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Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 19:51:37 -0400 (EDT)
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------------------------------

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fordtrucks-digest DigestVolume 97 : Issue 107

Today's Topics:

Re: So tell me...... [sdelanty sonic.net ]
390 Intake manifold ["Donald R. Screen"
Edelbrock 600 carb ["Donald R. Screen"
Edelbrock 600 carb ["Donald R. Screen"
53-56 F100 History [David Neumayer ]
Re: 390 Intake manifold ["Jim Strigas"
Re: Need help again: [Steve & Rockette
F-1 VIN [John Strauss
52 VIN [John Strauss
door repair panels for 47 [Jeff Hazewinkel
Re: Engine mystery [sdelanty sonic.net ]
Re: Edelbrock swap question [sdelanty sonic.net ]
1974 XLT 390 maybe ["Donald R. Screen"
Re: 9" rear ends [sdelanty sonic.net ]
RE: Engine mystery ["Olson, Mike I" ]
Re: 1974 XLT 390 maybe [Kevin Lindstedt
Re: Edelbrock swap question [Ken Payne ]
51 VIN [billjhs ]
Re: door repair panels for 47 [Ken Payne ]

Administrivia:

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 22:24:55 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com
Subject: Re: So tell me......
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>There's been a lot of talk in here about upgrading to a electronic
>ignition, I was wondering if it actually makes a difference and what kind
>of wrench-turning operation are we talking: easy-moderate-hard?

Yes, it makes a difference. It's a subtle, but pleasant difference. For me it
was better low end light throttle smoothness, and better throttle response,
especially when the motor was cold, and also better prformance from about
4000rpm up. Admittedly, part of the improvement was because my old dist was
quite
worn, and because the new dist has a more aggressive vacuum advance curve...
But any decent electronic dist is more accurate than a set of points
bouncing around...
*It's a -very easy- and worthwhile modification.*

>I have a
>73' 302 cu in. rock stock, with points and was thinking of something to do
>that isn't to expensive and would benefit me at a performance and milage
>level...could this be it?

Oh man, You are a perfect candidate.. Go to Your local wreckers and grab a
duraspark distributor, cap adaptor, large cap, rotor, ignitor box, coil, and
all the conectors with as much wire as possible. You can likely find a nice
fresh set of 8.5mm wires for 302 if You hunt around.
You should get it all for under $50 at the wreckers. $30 would be better..
Try and find a dist that's not worn out.. little shaft side play.
You can get a rebuilt one for under $50 at he parts store if You have a core to
give up.
I got the stuff for my truck from a 1980 econoline van.
302 passenger cars are candidates also.
There's *zillions* of late 70's-80's 302 Ford/Mercury's with the goods You
want...

>I noticed I can get a EI kit out of J.C. Whitney,
>the system is made by Crane Cams and it's about a hundred bucks.

I'd just get the stock duraspark stuff. It's cheap. It's proven. It works good.
If it does blow up You can get replacement parts at nearly any auto parts
store or wreckers in the USA. For cheap...
I use the duraspark dist with an MSD6A ign, but I carry a duraspark box in the
glovebox and can hook it up if the MSD ever dies..

>I guess
>what I want to know is, is it really worth it and if so, what does it
>consist of.

Change the distributor, mount "the box" with 2 screws, and hook up a couple
wires.
If You have any problems with installation, I think several Fordtrucks members
including myself could/would help walk You through it.. but it is quite easy.

Happy motoring,

Steve Delanty

1971 F100 shortbox, FE390, T-18 4-speed

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 00:09:51 -0500
From: "Donald R. Screen"
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: 390 Intake manifold
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Would the 4V 390 FE manifold be considered a spread bore
or square bore manifold. Anybody care to enlighten me
on the finer points (differences)? All I know is that the
Quadrajet and Carter Thermoquad carbs are considered to be
spread bore. What if any Motorcraft carbs were spread bore?

Don

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 17:17:10 -0500
From: "Donald R. Screen"
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
CC: edelbrock edelbrock.com
Subject: Edelbrock 600 carb
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I just dropped an Edelbrock 600 carb on my 360 V8
Trouble is the automatic transmission kickdown rod and throttle
linkage rod don't line up the Ford adapter linkage on the carb
Should I just bend the rods to get it to line up or is there
a better solution?
By adding the Ford adapter linkage to the Edelbrock carb as required,
the throttle and trans kickdown hookups have moved almost 2 inches over!
Anybody else done this mod?

