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perf-list Digest Tue, 07 Mar 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 021

In This Issue:
Re: Radiators and V8s
Engine Temps
Ford Truck Kills
1985 302
Re: 1985 302
Re: Engine Temps

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 01:26:40 +0100 (MET)
From: Bas van der Veer dds.nl>
Subject: Re: Radiators and V8s


> > 195 may not be fully open until you're over 200-205 degrees. That
> > temperature at itself is fine for the engine, but it's awful close to the
> > boiling point, so if you turn the engine off it may boil with hot
> > weather.
>
> A good cooling system should build pressure, this means your boiling point
> should sky rocket well over the 212F that water boils at, heck you can buy
> 200 or 205deg thermostats if you look around a bit ... also a good idea to

My engine has gotton to around 230 w/o boiling.. but it gets there pretty
easy if it's 210 already and you turn it off.

> check a new thermostat. I've never done it ironically, but its a good idea.

Well I have a fairly accurate gauge, if the weather outside is OK it's
always exactly at 180. Actually the motor only gets hot if it's 90+ deg
outside and you're standing still. I just got a 7 blade fan from the
wrecking yard, see if it helps any. It seems the heat just gets trapped
under the hood when youre standing still, hood gets so hot you need a rag
to open it :(

I did get a heavy duty thermostat, has a little bit bigger hole. Maybe
someday get high flow waterpump. Though I think with the hood off the
problem would be solved.

> Actually I recently switched to using Robert Shaw thermostats, had really
> good luck with them, just got their "performance" version which uses 3
> braces and balances the flow .. I don't care about that, what I care about
> is that between a guy I know and myself we ran the same one for 3.5 years
> with no problems and it sat on a shelf for 2 between him runnin it and me

Yeah you said that with our last periodical heat-problems-discussion :)

> runnin it ... I bought a new one with the engine rebuild and have had no
> problems with it, there's a few degrees of difference between warm and cold
> weather but it still sits steady during normal use ... and its never
> overheated on me either :)

That's what I need, hey I was thinking if the US gets rid of all their
niuclear power plants I may be able to pick up one of their cooling towers
for a pretty good price :)

> > Another simple test that merely tells you whetehr you have a thermostat
> > at all is to drive in cold weather, the top of the radiator should be
> > blistering hot and the bottom shoul be cool. Also you can remove the cap
> > with the system completely cooled down. The fluid should not flow (therm
> > closed) and as the engine warms up it should almost instantly start
> > flowing.
> >
>
> Uhm, this could also be a plugged radiator that causes the hot/cold combo
> ... seems like someone said once what the temp gradient was supposed to be

Well the top should always be hot, because the fluid doesn't really cool
down, it's almost the same temp as when it came from the pump. There must
really be no flow at all for the top to stay cool - in which case you
wouldn't even be able to drive the vehicle at all.

> across a radiator, but remember these bii's are running cross flow's, not
> the down flow that the older trucks have, so its a bit different than top to
> bottom I think ...

Yeah it may be a bit tougher to see the fluid flow but the basic
principle is the same.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 22:11:45 -0800
From: Adam McLaughlin jps.net>
Subject: Engine Temps

Okay, so help me understand this. If I have a brand new NAPA stock
thermostat in there, and a VERY good radiator, everything will be fine?
The engine will run normally if I have a 180 degree thermostat, even if
the water coming in from the radiator is maybe say 100 degrees F? This
is alright? No problems if the temperatures differ by something like
that?

I have an electric fan on there now with a thermostat controlled switch.
Works better than stock, but still alright.

I am only worried that the water coming in from the cold radiator might
be too cold for the engine, even if the thermostat is stock. Is this
possible, or am I worrying about nothing?

Adam


> Actually, in a fuel injected engine, its a not a good idea to
> run too low of a thermostat. The reason is because the engine
> may, at many times, run too cool.

This is true, and the reasons Ken uses are good ones, but the one that
swayed me the most was that your computer won't kick out of "warm up" or
its
cold loop mode, which means your engine is not running at its best
mixture
which may hurt power, but will definitely hurt mileage and engine life
...
running too rich all the time can cause the cylinder walls to be washed
of
their oil and scored pretty bad by the rings, also running a motor
colder
does cause the cylinders to wear faster anyway whether the mixture is
too
rich or not...

My recommendation is to put a 180deg thermostat in there with a
thermostatic
control for the electric fan, and possibly a manual override switch so
you
can turn the fan on early if you know you're going to be workin the
motor
hard ... but that's just me ..

Just my $.02
wish


------------------------------

From: "William S. Hart" iastate.edu>
Subject: Ford Truck Kills
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 09:55:43 -0600

Hey I ran across this on the web ...

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.rankinroad.com/03-05-00/UncleJessie-vs-BlackFirebird.mpg


And I was wondering if anyone knows anything about the truck ... its
obviously not stock ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish


------------------------------

From: "Vierra, William BGI SF" barclaysglobal.com>
Subject: 1985 302
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:05:40 -0800

Got a question about 1985 302's my reading indicates that all 302's produced
from 1985 on had roller cams. I am being told that truck 302's did not get
a roller cam until 1994.

My understanding was that in 1985 all 302's got fuel injection and a roller
cam and from that point on they were all basically high output motors.

Thanks.

------------------------------

From: "William S. Hart" iastate.edu>
Subject: Re: 1985 302
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 16:38:33 -0600

> Got a question about 1985 302's my reading indicates that all
> 302's produced
> from 1985 on had roller cams. I am being told that truck 302's
> did not get
> a roller cam until 1994.
>
> My understanding was that in 1985 all 302's got fuel injection
> and a roller
> cam and from that point on they were all basically high output motors.
>

Close ... in 86 they all went fuel injected, in 85 the 5spd stangs were
still carbbed ... and I think they may have been a roller block, in 86 the
cars went to all FI across the board, and the roller block was standard as
well (these were the wonderful swirl combustion heads and speed-density
injection) ...

The truck got FI in 87 when I think the rest of the cars and everyone became
FI except for a couple ... and the roller cams were sometime in the 90's for
the trucks ... some claim they actually ran roller blocks, but they didn't
have roller cams in them, but I can't comment on that area of things as I've
never torn into one ... at least not yet :)

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish


------------------------------

From: "James Steele" hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Temps
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 19:59:43 CST

Adam,
The whole purpose of the thermostat is to help bring the engine up to
operatiing temperature as soon as possible. A 180 degree thermostat should
not open until the water temperature reaches 180 degrees. Until the water
reaches that temperature, the thermostat stays closed and the water does NOT
circulate through the radiator. If you go out and start up your cold engine
and take off the radiator cap, you should not notice any activity, because
the water is not circulating. Once the thermostat opens, the water will
start to circulate and you will see the movement. By the way, some
radiators are so efficient that, with the thermostat removed the engine will
NEVER reach proper operating temperature in winter.

>>
>Okay, so help me understand this. If I have a brand new NAPA stock
>thermostat in there, and a VERY good radiator, everything will be fine?
>The engine will run normally if I have a 180 degree thermostat, even if
>the water coming in from the radiator is maybe say 100 degrees F? This
>is alright? No problems if the temperatures differ by something like
>that?
>

______________________________________________________


------------------------------

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