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fordtrucks-digest Digest Volume 97 : Issue 125

Today's Topics:

Re: Marvel - NOT Snake Oil ["Jim" ]
Re: Marvel - NOT Snake Oil ["chita" ]
Re: SLICK 50 > PROLONG,Others [MLawing616 aol.com ]
Re: C5 tranny? ["Tero Saarelainen" ]
Re: C5 tranny? [Swell61 aol.com ]
Re: Marvel - NOT Snake Oil [Gerald & Lisa Hoel
Re: Marvel snake oil [sdelanty sonoma.net ]
MMO - happy ending? [Ken Payne ]
67 f100 frame [John Strauss
Re: SLICK 50 > PROLONG,Others ["Jason K. Schechner" ]
New exhaust and lift kit installatio [Mike Schwall ]
RANGER ENGINE SWAP ["WAYNE BOWEN"
help [lapaloma sedona.net (Bob & Carole G]
MMO, non-detergent oil, flathead V8, [JRFiero aol.com ]
RE: RANGER ENGINE SWAP [Randy Collins ]
Re: How much Horse Power and Torque [Dave Reynolds ]

Administrivia:

____________________________________________________________________
Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
For help send mail with subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks-digest-request lofcom.com
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____________________________________________________________________


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 03:26:54 -0700
From: "Jim"
To:
Subject: Re: Marvel - NOT Snake Oil
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

You have your right to your opinion, and Ken a right to his! But show me
where Ken questioned your integrity! Your wrong to post a personal attack
about Ken's integrity when he gave his personal opinion and information
concerning Slick 50. If your going to take peoples opinions on products
personally perhaps you should post the products you use and don't use so
people don't give their opinions on them and personally attack you!
Not that I've never been wrong! I don't like it when I am (like now for
instance), but I sure as hell wont stand by when two friends are discussing
something and another comes out of left field with some BS! What
improvements have you experienced using Slick 50? If all that can be said
is "I've used it for many years and it's never caused a problem" that's
fine, but it's not Slick 50's claim! If they advertised that all it did
was, not cause problems then nothing should be said, but they don't.
I have never used Marvel, but on the word of two people that it's a good
solvent I went out and bought some! If I have a negative experience with
this product and post it, I'll bet nether Chita nor Ken would take it
personal!
You like Slick 50 that's fine, there is nothing wrong with it. Split Fires
are as good as any sparkplug on the market does that meet up to their
claims, no! But if people want to use them because they don't do any harm,
I say all the power to them! But I for one would like to hear from people,
their experiences and not get so bent out of shape if I or someone else has
an opposing experience!
Thanks Ken, Chita I'll let you and the list know if I have anything to add
about Marvel, as of now it's as you've said "a good solvent"!
Mike if you didn't mean this to be the way I've taken it I'm sorry! I do
appreciate your opinions and would like to hear more on your experience's
with Slick 50, if it's in a constructive manner! There are far to many
people that get hooked by a scam so they try and hook others so they don't
look so foolish. I do not have that opinion of you and would sincerely like
to hear more on your views!

----------
: From: Michael & Linda Waak
: To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
: Subject: Re: Marvel - NOT Snake Oil
: Date: Sunday, May 25, 1997 11:22 PM
:
: >> Now Ken,
: >>
: >> You get on your soap box and say
: >> that Slick 50 is crap then we should
: >> listen this BS about Marvel Mystery Oil?
: >>
: >> Me thinks somthing is smells a little
: >> funny and it isn't wintergreen!!
: >
: > Actually, it wasn't Ken, it was me.
:
: I have been out of town and didn't read your message until LONG after
Ken's
: message about putting this in the GAS TANK was on there.
: >
: > As to that last remark, it's insulting and groundless. It sounds as if
: >you're saying that I'm lying or Ken's lying or one/both of us have
: >something to gain from saying nice things about the Marvel.
:
: Read above.
:
:
: > BTW, I've been too ashamed to admit it, but I did actually try
: >Slick50 in
: >another car. No discernible effect, but about two months later, that
engine
: >developed an oil leak at the valve cover. I told the mechanic what I'd
: >done, he admonished me and flushed the engine several times and refilled
it
: >with regular oil. I used it another 125,000 miles or so before I gave it
to
: >a neighbor. It was still running well when they put a newer engine in
it.
: >That thing went nearly 200,000 miles without developing another leak.
:
: I'm glad for you. I've had good results with Slick. I don't know (as I've
: posted
: in the past) if it's slick or the fact that I take exceptional care of my
: vehicles but
: WHATEVER.
:
: M
:
:
:
: ____________________________________________________________________
: Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
: For help send mail with subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks-request lofcom.com
: Comments and suggestions are welcome, use: kpayne mindspring.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 05:32:22 -0700
From: "chita"
To:
Subject: Re: Marvel - NOT Snake Oil
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> I have never used Marvel, but on the word of two people that it's a good
> solvent I went out and bought some! If I have a negative experience with
> this product and post it, I'll bet nether Chita nor Ken would take it
> personal!

