perf-list-digest Friday, July 10 1998 Volume 01 : Number 023



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Performance
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In this issue:

FTE Perf - Humid Weather Performance
Re: FTE Perf - Lincoln 9" rear with disc brakes
RE: FTE Perf - Alum. Driveshaft
RE: FTE Perf - best muffler?
FTE Perf - best muffler?
RE: FTE Perf - best muffler?
Re: FTE Perf - Valvez
Re: FTE Perf - best muffler?
RE: FTE Perf - Lincoln 9" rear with disc brakes
RE: FTE Perf - best muffler?
RE: FTE Perf - best muffler - best exhaust system
Re: FTE Perf - Lincoln 9" rear with disc brakes
RE: FTE Perf - best muffler?
RE: FTE Perf - best muffler - best exhaust system
RE: FTE Perf - 94 F-250 4wd performance/mileage

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Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 07:01:41 -0400
From: "Don & Teresa Neighbors"
Subject: FTE Perf - Humid Weather Performance

Kieth wrote: "Anyway, what effect does this drastic change in
humidity do to an engine. My 74 did not want to start or run worth a s***
today, actually, it hasn't run very well the last three days."
My '54 hasn't been enjoying the humidity to much either. The first thing
you need to do is get a dry rag, pop the distributor cap, and dry it out.
Moisture can condense inside the distributor redistribute the spark in
pretty unfavorable ways. You may also need to check the wire that runs to
the points and make sure the seal where the wire enters the distributor is
in good shape. If the spark plug wires are getting old, they can also be
affected by humidity. I've heard of a product called "Wire Drier" that can
be sprayed on the spark plug wires to displace the moisture, but I hear
spraying the wires with WD40 works too. I have never tried the last remedy,
because drying out the distributor cap is usually pretty effective. Be sure
to wipe down the outside of the cap while you are at it.
Hope this helps!

Don Neighbors
'54 F250 Named Grover

"Any dropped tool or part will automatically fall into the most
innaccesible part of the vehicle."

kyneighbors kih.net


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Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 07:06:35 -0700
From: "George"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Lincoln 9" rear with disc brakes

Hi gang ran across a nice Lincoln 9" rear end complete assembly with disc
brakes today at the boneyard for $175.00. Does this sound good? I don't
need it right now so I thought I would pass it on to everyone. If it's good
enough I just might buy it for safe keeping.... what do you all think? If
anyone needs it let me know privately and I'll give you the info...

John Miller, FoMoCoNUT Gibralter.net


With the disc brakes, it might be a 28 spliner. OK for lower hp but you
can't modify the tapered axles for width.

George Miller

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Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:02:44 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Alum. Driveshaft

it saves weight. that is all it does, and it is not a stronger driveshaft
necessarily. the advantage is that it takes more energy to
accelerate/decelerate rotating mass than it does non-rotating mass. saving
1 pound in the driveline is like saving more in the body. it increases
acceleration and deceleration and should make for a quicker revving engine,
even more then saving weight in the body/chassis/interior/etc. can't give
you a ratio, but the savings is ALOT more helpful on rotating parts.

what kind of racing?

check out some other types. i think the newer explorer has something like
carbon fiber driveshafts. not sure though.

the aluminum also cuts down on NVH. it won't last as long in severe
service though. aluminum has a short fatigue life and when it goes, it
lets loose completely, where as steel mat just keep bending before letting
go, giving a longer warning period of its coming demise.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Brett ITT 41[SMTP:bwallen bellsouth.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 1998 9:00 PM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE Perf - Alum. Driveshaft

First, thanks for all the responses on my last question on colder plugs.
Now, I am considering putting in an alum. shaft into my racing ranger.
The drive line shop wants $300 bucks for a custom made but I was
thinking that the aerostar van used a alum. shaft. Does anyone know the
length on a aerostar shaft? The dealers computer doesn't give the
length. I was figuring I could have it cut down to my 51 1/4" cheaper
than having one custom made. So all that said what sort of advantages
does an alum. shaft make? Other than weight reduction. How will it
affect accel. and stopping? I ask this because it was just allowed in
the rules this year and I am curios if it is worth the trouble. Again
Thank you all this is a great list.

gottago seeya bye

Brett ITT 41
(Improved touring truck)
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Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:12:38 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - best muffler?

ok, outflows a flowmaster.

