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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list perf-list); Tue, 07 Mar 2000 18:20:48 -0500 (EST)
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 18:20:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server ford-trucks.com>
To: perf-list digest users ford-trucks.com>
Reply-to: perf-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: perf-list Digest V2000 #20
Precedence: bulk

==========================================================
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------------------------------------
perf-list Digest Mon, 06 Mar 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 020

In This Issue:
Re: Radiators and V8s
C 6
Re: tranny question
please help
302 exhaust--Bronco II
Re: Radiators and V8s
Rear Ends and Red Line
Re: Radiators and V8s
Re: Radiators and V8s
Re: Radiators and V8s
Re: 302 exhaust--Bronco II
Re: please help
Re: C6 Bellhousing
Re: Radiators and V8s
Re: Radiators and V8s
Re: Radiators and V8s

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "William S. Hart" iastate.edu>
Subject: Re: Radiators and V8s
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 11:33:30 -0600

> Has anyone tried using a 4.0 Explorer radiator with a 302-V8?
>
I haven't, doesn't mean no one has ...


> The radiator for my 2.9 has taken a turn for the worse, and I need to
> replace it. The explorer 4.0 radiator makes a good swap. There are two
> kinds, one with a transmission cooler and one without. The price
> difference is about $55.
>
> Now, if I get the radiator with the transmission cooler, would this be
> 302-V8 friendly?
>

The tranny cooler is only necessary with an auto ... it wont' affect cooling
capacity appreciably ... if you have an auto then you need the cooler, if
you have a manual then you don't ... unless you want to rig it as an engine
oil cooler which I've heard of people doing ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish


------------------------------

From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: C 6
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 12:46:06 -0500

Paul R. writes: >>I have an opportunity to purchase a C6 tranny for my
truck (mines been
acting up for a while). The person wanting to sell the C6 said that it came
off of a 400 modified??? Will this bellhousing and bolt pattern fit a
460???
I figured isntead of researching why not ask all of you.<<

Yep ! ! ! It'll work.

Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al


------------------------------

From: docster webtv.net (Delvis Teruel Jr Teruel)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 11:45:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: tranny question

the 351/400m have the same bolt patern as the 429/460. hope that helps.
You could confirm this by calling a ford dealership or a tranny shop
too.

Lotsa love Da docster


------------------------------

From: "Joel Thomas" prodigy.net>
Subject: please help
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 22:45:30 -0600


I have a 351W,edelbrock 600
performer manifold
and stock otherwise engine
except mallory unilite and promaster coil
my problem is pinging at 2500rpm and over with the secondaries opened
i have messed with the metering on the carb and to no avail
i was told that it was the vacuum advance so i turned to all the way and and it was the same
i also turned it all the way in just to see and i pinged real bad from 1000rpm and up
so i limped back home to readjust:)
is there a kit i can buy to adjust the advance even more and am i on the right track????
it is the 47 series so i am told unilite distributor??
i don't have an advance timing light but can borrow to see what advace timing it is pulling. the guy at summit tech said it should be around 36 timing and 3200 rpm
is that right ????
please help
i am having problems with this.
thanks

Joel Thomas
Little Rock,AR


------------------------------

From: "Bad Brian" hotmail.com>
Subject: 302 exhaust--Bronco II
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 21:43:50 PST


Need some advice. Have a 302 in my 87 Bronco II with 2 flowmaster 2-1/2
mufflers. need a new exhaust sytem run from headers back. What should i do
to it? I have heard H pipe, X pipe, and no cross pipe. It will be used as
a well built daily driver. Here's what i have:


302 boroed .040 over
TRW forged flatops
A3B 2 valve heads (anyone know these heads valve size, OEM use)
Edel 600 performer carb.
edel perf. intake and cam
stock crank and rods
C-4 with shift kit


I plan on hitting the track simply for tune and trial. but want this to be
just a bad street truck. Edelbrock says to look for about 275 Hp and 310
torque before the tranny.




Any ideas?

______________________________________________________


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 21:56:54 -0800
From: Adam McLaughlin jps.net>
Subject: Re: Radiators and V8s

What if this works TOO well?

If I get the larger radiator in there, will I sacrifice engine life by running
it too cold? Is that possible? I am using an electric fan.

The only temperature guage that I have is the stock one. We all know that stock
guages aren't the best.. If I don't have any room to mount a temperature guage,
what could I do to make certain that I am not hurting my engine?