Of course not. In fact, I'd consider it a favor to hear ALL experiences
with any product. Everything has limits. One of the best benefits of
belonging to a group is that you don't have to do all your own experiments.
Sharing information can save everybody lots of anxiety and trouble. Not to
mention money. It sure beats buying every single thing on the shelf, based
solely on the labels. In this case, if Ken hadn't spoken up about using MMO
to free some rusty bolts, I would have missed the _point_: this is a
solvent. I never would have tried something named Marvel Mystery Oil if not
for hearing specific information that "turned the light bulb on," so to
speak.

I'm sure there are things it won't do as well as some other product. It'd
be fine with me if people spoke up about those limits so I can be spared
the time and energy of finding out for myself.

Speak right up -- whatever you find.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:05:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: MLawing616 aol.com
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: SLICK 50 > PROLONG,Others
Message-ID:

I tried SLICK 50,and had an increase in rpm of 175,so I feel that it does
reduce drag of the pistons moving in the cylinder wall and this could be a
plus for gas milage,however, I then purchased PROLONG,which advertised as
being much safer than SLICK 50,when used in an engine with the oil drained
completely out allowing the engine to continue to run for 200 miles without a
failure,so I now use PROLONG in my 68 F150,with 312,000 miles on the original
6 cyl,with 1 overhaul 168,000, oh by the way, I use CASTROL GT 20w50 and
change every 3000 with a new fram filter,and I never go beyond 12,000 without
a new air cleaner element

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 18:06:36 +0300
From: "Tero Saarelainen"
To:
Subject: Re: C5 tranny?
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

There is C5 transmission. Here is what I found in one book:

"The C5 transmission began production in 1981 and superseded the C4 in
1982. The C5 is fundamentally a modernized version of the C4 with a torque
converter clutch to provide converter lock-up during cruising. The C5
transmission stopped production in 1986, when it was replaced by the AOD
transmission."

The book is Haynes techbook, Ford Automatic transmission overhaul.

I hope this helps You.

Tero Saarelainen
Finland
teros dlc.fi
'61 & '61 F-100 Unibody

----------
Seder: Lee Weber
Receiver: 'FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com'
Subject: C5 tranny?
Date: 25. May 1997 7:39

I recently acquired a 351W with a trans attached that is said to be a
C5...Is there such a thing as a C5?...Can someone give some info on what
makes a C4 different from a C5 different from a C6? (I have found that the
output shaft on this "C5" is like a C4)..

Lee Weber

56 F100 in lots of pieces...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 12:09:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Swell61 aol.com
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: C5 tranny?
Message-ID:

I have an 1984 F250 Dually. A fue days ago the keys started turning 350 beg.
in the colum and don't turn the switch. does the stearing colum need to be
removed to fix it. thanks fo any info. Steve

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 12:22:59 -0700
From: Gerald & Lisa Hoel
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Marvel - NOT Snake Oil
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

this thread has already gone on too long. Ken simply replied to my post
about using a lead additive or anything else in an engine without
hardened valve seats. PERIOD. Let us not bring up old garbage. How does
people's integrity et cetera get into something so simple?

Anyone who wants to start a debate list go ahead, but this is not the
forum for it. Can we leave this finger pointing behind and move on?

