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fordtrucks-digest DigestVolume 97 : Issue 144

Today's Topics:

Re: Edelbrock carb ["James A. Doty" ]
Re: Edelbrock carb ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Holley 4BBL questions - Me too : [William Sabers
Re: Holley 4BBL questions - Me too : ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
C-6 F250 '77 [AM14 chrysler.com ]
RE: 460 Maximum Compression Ratio? [Kevin Kemmerer ]
RE: 460 Maximum Compression Ratio? [Kevin Kemmerer ]
SOURCE FOR FORD PERFORMANCE [Kevin Kemmerer ]
Re: Edelbrock carb ["James A. Doty" ]
RE: 460 Maximum Compression Ratio? ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Holley problems - me too [John Strauss
Spreadbore carbs ["Donald R. Screen"
Re: Edelbrock carb [sdelanty sonic.net ]

Administrivia:

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 08:39:18 -0700
From: "James A. Doty"
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Edelbrock carb
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Steve,
> I recently purchased a 600 cfm Edelbrock (1406 model) and installed
>it on my 390 intake manifold. I ran into a problem hooking it up
>though. My 1974 F100 XLT Ranger uses rods instead of cables for the
>throttle and transmission kickdown. The original 4300 series Motorcraft
>carb had a transmission kickdown lever with adjusting screw on the side
>of the carb in addition to the standard throttle lever linkage. The new
>Edelbrock carb does not have the transmission kickdown lever as a part
>of the basic carb. So I purchased a Edelbrock carb Ford Adapter for
>auto transmissions. This add on linkage does have a transmission
>kickdown lever with adjusting screw. But the linkage is a full 2 inches
>further over from the original....ie. the throttle rod and transmission
>rod don't line up with the tacked on Ford adapter. Do you know of
>anyway to solve this problem? Scott Fort (from Edelbrock) told me the
>adapter was only for cable operated systems, not for push rod systems
>like mine..but he failed to mention what to do with the transmission
>kickdown rod without the adapter being present.

I just installed an Edelbrock 1406 on an Edelbrock intake manifold for a
Ford 351W w/o EGR.

I ran into the same problems. I had to purchase the Ford automatic
transmission
adaptor in order to connect my tranny kickdown. Also I wasn't able to connect
the throttle cable because it mounted too far away to allow the carb to be
in idle mode. We moved the throttle linkage mount forward and will drill out
one of the mount holes on the linkage hold down to make it a more permanant
fix.

I looked on the Edelbrock site, and Edelbrock sells an adaptor to make the
throttle linkage line up properly. They're at www.edelbrock.com.

The only other problems I had were that the heater hose pipe didn't have
enough clearance to be screwed into the intake maniford so we had to put
an extender on on and the coil will not mount to the Edelbrock intake manifold
so I have to find a new place to mount it. Currently my coil is hanging by
cable
ties just above the engine.

The engine started on the first try. All we did was adjust the warm engine
idle.

I hope to reset the timing this weekend.

I'm really impressed with how well the new carb and intake manifold work. I
was getting 5 to 6 mpg using the Ford 2v carb and manifold, and was getting
very little performance. The engine performs great now. I'll e-mail again
when I get through a couple of tanks of gas with the new mpg readings.

I also have tuned exhaust headers on the way. It'll be a couple more weeks
before I get them and perhaps another week or so before they're mounted.
I have a muffler that will take two 2.5 inch inputs and has a 3 inch output
that I will be using with the new headers. It should sound pretty cool.
======================
James A. Doty
NT Administrator
jamesd e-z.net
E-Z Net, Inc.
209 NE 120th. Ave., Suite B
Vancouver, WA 98684
(360) 260-1122
KI7EL

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:03:10 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Edelbrock carb
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 08:39:18 -0700
> From: "James A. Doty"
> Subject: Re: Edelbrock carb

> had to put an extender on on and the coil will not mount to the
> Edelbrock intake manifold so I have to find a new place to mount it.
> Currently my coil is hanging by cable ties just above the engine.

