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fordtrucks-digest DigestVolume 97 : Issue 125

Today's Topics:

49 Truck overheat [rmeier connect.net (Roger Meier) ]
Re: C-6 Trouble ["Rodney S. Richeson"
Re: C-6 Trouble [Daver ]
Re: Gas Tank Location [kel-cel ccinet.ab.ca (kel-cel ) ]
Re: 1949 Ford F100 Overheating Probl [Dan Wentz ]
Too hot? ["Mitch Miller" ]
Re: C-6 Trouble [HYDROSMITH aol.com ]
Re: Gas Tank Location ["Jim Strigas"
Re: C-6 Trouble [u176475 webtv.net (Shannon Pate) ]
Re: C-6 Trouble [daffin satcom.whit.org (Mike ) ]
Re: 1949 Ford F100 Overheating Probl ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Gas Tank Location [Paul G ]
Radiator overflow tank [Paul G ]
New Member Intro ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: C-6 Trouble ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Ok here's my theroy.... ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Heater Box ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: disc brake problems... fixed (so ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]

Administrivia:

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____________________________________________________________________


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:48:21 -0800
From: rmeier connect.net (Roger Meier)
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com
Subject: 49 Truck overheat
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Glenn writes:
"My brother has a '49 F100. He has an overheating problem when he drives at
highway speeds (about 50mph). Around town and even at idle speeds, the engine
runs cool. The engine has been boiled out and rebuilt. Same with the
radiator. He says he has good coolant circulation which he sees when he
removes the radiator cap. He say the radiator is hot to the touch at the top
but cool at the bottom, so coolant temperature is being decreased as it passes
through the radiator. Thermostat has been changed twice. When he drives at
the highway speeds, he can watch the temp gauge climb.
Any suggestions????
Thanks,"

Glenn,
If it only has one thermostat it is either an inline six or a later V8. If it is the six, check the lower radiator for the presence of a coil spring inside it. These early Fords did not use much of a pressure cap and when the water pump was revved up, they could pump more water that could flow through the radiator by gravity. When this happened, and the spring was not in good shape, the lower radiator hose would collapse and further limit the amount of water available for the pump. This will cause symptoms like you are describing. If the spring is OK, you should be unable to collapse the lower hose by hand.
Regards,
Roger Meier

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 20:52:34 +0000
From: "Rodney S. Richeson"
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: C-6 Trouble
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I have a line from the little canister on the tranny that hooks to a
port where my disc brake booster also connects, on the manifold.. This
is a somewhat custom installation, but I bent a hard line from the
vacuum. If I revv the motor real high it acts like it wants to creep
forward, but I don't hold it like that very long, 1-2 seconds. I dont
think it's between gears, happens in all three forward gears...

Thanx,
Rod

William Sabers wrote:
>
> Hey Rod!
> Have you checked to make sure the tranny is getting enough vaccume
> (sp)??? Is the fluid level at the proper level (check it engine warm, and
> in park. Is your linkage set properly, sometimes it might be between
> drive and neutral....
>
> just my $.02 worth
> Wsabers
>
> > After I put in a new engine, my so called rebuilt tranny is not working
> > correctly. It will not go forward. It seems to be slipping. Since I put
> > the new engine in it acts like it takes a second to "spool up", for lack
> > of a tech term, when you put it in drive. When I sit at a light you
> > have to give it the gas to get going. Before I remember it wanting to
> > creep forward, even at idle. It has had plenty of tranny fluid, and
> > never been abused at all. In reverse the truck will go without any
> > problems. It has been sitting for the past 7 months. My wife is
> > impressed with my mechanic'n ability so far.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Rod
> > 77 F-250 "beater"
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________________
> > Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
> > For help send mail with subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks-request lofcom.com
> > Comments and suggestions are welcome, use: kpayne mindspring.com
> >
> >
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
> For help send mail with subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks-request lofcom.com
> Comments and suggestions are welcome, use: kpayne mindspring.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:53:19 -0500
From: Daver
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: C-6 Trouble
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Rodney S. Richeson wrote:
>
> After I put in a new engine, my so called rebuilt tranny is not working
> correctly. It will not go forward. It seems to be slipping. Since I put
> the new engine in it acts like it takes a second to "spool up", for lack
> of a tech term, when you put it in drive. When I sit at a light you
> have to give it the gas to get going. Before I remember it wanting to
> creep forward, even at idle. It has had plenty of tranny fluid, and
> never been abused at all. In reverse the truck will go without any
> problems. It has been sitting for the past 7 months. My wife is
> impressed with my mechanic'n ability so far.