Gerald & Lisa
1977 F-150 Flareside

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:13:05 -0700
From: sdelanty sonoma.net
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Marvel snake oil
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Now Ken,
>
>You get on your soap box and say
>that Slick 50 is crap then we should
>listen this BS about Marvel Mystery Oil?
>
>Me thinks somthing is smells a little
>funny and it isn't wintergreen!!

Guess I'll add my $.02 for Marvel mystery oil...

MMO is a good quality light oil with some very powerful solvents
(wintergreen oil and naptha) blended in. Pure wintergreen oil is an
incredible solvent. It does a very good job of dissolving varnish and gums.
Smells nice too...
I mostly repair industrial machinery to feed myself the last 20 years, and
can attest to the fact that varnish and carbon dissolve and are easily
removed after soaking in MMO overnight. It's good stuff for freeing up
rusted and frozen parts.
It's a wonderful lubricant for air tools and air pumps and is the
recommended lubricant by many tool manufacturers.
A little in the fuel tank and crankcase does help free up stubborn lifters
and keep the fuel system clean. It seems to reduce the amount of carbon
buidup on the back of the valve heads and valve stems. I worked for a few
years at an industrial rental yard that started using MMO in industrial
motors in their rental fleet and we saw a reduction in the amount of carbon
buildup related problems in both gas and diesel engines. Engines in welding
equipment often sit at a high rpm idle with no load for hours at a time and
can carbon up very badly, especially the diesels.
Stuck valves were not an uncommon problem. (or hunks of carbon under the
valve face on diesels)
Some MMO in the fuel tank at fill up definately reduced related problems.

I rarely recomend or use additives of any kind in my vehicles and I'm very
much a skeptic when it comes to "snake oil" products.
Marvel mystery oil is a good product. I think it pretty well keeps all the
promises it makes on the can label, and it has proven it's usefuleness to me
*many* times in the last couple decades.
Oh yeah... and it's cheap! (-:

Not an MMO employee or stockholder or anything... Just like the product a lot.

FORD content: I use it in my '71 FE390 shortbox.
4oz. for 10 gal fuel, usually every 2nd or 3rd fillup.
8oz. in crankcase with every 5 qt. oil change.
I think it helps keep my goods clean...

Happy motoring,

Steve Delanty (sdelanty sonoma.net)

1971 F100, FE390, T-18 4-speed shortbox.(fender mounted spare)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 15:58:49 -0400
From: Ken Payne
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: MMO - happy ending?
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I think what raises eyebrows with this product is the name. If you think
about it, who in their right mind would buy a product called "Marvel Mystery
Oil" if someone else didn't tell them about it? I didn't take the comment
about it as an attack on my integrity. I guess that's why we're all here....
how our we going to learn except from each other's experience? And how
can my experience mean anything if I can't back it up? My personal belief
is that products cause so much controversy because there are so many
companies that do lie, have no integrity and just rip people off that any
mention of any product causes others to question it.

I learned about MMO when I was 16 and I worked part-time for a Harley shop.
They would clean everything with that stuff. Old timers would say they put
it in everything in their cars: crank case, gas tank, transmission and radiator
(don't ask why, I don't know!). Its best use (IMHO) is freeing up lifters - it
won't "fix" a bad lifter but it will save a "stuck" one. If "gunk" is the
problem - which can lead to other failures - MMO is the solution. Transmission
fluid works in a similar way (its slightly acidic) but nowhere near as
well - when's the last time you saw a gunked up transmission (other than the pan)?

One thing I want to make clear is that, "List Mom" or not, anyone is welcome
to question my advice or opinions. I have not and will not blackball anyone
for not agreeing and I certainly don't have all the "right" answers.

