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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list perf-list); Sat, 25 Mar 2000 10:19:43 -0500 (EST)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 10:19:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server ford-trucks.com>
To: perf-list digest users ford-trucks.com>
Reply-to: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: perf-list Digest V2000 #31
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------------------------------------
perf-list Digest Wed, 22 Mar 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 031

In This Issue:
hard starting help
Re: [Re: [Test and Autocross]]
Thanks for OT help
Re: hard starting help
Re: hard starting help
Re: hard starting help
Re: hard starting help
Rewiring my '64
C4 valve body
Re: C4 valve body
Re: Q-J leakdown
Re: [Re: hard starting help]
"unsubscribe perf- list"
detonation problem

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Joel Thomas" prodigy.net>
Subject: hard starting help
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 22:11:03 -0600


i have a 1984 351W with an edelbrock 600 manual choke carb,engine driven fuel pump. and after the truck sits for about 5 minutes after it has been driven and warmed up. it takes a lot of cranks to start it. I have tried it a lot of ways pumping no pumping holding foot to the floor and that just makes it flood out.
cold starting is EXCELLENT.
is there any suggestions.
i have recently had the top off and adjusted the floats but to no avail
any help appresciated.


thanks,
Joel Thomas


------------------------------

Date: 22 Mar 00 22:40:41 EST
From: Tim Turner netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [Re: [Test and Autocross]]

"wish" ford-trucks.net> wrote:

> >>Damn I've got to find an old Capri or an Opel GT to build for auto-X.. I
> >>thought I was over it but you've been a bad influence! ;-)
> >>
> >>Tim T
>
> Sorry Tim, but we gotta do what we gotta do :)


Once bitten by the bug I guess it doesn't go away. Not your fault!

> over and I think of the feel of that G laterally shoving me against the
door,
> then the console, then the door, then the console ... :)



> You're one of those Neon types aren't you ? ;)

Those ACR Neons were kinda fun to drive though! Nice little kick in the
pants for a small 4 cylinder.

> One of my friends hadn't seen
> them run and he thought they looked something like a dog lifting its leg
going
> around the corners ... :)

In my day it was the Rabbit GTIs that looked like that; one rear wheel up in
the air and not turning at all if the driver was on the brake during the turn.
Laughed my butt off the first few times I was working the course and saw it.

>
> The club around here is really REALLY strict on the rules stuff as far as
who
> can run, but the "cheating" is out of hand, lots of ESP guys should be CP,
but
> since they don't have welded in sub frame connectors they let them run ESP
...
> no clue what that's all about but oh well, I'm just doin it for fun anyway
:)

Far be it from me to suggest anything out of class but sounds like time for
some internal engine changes that dont get mentioned... I (barely) managed to
cobble twin Webers on the old ride but the $$ people had close ratio trannies,
lighter flywheels and 4.10 finals on the same cars so I too was resigned to
just having fun trashing the car.

Tim


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------------------------------

Date: 22 Mar 00 23:34:34 EST
From: Tim Turner netscape.net>
Subject: Thanks for OT help


Many thanks to Buck Shoff for some help off list regarding some diesel
questions. Like most of us he's well worth talking to and more than willing
to help another FTE'er. If I could send a case of beer on-line it'd be on the
way to him for his help.

Tim

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------------------------------

From: "James Draughn" enol.com>
Subject: Re: hard starting help
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 00:07:56 -0800

Im not sure what kind of distributor you have, but that could be what it is.
I know someone who has an old ford truck, im not sure of the year though,
high 70s to early 80s, and he was having the exact same trouble, only worse,
he couldint start it at all once it was warm. He would have to let it sit
for about an hour after shutting off the engine. End's up that after the
points or condenser or something in the distrubutor was expanding away from
each other after warming up. He replaced the distributor and it started like
a champ, every time. Just an idea...

>
> i have a 1984 351W with an edelbrock 600 manual choke carb,engine driven
fuel pump. and after the truck sits for about 5 minutes after it has been
driven and warmed up. it takes a lot of cranks to start it. I have tried it
a lot of ways pumping no pumping holding foot to the floor and that just
makes it flood out.
> cold starting is EXCELLENT.
> is there any suggestions.
> i have recently had the top off and adjusted the floats but to no avail
> any help appresciated.
>
>
> thanks,
> Joel Thomas
>
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe perf-list" in the subject of the
> message.
>
>


------------------------------

From: "Allen Collins" <7X30WATERS pimout7-int.prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: hard starting help
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 07:53:08 -0600

Have you ever looked down the carb just after you shut off the engine? Make
sure that the carb is not leaking fuel after shutdown. Had an old Q-jet do
the same thing, replaced the floats and kited the carb. Still same thing
found out that on the bottom of the main housing there are two protrusions
(tech term?) they were leaking. In the kit they send some neoprene
substance to put in there, I ended up with some epoxy. Best carb I ever had
after that. Let us know what you find out.