Doesn't the coil need to be grounded? My coil came loose on my Dura
Spark system and the engine died. Tightened the mount bolt up and
off we went :-)

-- Gary Peters --

(Mine)78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6
(Mine)78 Bronco, 4wd, 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
(Daughter's)92 Tempo
(Daughter's)92 T-Bird
(Wife's)94 T-Bird
(Son's)90 F-150, I6
(Son's)76 Blue Bird School bus
All mine to work on, maintain etc..

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:12:25 -0500 (CDT)
From: William Sabers
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Holley 4BBL questions - Me too :)
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Just a note on this posting that I saw...

>>-where you live, is it cool and damp in winter, or does it go below
>zero, or
>>is it sunny and hot all the time?

>I live in Texas - San Antonio to be exact - hot and dry most of the time
>with mild to cold winters

COLD WINTERS!.... in San Antonio????
man, what do you call winters in South Dakota if San Antonio is
"Cold"? You gotta road-trip up here to experience the true meaning of
cold....
I am sure anyone in North Dakota would have a hay-day with this one!

WSabers

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:18:20 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Holley 4BBL questions - Me too :)
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:12:25 -0500 (CDT)
> From: William Sabers
> Subject: Re: Holley 4BBL questions - Me too :)

> man, what do you call winters in South Dakota if San Antonio is
> "Cold"? You gotta road-trip up here to experience the true meaning

I wonder if they have block warmers hooked up to the parking meters
in San Antonio?

-- Gary Peters --

(Mine)78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6
(Mine)78 Bronco, 4wd, 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
(Daughter's)92 Tempo
(Daughter's)92 T-Bird
(Wife's)94 T-Bird
(Son's)90 F-150, I6
(Son's)76 Blue Bird School bus
All mine to work on, maintain etc..

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 97 12:54:11 EDT
From: AM14 chrysler.com
To: "FOMOCO Truck B/S list"
Subject: C-6 F250 '77
Message-ID:

Rodney Richeson
My 77 has a divorced transfercase (mounted seperately from the transmission,
and has a short driveshaft between the transmission and the transfercase).

If yours is the same case, you could use a car transmission (from the same
engine family) provided you could figure out how to mate the slipyoke type
driveshaft in cars to mate with the trucks driveshaft.

I would keep my driveshaft, and go to a salvage yard and get a driveshaft from
a car that had the transmission yoke on it and get a reputable machine shop to
cut it to length. Make sure the U-joint mounts are the correct size.

To change the output shaft in a C-6, you have to completely disassemble.
Might as well rebuild if thats the case.

Good luck either way.

WORKING TO BE THE BEST
Azie Magnusson
PROFS ID (AM14):E-Mail AM14 Chrysler.com
Tie Line (835-2578):Outside (205)464-2578

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:52:59 -0400
From: Kevin Kemmerer
To: "'fordtrucks lofcom.com'"
Subject: RE: 460 Maximum Compression Ratio?
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

so build it for midrange torque. 460 cubic inches will not fall on its =
face at 1500 rpm even with a cam that says it is for 2500 to 5500. the =
cam in my engine is a crower 22205 hyd grind. advertized duration is =
280/288. this cam allows the motor to spin up on the street, and gives =
low end grunt easily. it doesn't require any high doller items like =
roller rockers or stud girdles, (harland sharp sells rollers for 200 =
bucks.) i am using stock heads with exhaust work and small bowl work, =
dual plane intake and headers. and yes, on a previous engine i had a =
600 holley and and it spun to 6500 rpm with stock cast iron intake and =
similiar cam to the 22205 grind.

i really don't think your two goals are in conflict. all my 460's have =
had grunt down low, and pulled well into 5500 to 6500 range. my last =
motor won't rev quite as high, but makes torque in the 3000-5000 rpm =
range which i have never felt in a "small cube big block" before that =
easily makes up for the loss at the top. with a smaller stall speed, =
this motor would be a great heavy truck motor for racing or pulling a =
10,000# trailer, with a standard or auto trans (rv converter).

i don't know your tire size, but i run 33" mudders with 3.50 axle gears. =
this truck was quick and ran on the highway like a sports car on =
steriods.

sleddog


----------
From: Gary, 78 BBB[SMTP:gpeters3 ford.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 1997 9:13 AM
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: RE: 460 Maximum Compression Ratio?

