perf-list-digest Wednesday, August 19 1998 Volume 01 : Number 063



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

RE: FTE Perf - K&N Filters (FIPK)
Re: FTE Perf - K&N Filters (FIPK)
Re: FTE Perf - K&N Filters
FTE Perf - Running warm
RE: FTE Perf - Re: Temps
RE: FTE Perf - RE: temps
RE: FTE Perf - Running warm
RE: FTE Perf - K&N Filters (FIPK)
RE: FTE Perf - K&N Filters (FIPK)
RE: FTE Perf - Re: Temps
RE: FTE Perf - K&N Filters (FIPK)
RE: FTE Perf - K&N Filters (FIPK)
Re: FTE Perf - K&N Filters (FIPK)
RE: FTE Perf - Re: Temps
RE: FTE Perf - Re: Temps

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 07:29:18 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - K&N Filters (FIPK)

From: "Giddens, Scott"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - K&N Filters (FIPK)
Date sent: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:58:46 -0600

> I believe using the oil as an indicator of air filter effectiveness is not
> always a true indicator. There are too many variables that contribute to
> oil contamination

> I don't think there is that enough of a difference between
> filters to cause this.

I agree with this. The darkness of the oil has little to do with dirt from the air
but more to do with the way the engine runs, condition of the rings, moisture
in the air etc.. If the darkness was indeed the result of dirt laden air then I
wouldn't expect your engine to run very long :-) I ran a Triumph Spitfire for
60k miles with 1/4" mesh for filters before the cylinders wouldn't keep the
pistons straight anymore, that's NO filter at all and at very high speeds on the
highway (100 mph). That car never saw an easy trip anywhere and still lasted
60k miles with no filters but I don't recall noticing any drastic change in the
oil color :-)

> I have always heard from mechanics that if your oil
> isn't black, it ain't doing it's job keeping your motor clean. I don't
> necessarily agree with that also but then I don't work on engines for a
> living.

The oil does have a cleaning aspect but it's primary job is to put a protective
film on metal parts and cool the engine. The less restrictive filter may help
the engine to run leaner so less fuel is mixed with the oil who knows?
Personally I really like to see through my oil at 3k miles :-)

Greed is the Creed of the Breed
that did away with the Steed
Visteon, Delphi..........:-(

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 07:51:05 +0000
From: Garr&Pam
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - K&N Filters (FIPK)

MindEfx aol.com wrote:
>
> As far as my experience with the K&N filtercharger i had had nothing but good
> experience with them...and my times slips at the track have shown it. I have
> a '94 Lightning and the Filtercharger dropped a full tenth off my times. I
> didnt except to see that much of a difference. It isnt street legal, so make
> sure you save the stock air box for when inspections roll around though.
> Another thing that noticable decreased my times were underdrive pulleys. It
> basicly a smaller crank pulley that spins your acces. at a slower speed (ie.
> less drag). While it wasnt quite a full tenth in the quarter, my 0-60 times
> went down and it was quite noticable just cruising around town, much more low
> end punch.

Are you on the Lightning list?
Chris
94 Lightning #381
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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:12:18 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - K&N Filters

Date sent: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:58:43 -0500
From: "wild.bunch"
Subject: FTE Perf - K&N Filters

> What I haven't seen is whether a K&N will filter out smaller particles
> than a paper element will, or vice versa. That's the confidence I need
> before I'll trust my rings and bores to a K&N.

My experience with foam filters was on dirt bikes and what I learned from
that was bigger is better and paper sucks if there is any moisture in the area
but otherwise works ok. Some I saw in use had two layers of foam with
differnent densities which were reputed to keep the flow up but still trap
small particles. Seems like I saw something on a KN that used that scheme?

I'd love to see the micron range of the filters marked right on the box like
they do for industrial filters, wouldn't that be cool? :-)

Greed is the Creed of the Breed
that did away with the Steed
Visteon, Delphi..........:-(

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:37:26 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Running warm

Sleddog writes: >>on an electric h2o pump?

No. I was speaking of the original pump. Never mind. You ever get
confused????


Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:08:25 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Re: Temps

too bad mine is filled with concrete past those holes.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Steve & Rockette[SMTP:canzus seanet.com]
Sent: Monday, August 17, 1998 2:17 PM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Re: Temps


>ps-never understood why detroit engineers never run the top radiater hose
>to the back of the engine for curculation that more closely resembles
>"even" and "consistant" cooling.

The real trick would be to use the expansion plug holes for
cooling, some of the Japanese engines use 'em. I seem to
remember an American racer in the 50's using a flathead
Merc with a positive displacement pump for cooling into the
sides of the block, beating up on the Ferraries and Alfas on
the F1 circuit.........