would that be the 2 or 3 chamber flowmaster?

at what pressure drop was that measured? or, did you get your info from
dynomax or hot rod or your own experience?

as for being quieter, i have heard many big blocks breathing thru 3 chamber
flowmasters that idled quiet, made a little noise when the loud pedal
falls, and then quieted right back out as the rpms came up to the top end.
yes, actually sounded quit at WFO. turbo mufflers do not do that. that's
actually one thing against flowmaster i used to think- when i liked the
noise louder.

please, don't state opinion as fact, and if it is fact, give an example or
a resource for the information. i would be interested in a muffler that
can flow enough for my engine. only flowmaster and borla have ones that
appear to work so far. if the dynomax is that good, tell me where i can
see some *unbiased* tests. i always am looking for the best parts.

besides, a muffler is not always the most restrictive exhaust componant and
therefore a freer flowing louder muffler is not always a performance
improvement. every vehicle is its own case.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Mike Schwall[SMTP:mschwall texas.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 1998 9:20 PM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - best muffler?

At 10:12 AM 7/8/98 , Danny wrote:
>Anybody have a suggestion for muffler? I don't care about sound or that
>it's made from stainless steel or what gauge steel it's made from. I just
>want the best flowing muffler to help open up the exhaust. Right now, I'm
>thinking about a 3-chamber Flowmaster.
>Danny

Dynomax Super Turbo - no substitute - out flows a flowmaster and quieter.

IMHO,

Mike

_____________________________________________

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FORD FAN PAGE: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.fordfan.org

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Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:43:06 +0000
From: tfmf211 murphyfarms.com
Subject: FTE Perf - best muffler?

Sleddog,

What size pipes and which Borla muffler did you use? I'm going to have to
replace mine soon and have been looking at them. I was looking at a 2-1/2"
system. Most stuff I've looked at with Borla was 3" and up. Let me know
what your running.

Thanks,

-Ted
_____________
my borla mufflers have lasted for about 6 yrs now. even with the salty
roads
and the other hazards such as mud, dirt, rocks, etc.

they got a little louder as they "broke in", but have now stayed the same.
they do make noise though.

sleddog
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Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:10:17 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - best muffler?

currently i have the 2 1/2" in/out borlas hooked right on the end of the
headers. i had some pipe between previously but it didn't make a
difference in power that i noticed. hopefully one day i can get a full
exhaust finished as i want to run the pipes out the back. amazingly the
police never stopped me for that one. one day hopwfully before this coming
winter i'll have a full system and have the 77 back on the road, where it
belongs. but first i need to finish the new pull truck.

they hang down below the cab, and have gotton bashed more than once on
rocks when i used to wheel with it. the best borla's are too expensive,
and the cheaper ones work for anything that is not a race vehicle.

i used the normal borla turbo muffler 2.5 in and 2.5 out. about $90 i
think when i bought them. sound quality is still good (mind you for the
last 2+ years i haven't used it for anything other than pulling and an
occasional jaunt down the street.)

no rust or deteriation. only dents from rocks.

sleddog

- ----------
From: tfmf211 murphyfarms.com[SMTP:tfmf211 murphyfarms.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 09, 1998 6:43 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE Perf - best muffler?


Sleddog,

What size pipes and which Borla muffler did you use? I'm going to have to
replace mine soon and have been looking at them. I was looking at a 2-1/2"
system. Most stuff I've looked at with Borla was 3" and up. Let me know
what your running.

Thanks,

-Ted
_____________
my borla mufflers have lasted for about 6 yrs now. even with the salty
roads
and the other hazards such as mud, dirt, rocks, etc.

they got a little louder as they "broke in", but have now stayed the same.
they do make noise though.

sleddog
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 09:12:46 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Valvez

Trying to pawn Ti valves off on the wife in lieu of gold &
diamonds...hmmm...kind of gives new meaning to the term "sucking a valve"
which is probably what you'll be doing if you try.

- ----------
> From: Chris Samuel
> To: Perf-List
> Subject: FTE Perf - Valvez
> Date: Wednesday, July 08, 1998 11:30 PM
>



> Suppose that SWMBO would take Ti Valves instead?
> Someone else try it and let the rest of us know.
>

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 09:14:43 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - best muffler?