> From: Kevin Kemmerer
> Subject: RE: 460 Maximum Compression Ratio?
> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:53:47 -0400

>> My advise to the fellow that is attempting to build an every day
>> hobby truck is shoot for 300 to 350 horse power using machine work
>> and stock parts. If you do this any good auto machine shop can=20
>> help

> i agree with you but for 460's i think 400 hp is easy and
> streetable. i used to run more street motors and for now my daily

This is all very nice but what if you want to build something that=20
has some technical zing like roller cam and rockers and stud girdles=20
(even if you don't really need them) but is still streetable and not=20
JUST streetable but excellently so? I don't want to give up low end=20
torque or smoothness to gain top end and 5500 rpm would be quite=20
satisfactory for me but it seems that these two goals are in=20
conflict, at least with the 460 since the lowest roller cam profile=20
seems to be geared to 2500 rpm starting point. Add Rhodes lifters=20
and we get some of it back but what happens at the top?

Here's what I actually want: I want a growler that won't have an=20
asthma attack at 4k rpm. I don't really care how much power it makes=20
at 5500 as long as it can get there! Both versions of my 460 so far=20
have failed miserably in that department but they are stock=20
piston/porting, Melling torque cam and 600 cfm carb. I know for a=20
fact that 600 cfm is more than adequate to take a 460 past 5k rpm=20
with some power left so it must be all the other stuff that's getting=20
in the way. Like I should be able to do better than 80 mph in second=20
with a wide rato C-6 for god's sake without having to go to a 750=20
double pumper and hot cam, especially with 2.75 gears!

My problem is I want it to do this and get good economy too. I know=20
this is doable and I will eventually get it done but it's hard when=20
the parts aren't on the shelf for that specific application. Seems=20
like all anyone thinks about it raw power at any cost sort of like=20
open heart surgery with blood flowing all over the floor. Just as=20
medicine has discoverd that it's possible to do open heart surgery=20
without transfusions, it's possible to make this engine happen, I=20
just don't have a complete list of parts and configuration=20
particulars put together yet but I will some day :-)

-- Gary Peters --

(Mine)78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6
(Mine)78 Bronco, 4wd, 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
(Daughter's)92 Tempo
(Daughter's)92 T-Bird
(Wife's)94 T-Bird
(Son's)90 F-150, I6
(Son's)76 Blue Bird School bus
All mine to work on, maintain etc..


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:04:32 -0400
From: Kevin Kemmerer
To: "'fordtrucks lofcom.com'"
Subject: RE: 460 Maximum Compression Ratio?
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

i am running a little over 9:1 compression and can use 87 octane cheap =
gas from any pump and have NO detonation or pinging problems. this is =
even when holding wide open throttle all the way down the track pulling =
the sled. i had an early (68) with 11.5:1 compression that needed 92 =
octane to run hard, but 87 ran ok just driving around. i will post a =
companies name here that has been very helpful to me and others building =
460 fords. they can get probobly any part you need and can give you =
good advice on things like comp. ratio.

sleddog

----------
From: Randy Collins[SMTP:rcollins micron.net]
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 1997 1:37 AM
To: 'fordtrucks lofcom.com'
Subject: RE: 460 Maximum Compression Ratio?

