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------------------------------

Content-Type: text/plain

fordtrucks-digest Digest Volume 97 : Issue 124

Today's Topics:

RE: supercharged flathead [Ethan Vos ]
C5 tranny? [Lee Weber ]
Re: C5 tranny? [JSanc82344 aol.com ]
Re: C5 tranny? [Doug Neely
Valve seats question - continued [Tkaczyk ]
Re: Valve seats question - continued [Ken Payne ]
RE: Valve seats question - continued [mcat epix.net ]
67 F100 Frame [DC Beatty
Marvel Mystery Oil ["chita" ]
Marvel Snake Oil [Michael & Linda Waak
Re: Marvel - NOT Snake Oil ["chita" ]
Re: Marvel Snake Oil [Ken Payne ]
Re: Marvel Snake Oil [FOMOCONUT aol.com ]
Re: Marvel - NOT Snake Oil [Michael & Linda Waak

Administrivia:

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Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
For help send mail with subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks-digest-request lofcom.com
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____________________________________________________________________


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:26:03 -0400
From: Ethan Vos
To: "'fordtrucks lofcom.com'"
Subject: RE: supercharged flathead
Message-ID:
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC6882.96FC5E10"

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Just co-incidentally what I've got is an F-500.

Anyone got any more info?

-----Original Message-----
From: mcat epix.net [SMTP:mcat epix.net]
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 1997 7:05 PM
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: RE: supercharged flathead

Funny you should ask, as a kid in the fifty`s my neighbor worked for
New York State transportion. He drove a 56 f-500 crew cab! Parked it in
the driveway every night. I belive these were specialy built but not by
Ford. I don`t find this as an option in any old factory books so they had
to be custom. Idon`t know what ever happened to these trucks but there
must be some around somewere.
--- On Sat, 24 May 1997 10:50:46 -0400 Ethan Vos
wrote:

>Can anyone help me or does anyone know where to get info about building a
supercharged flathead.
>
>It's either that or a 460, but I think the flathead would be a lot
cooler?
>
>Has anyone ever seen a crew cab for a 53-56? How could one be done?
>
>

-----------------End of Original Message-----------------


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Name: Garry
E-mail: mcat epix.net
Date: 5/24/97 Time: 4:05:06 PM

427 Fe powered 56 F-100 Wild by design
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


____________________________________________________________________
Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
For help send mail with subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks-request lofcom.com
Comments and suggestions are welcome, use: kpayne mindspring.com




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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 21:39:18 -0700
From: Lee Weber
To: "'FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com'"
Subject: C5 tranny?
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I recently acquired a 351W with a trans attached that is said to be a =
C5...Is there such a thing as a C5?...Can someone give some info on what =
makes a C4 different from a C5 different from a C6? (I have found that =
the output shaft on this "C5" is like a C4)..

Lee Weber

56 F100 in lots of pieces...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:05:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: JSanc82344 aol.com
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: C5 tranny?
Message-ID:

Lee, I don't think there was ever a C-5 transmission however I don't know for
sure. I do have a 56 f100 with several modifications and perhaps you'd like
to keep in touch, I' ll be glad to help you when possible. My e-mail is
JSanc82344 aol.com.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 23:13:02 -0700
From: Doug Neely
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: C5 tranny?
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Lee Weber wrote:
> Lee,
It might be an FMX,it dosen't have the servo casting and cover
behind the shift levers on the drivers side.Is the casting
numbers on the trans case C5MP 7006A , if so you have an FMX.

Cheers,
Doug


> I recently acquired a 351W with a trans attached that is said to be a C5...Is there such a thing as a C5?...Can someone give some info on what makes a C4 different from a C5 different from a C6? (I have found that the output shaft on this "C5" is like a C4)..
>
> Lee Weber
>
> 56 F100 in lots of pieces...
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
> For help send mail with subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks-request lofcom.com
> Comments and suggestions are welcome, use: kpayne mindspring.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 10:34:20 -0400
From: Tkaczyk
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Valve seats question - continued
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I've seen several replies to the question about engines without hardened
valve seats. I'm about to install a small block Ford into my 55 F100,
and I'm undecided on whether to pull the heads and add hardened seats
first, or just install the engine as is and run with the lead
substitute. Ken mentioned Marvel Mystery oil, but I'm unclear if he
does/does not also add the lead substitute, or if he even has the old
type seats. Does anyone have an opinion on these 2 options (add
hardened seats or just add lead substitute, ongoing)? Thanks.

