perf-list-digest Tuesday, July 21 1998 Volume 01 : Number 036



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

Re: FTE Perf - Gary's opinions!
Re: FTE Perf - Gary's opinions! In a NUTshell
Re: FTE Perf - Beating up a bronco on a budget
RE: FTE Perf - Beating up a bronco on a budget
Re: FTE Perf - Cylinder Head Intake Ports/Runners
RE: FTE Perf - Beating up a bronco on a budget
RE: FTE Perf - The Aerodynamics of Golfballs & Intake Runners
RE: FTE Perf - My last words-D44 going south on someone.
RE: FTE Perf - The Aerodynamics of Golfballs & Intake Runners
FTE Perf - Race truck update (a little long)
Re: FTE Perf - The Aerodynamics of Golfballs & Intake Runners

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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:29:00 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Gary's opinions!

> From: "Chris Samuel"
> Subject: FTE Perf - Gary's opinions!
> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 18:07:16 -0700

> ->"The 460 makes it's power with no fancy parts and a junk yard 460
> will eat a ->fresh 400 all day long power and torque wise."
>
> You are talk'en trash here Bro' and I've heard it all before!
> Bad case of Big Henry Envy!
> There needs to be a 12 step program for this kind of crap!
>
> of the remaining running tired old 460's that only had a factory
> rating of 200 to 300 HP after about 73 or so (figuring that the hot
> factory engines are long gone). That such an engine just takes some
> Gas and Oil and it will make 400 BHP.

My whole point here is you can't argue with cubes. A stock 460 will
eat a stock 400 that's all I meant and that's all I said as far as I
know. A stock 400 doesn't make 400 hp either as far as I know? Did
I actually say the 460 had 400 Hp, if I did I apologize (must have
been on a roll) There is no cheaper way to get performance than to
bolt in a used but usable 460. You can build a 400 to match it but
not for that price.

If 150# makes that much differance then a passenger will completely
throw off your wheeling as well right? So if you go by yourself you
will have better luck than with a passenger on the same trial right?
If weight is really that important then a stroker 302 would probably
be an even better choice, after all how much power do you really need
to climb hills in low/low? If you really want to optimise it use
lower gears, smaller engines, bigger axles etc. but then you can just
go get an FJ-40 right?

I guess we all have our special priorities for wheeling and there is
no perfect wheeler for "all" situations so we have to set priorities.
I can't see how the engine made that much differance but I won't call
anyone a lier, especially since I haven't made that test myself so I
give you that it did what you say, I'm just not sure we haven't
overlooked something in the equation?? OTOH we all know how agile
and effective the little FJ-40's are and even Samuris so obviously
total raw power isn't everything but it sure is fun :-)



78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hooo!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:40:43 -0400
From: "John Miller"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Gary's opinions! In a NUTshell

I was always taught and firmly believe ;

"there is no substitute for cubic inches"
and
" CUBIC MONEY "

John Miller, FoMoCoNUT Gibralter.net
96 F-350 Reg Cab XLT, 4x4, 460 w/ A4OD, My Baby "Baloo"
75 F-100 Reg Cab Ranger, 2wd, 360, C6, Daily Driver "Lucy"
and "always" looking ! ! !
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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:30:21 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Beating up a bronco on a budget

> From: "Darryl A. Regan"
> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 23:27:27 -0700
> Subject: Re: FTE Perf - My last words on the subject, you can go on if you want!

> you about things they break while wheeling. Still have yet to hear
> about a D44 going south on someone. > >

> You sound a little upset. All i said was that the 460 weighs 145
> pounds more.. give or take a few pounds and that the D44 can handle
> this with ease.

I did a home truss job on mine but I don't normally "get air" with it
so it may never be tested but I don't see much advangage of the 60
over the 44 in that respect. The main advantage I see is the radial
strength of the axles to resist the torque of larger engines with
large tires. The tubing and spindles are similar in size and
strength although I'm sure the 60 is a bit stronger in that area too,
not saying there isn't some advantage there, just not the "principle"
advantage.

> Also dollar for dollar you will get alot more out
> of a 460 than a 351M. For example,, Edelbrock Performer intake for
> the 460 in the PAW catalog is $163.95 for the 351M-400 and $161.95
> for the 429-460. Isky cam is $84.95 for the 429-460 and $84.95 for
> the 351M-400.

It gets even better if you compare a swap to a rebuild.......of ANY
engine, even a I6. Pulling and installing the engine cancels out
since that has to be done by someone in any case so all that's left
are the actual swap parts compared to cost of rebuilding. Now if you
rebuild the swap engine then you are adding to the cost obviously :-)

I'm speaking from the standpoint of a person who wants to try some
things on a budget. My first 429 was old and beat up but it made my
truck go down the road for 5-6 months while I found a 460 and built
it up, again, on a budget. That 460 is still running after being in
two trucks and not well maintained. I once drove a 55 pontiac I got
for $50 for 2 months while I got my affairs in order so I could be a
normal person and buy a late model commisurate with my income and
sold it for $50 so there is more than one way to have a little fun
with your truck without it costing a lot of money as long as you can
do most of the work yourself :-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hooo!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:45:23 -0500
From: Sean Winters
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Beating up a bronco on a budget

- -------------You said...-------------------

I once drove a 55 pontiac I got
for $50 for 2 months while I got my affairs in order so I could be a
normal person and buy a late model commisurate with my income and
sold it for $50

- ----------->>> 9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hooo!


- ------------I say...-----------------------

Next time your affairs are out of whack, let me know. I can't stand to
see someone suffer with a lift like that. :^)
That has GOT to be the best tool in the box!

Sean Winters
swinters pritchettnet.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com/pictorial/big/1982_f150_1.html

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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:02:37 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Cylinder Head Intake Ports/Runners

Another spellchecker gone awry! Aren't computers wonderful.