A can of K&N may fix your problem sounds as though you have a gummed up
valve body. First and reverse are the same gear so if first is going
reverse should be biten the big one also if not a pluged valve body it
may be the filter.

Molater

Daver

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:12:21 -0600 (MDT)
From: kel-cel ccinet.ab.ca (kel-cel )
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Gas Tank Location
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

As a firefighter in Canada, I have seen many safety films
and articles on vehicle accidents / extrications.
In side impact collisions, fuel tanks surrounded by the frame
are far less likely to rupture in an accident.
That said, I have not encountered a tank rupture that endangered
the occupants.
Just drive safe, and defensively and all should be well.

Kelly.

>I know this sounds like a silly question, but does anyone have a theory
>as to why Ford put the gas tanks on the inside of the frame rail,
>instead of outside, like the pickups?
>
>Paul G.
>
>
>____________________________________________________________________
>Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
>For help send mail with subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks-request lofcom.com
>Comments and suggestions are welcome, use: kpayne mindspring.com
>
>
>
-- The Spongbergs --
Kelly, Colleen, & Dallas

"Keep your stick on the ice."
Red Green (aka Steve Smith)

email - kel-cel ccinet.ab.ca

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 21:35:20 -0700
From: Dan Wentz
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com
Subject: Re: 1949 Ford F100 Overheating Problem
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>My brother has a '49 F100. He has an overheating problem when he drives at
>highway speeds (about 50mph). Around town and even at idle speeds, the
engine
>runs cool.

In terms of cooling, flatheads have got some problems. I'm assuming that
since the truck in question is a 49 that it has a flathead. I think that
the big problem here is that with a stock rear end (and it's 3.91 or 4.27
gears) at 50 mph you're doing prolly 3000 RPM. With the engine running
that fast, the defects in the flathead's cooling system (left-over casting
sand or whatever it is) come into play and make your temp go way up. I
have 3 suggestions: 1.) make sure you've got good water pumps. 2.) run
lower temp (like 160) thermostats. 3.) consider a rear end swap (to get
better gearing). Your engine will thank you--gotta love those flatheads.
JUST SAY NO TO OVERHEAD VALVES! ;-)

~Dan

1992 Ford Mustang LX
1950 Ford F1, 351C-2V
Check out my F1 page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.GeoCities.com/MotorCity/3623

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 23:52:32 -0500
From: "Mitch Miller"
To:
Subject: Too hot?
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

So your engine is running hot and you can't figure out why...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------

I rebuilt a '51 flathead - and I could never get it to run at the right
temperature. Fixed the rad, changed the thermostats, swaped a sending
unit, ran without thermostats, didn't matter... because it ran hot anyway.

So I pulled the head and discovered that i had a cracked block, you know -
between the valves. Luckily, it was under warranty and they paid me $40 to
pull it, and they found me a new engine.

Sure hope this is not your problem...