Don

1974 F100 XLT Ranger C6 trans.
(these are rods going to the linkages not cables).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 00:07:13 -0500
From: "Donald R. Screen"
To: edelbrock edelbrock.com
CC: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Edelbrock 600 carb
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I just purchased a Model 1406 carb for my
1974 Ford XLT Ranger with a 360 V8 and C6
transmission. I added the Ford Adapter Kit,
but adding the kit moves the throttle and
transmission kickdown rods a couple of inches
further out from the stock carb location.
Since these two linkages are rods not cables
there is quite an angle to get them to hook up
to the carb and they bind and interfere with each
other. I'm sure others have run into this same problem.

Is the best solution to bend the kickdown and throttle rods
to conform to the linkage hookups that are futher out now?
Or is there an aftermarket source for new kickdown rods and
throttle rod linkage that take this extra spacing into account?
Any of you on the list added a Edelbrock 600 with Ford Adapter
to an FE motor and solved the linkage/rod problem?

Don Screen
5 Jennifer Court
Allen, Texas


PS. My kit was missing the black ground wire for the Model 1406.
Any chance you could send me one? Thank you.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 09:11:37 -0800
From: David Neumayer
To: ford digest
Subject: 53-56 F100 History
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Thanks so much for the information on 1956 F100 original colors. I
would also like to find out if anyone can give me the names of some
resources on the history of the '53-56 F100's. The more details the
better.

David Neumayer

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 23:31:59 -0700
From: "Jim Strigas"
To:
Subject: Re: 390 Intake manifold
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Spread-bores have large secondary and small primaries,
square-bores both are the same size.

Jim Strigas
jstrigas worldnet.att.net
'73 F100
'83 XJ900RK
'86 GL1200 Custom
'77 Buick Estate Wagon


----------
> From: Donald R. Screen
> To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
> Subject: 390 Intake manifold
> Date: Monday, July 07, 1997 10:09 PM
>
> Would the 4V 390 FE manifold be considered a spread bore
> or square bore manifold. Anybody care to enlighten me
> on the finer points (differences)? All I know is that the
> Quadrajet and Carter Thermoquad carbs are considered to be

> spread bore. What if any Motorcraft carbs were spread
bore?
>
> Don
>
>
>
_____________________________________________________________
_______
> Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
> For help send mail with subject "HELP"
to:fordtrucks-request lofcom.com
> Comments and suggestions are welcome, use:
kpayne mindspring.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:42:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve & Rockette
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Need help again:
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 09:10 PM 7/7/97 -0400, you wrote:

>I have recently replaced the well worn 240
>6 cyl. with a fresh 302 basically stock and
>moved the shifter from the column to the floor
>now I need a 4 spd. to go behind the 302


Hi George;
My '57 has a RUG OD 4 speed, stock from a mid 70's
Granada, 4th gear is an OD, I think its 0.80:1, at
least thats what if calculates out to. I've got about
19 mpg out of this combo (289 4bbl headers 3.70 gears
255/60/15's) cruises at 2400rpm at 60-65mph.
it may not be the stoutest trans out there,but it has
survived for 8 years, so I can't complain, plus it was
a direct bolt in.
You could also try a Top Loader, if you've got 700 to
1000 bucks burning a hole in your pocket...


Steve & Rockette...Lifes a beach
'57 F100 Shorty
'63 F100 Longbox

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 07:47:45 -0500
From: John Strauss
To: Ford Trucks List
Subject: F-1 VIN
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Hello guys and thanks for all the help with the oil lines on the filter
>of my f-1. Now I have another question. The only VIN number of any kind
>on the truck is on a plate on the firewall, all I could get was the
>stamped number of F1R1MP15366. Can anyone make sense of it ?? Thanks
>again
>
It's a 1951 model F-1 with 239 V-8, assembled in Memphis, TN.

John

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 07:48:51 -0500
From: John Strauss
To: Ford Trucks List
Subject: 52 VIN
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>I also have a '52 F-1 with the 239 flathead (just bought it on the
>3rd). If anyone has information about how to decode the VINs on these
>models, please post! Mine is F1R2MP22568.
>
You already know just about everything the VIN can tell you. It's a 52
model F-1 with 239 V8, assembled in Memphis, TN.

