three years ago, for
machining DOVE to take CJ valves was $900. That included OEM spec valves,
Crane springs/keepers and no valve guide bushing installation.. $400 more
than a set of DOVE heads with all valves/springs replaced and bronze valve
guides. I'd expect the shop cost for doing the same thing to Cleveland
heads would be in that ballpark.

Tom Monroe's 'how to rebuild your FORD V-8 351C-351M-400-429-460' is my 385
engine bible. Some mistakes in the interchange (still think he did it to
hide the CJ heads) but it's all I need for an excellent reference guide.

George Miller



hold up, do not use the 4V heads unless you are going to be turning 8500
rpms! the 2V heads with the larger valves of the 4v installed is the way
to go. seen the flow charts. it's the truth.
as for the reference book-when i did my last BB stroker, i still used my
first rebuild reference book. they are priceless sometimes.

sleddog

- ----------
From: George[SMTP:maga55 ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Monday, August 24, 1998 9:19 PM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Rebuilding ????

Rebuilding an engine isn't that difficult It also provides an extra
measure
of satisfaction while increasing your tuning abilities - you know exactly
what's happening inside the engine.There are excellent books on the market
that will lead you step by step through the entire rebuilding process. I
used one to put my first 460 together and still consider that dog-eared
copy
my favorite reference.

I'm not a big fan of rebuilt short/long blocks from the production
rebuilders. I've had too many friends with horror stories about early wear
and failures. A pro builder is a different story but then you're getting
into some big labor bucks. I'd rebuild it using some good 4V or CJ heads
with the bigger valves and in the CJ's case, bigger ports, a decent cam,
some headers and a modern ignition system. It'll be a runner.

George Miller



Hello all i just finished my frame for my 1953 ford f-100 so now on to
the motor, i have a 351 cleveland i am wondering how hard it is to
rebuild it??? i have never taken an engine apart before so i was kind of
wondering if any one could give me some pointers, the motor ran fine
when it was in the truck it smoked a little, it have a 2 barrel carb, so
i would also like to with this to a 4 barrel, i guess my question is is
it easier to rebuild or just go out and by a long block ??? any help
would be greatly appreciated.

sure am looking forward to the California North and South Ford F100 Show
this next weekend..........

thanks in a advance dddavid
1953 Ford F100 Sweet & Low
1996 Ford Contour
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:39:46 -0400
From: Brett ITT 41
Subject: FTE Perf - Compression ratio's

O.K. Now that I finally got a ruling from the powers that be on my CR
how do I go about raising it? The 2.3 4cyl. is now 157K miles old, stock
compression. Stock is supposed to be 8.1. They are going to let me run
9.5 CR. What is the eaisest way to accomplish this? Shave the heads?(how....


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