Mitch
mmiller dryden.net
See my '46 pickup in the pictorial...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 00:58:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: HYDROSMITH aol.com
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: C-6 Trouble
Message-ID:

Rod,

Sounds to me like your torque converter is not completely locked in or the
pump may be broken as has happened with an experience of mine.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:15:33 -0700
From: "Jim Strigas"
To:
Subject: Re: Gas Tank Location
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Weight distribution would be my guess. The test on the Chevy truck was
fake. Remember in the trial they slowed the film and showed the tank explode
just before impact. The studio admitted they mistook the film as a test not
a mock-up of a accident. I don't remember the Courts decision in the case
but vehicles are still made with the gas tank outside the frame! Now the
Pinto is another story! :)



Jim Strigas
jstrigas worldnet.att.net

'73 F100
'83 XJ900RK
'86 GL1200 Custom

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Kelly
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Date: Wednesday, July 23, 1997 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: Gas Tank Location



>Paul G wrote:
>>
>> I know this sounds like a silly question, but does anyone have a theory
>> as to why Ford put the gas tanks on the inside of the frame rail,
>> instead of outside, like the pickups?
>>
>> Paul G.
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________________
>> Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
>> For help send mail with subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks-request lofcom.com
>> Comments and suggestions are welcome, use: kpayne mindspring.com
>
>
>My theory would be that for crash reasons...less likely to be damaged
>severely on the insid eof the frame! Remeber the CH*** recall for trucks
>catching on fire when hit in the side! Out side the frame gas tank was
>the problem!
>
>
>
>____________________________________________________________________
>Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
>For help send mail with subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks-request lofcom.com
>Comments and suggestions are welcome, use: kpayne mindspring.com
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 01:35:49 -0400
From: u176475 webtv.net (Shannon Pate)
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: C-6 Trouble
Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

hey rod ihad a c6 do the same thing in my 79 f250 1 ton so you say it
has been sitting for a while on mine ichecked the filter ,fluid level
andeven put in a new converter and that didnt solve the problemthe
problem ended up being that the clutch packs where stuck together in the
transmission so irebuilt it and so you might think about that as being
your problem


stuck in reverse
shannon
still looking for a71 to 79 crew cab to buy if anyone can HELP ME
please e-mail me

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 23:38:33 -0600
From: daffin satcom.whit.org (Mike )
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: C-6 Trouble
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I had my tranny rebuilt recently... It was out of a 74. I too had the same
effect but in the old one.. there is a rubber part that distributes the
tranny fluid.. and it gets hard over time.. and heat.. it is what gave my
tranny the old timers disease .. that is what the mechanic called it.. they
may have put the old part back in figuring it was still good.. who knows...
but because reverse is direct drive.. it does not need the distribution of
fluid.. jut put it in gear.. gods I have learned alot in the past copuple of
weeks with this old ford..


Mike.


>After I put in a new engine, my so called rebuilt tranny is not working
>correctly. It will not go forward. It seems to be slipping. Since I put
>the new engine in it acts like it takes a second to "spool up", for lack
>of a tech term, when you put it in drive. When I sit at a light you
>have to give it the gas to get going. Before I remember it wanting to
>creep forward, even at idle. It has had plenty of tranny fluid, and
>never been abused at all. In reverse the truck will go without any
>problems. It has been sitting for the past 7 months. My wife is
>impressed with my mechanic'n ability so far.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Rod
>77 F-250 "beater"
>
>
>____________________________________________________________________
>Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
>For help send mail with subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks-request lofcom.com
>Comments and suggestions are welcome, use: kpayne mindspring.com
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 07:54:03 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: 1949 Ford F100 Overheating Problem
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 97 00:48:29 UT
> From: "Glenn "
> Subject: FW: 1949 Ford F100 Overheating Problem

> My brother has a '49 F100. He has an overheating problem when he
> drives at highway speeds (about 50mph). Around town and even at
> idle speeds, the engine runs cool. The engine has been boiled out
> and rebuilt. Same with the radiator. He says he has good coolant

We've discussed this at length on the bronco list and it's my
conviction that many of us are trying to use too small a radiator for
our modified or swapped in engines. If the coolant is flowing and
the fan is working properly and the thermostat is new and correct for
the application and you are sure the block AND radiator are clean
then the radiator isn't big enough or something is interfering with
air flow etc. IMHO.