- ----------
> From: sdelanty sonic.net
> To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Cylinder Head Intake Ports/Runners
> Date: Thursday, July 16, 1998 2:14 PM
>
>
> >Someone noted that the fuel/air is 'mixed' in the manifold phlegm. If
this
> >is true, then further turbulence wouldn't be required and smooth runners
> >would speed mixture delivery?
> >
> >George Miller
>
> Manifold phlegm? Is that something the motor coughs up when it
backfires
> thru the carb? (-:
>

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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:44:30 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Beating up a bronco on a budget

> From: Sean Winters
> Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Beating up a bronco on a budget
> Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:45:23 -0500

> I once drove a 55 pontiac I got
> for $50 for 2 months while I got my affairs in order so I could be a
> normal person and buy a late model commisurate with my income and
> sold it for $50
>
> ----------->>> 9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hooo!
>
> ------------I say...-----------------------
>
> Next time your affairs are out of whack, let me know. I can't stand
> to see someone suffer with a lift like that. :^) That has GOT to be
> the best tool in the box!

Sold the 55 pontiac not the late model :-) Just re-read that and you
may have taken it wrong :-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!
9000#, in ground vehicle lift, Woooo Hooo!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 11:05:38 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - The Aerodynamics of Golfballs & Intake Runners

that i was not told. another mailing list i asked about extrude honing and
surface finish and coatings. one member said that some are dimpled like
that. i have never seen it myself. but it does get me pondering.

is friction a problem, or mixture conrtrol, or mixture quality, does it
effect dry intakes the same as wet intakes?

too many questions, so little time.

sleddog

- ----------
From: George[SMTP:maga55 ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 1998 9:20 PM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - The Aerodynamics of Golfballs & Intake Runners

What application(s)? Drags, NASCAR, sprint, CART, pullers?

George Miller



i have heard now that some high priced racing intakes have a dimpled inner
surface. i am really starting to ponder this one now.

sleddog



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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 11:17:38 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - My last words-D44 going south on someone.

mine did, and in a grand fashion! not pulling either, happened from too
much offroad abuse during muddy/snowy winters. both main caps broke and
the carrier was in 2 pieces and the whole toren unit was just shattererd
bits of broken worm gears and stuff.

sleddog


- ----------
From: Darryl A. Regan[SMTP:dar6 jps.net]
Sent: Monday, July 20, 1998 2:27 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - My last words on the subject, you can go on if you
want!


I am also on the BigBroncos mailing list along with a couple of others on
this list (Hi gary!!)
Guys on the list don't mind telling you about things they break while
wheeling. Still have
yet to hear about a D44 going south on someone.


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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 18:49:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve & Rockette
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - The Aerodynamics of Golfballs & Intake Runners

>
>is friction a problem, or mixture conrtrol, or mixture quality, does it
>effect dry intakes the same as wet intakes?


From what I've been able to figure out it's a bit like laminar flow,
the rough surfaces cause eddys that smooth the flow a couple
of thousands off the surface, so the fuel/air mix stays as a mix, and
droplets don't hit the surfaces and stick to it.

You see, it *is* rocket science!!

Steve & Rockette...Lifes a beach
'63 F100 Longbox
'94 Taurus SHO - SWMBO's new car!!
and since most are listing all thier cars:
'72 Capri - Rockette's Toy, aka - SWMBO
'73 Capri - My Toy / Daily Driver
'73 MGB-GT Our Toy
'70 Torino GT My "New" Car


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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:50:14 -0400
From: Brett ITT 41
Subject: FTE Perf - Race truck update (a little long)

Well I debuted my '89 ranger this weekend. It was definitely a blast to
run on the road course. I was very surprised at how well I had the truck
suspension set up for my initial try. It cornered very well with only a
little understeer exiting the corners. I believe torquing my sway bars a
little more may correct that. The engine (2.3 4cyl. F.I.) however is
grossly under powered. It is basically still stock other than a set of
ceramicoat headers and a custom i.e... homemade cold air intake. I plan
on building the engine to the allowed specs over the winter but what can
I do now to help out on the top end? I was thinking of getting an
adjustable cam timing gear to play with until I actually swap the cam
and pistons out. Will this help put some more horses into the stock cam
profile. FYI The engine has 157k miles on it and the allowed engine mods
are a 400 duration cam, 1.59/1.89 valves, .045 overbore, lt. wt.
pistons, and balancing of all rotating parts. On a humorous note I
discovered how dependant I had become on Anti-lock brakes. First lap I
was coming down the first straight wide open about 95 mph hit the brakes
and did 2 complete 360's before the corner, I got it back under me
grabbed another gear and kept on going like nothing happened. I probably
didn't need a harness then as the suction in my seat wouldn't have let
me go anywhere. Well I ended 4th out of seven but a full 4 sec. behind
3rd place. I had a hell of allot of fun though.

Road racers can do it turning left and right.

gottago seeya bye
Brett ITT 41
Improved Touring Truck
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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 20:48:30 -0700
From: "George"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - The Aerodynamics of Golfballs & Intake Runners

And all those factors change when combined with different mechanical
openings/closings/sizes. Then batch quality of pump gas/air density
and............

George Miller



that i was not told. another mailing list i asked about extrude honing and
surface finish and coatings. one member said that some are dimpled like
that. i have never seen it myself. but it does get me pondering.

is friction a problem, or mixture conrtrol, or mixture quality, does it
effect dry intakes the same as wet intakes?

too many questions, so little time.

sleddog

- ----------
From: George[SMTP:maga55 ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 1998 9:20 PM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - The Aerodynamics of Golfballs & Intake Runners

What application(s)? Drags, NASCAR, sprint, CART, pullers?

George Miller


....


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