Am I beating a dead horse?
Later,
Ken

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 15:06:42 -0500 (CDT)
From: John Strauss
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: 67 f100 frame
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>I am in the process of getting my 1967 F-100 on the road. The guy that had it
>before me pulled the tranny and didn't replace the big crossmember that goes
>between the torsion bar(??) mounts directly under the tranny. I have no
idea how
>long he drove it that way, but I am thinking that he did for awhile. Everything
>he did to the truck he did half-assed.
>
Are you sure it was supposed to have one? 3-speed manuals and FMX
automatics often did not use a rear crossmember. My '64 F100 w/FMX doesn't
have one and neither does my '61 Unibody w/3-speed. These trannies have cast
iron cases and are quite content to hang off of the cast iron bellhousing.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 17:14:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Jason K. Schechner"
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: SLICK 50 > PROLONG,Others
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 26 May 1997 MLawing616 aol.com wrote:

> I tried SLICK 50,and had an increase in rpm of 175,so I feel that it does

You say you had an incrase of 175 RPM - I assume that's in
addition to your idle. Did you change anything else in the vehicle, like
the gas grade/brand or or even something like the weather. My 95 Mustang
is computer controlled and idles at the same RPM all the time. My Broncos
(both 79's) on the other hand are carb'ed and idle wherever they
damnedwell please that day. Considering that this is the pre-80 side of
the Fordtrucks list I would guess that your truck is carburetted too.

> reduce drag of the pistons moving in the cylinder wall and this could be a

As I mentioned in my last post about Slick50 - take steel wool to
a Teflon-coated pan and see how quickly the Teflon comes off. Teflon is
DuPont's trademarked name for PTFE, btw, which is S50's "active"
ingredient. Oh, I wouldn't recommend the steel-wool test on a good pan -
you're going to ruin it. Realize that your piston rings scrape the wall
twice per revolution of the engine so even at idle you're scraping at over
1000spm (scrapes per minute :-)). PTFE simply will not stick to the
piston walls under those circumstances.

> plus for gas milage,however, I then purchased PROLONG,which advertised as
> being much safer than SLICK 50,when used in an engine with the oil drained
> completely out allowing the engine to continue to run for 200 miles without a
> failure,so I now use PROLONG in my 68 F150,with 312,000 miles on the original
> 6 cyl,with 1 overhaul 168,000, oh by the way, I use CASTROL GT 20w50 and
> change every 3000 with a new fram filter,and I never go beyond 12,000 without
> a new air cleaner element
>
My recommendation is to check out the Slick50 FAQ (could someone
re-post the URL please? My hard drive crashed last week and I'm not
finished recovering it yet) and it'll explain the no-oil test.


-Jason, certified Slick50 sceptic trying to keep other Fordheads from
getting taken by Slick50's ad department

79 Bronco (351M, C6, 33" BFG AT's) GRN GYNT - offroad monster
79 Bronco (400M, C6, 31" Wranglers) blue - road beast
95 Mustang GT (hers) bone stock
95 Mustang GT (his) Eibachs, 3.55's, K&N, 13deg timing


-----
Jason K. Schechner - Unix Sysadmin - Oracle Corp
check out www.cauce.org and help ban spam-mail.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 16:15:09 -0500
From: Mike Schwall
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com
Subject: New exhaust and lift kit installation
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Well, I finally got the lift kit installed. Looks great. The headers
arrived two weeks ago, but was short one reducer. I called Summit and they
said they would ship one out ASAP. Well a week passed and no reducer. I
called back and they said it was shiped the day before - ground. So it
looks like it won't arrive till next Wed.

I sand blasted the headers and sprayed them down with acetone. Then
sprayed them with VHT flat black header paint and cured them in the kitchen
oven. That VHT paint is some pretty good stuff. They want you to keep the
can 15" away from the surface while spraying. It makes a very light coat.
After it is cured, the paint feels powdery. The tubes are still black, but
the paint on the surface will rub off. Guess that is how the paint
survives up to 1500F - more surface area to help cool it.

The mufflers arrive the same time as the headers. Walker Dynomax Super
turbos. 2 1/4" offset/offset. Once I get the reducer I will take it to a
local shop to get the 2 1/4" aluminized pipe bent.

As I said before I am taking pictures of everything and once the film gets
developed, I will scan them in and put them on my web page (URL is in the
sig).

I will have the complete war story on the lift kit installation on my web
page.. It took all day (11:00am to 7:00pm) Saturday to install the 2" lift
kit.

When I get the exhaust installed, I wil post another update.

