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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list perf-list); Sat, 25 Mar 2000 10:19:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 10:19:43 -0500 (EST) From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server To: perf-list digest users Reply-to: perf-list  ford-trucks.com Subject: perf-list Digest V2000 #31 Precedence: bulk ========================================================== Ford Truck Enthusiasts Performance, Hot-Rod and Custom Truck Mailing List Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with the words "unsubscribe perf-list" in the subject of the message. ========================================================== ------------------------------------ perf-list Digest Wed, 22 Mar 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 031 In This Issue: hard starting help Re: [Re: [Test and Autocross]] Thanks for OT help Re: hard starting help Re: hard starting help Re: hard starting help Re: hard starting help Rewiring my '64 C4 valve body Re: C4 valve body Re: Q-J leakdown Re: [Re: hard starting help] "unsubscribe perf- list" detonation problem ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joel Thomas" Subject: hard starting help Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 22:11:03 -0600 i have a 1984 351W with an edelbrock 600 manual choke carb,engine driven fuel pump. and after the truck sits for about 5 minutes after it has been driven and warmed up. it takes a lot of cranks to start it. I have tried it a lot of ways pumping no pumping holding foot to the floor and that just makes it flood out. cold starting is EXCELLENT. is there any suggestions. i have recently had the top off and adjusted the floats but to no avail any help appresciated. thanks, Joel Thomas ------------------------------ Date: 22 Mar 00 22:40:41 EST From: Tim Turner Subject: Re: [Re: [Test and Autocross]] "wish" > >>Damn I've got to find an old Capri or an Opel GT to build for auto-X.. I > >>thought I was over it but you've been a bad influence! ;-) > >> > >>Tim T > > Sorry Tim, but we gotta do what we gotta do :) Once bitten by the bug I guess it doesn't go away. Not your fault! > over and I think of the feel of that G laterally shoving me against the door, > then the console, then the door, then the console ... :) > You're one of those Neon types aren't you ? ;) Those ACR Neons were kinda fun to drive though! Nice little kick in the pants for a small 4 cylinder. > One of my friends hadn't seen > them run and he thought they looked something like a dog lifting its leg going > around the corners ... :) In my day it was the Rabbit GTIs that looked like that; one rear wheel up in the air and not turning at all if the driver was on the brake during the turn. Laughed my butt off the first few times I was working the course and saw it. > > The club around here is really REALLY strict on the rules stuff as far as who > can run, but the "cheating" is out of hand, lots of ESP guys should be CP, but > since they don't have welded in sub frame connectors they let them run ESP ... > no clue what that's all about but oh well, I'm just doin it for fun anyway :) Far be it from me to suggest anything out of class but sounds like time for some internal engine changes that dont get mentioned... I (barely) managed to cobble twin Webers on the old ride but the $$ people had close ratio trannies, lighter flywheels and 4.10 finals on the same cars so I too was resigned to just having fun trashing the car. Tim ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://webmail.netscape.com. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Mar 00 23:34:34 EST From: Tim Turner Subject: Thanks for OT help Many thanks to Buck Shoff for some help off list regarding some diesel questions. Like most of us he's well worth talking to and more than willing to help another FTE'er. If I could send a case of beer on-line it'd be on the way to him for his help. Tim ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://webmail.netscape.com. ------------------------------ From: "James Draughn" Subject: Re: hard starting help Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 00:07:56 -0800 Im not sure what kind of distributor you have, but that could be what it is. I know someone who has an old ford truck, im not sure of the year though, high 70s to early 80s, and he was having the exact same trouble, only worse, he couldint start it at all once it was warm. He would have to let it sit for about an hour after shutting off the engine. End's up that after the points or condenser or something in the distrubutor was expanding away from each other after warming up. He replaced the distributor and it started like a champ, every time. Just an idea... > > i have a 1984 351W with an edelbrock 600 manual choke carb,engine driven fuel pump. and after the truck sits for about 5 minutes after it has been driven and warmed up. it takes a lot of cranks to start it. I have tried it a lot of ways pumping no pumping holding foot to the floor and that just makes it flood out. > cold starting is EXCELLENT. > is there any suggestions. > i have recently had the top off and adjusted the floats but to no avail > any help appresciated. > > > thanks, > Joel Thomas > > ========================================================== > To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with > the words "unsubscribe perf-list" in the subject of the > message. > > ------------------------------ From: "Allen Collins" <7X30WATERS pimout7-int.prodigy.net> Subject: Re: hard starting help Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 07:53:08 -0600 Have you ever looked down the carb just after you shut off the engine? Make