Gary

55 F100, 9" rear 3.00:1, SMF, C4.
84 and 85 BroncoII

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 11:02:07 -0400
From: Ken Payne
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Valve seats question - continued
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:34 AM 5/25/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I've seen several replies to the question about engines without hardened
>valve seats. I'm about to install a small block Ford into my 55 F100,
>and I'm undecided on whether to pull the heads and add hardened seats
>first, or just install the engine as is and run with the lead
>substitute. Ken mentioned Marvel Mystery oil, but I'm unclear if he
>does/does not also add the lead substitute, or if he even has the old
>type seats. Does anyone have an opinion on these 2 options (add
>hardened seats or just add lead substitute, ongoing)? Thanks.
>
> Gary

-snip-

Marvel Mystery oil is not a lead substitute. The advice I've always
heard about valve seats is that if you're rebuilding the engine go
ahead and take the extra time to do it. If you're not rebuilding
it then its not worth the time (unless you need a valve job anyway).
My 390 ran with the old type seats for 250,000 miles with no problems.
I never used a lead additive, just 1 oz of MMO for every 10 gallons
of gas. Did a rebuild, the engine was still in good shape as was the
valve train. The farmer I bought it from babied it but I'm kinda
hard on the gas pedal so it got rebuilt mainly because I wanted
to make sure it was in top notch shape for the new cam. Now it has
290,000 miles and its still going strong. Oh, I don't think the farmer
even knows what lead substitute is... I'm no expert on this - you
probably need more opinions than mine!

-Ken
1967 Ford F100, 390FE V8
List Maintainer, send comments or suggestions to: kpayne mindspring.com
Visit our web site (subscribe/unsubscribe forms are there):
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 May 97 16:42:39 PDT
From: mcat epix.net
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: RE: Valve seats question - continued
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii

Gary
I run a 56 f-100 with a 427 sideoiler that does not have
hardened valve seats. It does have stainles valves. The truck runs 93
octane unleaded with no problems. Valve ression happens when the motor is
under constant load such as boats or lawnmowers. I`ve seen this happen
alot. If you drive like most people the motor revs vary while traveling
down the highway even with cruse control. Boats are underconstant load in
the water and the rpms don`t change like they do in a car, same goes for a
lawnmower. There was an article in Hemmings a couple of years ago that
explaned valve ression in detail. Can`t remeber who wrote it, but
itexplained when hardened valveseats were needed. Seems that the motor
needs them more at 3/4 to wide open throttle. Hope this helps.
Garry


--- On Sun, 25 May 1997 10:34:20 -0400 Tkaczyk wrote:

>I've seen several replies to the question about engines without hardened
>valve seats. I'm about to install a small block Ford into my 55 F100,
>and I'm undecided on whether to pull the heads and add hardened seats
>first, or just install the engine as is and run with the lead
>substitute. Ken mentioned Marvel Mystery oil, but I'm unclear if he
>does/does not also add the lead substitute, or if he even has the old
>type seats. Does anyone have an opinion on these 2 options (add
>hardened seats or just add lead substitute, ongoing)? Thanks.
>
> Gary
>
>55 F100, 9" rear 3.00:1, SMF, C4.
>84 and 85 BroncoII
>
>
>____________________________________________________________________
>Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
>For help send mail with subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks-request lofcom.com
>Comments and suggestions are welcome, use: kpayne mindspring.com
>
>

-----------------End of Original Message-----------------


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Name: Garry
E-mail: mcat epix.net
Date: 5/25/97 Time: 4:42:39 PM

427 Fe powered 56 F-100 Wild by design
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Date: 25 May 97 18:15:43 EDT
From: DC Beatty
To: "'FORD TRUCKS'"
Subject: 67 F100 Frame
Message-ID:

I am in the process of getting my 1967 F-100 on the road. The guy that had it
before me pulled the tranny and didn't replace the big crossmember that goes
between the torsion bar(??) mounts directly under the tranny. I have no idea how
long he drove it that way, but I am thinking that he did for awhile. Everything
he did to the truck he did half-assed.

I noticed some odd things on the passenger side of the truck. The front cabmount
lower bushing is missing (I mentioned this earlier), and one of the rivets that
holds the torsion bar to the frame is loosening. Also, the lower shock mount on
that side has some extra space between the mounting bolt and the rubber donut in
the shock.