>>Anybody have a suggestion for muffler? I don't care about sound or that
>>it's made from stainless steel or what gauge steel it's made from. I just
>>want the best flowing muffler to help open up the exhaust. Right now, I'm
>>thinking about a 3-chamber Flowmaster.
>>Danny


>Dynomax Super Turbo - no substitute - out flows a flowmaster and quieter.
>
>IMHO,
>
>Mike

I use a pair of 2-1/2" Dynomax super turbos on my F100 and I like them
quite well. They are a little noisy in the 1900-2200 rpm range, but above
that they quiet right down. At freeway speeds You don't hear them.
They are a lot quieter than a 3-chamber blowmaster, a feature I like a lot
since I can usually get away with a lot more stuff if I don't attract too
much attention while I do it.. (-:

Had 'em on for 2-1/2 years now (41,000 miles) and no external signs of
rust yet... time will tell how long they last.

Dunno how well they flow. There's a graph on the side of the box that
shows how much better they flow than a 3-chamber flowmaster. As if
I'm really gonna trust an infomercial on the side of a box...

Seems like a good muffler so far.

Steve
Homepage: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty

"Light fuse and get away. Do not hold in hand.
Use only under close adult supervision.
For outdoor use only."

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 14:48:31 -0700
From: "Gates, Markham"
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - Lincoln 9" rear with disc brakes

How's this for comparison? I just got a quote from Currie Ent. on one
of their Ford 9" Posi rears, with TCI 4-bar brackets installed (just the
brackets, not the bars or coil-overs) and drum brakes... $1884 with
shipping. If I want their aluminum housing, it's $2298. OUCH! I think
$175 sounds pretty damn good.

Markham Gates
markham.gates boeing.com
55 Ford F-100

> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 01:16:50 -0400
> From: "John Miller"
> Subject: FTE Perf - Lincoln 9" rear with disc brakes
>
> Hi gang ran across a nice Lincoln 9" rear end complete assembly with
> disc
> brakes today at the boneyard for $175.00. Does this sound good? I
> don't
> need it right now so I thought I would pass it on to everyone. If it's
> good
> enough I just might buy it for safe keeping.... what do you all think?
> If
> anyone needs it let me know privately and I'll give you the info...
>
> John Miller, FoMoCoNUT Gibralter.net
> 96 F-350 Reg Cab XLT, 4x4, 460 w/ A4OD, My Baby "Baloo"
> 75 F-100 Reg Cab Ranger, 2wd, 360, C6, Daily Driver "Lucy"
> and "always" looking ! ! !
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>
> ------------------------------
>
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 17:53:16 -0500
From: Mike Schwall
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - best muffler?

At 09:12 AM 7/9/98 , you wrote:
>would that be the 2 or 3 chamber flowmaster?
>at what pressure drop was that measured? or, did you get your info from
>dynomax or hot rod or your own experience?


My mistake. I made a statement about what I learned a couple years ago,
but can't back it up with written test results or anything like that now.
Buy the muffer for $28 from Summit and put in on a flow bench.

>as for being quieter, i have heard many big blocks breathing thru 3 chamber
>flowmasters that idled quiet, made a little noise when the loud pedal
>falls, and then quieted right back out as the rpms came up to the top end.
> yes, actually sounded quit at WFO. turbo mufflers do not do that. that's
>actually one thing against flowmaster i used to think- when i liked the
>noise louder.

The Dynomax turbos are quiet when the throttle plates are closed or near
closed. Once you get serious with the go pedal, they sound real nice. I
can hear when the secondaries open on my Edelbrock 600 carb. in my truck.
When I get close to maxing out the cam (an unfortunate 4000 RPMs), the
exhaust sounds like a Winston Cup car - sounds even better when driving
down the highway with concrete K-rails on both sides of you. Of course the
amount of sound and type of sounds depends on the cam. The intake duration
of my cam at .050" is only a puny 204 degrees, but the exhaust duration is
216. You get a nice exhaust note.


>besides, a muffler is not always the most restrictive exhaust componant and
>therefore a freer flowing louder muffler is not always a performance
>improvement. every vehicle is its own case.

Yeap, thats true. Especially when the heads are stock smog heads with
thermactor provisions - can you say flow problem?