sure that the carb is not leaking fuel after shutdown. Had an old Q-jet do the same thing, replaced the floats and kited the carb. Still same thing found out that on the bottom of the main housing there are two protrusions (tech term?) they were leaking. In the kit they send some neoprene substance to put in there, I ended up with some epoxy. Best carb I ever had after that. Let us know what you find out. Allen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Thomas" To: "Ford truck" <80-96-list ford-trucks.com>; "Ford Performance" Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 10:11 PM Subject: [perf-list] hard starting help > > i have a 1984 351W with an edelbrock 600 manual choke carb,engine driven fuel pump. and after the truck sits for about 5 minutes after it has been driven and warmed up. it takes a lot of cranks to start it. I have tried it a lot of ways pumping no pumping holding foot to the floor and that just makes it flood out. > cold starting is EXCELLENT. > is there any suggestions. > i have recently had the top off and adjusted the floats but to no avail > any help appresciated. > > > thanks, > Joel Thomas > > ========================================================== > To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with > the words "unsubscribe perf-list" in the subject of the > message. > ------------------------------ From: "wish" Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 15:20:20 GMT Subject: Re: hard starting help >i have a 1984 351W with an edelbrock 600 manual choke carb,engine driven fuel pump. and after the truck sits for about 5 minutes after it has been driven and warmed up. it takes a lot of cranks to start it. I have tried it a lot of ways pumping no pumping holding foot to the floor and that just makes it flood out. Well since your vehicle is a duraspark vehicle, its likely not the points/condensor stuff, also that would probably show up while it was running too ... have you checked the carb to see if its getting gas? This sounds like a vapor lock problem. After you shut it off the carb heats up a bit (and the fuel line possibly), suddenly its all vapor and no fuel and you have to wait for it to pump cool gas from the tank again ... This could be a symptom of a weak fuel pump, or just too much engine compartment heat ... you can probably check it by pulling the air filter off and squirting the carb a couple times, if you see fuel, then its likely getting enough, but if nothing comes out, then its probably vapor locked ... does that sound right to anyone else ? (doesn't seem quite right to me, but can't put my finger on it right now..) Just my $.02 wish 96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L 73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish Ford Truck Enthusiasts http://www.ford-trucks.com ------------------------------ From: "Brad DeFore" Subject: Re: hard starting help Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:34:10 -0500 Just my 2 cents worth, Have you checked the timing? To far advanced will do the same thing. This has happened to me and others I know of, just back it off a little and it cleared right up. Brad D > i have a 1984 351W with an edelbrock 600 manual choke carb,engine driven fuel pump. and after the truck sits for about 5 minutes after it has been driven and warmed up. it takes a lot of cranks to start it. I have tried it a lot of ways pumping no pumping holding foot to the floor and that just makes it flood out. > cold starting is EXCELLENT. > is there any suggestions. > i have recently had the top off and adjusted the floats but to no avail > any help appresciated. > > > thanks, > Joel Thomas ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 07:49:00 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Subject: Rewiring my '64 Does anyone have any experience with totally re-wiring an older model truck with a wiring harness like those Painless Wiring and other companies sell? My '64 F100 is a combination of the original '64 (with all the resistor wire removed) and '76 under-hood harness (electronic ignition for my 1970 351W) and modifications made to accommodate gauges, tach, radio, etc... and I am using a steering column out of a 1976 Maverick that has the ignition key in the column (yes, I do carry a fire extinguisher with me). I just want to rip everything under the dash out and start over... with enough circuits for AC, power windows, door locks, electric fan, etc.. Bill in Mobile '64 F100 Shortbox ('70 351W/'76 C4) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com Subject: C4 valve body Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 13:11:08 -0500 Bad Brian writes: >>Can anyone tell me what C-4 vehicle I should order this part for that will make it pull properly? I will be adding a B&M shift kit to the body when i get it new as well.<< Any of the "Performance" packaged vehicles should be OK. They shifted a bit firmer than the mushy family sedans. Also the trucks shifted fairly firm. Do as you like, but no way would I be buying a "New" valve body.. I'd get one out of a junker and build it as I wanted it using, as you said, a kit from my favorite manufacturer..There are all kinds of books that gives exploded views of the valve body, so it isn't like you wouldn't have the abilities to know if you had assembled it right or not. Also the manufactuer of the kit probably has a "Tech" line and will help you with other mods to the valve body if you ask..Why buy new, when you're gonna put a kit in it anyway?? JMHO!!! Azie Magnusson Ardmore, Al ------------------------------ From: "Bad Brian" Subject: Re: C4 valve body Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:42:57 PST Thanks for the info Azie. Danny