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Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:35:39 -0400 (EDT)
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fordtrucks-digest Digest Volume 97 : Issue 123

Today's Topics:

Re: 390 question [Gerald & Lisa Hoel
Engine Swap in 1966 F100 [John Strauss
360/390 for 66 F-100 [AM14 chrysler.com ]
UNSUBSCRIBE FORDTRUCKS-DIGEST [Harve Byrd ]
Re: FoMoCo Build sheets [Ken Payne ]
Re: 390 question [Ken Payne ]
Re: 390 question ["chita" ]
Re.: 390 Question ["The Zahns"
Re: 390 question [Ken Payne ]
Re: Excessive charge for service [Jeff Fairbairn
Re: Engine Swap in a 1966 Ford F100 [sdelanty sonoma.net ]
F-68 [billjhs ]
supercharged flathead [Ethan Vos ]
Re: supercharged flathead [Scooch13in aol.com ]
Re: F-68 ["C.D. Mutch"
RE: supercharged flathead [mcat epix.net ]
Re: F-68 [DRUMMER329 aol.com ]

Administrivia:

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 10:35:26 -0700
From: Gerald & Lisa Hoel
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: 390 question
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Does anyone without hardened valve seats use a lead additive or is it
unnecessary?? Is there an alternative to lead additive/substitute?
Thanks.


Gerald & Lisa
'77 150 Flareside 351M

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 10:45:39 -0500
From: John Strauss
To: Ford Trucks List
Subject: Engine Swap in 1966 F100
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>I have had several people tell me, including a couple of people on this
>list, that I should be able to pull the 240 six cylinder currently in the
>truck and bolt in a 360FE, 390FE, etc. Well I guess I would feel better
if >I knew the answer to a few other questions and I do not have any
friends >that have older model Fords that I can look under the hood and
verify this >for myself. I am a Computer Programmer/Analyst by day and
wannabe shade >tree mechanic at night. I don't have an engine stand, and
some of the >other high dollar tools that I would probably use only once,
so I will have >to beg, borrow or rent them. If I have to rent them, I want
to make sure >this is going to work before I start this project. Anyway.
>
This should be the easiest swap you can make because the 352 FE was an
option on the 1966 trucks. 360/390 are also FE motors (get the 390).

>1. My biggest concern is the fact that the clutch linkage relies on a shaft
>that runs from the side of the block on the 240 to a bracket bolted on top
>of the frame. Does a 360, 390, what ever I put in their going to have a
>place on the engine block to mount the shaft for the clutch into??.
>
Yes. On the engine is a ball that screws into the engine. The new engine
will have a threaded hole on the side of the block just like your Six.

>2. The Steering Gear Box rests on top of the frame, just in front of the
>Bracket for the Clutch. Will this be in the way of the new engine??
>
No. The mounting of the steering box is the same for V8 and Six models.

>3. The Motor Mount Supports are welded to the frame, am I going to have to
>move them?? If I have to move them, I will have to take the truck to a
>welding shop and let them do it.
>
Do you have two mounts on either side or is there one in front of the
motor? The engines on my '61 and '64 just have a big plate bolted to the
front of the engine that mounts to the frame just behind the radiator. Is
this not the case on yours? If not, this change was probably made in 1965
when TIB was introduced. In that case, I am pretty sure the towers that
are welded stay put and you just need different mounts (goes between the
engine and the tower).

>4. Wiring for the new motor. As far as I know the only wires I should have
>to worry about are the,
>a. Cable going to the starter.
>b. Wire going to the distributor, are there the same number of wires with
>the same number of connectors, or do I have to redo these wires.
>c. Wire going to the alternator, are there the same number of wires with
>the same number of connectors, or do I have to redo these wires.
>Am I missing any ??
>
That's probably it. The wiring will be exactly the same as your Six as far
as components are concerned. You might have to lengthen/shorten some wires
to accomodate new locations for the items you mentioned.

>5. Am I going to have to have to have the radiator modified in any way,
>increase it's capacity, move the inlet and outlet?
>
Most likely, yes. You should get a radiator for a 1966 F100 w/352 V8.

>6. With the Clutch Linkage setup the way it is, am I going to have room to
>install Headers??
>
Sure, just order them for a 1966 F100 w/manual trans and 352 V8, if you can
find somebody who makes them.

>Who knows what else I am missing, but I think I have already made this
>project sound a lot bigger and harder than I should.
>
Since the engine you want to put in is identical (externally) to an engine
that was available from the factory on your truck, you should be able to
find everything you need over the counter at a local parts store.