Allen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Thomas" PRODIGY.NET>
To: "Ford truck" <80-96-list ford-trucks.com>; "Ford Performance"
ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 10:11 PM
Subject: [perf-list] hard starting help


>
> i have a 1984 351W with an edelbrock 600 manual choke carb,engine driven
fuel pump. and after the truck sits for about 5 minutes after it has been
driven and warmed up. it takes a lot of cranks to start it. I have tried it
a lot of ways pumping no pumping holding foot to the floor and that just
makes it flood out.
> cold starting is EXCELLENT.
> is there any suggestions.
> i have recently had the top off and adjusted the floats but to no avail
> any help appresciated.
>
>
> thanks,
> Joel Thomas
>
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe perf-list" in the subject of the
> message.
>


------------------------------

From: "wish" ford-trucks.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 15:20:20 GMT
Subject: Re: hard starting help

>i have a 1984 351W with an edelbrock 600 manual choke carb,engine driven fuel
pump. and after the truck sits for about 5 minutes after it has been driven
and warmed up. it takes a lot of cranks to start it. I have tried it a lot of
ways pumping no pumping holding foot to the floor and that just makes it flood
out.

Well since your vehicle is a duraspark vehicle, its likely not the points/condensor
stuff, also that would probably show up while it was running too ...

have you checked the carb to see if its getting gas? This sounds like a vapor
lock problem. After you shut it off the carb heats up a bit (and the fuel line
possibly), suddenly its all vapor and no fuel and you have to wait for it to
pump cool gas from the tank again ...

This could be a symptom of a weak fuel pump, or just too much engine compartment
heat ... you can probably check it by pulling the air filter off and squirting
the carb a couple times, if you see fuel, then its likely getting enough, but
if nothing comes out, then its probably vapor locked ... does that sound right
to anyone else ? (doesn't seem quite right to me, but can't put my finger on
it right now..)

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

From: "Brad DeFore" computerlogic.com>
Subject: Re: hard starting help
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:34:10 -0500

Just my 2 cents worth, Have you checked the timing? To far advanced will do
the same thing. This has happened to me and others I know of, just back it
off a little and it cleared right up.

Brad D

> i have a 1984 351W with an edelbrock 600 manual choke carb,engine driven
fuel pump. and after the truck sits for about 5 minutes after it has been
driven and warmed up. it takes a lot of cranks to start it. I have tried it
a lot of ways pumping no pumping holding foot to the floor and that just
makes it flood out.
> cold starting is EXCELLENT.
> is there any suggestions.
> i have recently had the top off and adjusted the floats but to no avail
> any help appresciated.
>
>
> thanks,
> Joel Thomas


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 07:49:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Bill yahoo.com>
Subject: Rewiring my '64

Does anyone have any experience with totally re-wiring an older model
truck with a wiring harness like those Painless Wiring and other
companies sell? My '64 F100 is a combination of the original '64 (with
all the resistor wire removed) and '76 under-hood harness (electronic
ignition for my 1970 351W) and modifications made to accommodate
gauges, tach, radio, etc... and I am using a steering column out of a
1976 Maverick that has the ignition key in the column (yes, I do carry
a fire extinguisher with me).

I just want to rip everything under the dash out and start over... with
enough circuits for AC, power windows, door locks, electric fan, etc..

Bill in Mobile
'64 F100 Shortbox ('70 351W/'76 C4)

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------------------------------

From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: C4 valve body
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 13:11:08 -0500

Bad Brian writes: >>Can anyone tell me what C-4 vehicle I should order
this part for that will
make it pull properly? I will be adding a B&M shift kit to the body when i
get it new as well.<<

Any of the "Performance" packaged vehicles should be OK. They shifted a
bit firmer than the mushy family sedans. Also the trucks shifted fairly
firm.

Do as you like, but no way would I be buying a "New" valve body.. I'd get
one out of a junker and build it as I wanted it using, as you said, a kit
from my favorite manufacturer..There are all kinds of books that gives
exploded views of the valve body, so it isn't like you wouldn't have the
abilities to know if you had assembled it right or not. Also the
manufactuer of the kit probably has a "Tech" line and will help you with
other mods to the valve body if you ask..Why buy new, when you're gonna put
a kit in it anyway?? JMHO!!!


Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al


------------------------------

From: "Bad Brian" hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: C4 valve body
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:42:57 PST



Thanks for the info Azie. Danny had one lying around with a kit already in
and less then 200 miles. It was in an older truck I think he said. He is
shipping it out to me. Many thanks to him. And i will be getting a book on
it to be sure. I will not pull this one down unless it turns out to be bad.
Which i doubt. I will in fact take my old one apart and check to see what
went wrong. I REALLY dont want to pull that monster again. Once again the
FTE lists pulls through.


Brian
Alexander City, AL
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www2.webshoppe.net/users/briana/pictures.htm




>Any of the "Performance" packaged vehicles should be OK. They shifted a
>bit firmer than the mushy family sedans. Also the trucks shifted fairly
>firm.
>
>Do as you like, but no way would I be buying a "New" valve body.. I'd get
>one out of a junker and build it as I wanted it using, as you said, a kit
>from my favorite manufacturer..There are all kinds of books that gives
>exploded views of the valve body, so it isn't like you wouldn't have the
>abilities to know if you had assembled it right or not. Also the
>manufactuer of the kit probably has a "Tech" line and will help you with
>other mods to the valve body if you ask..Why buy new, when you're gonna put
>a kit in it anyway?? JMHO!!
______________________________________________________


------------------------------

Date: 23 Mar 00 21:53:47 EST
From: Tim Turner netscape.net>
Subject: Re: Q-J leakdown

"Allen Collins" <7X30WATERS pimout7-int.prodigy.net> wrote:

> sure that the carb is not leaking fuel after shutdown. Had an old Q-jet do
> the same thing, replaced the floats and kited the carb. Still same thing
> found out that on the bottom of the main housing there are two protrusions
> (tech term?) they were leaking. In the kit they send some neoprene
> substance to put in there, I ended up with some epoxy. Best carb I ever
had
> after that. Let us know what you find out.

Not uncommon for he old QJs, i learned it as 'main well plugs' but I'm sure
there are lots of other names out there. I'd use an external float gauge on
these and check the level after sitting overnight; epoxied a BUNCH of 'em in
the eighties and early nineties and every one I rebuilt got it as well.

Tim

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------------------------------

Date: 23 Mar 00 22:09:47 EST
From: Tim Turner netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [Re: hard starting help]

"wish" ford-trucks.net> wrote:
> >i have a 1984 351W with an edelbrock 600 manual choke carb,engine driven
fuel
> pump. and after the truck sits for about 5 minutes after it has been driven
> and warmed up. it takes a lot of cranks to start it. I have tried it a lot
of
> ways pumping no pumping holding foot to the floor and that just makes it
flood
> out.

I'd tend to think ignition module but it's a guess. Many modules use a
'start' circuit that retards the timing during cranking for easier starting
and if it's failing there's your problem. Try checking for good spark while
it's in the no-start condition and let us know the results.

> heat ... you can probably check it by pulling the air filter off and
squirting
> the carb a couple times, if you see fuel, then its likely getting enough,
but
> if nothing comes out, then its probably vapor locked ... does that sound
right
> to anyone else ? (doesn't seem quite right to me, but can't put my finger
on
> it right now..)

Only flaw I could see would be in carbs with a design where the accelerator
pump had it's own well rather than drawing directly from the main well.. in
that scenario the pump would squirt with an empty float bowl. FWIW in 15+
years of 'making 'em run' there's been ONE case of actual vapor lock that I've
seen on 'modern era' light vehicles but I deal mostly with stock
configurations.

Tim
>
> Just my $.02
> wish
>
> 96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
> 73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish
>
> Ford Truck Enthusiasts
> http://www.ford-trucks.com
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe perf-list" in the subject of the
> message.


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:51:15 -0500
From: Stephen Heidelberger bluemarble.net>
Subject: "unsubscribe perf- list"



Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server wrote:

> ==========================================================
> Ford Truck Enthusiasts Performance, Hot-Rod and Custom
> Truck Mailing List
>
> Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com
>
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe perf-list" in the subject of the
> message.
> ==========================================================
>
> ------------------------------------
> perf-list Digest Tue, 21 Mar 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 030
>
> In This Issue:
> Re: [Test and Autocross]
> C-4 Valve Body
> Re: [Test and Autocross]
> Re: [Test and Autocross]
> Re: [Re: [Test and Autocross]]
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: 21 Mar 00 22:49:54 EST
> From: Tim Turner netscape.net>
> Subject: Re: [Test and Autocross]
>
> "wish" ford-trucks.net> wrote:
> > Well for those of you who are into the twisty turny thing, we had our first
> autocross
> > of the season this year. It was snowy cold and wet, but it was an
> autocross...
>
> Damn I've got to find an old Capri or an Opel GT to build for auto-X.. I
> thought I was over it but you've been a bad influence! ;-)
>
> Tim T
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://webmail.netscape.com.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: "Bad Brian" hotmail.com>
> Subject: C-4 Valve Body
> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 20:03:52 PST
>
> Hey guys,
>
> As some of you know I have been building an 87 Bronco II with a well built
> 302/C-4. I got it running the past couple weeks and have run into one
> problem. My valve body is not complete. Seems that a piece or two is
> missing and the forward will not run properly. Reverse is strong as ever.
> I am not real interested in putting used pieces in this thing and would like
> to know what valve body will bolt in there properly. I prefer to get a new
> complete already put together one that i can take apart and put together
> again on my own so i know its right. I am thinking by the body that came
> out it came out of a pinto originally.
>
> Can anyone tell me what C-4 vehicle I should order this part for that will
> make it pull properly? I will be adding a B&M shift kit to the body when i
> get it new as well.
>
> thanks everyone in advance
>
> Brian
>
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www2.webshoppe.net/users/briana/pictures.htm
>
> ______________________________________________________
> >
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:50:25 -0600
> From: Jordan Dean yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Test and Autocross]
>
> At 10:49 PM 3/21/2000 -0500, you wrote:
> >"wish" ford-trucks.net> wrote:
> > > Well for those of you who are into the twisty turny thing, we had our first
> >autocross
> > > of the season this year. It was snowy cold and wet, but it was an
> >autocross...
> >
> >Damn I've got to find an old Capri or an Opel GT to build for auto-X.. I
> >thought I was over it but you've been a bad influence! ;-)
> >
> >Tim T
> cmon, build an explorer for auto-x, that's what I do :-) it's more fun
> with fewer wheels on the ground through corners
> -Jordan Dean
> -A&M sports car club
> -93 tipper
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: "wish" ford-trucks.net>
> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:25:50 GMT
> Subject: Re: [Test and Autocross]
>
> >>Damn I've got to find an old Capri or an Opel GT to build for auto-X.. I
> >>thought I was over it but you've been a bad influence! ;-)
> >>
> >>Tim T
>
> Sorry Tim, but we gotta do what we gotta do :) In a few weeks is an all Ford
> (or is that all Mustang?) event at the go-kart track, it should be a lot of
> fun, no classes, just run what you brung :) I'm thinkin about trying to sneak
> my truck in for a run just to see what happens, but then common sense takes
> over and I think of the feel of that G laterally shoving me against the door,
> then the console, then the door, then the console ... :)
>
> >cmon, build an explorer for auto-x, that's what I do :-) it's more fun
> >with fewer wheels on the ground through corners
>
> You're one of those Neon types aren't you ? ;) One of my friends hadn't seen
> them run and he thought they looked something like a dog lifting its leg going
> around the corners ... :)
>
> The club around here is really REALLY strict on the rules stuff as far as who
> can run, but the "cheating" is out of hand, lots of ESP guys should be CP, but
> since they don't have welded in sub frame connectors they let them run ESP ...
> no clue what that's all about but oh well, I'm just doin it for fun anyway :)
>
> Oh on my first message some of you may have noticed I put the wrong link in
> for my run1.mpg it should read:
>
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/Racing/Images/Ankeny/run1.mpg
>
> Just my $.02
> wish
>
> 96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
> 73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish
>
> Ford Truck Enthusiasts
> http://www.ford-trucks.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 22 Mar 00 22:53:20 EST
> From: Tim Turner netscape.net>
> Subject: Re: [Re: [Test and Autocross]]
>
> Jordan Dean yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > cmon, build an explorer for auto-x, that's what I do :-) it's more fun
> > with fewer wheels on the ground through corners
>
> Too many vehicles in need of high buck repairs already; would have to be an
> old beater that I could use some existing HP parts laying around! Fun idea
> though.
> Tim
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://webmail.netscape.com.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of perf-list Digest V2000 #30
> *********************************
> ----------------------------------------------------------
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> Truck List
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> ----------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

From: "Joel Thomas" prodigy.net>
Subject: detonation problem
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 09:21:13 -0600


I have a mallory unilite distributor on my 351W
it has an edelbrock carb(600)
the problem is detonation above 2500-2700 rpm
in 3 and 4th gear. NOT in 2nd i can floor it with the secondaries
opened in 2nd up to 4500rpm with no detonation
but when the secondaries open in 3rd or 4th around 2500-2700 rpm
it has a pinging sound(yes i am sure it is a pinging sound)
it has NO egr or computer stuff on it just, fuel-fire-air-electricity
to run it no computer stuff.
i even took of the carbon canister and that question is the vent line that ran from the gas tank to the carbon canister what should i do with it should i plug it up or just leave it vented into the air???
also i have richened the jets in the secondaries by 1jet up.
should i go to about 2or3 jets up.
also the initial timiing is 10 BTDC and the total is only 34.