had one lying around with a kit already in and less then 200 miles. It was in an older truck I think he said. He is shipping it out to me. Many thanks to him. And i will be getting a book on it to be sure. I will not pull this one down unless it turns out to be bad. Which i doubt. I will in fact take my old one apart and check to see what went wrong. I REALLY dont want to pull that monster again. Once again the FTE lists pulls through. Brian Alexander City, AL http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www2.webshoppe.net/users/briana/pictures.htm >Any of the "Performance" packaged vehicles should be OK. They shifted a >bit firmer than the mushy family sedans. Also the trucks shifted fairly >firm. > >Do as you like, but no way would I be buying a "New" valve body.. I'd get >one out of a junker and build it as I wanted it using, as you said, a kit >from my favorite manufacturer..There are all kinds of books that gives >exploded views of the valve body, so it isn't like you wouldn't have the >abilities to know if you had assembled it right or not. Also the >manufactuer of the kit probably has a "Tech" line and will help you with >other mods to the valve body if you ask..Why buy new, when you're gonna put >a kit in it anyway?? JMHO!!Ð ______________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: 23 Mar 00 21:53:47 EST From: Tim Turner Subject: Re: Q-J leakdown "Allen Collins" <7X30WATERS pimout7-int.prodigy.net> wrote: > sure that the carb is not leaking fuel after shutdown. Had an old Q-jet do > the same thing, replaced the floats and kited the carb. Still same thing > found out that on the bottom of the main housing there are two protrusions > (tech term?) they were leaking. In the kit they send some neoprene > substance to put in there, I ended up with some epoxy. Best carb I ever had > after that. Let us know what you find out. Not uncommon for he old QJs, i learned it as 'main well plugs' but I'm sure there are lots of other names out there. I'd use an external float gauge on these and check the level after sitting overnight; epoxied a BUNCH of 'em in the eighties and early nineties and every one I rebuilt got it as well. Tim ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://webmail.netscape.com. ------------------------------ Date: 23 Mar 00 22:09:47 EST From: Tim Turner Subject: Re: [Re: hard starting help] "wish" > >i have a 1984 351W with an edelbrock 600 manual choke carb,engine driven fuel > pump. and after the truck sits for about 5 minutes after it has been driven > and warmed up. it takes a lot of cranks to start it. I have tried it a lot of > ways pumping no pumping holding foot to the floor and that just makes it flood > out. I'd tend to think ignition module but it's a guess. Many modules use a 'start' circuit that retards the timing during cranking for easier starting and if it's failing there's your problem. Try checking for good spark while it's in the no-start condition and let us know the results. > heat ... you can probably check it by pulling the air filter off and squirting > the carb a couple times, if you see fuel, then its likely getting enough, but > if nothing comes out, then its probably vapor locked ... does that sound right > to anyone else ? (doesn't seem quite right to me, but can't put my finger on > it right now..) Only flaw I could see would be in carbs with a design where the accelerator pump had it's own well rather than drawing directly from the main well.. in that scenario the pump would squirt with an empty float bowl. FWIW in 15+ years of 'making 'em run' there's been ONE case of actual vapor lock that I've seen on 'modern era' light vehicles but I deal mostly with stock configurations. Tim > > Just my $.02 > wish > > 96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L > 73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L > http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish > > Ford Truck Enthusiasts > http://www.ford-trucks.com > ========================================================== > To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with > the words "unsubscribe perf-list" in the subject of the > message. ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://webmail.netscape.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:51:15 -0500 From: Stephen Heidelberger Subject: "unsubscribe perf- list" Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server wrote: > ========================================================== > Ford Truck Enthusiasts Performance, Hot-Rod and Custom > Truck Mailing List > > Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com > > To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with > the words "unsubscribe perf-list" in the subject of the > message. > ========================================================== > > ------------------------------------ > perf-list Digest Tue, 21 Mar 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 030 > > In This Issue: > Re: [Test and Autocross] > C-4 Valve Body > Re: [Test and Autocross] > Re: [Test and Autocross] > Re: [Re: [Test and Autocross]] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: 21 Mar 00 22:49:54 EST > From: Tim Turner > Subject: Re: [Test and Autocross] > > "wish" > > Well for those of you who are into the twisty turny thing, we had our first > autocross > > of the season this year. It was snowy cold and wet, but it was an > autocross... > > Damn I've got to find an old Capri or an Opel GT to build for auto-X.. I > thought I was over it but you've been a bad influence! ;-) > > Tim T > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://webmail.netscape.com. > > ------------------------------ > > From: "Bad Brian" > Subject: C-4 