John

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 May 97 13:22:23 EDT
From: AM14 chrysler.com
To: "FOMOCO Truck B/S list"
Subject: 360/390 for 66 F-100
Message-Id:

Herb: Both of these are "FE" engines. All "FE" engines carry the same
bellhousing, motormount, clutch, etc bolt patterns. The 1966 standard V8 was a
352, also an "FE" engine. Find one in your local salvage yard and get all the
necessary hardware and wiring. Try to stay away from the 360. Very low
compression. The 390 is an excellent choice and very available in most areas.
Was a very popular engine from '61 thru '67 in Fords/Mercs/T'birds. If you
really want power the CJ version of a 428 would be a good choice, but the
428/410 is balanced externally and requires a different flywheel and front
vibration damper from the rest of the "FE" family. Here is a list of "FE"
engines as I know them:

332; 352; 360; 390; 406; 410; 427; 428. Produced from 1958 thru 1976(I think).

Bill: 390 should last as long without hardened valve seats as with hardened
valve seats, provided you set the timing not to 'ping'/use hi octane fuel.

WORKING TO BE THE BEST
Azie Magnusson
PROFS ID (AM14):E-Mail AM14 Chrysler.com
Tie Line (835-2578):Outside (205)464-2578

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 11:50:46 -0700
From: Harve Byrd
To: "'FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com'"
Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE FORDTRUCKS-DIGEST
Message-ID:

UNSUBSCRIBE FORDTRUCKS-DIGEST

Harve Byrd
Escalation Manager, Critical Problem Resolution (CPR)
Microsoft* Enterprise Technical Support (ETS)
* iNet: Harveb microsoft.com
*Wk: 704-582-8852
*Pgr: Urgent V-Mail or
800-579-3137

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:29:26 -0400
From: Ken Payne
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: FoMoCo Build sheets
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 09:30 PM 5/22/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Somehow I missed getting the e-mail address for Ford, to e-mail them
>with the VIN number of my truck, to get the build sheet.
>
>Can you please provide me with the e-mail address?
>
>Much thanks!
>
>Respond to:
>nancyjd ix.netcom.com
>
>

cacinfo ford.com

This is only good for 67-86 trucks (which I guess you would have
since you're on this list).

-Ken Payne
1967 Ford F100 Custom Cab, 390 FE V8
List maintainer, send me comments and suggestions.
Visit the Ford Truck Enthusiast List Web Page (unsubscribe
form is there): http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:29:27 -0400
From: Ken Payne
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: 390 question
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:35 AM 5/23/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Does anyone without hardened valve seats use a lead additive or is it
>unnecessary?? Is there an alternative to lead additive/substitute?
>Thanks.
>
>
>Gerald & Lisa
>'77 150 Flareside 351M
>
>

I run Marvel Mystery Oil, not as a lead substitute but because it
keeps the carb clean (I can testify to this) and is supposed to
be a good top end lube (don't know about this one). My valve train
has 290,000+ miles on it.

-Ken Payne
1967 Ford F100 Custom Cab, 390 FE V8
List maintainer, send me comments and suggestions.
Visit the Ford Truck Enthusiast List Web Page (unsubscribe
form is there): http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:01:11 -0700
From: "chita"
To:
Subject: Re: 390 question
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

----------
> From: Ken Payne

> I run Marvel Mystery Oil, not as a lead substitute but because it
> keeps the carb clean (I can testify to this) and is supposed to
> be a good top end lube (don't know about this one). My valve train
> has 290,000+ miles on it.

What is that stuff anyway (the Marvel)? I just bought my first can because
so many people think it's a good solvent. It smells familiar but I can't
put my finger on it. Is it some variation of another car fluid - like auto
trans fluid or something? It floated on top of 10-30 Castrol. Does it do
that in the engine too?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:48:08 -0700
From: "The Zahns"
To:
Subject: Re.: 390 Question
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Bill,
The 390 is a great engine capable of several hundred thousand miles
with proper maintenance. 79K is nothing for the 390. The question I have
is about the last 650 miles and how long the engine sat between those
miles. Did you drive it 2-3 miles a month for the last 22 years? Probably
not. How did you prime the engine before you started it after sitting for
several years? Starting an engine dry like that can put a lot of wear on
the bearing and rings without oil on them. I know because I did it. A
while back there were several listings about how to prepare an engine that
has been sitting for long periods of time. I wonder where you find the
high octane gas to run that high compression engine without it pinging. My
old 390 used to require 95 octane+ or it would sure let me know.
Fred
71 F350 Utility (429/C6)
89 E350 Club ( 460 )
84 Thunderbird (3.0) sons
96 Taurus (3.0) wives