John

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 12:58:23 -0500
From: Jeff Hazewinkel
To: fordtrucks
Subject: door repair panels for 47
Message-id:
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Has anyone a source for a a weld-in panel for the inner lower door for a
47 truck ? I would much rather buy a panel than try to fabricate a new
one.

Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:43:15 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Engine mystery
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>The truck was produced in January 1974, but the intake manifold has
>the following numbers:
> D5TE9425MB
> 307
> 5F30
>
>Can anyone out there decode these numbers for me?

It's a '75 manifold off a truck (D5TE9425MB)
D5 is '75, 3rd digit T means truck (Z is mustang, E is pinto, A is full size
galaxie,etc.) 4th digit E means a part from the Ford Engine division.
9425 I think just means it's an intake manifold. MB would be revisions on
the origional part.

That other stuff, uh, I dunno.

Sounds like someone been there before You and changed the manifold..

>Am I really looking
>at a 1975 460 V8 intake manifold?

If it fits on an FE, it ain't from a 429/460...

>or maybe a 390?

Very likely. Who knows, maybe the motor is a 390...
When I bought the FE for my truck, the guy *said* it was a 360, the valve
cover tag said 360, but when I got it home and checked the stroke, it was a
390!
(No, I wasn't bummed..) Hope Your story is that happy (-:

>Will a 460 intake manifold even mount on 360 heads?

Nope.

Happy motoring,

Steve Delanty

1971 F100 shortbox, FE390, T-18 4-speed

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:43:18 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Edelbrock swap question
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Ken writes:
>I know that with a 390 you can jack it up enough by the crank behind
>the pulley. I believe the 360 crank can take the stress too but if
>anyone out there knows this to be untrue please correct me. Loosen
>the engine mounts and unbolt the tranny mount. A floor jack with
>a 2x4 (to give the crank a soft surface with a little "give") works.
>Don't take it up more than a couple of inches, give it the least amount
>of clearance you can get away with as the engine is heavy (670lbs,
>not including the intake and exhaust manifolds!) and thats alot of weight
>on the crank (although they are notoriously strong).

I don't *know* if jacking by the crank is bad, but it would make me nervous..

I'd only be a little worried about bending an FE crank, but even a
couple thousandths would be enough to cause big trouble.
Mostly tho, I'd worry about damaging (denting) the front bearing.
Because the crank journal O.D. is slightly smaller than the bearing I.D,
with no oil pressure the crank will only contact the bearing along a narrow
line parallel with the axis of the crank and will see an awfull lot of load
on a small area with a FE and all the fixins hanging on it.

When the motor is running, a layer of oil under pressure distributes the
crank forces out across a much larger area.
Of course it's hard to get the jack to stay under the crank with it running...

Dunno if it hurts or not, but I'd hate to risk shortening my main bearing
lifespan to change a pan gasket.

Happy motoring,

Steve Delanty

1971 F100 shortbox, FE390, T-18 4-speed

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 15:07:55 -0500
From: "Donald R. Screen"
To: sdelanty sonic.net
CC: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: 1974 XLT 390 maybe
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Steve,
Thanks for addressing both of my questions. You are the first person
I've talked to that could correctly decode at least part of the casting
on the intake manifold. Once I realized that the D5 part meant 1975 I
started looking at everything else under the hood. I mistakenly thought
no one had ever tinkered with this truck. WRONG! The 4300 Motorcraft
carb has a base stamp D0FF, off of something other than a truck and from
1970! Intake manifold and bell crank both from 1975. Fan shroud also
from a different year. God knows what else has been changed. The truck
was so covered in grease, dirt, debris etc that it looked untouched by
human hands since its purchase in 1974.

I called North Central Ford, Autozone, Pep Boys, Ford Parts Only, and a
local wrecking yard for help in decoding the manifold numbers. Year
info was the only thing offered (by the guy in wrecking yard), everybody
else said "I dunno".