My question is, could the frame be damaged or twisted by him driving it with
this crossmember out? I have a crossmember from a 1971 and was trying to put it
in today. It fought me all the way. Is there a trick to installing this?

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

DC Beatty
1967 F-100 352
1974 Maverick 302

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:44:09 -0700
From: "chita"
To:
Subject: Marvel Mystery Oil
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

----------
> From: Ken Payne
> To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
> Subject: Re: Valve seats question - continued
> Date: Sunday, May 25, 1997 8:02 AM

> I never used a lead additive, just 1 oz of MMO for every 10 gallons
> of gas. Did a rebuild, the engine was still in good shape as was the
> valve train. The farmer I bought it from babied it but I'm kinda
> hard on the gas pedal so it got rebuilt mainly because I wanted
> to make sure it was in top notch shape for the new cam. Now it has
> 290,000 miles and its still going strong. Oh, I don't think the farmer
> even knows what lead substitute is... I'm no expert on this - you
> probably need more opinions than mine!

Since I had seen some of your blunt remarks about Slick50 and the like, I
listened carefully when you made a favorable mention of Marvel Mystery Oil.
(I wish they'd change the name! It sounds like the usual snake oil.)

Confession: I have a Ford truck, but I also have another, tiny import
truck. It just reached 100,000 miles and the last few weeks, I've been
scheduling various work for it. Nothing had ever gone wrong. It's never
even had a tuneup. There's a hill near my home. The last few weeks, the car
has gone up that hill slower and slower. When I looked in the oil filler
hole, I could see it was a bit grungy in there. Well... it's a cheap truck,
it's not Big Blue (the Ford) and I'm about to give it a big cleanup anyway,
and it's almost a quart low, so... I bought my first ever can of Marvel and
added about 4-5 ounces to a half quart of Castrol 10-30. Poured it in with
crossed fingers. About 40 miles later, I went up that hill again. It's
going up 15 miles an hour faster, nearly all the hesitation and low power
are gone and it sounds smoother. I pop the oil filler cap and peek -- the
timing chain is visibly cleaner. I'm amazed.

I tried to look up what was in it. The descriptions seem to be, "a light
machine oil with naphtha and wintergreen." Whatever - I'm VERY pleased.
And impressed. I didn't have time to work on it and I feel as if the MMO
really did make an improvement well worth the $2. I used Techron in the gas
and it did seem to smooth things out a bit, but not much. California has
this nasty smelly alcohol-blend gasoline which killed off about 12% of the
truck's previous mileage. D'ya think MMO might help that too?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 18:12:22 -0800
From: Michael & Linda Waak
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Marvel Snake Oil
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Now Ken,

You get on your soap box and say
that Slick 50 is crap then we should
listen this BS about Marvel Mystery Oil?

Me thinks somthing is smells a little
funny and it isn't wintergreen!!

M

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 18:55:10 -0700
From: "chita"
To:
Subject: Re: Marvel - NOT Snake Oil
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Now Ken,
>
> You get on your soap box and say
> that Slick 50 is crap then we should
> listen this BS about Marvel Mystery Oil?
>
> Me thinks somthing is smells a little
> funny and it isn't wintergreen!!

Actually, it wasn't Ken, it was me. I do, however, share Ken's opinion
about Slick50. So does the Federal Trade Commission. Unlike Slick50, which
boasts of a miracle effect from an ingedient which has ZERO scientific
basis for the claim, the Marvel product contains ingedients which might be
reasonably expected to clean oily dirt: both naphtha and wintergreen being
prime candidates all by themselves. That's a far cry from the
scientifically NON-credible status of Teflon resin.

As to that last remark, it's insulting and groundless. It sounds as if
you're saying that I'm lying or Ken's lying or one/both of us have
something to gain from saying nice things about the Marvel. Ken can speak
for himself, I'm sure, but for me: it's a ridiculous charge. I passed on my
experience, nothing more. I've never used the product before. I will buy
more of it, since my experience was excellent.

BTW, I've been too ashamed to admit it, but I did actually try Slick50 in
another car. No discernible effect, but about two months later, that engine
developed an oil leak at the valve cover. I told the mechanic what I'd
done, he admonished me and flushed the engine several times and refilled it
with regular oil. I used it another 125,000 miles or so before I gave it to
a neighbor. It was still running well when they put a newer engine in it.
That thing went nearly 200,000 miles without developing another leak.