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:20:21 -0400
From: Ken Payne
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: 390 question
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:01 PM 5/23/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>----------
>> From: Ken Payne
>
>> I run Marvel Mystery Oil, not as a lead substitute but because it
>> keeps the carb clean (I can testify to this) and is supposed to
>> be a good top end lube (don't know about this one). My valve train
>> has 290,000+ miles on it.
>
> What is that stuff anyway (the Marvel)? I just bought my first can because
>so many people think it's a good solvent. It smells familiar but I can't
>put my finger on it. Is it some variation of another car fluid - like auto
>trans fluid or something? It floated on top of 10-30 Castrol. Does it do
>that in the engine too?
>

In addition to whatever solvent it has there is also wintergreen extract.
That's probably what you smell. This extract in its purest form is an
excellant cleaner. I've soaked old carbs in it, cleans them real quickly.
Does wonders for frozen rings and rusted bolts. I've run it in the gas tank
and in the crank case (not much in there though, and yes it does mix with
the oil). All the "old-timers" I've met swear by it and it's always worked
for me. Now this stuff isn't some supposed miracle like Slick 50, its just
a very good solvent that also works well as a top end lube. I used it in
about 3 tankfuls of my wife's car and it cleared the injectors (no substitute
though for taken them out and doing it right).

-Ken Payne
1967 Ford F100 Custom Cab, 390 FE V8
List maintainer, send me comments and suggestions.
Visit the Ford Truck Enthusiast List Web Page (unsubscribe
form is there): http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:55:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Fairbairn
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Excessive charge for service
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 09:03 PM 5/22/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Yep, you got ripped off, unless you just have to go to a Ford Dealer, don't.
>They once tried to charge me a little over $350 to tell me about two codes
>that were the standard clear code and brake test code. I chewed a service
>manager for about 20 minutes and got a full refund. The problem was, I
>shouldn't have had to do that.
>
>Just my 2 cents.
>
>Charlie
>
>
>____________________________________________________________________
>Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
>For help send mail with subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks-request lofcom.com
>Comments and suggestions are welcome, use: kpayne mindspring.com
>
>
> I live in Canada (Quebec) and even those charges seem very high. The
standard charge to change the oil and check the brakes up here runs about
$23 (includes 15% tax) for the oil and about $30 to check the brakes. That is
at the dealerships also, it can be done cheaper also at other places. For
the severe climate packages are for Nothern Canada.

Regards,
Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:17:03 -0700
From: sdelanty sonoma.net
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Engine Swap in a 1966 Ford F100
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Keith writes:

> I
>don't have an engine stand, and some of the other high dollar tools that I
>would probably use only once, so I will have to beg, borrow or rent them. If I
>have to rent them, I want to make sure this is going to work before I start
>this project. Anyway.

You will want an engine stand for the rebuild, and a engine hoist for the
install.
The hoist You will only need for a day, so a rental is O.K.
The engine stand You may want for several weeks so it's usually worthwile
to buy one. You can buy one thats durable enough for FE use for under $75.
One borrowed from a friend is even better...
The only other "high?" dollar tool is a good torque wrench.


>1. My biggest concern is the fact that the clutch linkage relies on a shaft
>that runs from the side of the block on the 240 to a bracket bolted on top of
>the frame. Does a 360, 390, what ever I put in their going to have a place on
>the engine block to mount the shaft for the clutch into??.

The 240/300 blocks have a threaded hole that the "clutch pivot stud" screws
into.
The FE doesn't have this hole. I found a nut that fit the pivot stud and welded
it to a 5" long piece of 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" long angle iron. I drilled 2 holes
in the angle and secured it to the motor with 2 very convienantly located
motor mount bolts. (one on each side of the correct stud location :-)
I'm sure I could have gone to the auto wreckers and bought the same thing
but with a Ford part number on it off a FE/manual tranny truck, but it only
took about 15 minutes to make what I needed at home and the wreckers is over
an hour round trip...
Once the motor is in place it's real obvious what You need and where it
needs to go. Maybe someone else can describe the "stock" setup for You.
Once the pivot stud is in place the 6cyl pivot shaft and linkages fit fine.


>2. The Steering Gear Box rests on top of the frame, just in front of the
>Bracket for the Clutch. Will this be in the way of the new engine??

The steer box sits on the frame on my '71 also and it clears the 390 by
plenty, headers and all.


>3. The Motor Mount Supports are welded to the frame, am I going to have to
move
>them?? If I have to move them, I will have to take the truck to a welding shop
>and let them do it.

Yes, the mount supports sit at the same width, but 2-3/8" farther rearward
for FE vs. 240/6. The supports on the '71 *bolt on* and the correct holes
for FE were already factory punched in the frame. I just got my ratchet out
and moved them. (-:
You will need to have Yours moved back.