Fella's,

Thanks to all that responded to my 460 maximum compression ratio =
posting. =20

In one of the last posts I read there was some concerns about moving off =
topic. Most of the discussions have been regarding the performance of =
the 460. I consider this a bonus. I am very interested in what =
everyone else has done and is doing to the 460 to increase performance. =


I feel that my needs and goals for the motor portion of my project are =
similar to what a few of you have already done. My truck won't be a =
daily driver. But it will be driven on the street. The primary purpose =
of the truck is to haul the water toys to the lake. If it is really fun =
and the performance really impresses me I will probably drive it every =
chance I get. Eventually I will probably get an overhead =
camper for it. I don't care one bit about fuel mileage. If my motor =
returns mileage anywhere near the 8 to 10 miles per gallon I will be =
satisfied. I do care about reliability. I don't much care for broken =
parts. I never have and I am sure that I never will get used to this. =
I do like knowing the potential of machinery and safely taking it up to =
its limits. I don't mind if the life expectiancy of parts are decreased =
by persuring performance potentials. If I know in advance that I will =
have a 30K or 50K mile life expectancy on the motor that's OK with me. =20

I still haven't figured out what the maximum compression ratio can be =
for a 460. I am in the process of spending a lot of money on heads to =
bring up the compression ratio. The local shops tell me that 9:0 or 9:2 =
is the maximum I can safely run. Since I don't have a source for the =
mentioned copper head gaskets of greater thickness I will probably put =
the motor together at 9.1 to 1. Better safe that sorry. =20

Thanks again for everyone's advice and comments. =20

(The motor info is posted below my sig)?.

Randy Collins
Boise, Idaho
rcollins micron.net

1975 Ford F250 4WD Supercab "Muscle Truck"
Soon to have the following Randy installed options:
460 C-6

Vehicle info. =20
Really heavy truck.
4.10 gear ratio.
32.8" diameter tires
C-6 Automatic
2200 RPM Stall

Motor info. =20
429 SCJ Cast Iron Intake
750 Vacuum Holley
C9VE Passenger Car heads matched to the CJ size ports
Intake Ports: cleaned up
Exhaust Ports: Hump removed, contoured and polished
Combustion Chamber Polished
Valve Size I =3D 2.190 E. =3D 1.725
Crane Gold Roller Rockers
Crane Cam #354551
In. Lift: .524
Ex. Lift .553
Duration .050
Intake 226 Degrees
Exhaust 234 Degrees
Lifters Variable Duration
I plan to install the cam advanced 4 degrees
Converter Stall 2200 RPM

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:10:18 -0400
From: Kevin Kemmerer
To: "'fordtrucks lofcom.com'"
Subject: SOURCE FOR FORD PERFORMANCE
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

here is a place to get info, and parts for ford builds. they do only =
ford and have parts for anything from flathead to FE to 429/460 boss =
motors and sheet metal intakes, block head manifold machining porting =
etc.

ENGINE SYSTEMS
2256 FOURTH ST.
TUCKER, GA 30084

770-491-0583

NO WEB ADDRESS AS FAR AS I KNOW.

these guys know ford motors.

sleddog

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 10:37:16 -0700
From: "James A. Doty"
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Edelbrock carb
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>
>Doesn't the coil need to be grounded? My coil came loose on my Dura
>Spark system and the engine died. Tightened the mount bolt up and
>off we went :-)

Actually it has connections at the top and the body of the coil housing is
plastic.

There's a round metal mount that slips over the coil housing (Kind of like
a clamp.) and has a hole off to one side for mounting the coil to the intake
manifold.
======================
James A. Doty
NT Administrator
jamesd e-z.net
E-Z Net, Inc.
209 NE 120th. Ave., Suite B
Vancouver, WA 98684
(360) 260-1122
KI7EL

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:45:55 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: RE: 460 Maximum Compression Ratio?
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

> From: Kevin Kemmerer
> Subject: RE: 460 Maximum Compression Ratio?
> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:52:59 -0400