Adam

"William S. Hart" wrote:

> > Has anyone tried using a 4.0 Explorer radiator with a 302-V8?
> >
> I haven't, doesn't mean no one has ...
>
> > The radiator for my 2.9 has taken a turn for the worse, and I need to
> > replace it. The explorer 4.0 radiator makes a good swap. There are two
> > kinds, one with a transmission cooler and one without. The price
> > difference is about $55.
> >
> > Now, if I get the radiator with the transmission cooler, would this be
> > 302-V8 friendly?
> >
>
> The tranny cooler is only necessary with an auto ... it wont' affect cooling
> capacity appreciably ... if you have an auto then you need the cooler, if
> you have a manual then you don't ... unless you want to rig it as an engine
> oil cooler which I've heard of people doing ...
>
> Just my $.02
> wish
>
> 96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
> 73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish
>
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe perf-list" in the subject of the
> message.


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 22:08:00 -0800
From: Adam McLaughlin jps.net>
Subject: Rear Ends and Red Line

When a new engine is broken in, you usually run it for 2500 or so miles
on conventional oil before you switch it over to synthetic.

I just got my rear end re-geared, and now I want to drain the
conventional and put in Red Line gear oil. Does anyone know how many
miles I need to drive before I can do this swap?

Adam


------------------------------

From: "Bad Brian" hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Radiators and V8s
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 22:09:26 PST

someone correct me if i am wrong. First of all i ran a 160 and 195 temp.
thermostat in mine and they both ran fine. i dont think you have to worry
about the temp running too low. but others may have had different
experiences. never had any overcooling problems. i think i ran the 160 in
there the longest. i got 250 K out of it with the motor still like new when
sold


>What if this works TOO well?
>
>If I get the larger radiator in there, will I sacrifice engine life by
>running
>it too cold? Is that possible? I am using an electric fan.
>
>The only temperature guage that I have is the stock one. We all know that
>stock
>guages aren't the best.. If I don't have any room to mount a temperature
>guage,
>what could I do to make certain that I am not hurting my engine?
>
>Adam
>

______________________________________________________


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 08:15:45 -0500
From: Ken Payne ford-trucks.com>
Subject: Re: Radiators and V8s

At 10:09 PM 3/6/00 -0800, you wrote:
>someone correct me if i am wrong. First of all i ran a 160 and 195 temp. thermostat in mine and they both ran fine. i dont think you have to worry about the temp running too low. but others may have had different experiences. never had any overcooling problems. i think i ran the 160 in there the longest. i got 250 K out of it with the motor still like new when sold

Actually, in a fuel injected engine, its a not a good idea to
run too low of a thermostat. The reason is because the engine
may, at many times, run too cool. This causes it to run rich,
which not only is bad for the environment, but also can cause
failed emissions testing. Depending on your emissions test,
it may or may not effect the outcome, but certainly does effect
the air quality. Now, if you're off-road only, then its not a
problem.....



------------------------------

From: "William S. Hart" iastate.edu>
Subject: Re: Radiators and V8s
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 08:18:58 -0600

> Actually, in a fuel injected engine, its a not a good idea to
> run too low of a thermostat. The reason is because the engine
> may, at many times, run too cool.

This is true, and the reasons Ken uses are good ones, but the one that
swayed me the most was that your computer won't kick out of "warm up" or its
cold loop mode, which means your engine is not running at its best mixture
which may hurt power, but will definitely hurt mileage and engine life ...
running too rich all the time can cause the cylinder walls to be washed of
their oil and scored pretty bad by the rings, also running a motor colder
does cause the cylinders to wear faster anyway whether the mixture is too
rich or not...

My recommendation is to put a 180deg thermostat in there with a thermostatic
control for the electric fan, and possibly a manual override switch so you
can turn the fan on early if you know you're going to be workin the motor
hard ... but that's just me ..

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish


------------------------------

From: "William S. Hart" iastate.edu>
Subject: Re: 302 exhaust--Bronco II
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 08:22:42 -0600

> Any ideas?
>

Run the H or X whichever suits your fancy ... it'll help you out with your
low end torque and such ... wow this is the third thread I've seen on the
various boards about this, basically it comes down to low end torque is what
they all pretty much decided, you can match the pulses and such with an
appropriately placed X or H ... on the street I'm not sure there's much
difference in the effectiveness of an H vs. an X, but I haven't seen any
discussions on this yet, lots of people like the sound of the X better at
high revs, but its all a matter of personal taste I'm sure ...

I'm leaning towards an X on my truck, some Sanderson block hugger headers to
an x-pipe and a full exhaust that runs in the same fashion as the gen.1
Lightnings which is an over/under instead of side to side dual system ...



Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish


------------------------------

From: "William S. Hart" iastate.edu>
Subject: Re: please help
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 08:24:30 -0600

> I have a 351W,edelbrock 600
> performer manifold
> and stock otherwise engine
>

What year ? If it had EGR and you removed it I'll bet your mixture just
isn't quite right yet ... also what base timing are you running ? are you
setting it with the vaccuum advance disconnected ?