Valve Body > Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 20:03:52 PST > > Hey guys, > > As some of you know I have been building an 87 Bronco II with a well built > 302/C-4. I got it running the past couple weeks and have run into one > problem. My valve body is not complete. Seems that a piece or two is > missing and the forward will not run properly. Reverse is strong as ever. > I am not real interested in putting used pieces in this thing and would like > to know what valve body will bolt in there properly. I prefer to get a new > complete already put together one that i can take apart and put together > again on my own so i know its right. I am thinking by the body that came > out it came out of a pinto originally. > > Can anyone tell me what C-4 vehicle I should order this part for that will > make it pull properly? I will be adding a B&M shift kit to the body when i > get it new as well. > > thanks everyone in advance > > Brian > > http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www2.webshoppe.net/users/briana/pictures.htm > > ______________________________________________________ > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:50:25 -0600 > From: Jordan Dean > Subject: Re: [Test and Autocross] > > At 10:49 PM 3/21/2000 -0500, you wrote: > >"wish" > > > Well for those of you who are into the twisty turny thing, we had our first > >autocross > > > of the season this year. It was snowy cold and wet, but it was an > >autocross... > > > >Damn I've got to find an old Capri or an Opel GT to build for auto-X.. I > >thought I was over it but you've been a bad influence! ;-) > > > >Tim T > cmon, build an explorer for auto-x, that's what I do :-) it's more fun > with fewer wheels on the ground through corners > -Jordan Dean > -A&M sports car club > -93 tipper > > ------------------------------ > > From: "wish" > Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:25:50 GMT > Subject: Re: [Test and Autocross] > > >>Damn I've got to find an old Capri or an Opel GT to build for auto-X.. I > >>thought I was over it but you've been a bad influence! ;-) > >> > >>Tim T > > Sorry Tim, but we gotta do what we gotta do :) In a few weeks is an all Ford > (or is that all Mustang?) event at the go-kart track, it should be a lot of > fun, no classes, just run what you brung :) I'm thinkin about trying to sneak > my truck in for a run just to see what happens, but then common sense takes > over and I think of the feel of that G laterally shoving me against the door, > then the console, then the door, then the console ... :) > > >cmon, build an explorer for auto-x, that's what I do :-) it's more fun > >with fewer wheels on the ground through corners > > You're one of those Neon types aren't you ? ;) One of my friends hadn't seen > them run and he thought they looked something like a dog lifting its leg going > around the corners ... :) > > The club around here is really REALLY strict on the rules stuff as far as who > can run, but the "cheating" is out of hand, lots of ESP guys should be CP, but > since they don't have welded in sub frame connectors they let them run ESP ... > no clue what that's all about but oh well, I'm just doin it for fun anyway :) > > Oh on my first message some of you may have noticed I put the wrong link in > for my run1.mpg it should read: > > http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/Racing/Images/Ankeny/run1.mpg > > Just my $.02 > wish > > 96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L > 73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L > http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish > > Ford Truck Enthusiasts > http://www.ford-trucks.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: 22 Mar 00 22:53:20 EST > From: Tim Turner > Subject: Re: [Re: [Test and Autocross]] > > Jordan Dean > > > cmon, build an explorer for auto-x, that's what I do :-) it's more fun > > with fewer wheels on the ground through corners > > Too many vehicles in need of high buck repairs already; would have to be an > old beater that I could use some existing HP parts laying around! Fun idea > though. > Tim > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://webmail.netscape.com. > > ------------------------------ > > End of perf-list Digest V2000 #30 > ********************************* > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Ford Truck Enthusiasts Performance, Hot-Rod and Custom > Truck List > > Send posts to perf-list ford-trucks.com > > If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing > list, send an email to: > > listar ford-trucks.com > > with the words "unsubscribe perf-list" in the subject of > the message. > > Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com > ---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: "Joel Thomas" Subject: detonation problem Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 09:21:13 -0600 I have a mallory unilite distributor on my 351W it has an edelbrock carb(600) the problem is detonation above 2500-2700 rpm in 3 and 4th gear. NOT in 2nd i can floor it with the secondaries opened in 2nd up to 4500rpm with no detonation but when the secondaries open in 3rd or 4th around 2500-2700 rpm it has a pinging sound(yes i am sure it is a pinging sound) it has NO egr or computer stuff on it just, fuel-fire-air-electricity to run it no computer stuff. i even took of the carbon canister and that question is the vent line that ran from the gas tank to the carbon canister what should i do with it should i plug it up or just leave it vented into the air??? also i have richened the jets in the secondaries by 1jet up. should i go to about 2or3 jets up. also the initial timiing is 10 BTDC and the total is only 34. |