Mike


_____________________________________________

Email: mschwall texas.net or mike fordfan.org
Home Page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://mschwall.home.texas.net
FORD FAN PAGE: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.fordfan.org

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 21:34:32 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - best muffler - best exhaust system

didn't mean to sound like i think that post sounded after i read it. but
tell us what your experience is! we all like to listen to what people
know. if your experince is as simple as a muffler swap and a seat of the
pants feel please tell - if you worked in a speed shop and it was what some
of the customers said - do tell. i do have a superflow 100 flowbench. i
just haven't really felt that it would be worth the time to test these
things as the flowbench is really too small for even a set of restrictive
small block heads IMNSHO. maybe for mufflers it would work though.

i would like to one day build the best exhaust system. max power is
generally made with collector extensions from headers, open to atmosphere.
collector lengths of 16"-28" or so being normal from what i have seen.
if, from the collector, the systems "looks" like this even with a full
exhaust max power should still be made. in an article from david vizard
with dyno tests to support this there is more info.

using either a flowmaster type muffler mounted on the collector, or a
special expansion box (sized by vizard's test data), and then full exhaust
afterward with a second set of mufflers, either turbo (ala borla) or
flowmaster type. crossover tubes may be used at the expansion box
junction.

this type of system has been shown to work for 2,000 hp drag cars with less
than a 2% loss in power over a properly sized collector only. (most people
have too short of a collector - i know i do!)

david vizard's article was in drag racing monthly. at first it seemed to
me to be a bit off, but after really thinking about it i have come to the
conclusion that for race cars, and even street cars it should work. in
fact i think that it may increase most street vehicles output by a
oticeable amount. too bad noone sells the expansion boxes. you need to
make them yourself.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Mike Schwall[SMTP:mschwall texas.net]
Sent: Thursday, July 09, 1998 6:53 PM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - best muffler?

My mistake. I made a statement about what I learned a couple years ago,
but can't back it up with written test results or anything like that now.
Buy the muffer for $28 from Summit and put in on a flow bench.

>besides, a muffler is not always the most restrictive exhaust componant
and
>therefore a freer flowing louder muffler is not always a performance
>improvement. every vehicle is its own case.

Yeap, thats true. Especially when the heads are stock smog heads with
thermactor provisions - can you say flow problem?

Mike




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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 19:43:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve & Rockette
Subject: Re: FTE Perf - Lincoln 9" rear with disc brakes

At 01:16 AM 9/7/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi gang ran across a nice Lincoln 9" rear end complete assembly with disc
>brakes today at the boneyard for $175.00.

Thats a good deal, $250 is about the norm

Steve & Rockette...Lifes a beach
'63 F100 Longbox
'94 Taurus SHO - SWMBO's new car!!
and since most are listing all thier cars:
'72 Capri - Rockette's Toy, aka - SWMBO
'73 Capri - My Toy / Daily Driver
'73 MGB-GT Our Toy
'70 Torino GT My "New" Car


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 19:43:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve & Rockette
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - best muffler?

Fun facts to Know and tell:

Dynomax uses non pulsed flow numbers, ie: straight flow, to test their
mufflers. Flowmaster requires a pulsed flow, just like a real engine, to
get the correct flow capability out of their mufflers. So, the Dynomax is
going to appear to be a higher flowing muffler, BUT the Flowmaster
will start to scavenge the exaust gasses in a real vehicle, where the
Dynomax won't....

We found this out with a stock car on a chassis dyno, a couple of years
ago. Pretty cool, huh?

Steve & Rockette...Lifes a beach
'63 F100 Longbox
'94 Taurus SHO - SWMBO's new car!!
and since most are listing all thier cars:
'72 Capri - Rockette's Toy, aka - SWMBO
'73 Capri - My Toy / Daily Driver
'73 MGB-GT Our Toy
'70 Torino GT My "New" Car


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 22:53:01 -0500
From: Mike Schwall
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - best muffler - best exhaust system

At 08:34 PM 7/9/98 , you wrote:
>didn't mean to sound like i think that post sounded after i read it. but
>tell us what your experience is! we all like to listen to what people
>know. if your experince is as simple as a muffler swap and a seat of the
>pants feel please tell - if you worked in a speed shop and it was what some
>of the customers said - do tell. i do have a superflow 100 flowbench. i
>just haven't really felt that it would be worth the time to test these
>things as the flowbench is really too small for even a set of restrictive
>small block heads IMNSHO. maybe for mufflers it would work though.