I was able to solve one other mystery. The truck is supposed to have an
EGR valve on the back side of the carb spacer. I pulled the spacer and
found the exhaust crossover passage under the left side of the spacer
had been blocked off with a brass cover/plug and then poorly sealed with
some silicone. The spacer has a domed area on the left side where the
crossover passage comes up out of the manifold but there are no holes to
connect the carb spacer to an EGR valve. The EGR TVS is missing, still
not sure where the EGR TVS would have gone on this 390FE 4V manifold but
no doubt it was plugged by some previous owner.
I bought the truck about 2 years ago for my teenage son to fix up. I
could've sworn the guy said it was a 390 motor. Will go check the stoke
and see! Sure would be nice. The last owner said the only thing wrong
with the truck was a cracked windshield and a broken heater. HAH!!!
I told him I didn't mind working on vehicles and asked him to be honest
because I still had every intention of buying it, no matter the real
condition. So far everything I have been able to touch or get a look at
needed some sort of repair or restoration. The scariest find was
numerous chunks missing out of the left front rotor and aluminium foil
in place of 3 amp fuse for the interior lighting circuit (this later
caused the cab to fill with smoke and melted the entire interior
lighting system). I also found what resembled pine bark mulch in the
heater valve, clogging it up! I found a bent nail substituted for a
cotter pin at the transmission shift linkage. There is household carpet
on the floor and overhead. No telling what's underneath it..kinda
afraid to look. Starter was missing one of three mounting bolts. AC
compressor was not bolted down properly...jumped around like a Mexican
jumping bean. When I purchased the truck the previous owner handed me
the carb linkage for the secondaries that had been unhooked. Other carb
linkages were just dangling...missing e clips. Vacuum motor on the air
cleaner was broke. Neutral safety switch had been removed because the
metal activating bar was sheared off. The switch connections had been
jumpered so the truck would start in any gear!! Yikes! The turn signal
cam was completely worn out. The pollution canister lines to the carb
and vacuum sources were completly missing. The carb bowl vent had a two
inch piece of hose with a large bolt stuck in it for a plug. The carb
leaked fuel from every seam possible. Choke worked so poorly that the
truck would not idle cold. To show me the truck the previous owner
whipped out a pocket knife to pry own the vent window to reach in and
unlock the door because he had no keys to the doors, just ignition.

It's been two years of off and on again work, and the above items have
been fixed. Finally starting to look and act like a road worthy
vehicle. The truck does have good compression and steady vacuum with
a C6 and 9 in Ford rear end.

Anybody else got a horror story like this on their old truck purchase?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 12:41:58 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com
Subject: Re: 9" rear ends
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>One thing to look for in 9 inch Fords: Look at the cover, which is cast.
>There might be a big "N" cast into it. If so, this rearend is a strong one;
>that means Nodular, meaning something like a better casting ( I am not a
>metallurgist). These are definitely the stronger rearends and are more
>valuable than the ones without the "N" cast onto them.

Yeah, nodular, or "ductile" iron is quite a lot stronger than common "grey"
iron.
One of the key differences is a small amount of magnesium or cerium added to the
composition. These elements cause the graphite to form into spheroids rather
than
flakes. Flakes of graphite in iron increase an internal notch effect which
reduces tensile strength, toughness and ductility. Spheroids minimize this
effect
and be mo'betta.
Welding nodular iron requires considerable trouble to maintain good
strength, cuz graphite in the welded area tends to revert back to flakes,
but correct filler
metal selection and fancy preheat/postheat/stress relieving techniques help
minimize this...

Anyway.. so where's this "N" located? You don't expect me to clean the whole
thing to look for it do You? (Yeah, I know, it would greatly reduce
unsprung weight...)

Happy motoring,

Steve Delanty

1971 F100 shortbox, FE390, T-18 4-speed

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:48:57 -0400
From: "Olson, Mike I"
To: "'fordtrucks lofcom.com'"
Subject: RE: Engine mystery
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain

>Am I really looking at a 1975 460 V8 intake manifold? or maybe a 390?
>Will a 460 intake manifold even mount on 360 heads?

Don,

Well, I'm new around here but I'll throw my $.02 worth in anyway. You'll
need a manifold from an FE engine, one from a 460 will not work. A 390
will work just fine. I have a '76 F-250 4X4 with a slightly warmed over
360. The Ford manuals that I have (for '76) shows the 360 in a 2V only.
I have installed an Edelbrock Performer and a Holly 4bbl combination on
mine. The manifold is designed so that, if necessary, you can drill
through to an exhaust passage to accommodate EGR. This setup is legal
and passed SMOG in California, as long as you have the rest of the
original parts for the visual.