Steve & Rockette...Lifes a beach
'63 F100 Longbox
'94 Taurus SHO - SWMBO's new car!!
and since most are listing all thier cars:
'72 Capri - Rockette's Toy, aka - SWMBO
'73 Capri - My Toy / Daily Driver
'73 MGB-GT Our Toy
'70 Torino GT My "New" Car


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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:11:36 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - RE: temps

a few minutes, but even then shutting it down and starting it up, the temp
goes up fast. will be in hartford for the big pulls today with what my be
too rich a jetting now. we'll see. i'll be competing against superstocks.

sleddog

- ----------
From: George[SMTP:maga55 ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Monday, August 17, 1998 10:51 PM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - RE: temps

I don't know what your staging times are in the pulls. Many of the circle
racers seem to like 250+ with non-synthetic degrees on the oil. If your
engine temp is at 230 after the pull I'd think the oil would be at least 20
degrees above that, probably more if you have to stage for any period of
time. Don't know about the start temp if you're idling at 190 or so.

George Miller


no. got one with 10" fan for tranny. not heating it up yet though
according to the temp gauge for the tranny. may when i know the temps of
the engine oil get a cooler and fan for that too.

sleddog

- ----------
From: George[SMTP:maga55 ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 1998 6:47 PM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - RE: temps

Are you running an oil cooler?

George Miller


not sure of the ideal. will eventually find out though, as i want to put
an oil temp gauge on it.

some day i hope to have gauges also for O2, head temp, exhaust temp,
manifold vacuum (need to tap a hole) and volts/amps and a memory tacj for
the wheel speed.

sleddog



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:18:34 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Running warm

every day. figured you didn't know i had an electric.
sleddog

- ----------
From: am14 chrysler.com[SMTP:am14 chrysler.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 8:37 AM
To: Perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Running warm

Sleddog writes: >>on an electric h2o pump?

No. I was speaking of the original pump. Never mind. You ever get
confused????


Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:41:01 -0600
From: "Giddens, Scott"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - K&N Filters (FIPK)

The FIPK is not street legal? Are you sure about this. I no longer have
the
instructions but I thought it said it was. They also gave me a sticker
to
put on it with an emissions statement that has an exclusion number
from the EPA or something like that.

I'm not saying it isn't true but I sure hope it isn't.

I also noticed the FIPK did not provide a separate PCV filter. They
run the line directly into the air filter. I have heard some discussion
that
some Ford trucks did not come with a separate PVC filter but mine did.

It is easy to remove, sits inside the bottom of the plenum (filter
housing),
and once removed it would be hard to notice that something is missing.

I am considering taking my PVC filter, or one that will fit inside the
FIPK,
and inserting it into the hole inside the FIPK, just like the stock
filter did
I picked up some talk on the late model F-150 list that this PVC filter
was not on their truck and maybe it is not important as long as it
terminates
inside a filter even if it is the same filter used for the incoming air.

It may not be important but it could stop the engine oil from clogging
my
K&N FIPK prematurely or maybe the added oil will help the FIPK keep
dirt out. Any comments?


Scott

> -----Original Message-----
> From: MindEfx aol.com [SMTP:MindEfx aol.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 17, 1998 6:44 PM
> To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE Perf - K&N Filters (FIPK)
>
> As far as my experience with the K&N filtercharger i had had nothing
> but good
> experience with them...It isnt street legal, so make
> sure you save the stock air box for when inspections roll around
> though.
>
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:57:32 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - K&N Filters (FIPK)

From: "Giddens, Scott"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - K&N Filters (FIPK)
Date sent: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:41:01 -0600

> It may not be important but it could stop the engine oil from clogging my
> K&N FIPK prematurely or maybe the added oil will help the FIPK keep dirt
> out. Any comments?

If you are getting oil in the air cleaner from the PCV hose then you have
some blow by (bad rings) overcoming the ventilation system, pressureizing it
which pushes more oil into the line or the PCV valve is bad.

Foam filters need a very light coating of oil, oiled all the way through but not
dripping wet with it to work properly. Paper filters die a quick death if oil
gets on them but foam will clog up too if you get too much on them.

Greed is the Creed of the Breed
that did away with the Steed
Visteon, Delphi..........:-(

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:09:04 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Re: Temps

From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Re: Temps
Date sent: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:47:22 -0400

> i myself can't see how when an engine gets hot there could be anything
> even remotely close to "even" cooling. the water enters the block and
> exits in front, with bottom to top circulation.

If I understand it right the coolant flows from the bottom of the radiator
(which is always open to the block) to the block to the heads and back to the
radiator via the top hose. what this does is create a convection current in the
engine even without the water pump so the pump doesn't have to work very
hard. Since all the water jacket areas are open vertically to the heads and the
heads are open to the intake manifold there should be vertical as well as
horrizontal flow all along the block unless some #$$%%$# filled up some of
the jacket with some immovable material of course :-)

Since the imputus will be closer to the pump the rear of the block won't see
as much activity but the convection current helps there. Not sure how
running a line to the front cross over would help except to make the path a
bit larger to the front..........gosh, that might actually work depending on
exactly where the water pump gets it's return input for the top of the radiator.
:-) On the 460 that would be the front of the intake manifold.........Duhhhhh!
Making more sense all the time :-) Going to need a pretty big line though,
maybe 1" or so eh?