-- Gary Peters --

(Mine)78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6
(Mine)78 Bronco, 4wd, 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
(Daughter's)92 Tempo
(Daughter's)92 T-Bird
(Wife's)94 T-Bird
(Son's)90 F-150, I6
(Son's)76 Blue Bird School bus
All mine to work on, maintain etc..

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 08:07:18 -0700
From: Paul G
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Gas Tank Location
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I meant to say, why did Ford put the gas tank on the inside on the PANEL
trucks, but not the Pickups? Sorry.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 08:09:48 -0700
From: Paul G
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Radiator overflow tank
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I would like to add overflow tanks to some of my older Ford trucks; I
believe an overflow rad tank cap is different from a "regular" cap. Is
this true.
Can you use an normal cap with a radiator overflow tank. If you can,
why do they always give you a new cap with the kits?
Thanks, Paul

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 08:16:56 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: New Member Intro
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I'm new to the truck list so I'll introduce myself briefly. I have
had 7 Ford trucks including a 67 f-100, 68 f-100, 62 f-600 cab over
stake truck (lots of fun), 73 e-350, 75 e-150, 78 f-150 and current 78
bronco XLT ranger. Whoops! almost forgot the 48 flathead stake truck
I had for a short time. (wish I still had it :-( ) I had a 351W,
351C, 429 and 460 in the 75 van which I also converted to 4x4 using
bronco parts and some imagination. The 460 now resides in my 78 f-150
and is waiting for a new crank. The 75 is dead and buried in a
salvage yard but its heart (alas, not it's soul) is piled up in my
back yard as spares for the bronco. (I loved that truck!)

I work at Ford Motor as a Tool & Cutter Grinder programming,
setting up and running CNC equipment, developing tooling for
production as well as maintaining our tool room data base (Access II)
on a company network server. I've been messing with mechanical stuff
since I was 12 years old and it's facination hasn't diminished yet
for me so here I am! My job allows me considerable surfing time and
the bronco list has slowed down for the summer so I went looking for
some new info related to my bronco project and found you guys.
Sometimes I think I know more than I do so don't be afraid to slap me
once in a while if I get carried away.

BTW, I'm an old time mechanic so EFI and EEC-IV et all are way beyond
my interest or knowledge (I am a dura spark II expert tho) but I am
considering using EGO's to calibrate my Holley's fuel mix and maybe a
knock sensor at some point but this is all still in dream land.

Here's the run down on my current trucks:

78 bronco XLT Ranger, 351M, NP435, NP205, 9" rear, 31 spline with
3.5 open diff , Dana 44 front also open (and leaking like a seive),
33" tires. Body in good shape with typical rust over rear wheels and
floor behind front wheels. Stock suspension with anti sway bars
front and rear (very happy about that) new rear springs, Cepek
shocks, poly bushings, double cardans front and rear (one end only)
and my rear window works and the tail gate isn't rusted out (yet).
Oh, and brand new E brake cables which make this the first truck I
ever had with E brake that works :-) Know how you can tell an old
Ford truck going down the road? By the E brake cables hanging down
(rusted out)

78 F-150 Custom, 460 basic engine with home made cobbled up mounts,
C-6 wide ratio, 9" 31 spline rear 2.75 gears open diff, stock LT
tires and lots of rust.

I've considered restoring the PU but It's pretty hopeless. Still in
my thoughts but now the bronco has replaced it in priority and it's
far from hopeless :-)

-- Gary Peters --

(Mine)78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6
(Mine)78 Bronco, 4wd, 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
(Daughter's)92 Tempo
(Daughter's)92 T-Bird
(Wife's)94 T-Bird
(Son's)90 F-150, I6
(Son's)76 Blue Bird School bus
All mine to work on, maintain etc..

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 08:38:33 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: C-6 Trouble
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 19:39:40 +0000
> From: "Rodney S. Richeson"
> Subject: C-6 Trouble

> After I put in a new engine, my so called rebuilt tranny is not
> working correctly. It will not go forward. It seems to be slipping.