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish


------------------------------

From: "david" prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: C6 Bellhousing
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 09:40:16 -0000

yes
----- Original Message -----
From: OAI Electronics: Paul Rozell oaielectronics.com>
To: ford-trucks.com>; <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2000 4:51 PM
Subject: [perf-list] C6 Bellhousing


> Hi All,
> I have an opportunity to purchase a C6 tranny for my truck (mines been
> acting up for a while). The person wanting to sell the C6 said that it
came
> off of a 400 modified??? Will this bellhousing and bolt pattern fit a
460???
> I figured isntead of researching why not ask all of you.
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Paul Rozell
> 65 F100 460 C6
>
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe perf-list" in the subject of the
> message.
>


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 17:48:19 +0100 (MET)
From: Bas van der Veer dds.nl>
Subject: Re: Radiators and V8s


> What if this works TOO well?
>
> If I get the larger radiator in there, will I sacrifice engine life by running
> it too cold? Is that possible? I am using an electric fan.

That's why you have a thermostat! It should be on the water pump, meshed
between the WP housing and the little metal tube the rad hose slides
over. You can usually buy 160, 180, 195 deg. But my personal experience
is that they're not very accurate, and don' open instantly either. eg a
195 may not be fully open until you're over 200-205 degrees. That
temperature at itself is fine for the engine, but it's awful close to the
boiling point, so if you turn the engine off it may boil with hot
weather. That's why I use 180 instead. I wouldn't recommend running any
lower; I have seen a chart with engine wear compared to coolant temp.
200 deg was around the best, 180 was worse but not nearly as bad as 160.
It really increased exponentially with droppig temps.

>
> The only temperature guage that I have is the stock one. We all know that stock
> guages aren't the best.. If I don't have any room to mount a temperature guage,
> what could I do to make certain that I am not hurting my engine?

I suppose you could temporarily hook up a mechanical gauge, but they can
be quite a PITA to install. On my 351M the sensor is behind the
alternator bracket. You could use a T and hook up both, then mount the
mechanical somewhere under the hood. You can then keep an eye on both and
calibrate the stock gauge :)

Another simple test that merely tells you whetehr you have a thermostat
at all is to drive in cold weather, the top of the radiator should be
blistering hot and the bottom shoul be cool. Also you can remove the cap
with the system completely cooled down. The fluid should not flow (therm
closed) and as the engine warms up it should almost instantly start
flowing.


The transmission does not have a thermostat, still haven't found out
whether it can be damaged by overcooling. I have a big tranny cooler
because I go four wheeling and from time to time haul 6000lb trailers,
but while normal driving the transm oil pan is so cool it feels nice to
the touch. It doesn't seem to behave any different than it used to, so I
suppose it is fine.


------------------------------

From: "William S. Hart" iastate.edu>
Subject: Re: Radiators and V8s
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 11:11:40 -0600

> a
> 195 may not be fully open until you're over 200-205 degrees. That
> temperature at itself is fine for the engine, but it's awful close to the
> boiling point, so if you turn the engine off it may boil with hot
> weather.

A good cooling system should build pressure, this means your boiling point
should sky rocket well over the 212F that water boils at, heck you can buy
200 or 205deg thermostats if you look around a bit ... also a good idea to
check a new thermostat. I've never done it ironically, but its a good idea.
Actually I recently switched to using Robert Shaw thermostats, had really
good luck with them, just got their "performance" version which uses 3
braces and balances the flow .. I don't care about that, what I care about
is that between a guy I know and myself we ran the same one for 3.5 years
with no problems and it sat on a shelf for 2 between him runnin it and me
runnin it ... I bought a new one with the engine rebuild and have had no
problems with it, there's a few degrees of difference between warm and cold
weather but it still sits steady during normal use ... and its never
overheated on me either :)


> Another simple test that merely tells you whetehr you have a thermostat
> at all is to drive in cold weather, the top of the radiator should be
> blistering hot and the bottom shoul be cool. Also you can remove the cap
> with the system completely cooled down. The fluid should not flow (therm
> closed) and as the engine warms up it should almost instantly start
> flowing.
>

Uhm, this could also be a plugged radiator that causes the hot/cold combo
... seems like someone said once what the temp gradient was supposed to be
across a radiator, but remember these bii's are running cross flow's, not
the down flow that the older trucks have, so its a bit different than top to
bottom I think ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish


------------------------------

From: "James Steele" hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Radiators and V8s
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 17:21:03 CST



>If I get the larger radiator in there, will I sacrifice engine life by