Greed is the Creed of the Breed
that did away with the Steed
Visteon, Delphi..........:-(

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 11:19:47 -0600
From: "Giddens, Scott"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - K&N Filters (FIPK)

I'm sorry, I don't have any blow by. I knew right after I sent this post
someone would think I had blow by if I was getting oil in my filter
housing.
I just get the usual light oil film on the PVC filter. Are you saying
because of this I don't need this filter?

Scott

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary, 78 BBB [SMTP:gpeters3 ford.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 6:58 AM
> To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: RE: FTE Perf - K&N Filters (FIPK)
>
> From: "Giddens, Scott"
> Subject: RE: FTE Perf - K&N Filters (FIPK)
> Date sent: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:41:01 -0600
>
> > It may not be important but it could stop the engine oil from
> clogging my
> > K&N FIPK prematurely or maybe the added oil will help the FIPK keep
> dirt
> > out. Any comments?
>
> If you are getting oil in the air cleaner from the PCV hose then you
> have
> some blow by (bad rings) overcoming the ventilation system,
> pressureizing it
> which pushes more oil into the line or the PCV valve is bad.
>
> Foam filters need a very light coating of oil, oiled all the way
> through but not
> dripping wet with it to work properly. Paper filters die a quick
> death if oil
> gets on them but foam will clog up too if you get too much on them.
>
> Greed is the Creed of the Breed
> that did away with the Steed
> Visteon, Delphi..........:-(
>
> -- Gary --
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:30:31 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - K&N Filters (FIPK)

From: "Giddens, Scott"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - K&N Filters (FIPK)
Date sent: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 11:19:47 -0600

> I'm sorry, I don't have any blow by. I knew right after I sent this post
> someone would think I had blow by if I was getting oil in my filter
> housing. I just get the usual light oil film on the PVC filter. Are you
> saying because of this I don't need this filter?

If you mean the little fiber job that slips into the slot inside the filter housing,
I'd keep it myself. Remember the system pulls air FROM the air filter
housing into the crank case through the PCV valve which is hooked into the
manifold. Unless your engine is producing excessive pressure in the crank
case, no oil should get on that filter except for a very small amount of splash
from the valve train which should be very minimal. The only things I can
think of that can do that are the PCV itself and blow by.

In any case that filter filters the air coming INTO the engine crank case so the
more filtering you can get the safer you will be. The air cleaner housing
contains dirty air, not clean unless you install the inlet into the inner portion
but then I'm not sure what that would do to the PCV valve balance. I've
thought of this myself since it would guarantee very clean air but since the
pressure in that area of the air cleaner is lower than ambient it could change
the operation of the PCV, not sure?

Greed is the Creed of the Breed
that did away with the Steed
Visteon, Delphi..........:-(

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:48:57 EDT
From: MindEfx aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - K&N Filters (FIPK)

Yeah..i got the K&N Aircharger kit and it said all over the box it wasnt legal
for street use because it doesnt use the factory airbox and by-pass emissions
equiupment
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:34:43 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Re: Temps

on a freinds non ford, made a big difference with 3/8 lin eon each side.
sleddog

- ----------
From: Gary, 78 BBB[SMTP:gpeters3 ford.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 9:09 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Re: Temps

From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Re: Temps
Date sent: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:47:22 -0400

> i myself can't see how when an engine gets hot there could be anything
> even remotely close to "even" cooling. the water enters the block and
> exits in front, with bottom to top circulation.

If I understand it right the coolant flows from the bottom of the radiator
(which is always open to the block) to the block to the heads and back to the
radiator via the top hose. what this does is create a convection current in the
engine even without the water pump so the pump doesn't have to work very
hard. Since all the water jacket areas are open vertically to the heads and the
heads are open to the intake manifold there should be vertical as well as
horrizontal flow all along the block unless some #$$%%$# filled up some of
the jacket with some immovable material of course :-)

Since the imputus will be closer to the pump the rear of the block won't see
as much activity but the convection current helps there. Not sure how
running a line to the front cross over would help except to make the path a
bit larger to the front..........gosh, that might actually work depending on
exactly where the water pump gets it's return input for the top of the radiator.
:-) On the 460 that would be the front of the intake manifold.........Duhhhhh!
Making more sense all the time :-) Going to need a pretty big line though,
maybe 1" or so eh?

Greed is the Creed of the Breed
that did away with the Steed
Visteon, Delphi..........:-(

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:41:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve & Rockette
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Re: Temps

At 10:08 AM 18/8/98 -0400, you wrote:....

---

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