No problem, I was expecting it - left the door wide open on that one. Two
years ago a friend and I were faced with the same question that started
this thread - "Which muffler is the best?" We looked in all the magazines
and saw all the typical ads which claimed "their" muffler was the best. It
was amusing to see that several mufflers claimed to be the best. So we
dropped some coin and bought several mufflers: Flowmaster 3 chamber,
Thrush, and the Dynomax turbo. We tried each muffler on the test vehicle -
an '82 F150 with a 351W with auto trans. The engine was not race prepped or
anything, just a basic stock engine with a mild cam (something like 218/218
duration - I don't remember the lift) and Edelbrock performer RPM, Holley
600 CFM w/vac secondaries, and (cheap) Headman headers. We "Y" 'd the
headers to make one exhaust pipe so we didn't have to buy two of each type
muffler. We used 3" pipe between the "Y" pipe and muffler, and the same
diameter pipe out the end of the muffler and had it bent to curve out
toward the side of the truck. We then went to the local drag strip (Alamo
Dragway) and ran two passes per muffler. The times were not that great to
begin with - high 16's. We averaged out the two passes then compared it
between the mufflers. There was no definite better muffler - all the times
were pretty close. The Flowmaster went faster then the thrush (not by
much) and the Dynomax and Flowmaster were pretty close. Wish I would have
kept the time slips. The Dynomax had shorter times than the Flowmaster
(discalimer: but not by much). So we figured the Dynomax design was a
little more efficient than the others and assumed they must flow better.
And they are a more streetable muffler (quiet when you want it and loud
when you need it).


Of course this was not the perfect test situation. We didn't check the
weather - no telling what the pressure was or humidity level. The wind
could have changed direction, the tire pressure could have changed, etc.


>i would like to one day build the best exhaust system. max power is
>generally made with collector extensions from headers, open to atmosphere.
> collector lengths of 16"-28" or so being normal from what i have seen.
> if, from the collector, the systems "looks" like this even with a full
>exhaust max power should still be made. in an article from david vizard
>with dyno tests to support this there is more info.
>
>using either a flowmaster type muffler mounted on the collector, or a
>special expansion box (sized by vizard's test data), and then full exhaust
>afterward with a second set of mufflers, either turbo (ala borla) or
>flowmaster type. crossover tubes may be used at the expansion box
>junction.
>this type of system has been shown to work for 2,000 hp drag cars with less
>than a 2% loss in power over a properly sized collector only. (most people
>have too short of a collector - i know i do!)


Why not a set of Try-Y headers (primary, secondary, collector design) and
then a nice big pipe (slightly bigger than the collector) then a crossover
pipe, then go into seperate banks of two mufflers in parallel (for a
total of four mufflers) then going to atmosphere. And have all pipes
including the headers wrapped.

Shhh...don't tell anyone.

Anyone built the better exhaust system? Inquiring minds want to know...

Mike

_____________________________________________

Email: mschwall texas.net or mike fordfan.org
Home Page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://mschwall.home.texas.net
FORD FAN PAGE: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.fordfan.org

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 22:44:31 -0700
From: mmaso gte.net
Subject: RE: FTE Perf - 94 F-250 4wd performance/mileage

Not really, I actually try to take it pretty easy. You should see the
numbers when I pull something! The K&N is going in next week for
sure. Was curious about any computer mods or other minor mods
that can be made to squeeze out some more mpg's and power.
Synthetic oil was on my list also. Thanks for any tips.


> i am amazed, do you have a real heavy foot? in my pentastar v10 (94 4x4)
> i get around 8-10 mpg when it runs right. and it gots a lot of power -
> enough to show some muscle cars the tailgate more than once. i do have a
> tendency to drive real hard. i use every bit of power a truck has whenever
> i can. even when towing. BTW, towing (almost 10,000 lbs trailer) my
> mileage doesn't change much unless i run a large number of steep hills, or
> alot of traffic in town (stop and go).
>
> when i put on the k&n on my truck it helped - about 1 mpg (almost 10%).
> ialso switched to synthetic motor oil. that also added about 1 mpg. but
> then the tranny crapped out and ever since the mileage dropped again.
>
> hope that gives you an idea. the k&n is expensive, but it lasts forever
> with proper care. and that alone may make it worth the money.
>
> sleddog
>
> ----------
> From: mmaso gte.net[SMTP:mmaso gte.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 11:54 PM
> To: perf-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE Perf - 94 F-250 4wd performance/mileage....


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