--- Snip---

> plenty of tranny fluid, and never been abused at all. In reverse
> the truck will go without any problems. It has been sitting for the
> past 7 months. My wife is impressed with my mechanic'n ability so

An unused auto tranny is like a bag of cilica jell, it absorbs water
which reacts with various things in the oil and metals to cause
varnish among other things which interferes with the clutches and
bands grip. The C-6 is noted for it's ability to go in reverse no
matter how badly it's beat up but going forward is a whole nuther
smoke. If it's been sitting for 7 months and not run at all you may
have enough water in there to cause some trouble or, more likely, the
shop didn't do a very good rebuild job on it or used the wrong fluid.

I made a mistake when I rebuilt my first one by putting Dextron II
in it which (I believe) damaged the clutches and band so that my
response was poor like yours especially when cold or first started.
It improved once warmed up but was never right again even after
replacing the fluid with type F. They say the Dextron III is
supposed to work but I'm not convinced.

-- Gary Peters --

(Mine)78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6
(Mine)78 Bronco, 4wd, 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
(Daughter's)92 Tempo
(Daughter's)92 T-Bird
(Wife's)94 T-Bird
(Son's)90 F-150, I6
(Son's)76 Blue Bird School bus
All mine to work on, maintain etc..

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:01:46 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Ok here's my theroy....
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:41:46 -0500
> From: Daver
> Subject: Re: Ok here's my theroy....

> > >Ok I'm running 12:1 + static compression with 108 degrees of
-- Snip--
> > >So how hot should it run?

-- reply:

> As long as its true 93 octane the thing will run fine. It's a 406
> FE and it'll run between 185 and 200 degrees on a hot day with a 190
> thermostat.

-- My reply --

Keep in mind that many of us are building motors or swaping in motors
which put out much more heat than the original so that the radiator
can become marginal at best. Most pump gas around here is 91 octane
and questionable even at that. Responses I've seen so far seem to
indicate that 10.5:1 is about it on pump gas and back in the old days
I remember 9.5:1 requiring premium which was higher octane back then
but mixtures were richer as well. It really depends on the
mixture/cam specs how far you can really go. If you run lean enough
with the right cam set up you could conceivably get up to 12:1 but I
doubt if most of us could do it successfully. Even at 93 octane
you'd have to sacrifice something seems to me, either by retarding
the spark or staying off the gas to avoid detonation. Sportsman
stock car guys run 10:1 compression on 104 octane because of the
specifics of the cam/mixture etc. coupled with more heat than street
engines due to sustained high rpms etc. and most of them use over
size aluminum radiators as well.

-- Gary Peters --

(Mine)78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6
(Mine)78 Bronco, 4wd, 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
(Daughter's)92 Tempo
(Daughter's)92 T-Bird
(Wife's)94 T-Bird
(Son's)90 F-150, I6
(Son's)76 Blue Bird School bus
All mine to work on, maintain etc..

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:28:43 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Heater Box
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 20:17:36 -0700
> From: Paul G
> Subject: Heater Box

> I can't afford the $850 units; common sense tells me something from
> the junk yard will work, but it's hard to tear into them there.

Did you know Griffin makes custom aluminum radiators and may be able
to make a core for much less than $850? They quoted me $650 for an
oversize radiator for my bronco and it's big so the heater core
should be much less. They have a web site and E-mail for quotes.
There is another web site http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.panix.com/~jlawlor/ which is
"Radiators direct" I understand has good prices.

-- Gary Peters --

(Mine)78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6
(Mine)78 Bronco, 4wd, 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
(Daughter's)92 Tempo
(Daughter's)92 T-Bird
(Wife's)94 T-Bird
(Son's)90 F-150, I6
(Son's)76 Blue Bird School bus
All mine to work on, maintain etc..

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:37:58 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: disc brake problems... fixed (sort of)
Message-Id:....

---

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