>4. Wiring for the new motor. As far as I know the only wires I should have to
>worry about are the,
>a. Cable going to the starter.
>b. Wire going to the distributor, are there the same number of wires with the
>same number of connectors, or do I have to redo these wires.
>c. Wire going to the alternator, are there the same number of wires with the
>same number of connectors, or do I have to redo these wires.
>Am I missing any ??

Starter, engine/battery ground, ign coil, elect choke, oil pressure, H2O
temp, 3 wires on alt.
I had to lengthen the oil pressure wire about 6" to make it reach.
Everything else just plugged right in on my '71.


>5. Am I going to have to have to have the radiator modified in any way,
>increase it's capacity, move the inlet and outlet?

Yes, the 6 cyl rad is inadequate for FE use, plus the inlet/outlet are in
the wrong place. On the '71 the correct mounting holes for the FE radiator
were already there, but I had to trim out a piece of sheet metal about 4"
wide to fit the wider FE rad. This piece was obviously meant to be stamped
out at the factory on FE trucks. A brand new stock 3 row Modine radiator for
FE truck use is only $200 and was a good investment for me.
I wasted that much on leaky junkyard radiators and repairs before I finally
wised up. I really love having a new, clean one with a warranty. (-: YMMV...

You will also need to buy different rad hoses for FE truck.
You may need to change the length of the fan spacer and bolts depending on
where Your 390 comes from...
I run a pair of electric fans on my 390 and absolutely *love* them on these
105 degree CA summer days. They are much more effective than the stock setup.
It also removes that marginally balanced load thats flailing around on a
spacer way out in front of the water pump. I expect my H2O pump bearings to
live a much longer, healthier life without the stock fan on them.


>6. With the Clutch Linkage setup the way it is, am I going to have room to
>install Headers??

The hooker headers I put on the '71 fit fine. They clear the clutch stuff by
nearly 2". I hate the fact that You have to remove pass side header to
change the starter motor, but oh well.

>Who knows what else I am missing,

The accelerator pedal assy is different for FE vs. 6cyl. The shaft is longer
for the 6cyl.(carb is on pass side instead of center of motor) Get the
correct pedal assy and carb linkage from a V8 truck at the wreckers. It
bolted right in on mine.

That pretty well covers it except for exhaust system.
My 6 cyl exhaust was rotted to nothingness, so I put a dual 2-1/2"
w/crossover in.
You'll need to do something....


>but I think I have already made this project
>sound a lot bigger and harder than I should.

On the '71 it was absolutely a breeze. Everything was set up to bolt in FE
right from the factory. Dunno about '66, but I'll bet it's not much worse.
The welded in motor mount supports is inconveniant, but no big deal.

I love my FE390! I don't regret doing my 240/390 swap a bit. Gonna
*seriously* think about disk brakes now tho...

Happy motoring,


Steve Delanty (sdelanty sonoma.net)

1971 F100, FE390, T-18 4-speed shortbox.(fender mounted spare)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 10:23:36 -0400
From: billjhs
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com
Subject: F-68
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello, Does anyone know if the F-68 (f-2 3/4 ton) Ford 1949 is rare?
It was manufactured in or for Canada.
e-mail billjhs excaliber.com
THanks Bill

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 10:50:46 -0400
From: Ethan Vos
To: "'fordtrucks lofcom.com'"
Subject: supercharged flathead
Message-ID:
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC6830.6EF6ACB0"

------ =_NextPart_000_01BC6830.6EF6ACB0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Can anyone help me or does anyone know where to get info about building a supercharged flathead.

It's either that or a 460, but I think the flathead would be a lot cooler?

Has anyone ever seen a crew cab for a 53-56? How could one be done?


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------ =_NextPart_000_01BC6830.6EF6ACB0--

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 10:52:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Scooch13in aol.com
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: supercharged flathead
Message-ID:

i've seen custom bulit extended cabs 56's

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 11:29:53 -0700
From: "C.D. Mutch"
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: F-68
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Hello, Does anyone know if the F-68 (f-2 3/4 ton) Ford 1949 is rare?
> It was manufactured in or for Canada.

Maybe in the states, but here in Canada there's quite a few F-68 and
F-47's as well as the M-47's and M-68's (mercury). To be honest, I've
never seen an F-1 or an F-2. As far as production figures goes, I have
no idea as to how many were built.

C.D. Mutch
--
Friends may come and go, but enemies accumulate.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 May 97 16:05:06 PDT
From: mcat epix.net
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: RE: supercharged flathead
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Funny you should ask, as a kid in the fifty`s my neighbor worked for
New York State transportion. He drove a 56 f-500 crew cab! Parked it in
the driveway every night. I belive these were specialy built but not by
Ford. I don`t find this as an option in any old factory books so they had
to be custom. Idon`t know what ever happened to these trucks but there....

---

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