Mike

_____________________________________________

Email: mikes phoenix.net
Home Page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.phoenix.net/~mikes
Ford Page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.phoenix.net/~mikes/fordarea.htm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 20:16:39 -0500
From: "WAYNE BOWEN"
To:
Subject: RANGER ENGINE SWAP
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

My B-in law bought an 87 ranger that the previous owner had droped in a 302
from an 85 mustang GT. The following week the engine threw the # 4 & 8
rods(not a pretty sight). So I as A mechanic got volunteered to install a
new long block. My problem is that the guy who put the 1st 302 in did it
half a$ and didnt mount the motor to the frame correctly. Does anyone
know of a manufacturer who makes motor mounts that will bolt directly to
the motor and frame without making any major modifications. I also need a
lower radiator hose, the previous owner had installed a flex hose that had
a crimped 90 degree bend restricting coolant flow. This is the first time i
have had the oppurtunity to do this swap so any help would be greatly
appreciated. thanks Wayne Bowen
fordfan series2000.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 18:29:39 -0700 (MST)
From: lapaloma sedona.net (Bob & Carole Galpin)
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: help
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>To: fordtrucks80up-digest lofcom.com
>From: lapaloma sedona.net (Bob & Carole Galpin)
>Subject: help
>
>>To: fordtrucks80up-digest lofcom.com
>>From: lapaloma sedona.net (Bob & Carole Galpin)
>>Subject: help
>>
>>looking for information compareing 1980-1981 f-250 4x4 c-6 transmission
MPG and power 400 cu. in. V8 vs. 300 cu. in. 6
also, what year did ford go to fuel injection on both of these engines
also, what year did ford go to electronic ignition on both of these engines
,is there a noticable difference in power between the 400 cu. in. vs. the
351 cu. in.
>>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 21:41:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: JRFiero aol.com
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: MMO, non-detergent oil, flathead V8, etc...
Message-ID:

A while back we had a brief discussion of using detergent oil in an engine
which had ( I assume ) spent its life with non-detergent. The recent thread
about Marvel Mystery Oil as a solvent has me wondering again.
To recap briefly, I recently acquired a '51 F1 with a Mercury flathead V8,
installed in the 60s. My first oil change revealed yucky prehistoric black
stuff. I put in 40W non-detergent, STP (don't start), and one quart of
20W-50. One suggestion, which I thought was a good one, was to pull the pan,
clean it out (and I'd do the oil pump screen, etc), before switching to
detergent oil, then change said detergent oil after a brief period, 100 miles
or so. I haven't done it yet 'cause it sounds like a pain in the neck.
Anyway - anybody have any thoughts on using MMO for a short period, then
changing to detergent oil for a slightly longer period?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 21:25:22 -0700
From: Randy Collins
To: "'fordtrucks lofcom.com'"
Subject: RE: RANGER ENGINE SWAP
Message-ID:
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC6A1B.7971E5A0"

------ =_NextPart_000_01BC6A1B.7971E5A0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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From: WAYNE BOWEN [SMTP:FordFan series2000.com]

My B-in law bought an 87 ranger that the previous owner had droped in a 302
from an 85 mustang GT. The following week the engine threw the # 4 & 8
rods(not a pretty sight). So I as A mechanic got volunteered to install a
new long block. My problem is that the guy who put the 1st 302 in did it
half a$ and didnt mount the motor to the frame correctly. Does anyone
know of a manufacturer who makes motor mounts that will bolt directly to
the motor and frame without making any major modifications. I also need a
lower radiator hose, the previous owner had installed a flex hose that had
a crimped 90 degree bend restricting coolant flow. This is the first time i
have had the oppurtunity to do this swap so any help would be greatly
appreciated. thanks Wayne Bowen
fordfan series2000.com

Wayne,

Try advance adapters and L & L Products.

L & L can be reached at:

3210 Century Drive
Rowlett TX 75088
(214) 475-5202

I can't seem to locate my advance adapter catalog. If you can't find their number drop me a note and I will get it for you.


Randy Collins
Boise, Idaho
rcollins micron.net

1975 Ford Supercab Longbed Muscle Truck (mostly in pieces)
Soon to have the following Randy installed options:
F250 4WD 460 C-6


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