If you need smog parts (this type of EGR stuff was only on the '75-'76,
I think) try Help Smog Parts, 800-544-4357. They helped me out with
parts, new EGR plate and valve, air cleaner and much needed vacuum
diagrams. I'll admit, it wasn't cheep, but better than a new truck!

If you need more info, part #'s for the carb or manifold, etc., let me
know. It'll be about a week before I get back home where the stuff is
at, I'm in Alaska right now, but I'll get back to you.

Mike
olsonmi bp.com
olsonmj mlode.com

1930 Ford A p/u, early phone booth type closed cab
1955 Ford F-100 Custom Cab
1966 3.8 S-Type Jag Sedan
1971 MGB
1976 Ford F-250 Ranger 4X4
1991 Ford Probe LX

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 16:56:27 +0900
From: Kevin Lindstedt
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com, sdelanty sonic.net
Cc: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: 1974 XLT 390 maybe
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 03:07 PM 7/8/97 -0500, Donald R. Screen wrote:
>


>Anybody else got a horror story like this on their old truck purchase?
>

Boy, you gat me beat. Worse experience I had was with a Ch*vy (sorry
guys!) that had been a diesel and the previous owner swapped in a 400.
Lots of little details he ignored though. :-)

Kevin Lindstedt

1978 F150 Ranger Lariat 2WD 460/C6
(and now working A/C!)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 18:38:08 -0400
From: Ken Payne
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Edelbrock swap question
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11:43 AM 7/8/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Ken writes:
>>I know that with a 390 you can jack it up enough by the crank behind
>>the pulley. I believe the 360 crank can take the stress too but if
>>anyone out there knows this to be untrue please correct me. Loosen
>>the engine mounts and unbolt the tranny mount. A floor jack with
>>a 2x4 (to give the crank a soft surface with a little "give") works.
>>Don't take it up more than a couple of inches, give it the least amount
>>of clearance you can get away with as the engine is heavy (670lbs,
>>not including the intake and exhaust manifolds!) and thats alot of weight
>>on the crank (although they are notoriously strong).
>
> I don't *know* if jacking by the crank is bad, but it would make me nervous..
>
> I'd only be a little worried about bending an FE crank, but even a
> couple thousandths would be enough to cause big trouble.
> Mostly tho, I'd worry about damaging (denting) the front bearing.
> Because the crank journal O.D. is slightly smaller than the bearing I.D,
> with no oil pressure the crank will only contact the bearing along a narrow
> line parallel with the axis of the crank and will see an awfull lot of load
> on a small area with a FE and all the fixins hanging on it.
>
> When the motor is running, a layer of oil under pressure distributes the
> crank forces out across a much larger area.
> Of course it's hard to get the jack to stay under the crank with it running...
>
> Dunno if it hurts or not, but I'd hate to risk shortening my main bearing
> lifespan to change a pan gasket.
>
> Happy motoring,
>
> Steve Delanty
>
> 1971 F100 shortbox, FE390, T-18 4-speed
>

I used this method effectively with my engine. The reason I asked
about the 360 is because it has a lighter crank. I only lifted
my 390 on one side at a time though, about 2 inches to put in a new
engine mounts. Over 10,000 miles since and no problems. I wouldn't
recommend it as a means to completely lift the engine out, like I said,
just enough to get the pan out. It would be best to use a hoist,
especially on a tired engine.

I'm glad you pointed out the bearing issue. That's why I asked
for dissenting opinions on the issue. A local engine builder told
me the crank trick, and quite frankly I had never thought about the
bearings. Next time I'll get a hoist.

-Ken
List Administrator, 1967 Ford F100, 390FE V8
Our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.mindspring.com/~fordtrucks
(subscribe/unsubscribe forms on the web site)
fordtrucks lofcom.com is the 1979 and older truck list,
fordtrucks80up lofcom.com is the 1980 and newer truck list..
(Email me if you're on the wrong list)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 17:31:10 -0400
From: billjhs
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: 51 VIN
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Thanks to all who responded to my question about the 1951 F-1 Vin.
Bill

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 19:48:41 -0400
From: Ken Payne
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com....


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