------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 22:43:10 -0400
From: Ken Payne
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Marvel Snake Oil
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Now Ken,
>
>You get on your soap box and say
>that Slick 50 is crap then we should
>listen this BS about Marvel Mystery Oil?
>
The FTC hasn't dropped the charges against Slick 50. I offered everyone
the chance to give us a link to a web page that had a scientific rebutal
to the Snake Oil article. I was completely fair in this - not one person
publicly or privately took me up on it. I'm still open to any links
you might have and I will put the link on our web site - both sides of
the story will be presented if someone can give me the other side.

Marvel Mystery oil is a solvent, not a mircle cure or additive. I never
claimed it was anything other than a solvent. It got its name decades
ago from the Marvel carb (engine?). As a solvent it cleans, it does not
"coat your engine and protect against startup wear." It does not "bond
to your engine to protect vital parts." It does not "protect for up to
50,000 miles." It works the same way carb cleaner and engine flush do.
Talk to any engine pro about using a small amount of transmission fluid
to free up gummed lifters. MMO is similar. Go to rec.tech.autos and ask
any of the Master L1 technicians about its use with lifters. Its not a
mircle oil, its a cleaner. It just uses time proven (50+ years) solvents
to get the job done. There's nothing sensational about it. And the FTC
never investigated them - MMO does not make unproven claims. All they
say is that it is a solvent/top end lube - nothing else.

As a matter of fact, its not a good idea to run with it in your crank case
for long if its really dirty. If you put it in there, flush the engine
after a day as it gets the gunk out and its thinner than motor oil so it
may not be a good idea to run it for an extended period of time.

>Me thinks somthing is smells a little
>funny and it isn't wintergreen!!
>
>M
>

I stand by what I said. I've used in to free up stuck piston rings in
old motorcycle engines, loosen frozen exhaust manifold bolts, clean
carbs, clean out rusted gas tanks (throw in MMO, some gas and a few nuts
and bolts and shake vigorously) and ungum stuck lifters. Take off your
valve covers, soak a little MMO on it for a while, take a towel to them
and it will take the varnish right off the inside of the covers. It took
29 years of varnish off my FoMoCo valve covers on my 390 with no heavy
elbow grease. No different than alot of the applications of WD40 and
Naptha. I have 12 years of personal experience to back-up it up. When's
the last time you needed to free up a stuck ring, unfreeze a rusted bolt
or ungum a lifter? I've run into many cases where I needed a good solvent
and I use what works - MMO, mineral spirits, carb dip (careful, its not
good for you!) and WD-40 (or similar) penetrating oil. Try the simple
varnish test, come back and tell us your results.

I've never heard anyone claim it will increase engine life, boost milage,
reduce friction or protect at start up. I've only heard it cleans really
well and it makes a decent top end lube. Now what is it about these claims
that smells of BS? Seriously, I'm open to anyone's comments or experience.
Lets just not get flames going here - that's why I backed out of the Slick
50 argument weeks ago because it got way out of hand with people calling
each other names.

Ken

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 22:47:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: FOMOCONUT aol.com
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Marvel Snake Oil
Message-ID:

Plain and Simple........
Marvel Mystery Oil is what most everyone says it is..... A very good high
detergent solvent/lubricant. This product when used correctly for several
different reasons is indespensible to the profesional Mechanic's tool box and
should be for hobbiest's as well. For everything from lubricating pnuematic
equpment to freeing sticky valves to aid in desludging engines this " Snake
oil " as the less informed may like to call it is truley a Marvel. I
personally have seen it do it's bussiness and saved many a engine from
demise. Having been a Professional Mechanic for over twenty years that does
not believe in any additives whatsoever, this is one product I reccomend
highly.


John L. Miller
96 F-350, 460
86 Bronco II
68 F-250, 390

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 22:22:04 -0800
From: Michael & Linda Waak
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Marvel - NOT Snake Oil
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>> Now Ken,
>>
>> You get on your soap box and say
>> that Slick 50 is crap then we should
>> listen this BS about Marvel Mystery Oil?
>>
>> Me thinks somthing is smells a little
>> funny and it isn't wintergreen!!
>
> Actually, it wasn't Ken, it was me.

....


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