> so build it for midrange torque. 460 cubic inches will not fall on
> its face at 1500 rpm even with a cam that says it is for 2500 to
> 5500. the cam in my engine is a crower 22205 hyd grind. advertized
> duration is 280/288. this cam allows the motor to spin up on the
> street, and gives low end grunt easily. it doesn't require any high
> doller items like roller rockers or stud girdles, (harland sharp
> sells rollers for 200 bucks.) i am using stock heads with exhaust
> work and small bowl work, dual plane intake and headers. and yes,
> on a previous engine i had a 600 holley and and it spun to 6500 rpm

Are you one of the MANY guys who like the Edlebrock Carb? I only
want the girdles for kicks and aluminum cast valve covers for looks
and both are way down on the bottom of my list right along with the
671 (or 871). What really gripes me is I can't hold my foot down
past 75 or 80 and have to let up to force it to shift into high to
keep accelletating while passing multiple vehicles etc. or when one
bozo decides to see what I've got like happened to me in a short
passing zone one day and the guy had a stock 460 by the way he kept
up with me (75 LTD). If he hadn't backed off I'd have been in the
middle of a blind curve going near 90 or had to nail the brakes
myself to avoid such stupidity. If I didn't have to let off to shift
I would have blown him off easily and all this with 2.75 gears so the
rpm's weren't really that high.

I'm sure it's a tuning thing that I can't fix with the stock spread
bore carb since I'm running relatively open 2.5" pipe and headers (no
balance tube as yet though) I love the spread bore idea but ford
spread bores are different than the others so can't interchange
without inefficient adapters which I refuse to use. All the dual
plane manifolds for the 460 seem to be square bore so I guess I'll
have to research the square bores if I want to make any changes.

Edlebrock doesn't make a spread bore do they? I'd love to run a
Rochester but as I recall they are kind of tempermental? But, again,
what manifold would I use? Shucks, I'd even run a Holley 4175 if I
could find a decent dual plane manifold which didn't have lots of
compromises. I believe the intake manifold and improperly jetted
carb are my biggest problem right now but I'm just guessing.


-- Gary Peters --

(Mine)78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6
(Mine)78 Bronco, 4wd, 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
(Daughter's)92 Tempo
(Daughter's)92 T-Bird
(Wife's)94 T-Bird
(Son's)90 F-150, I6
(Son's)76 Blue Bird School bus
All mine to work on, maintain etc..

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 13:05:55 -0500
From: John Strauss
To: Ford Trucks List
Subject: Holley problems - me too
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>I have this same problem.
>

(major snippage)

>I hope thats enough to get started - geesh :)
>
>Calling all car buffs on this one! Two people with similar problems - hmmmm
>
>Thanks guys!
>
>Mike
>
I suspect your secondaries are opening too soon. Disable the secondaries
and then try it (as a 2bbl). If that takes care of the problem, you need
to get a stronger spring for the secondary diaphram.


_
_| ~~. John Strauss
\, _} jstrauss inetport.com
\( Texas Fight!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 13:18:24 -0500
From: "Donald R. Screen"
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Spreadbore carbs
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Edlebrock doesn't make a spread bore do they? I'd love to run a
> Rochester but as I recall they are kind of tempermental? But, again,


Gary,
Edelbrock does make spread bore carbs. Check it out at
www.edelbrock.com I know they make quadrajet replacement carbs (spread
bore configuration).

Don
Allen, Texas

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:08:00 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Edelbrock carb
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> I recently purchased a 600 cfm Edelbrock (1406 model) and installed
>it on my 390 intake manifold. I ran into a problem hooking it up
>though. My 1974 F100 XLT Ranger uses rods instead of cables for the
>throttle and transmission kickdown.

> But the linkage is a full 2 inches
>further over from the original....ie. the throttle rod and transmission
>rod don't line up with the tacked on Ford adapter.

>I'm hoping someone else out the has installed an Edelbrock carb on an FE
>motor with rod linkages and solved this problem already. I really would
>like to have the kickdown rod installed.
>Anybody got any idea how to fix this?....


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