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fordtrucks-digest Digest Volume 97 : Issue 122

Today's Topics:

Re: 351 and mpg ["Jason K. Schechner" ]
460 in F100/F150 [John Strauss
1965 F100 w/460 [John Strauss
460 swap-and-Steering [AM14 chrysler.com ]
Engine Swap in a 1966 Ford F100 [Keith Srb ]
Excessive charge for service [Jim Bovenmyer 4-6640
Re: 351 and mpg [sidereal epix.net ]
Re: 1965 F100 w/460 ["Jason K. Schechner" ]
Re: Excessive charge for service [Ken Payne ]
Re: Vapor Locking, Overheating [LanceWaldn aol.com ]
Re: flathead oil bath filter [Dan Wentz ]
Budget Report [Ken Payne ]
390 Question ["Bill Rotureau" ]
Re: flathead oil bath filter ["Lee Hardy" ]
Hitch type? [Bob and Kimba ]
Re: Excessive charge for service [Bfunixbs aol.com ]
390 question [rmeier connect.net (Roger Meier) ]
Re: FoMoCo Build sheets ["Nancy J. Davis"
Re: Hitch type? [MLawing616 aol.com ]
Linkage Power Steering [Andy Aydelott ]
Re: Paint and Corrosion! [bigric mail.utexas.edu (Richard Che]
RE: Paint and Corrosion! [Randy Collins ]

Administrivia:

____________________________________________________________________
Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
For help send mail with subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks-digest-request lofcom.com
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____________________________________________________________________


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 12:08:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Jason K. Schechner"
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: 351 and mpg
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 20 May 1997, Chad Pasma wrote:

> I have a 351M now and I realize it would take a bit of $$ to make some
> power with it. Can any 351W be built for power or do I need to start with
> a 4 bbl as opposed to a 2 bbl?

Sure, almost any engine can be built for power it just depends
what you want to do to it.

> Can it bolt straight up to the C6 that's behind the M right now or do I need
> to swap the bell housing or get a whole new tranny?

The 351M has the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the bigbrock
engines including the 400 (not technically bigbrlock, I know) 429/460. If
you want bolt-in power the 460 is the way to go. Mileage only be any
worse with the 460 and power should be *much* better. This is the route
I'm hoping to go with my 79 Bronco with the 351M.
The C6 has the bellhousing integral with the rest of the case so
you'd need to swap the entire tranny.

> Also, can I run a dual fuel with a 4 bbl carb? (gas and propane) I
> wouldn't mind the propane for fuel economy and the gas is there
> for power when I want it.

Now there's an idea! I don't know, but I'm intrigued. let me
know what you find out!

> Thanks.
>
-Jason
79 Bronco (351M, C6, 33" BFG AT's) GRN GYNT - offroad monster
79 Bronco (400M, C6, 31" Wranglers) blue - road beast
95 Mustang GT (hers) bone stock
95 Mustang GT (his) 3.55's, K&N, 13deg timing


-----
Jason K. Schechner - Unix Sysadmin - Oracle Corp
check out www.cauce.org and help ban spam-mail.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 12:22:12 -0500
From: John Strauss
To: Ford Trucks List
Subject: 460 in F100/F150
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

The 460 V8 was available as a factory option on 2WD F100s and F150s
1973-1979. It was never offered in the Bronco, however.

John

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 12:22:15 -0500
From: John Strauss
To: Ford Trucks List
Subject: 1965 F100 w/460
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>I have a 65 F100 Custom Cab with a 460 cu.In. and an automatic from a 1975
>Lincoln.I would like to swap out the 460 for something not quite hungry.
>What can I put in this truck that will match up with the trany that I
>already have? Thanks for any info.Drew Johnson
>
Drew, where do you live? I sure would like to have your 460!

You would have to swap the transmission also to get to a small block. In
any case, the MPG is not going to get much better, I don't think, with any
V8. How much does your 460 get? What did your truck have in it
originally? If you don't know send me your VIN and I'll tell you the
original engine. If it is MPG you are after, you should probably consider
a Six.

Jason, I can't believe you didn't offer to do the swap for him in return
for the 460/C6 for your Bronco!

John

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 May 97 14:28:05 EDT
From: AM14 chrysler.com
To: "FOMOCO Truck B/S list"
Subject: 460 swap-and-Steering
Message-Id:

Keith: I think you need to take a serious look at your front-end. Period.
Sounds dangerous to me. Get a buddy to move the steering from left to right
until you reach resistance in either direction. Look for movement into the
steering sector and simeltaneous movement of the Pitman arm coming out of
the steering sector. Also look at every "Joint" in the linkage from the
steering box to the wheels. Some have a Idler arm (arm parallel to the
pitman arm on the passengers side) that has a rubber bushing them that is
bad to wear out. Good luck.


Jon & Cindy: There are probably loads of performance enthusiasts on this
list that would swap you a small block/tranny straight up for your 460/C6.
460 - 429 - 351M - 400M all have the same BellhousingTransmission bolt
pattern. The 351W-302 have the same bolt pattern.

1979 did offer the 460/C6 as an option an all except 4X4.

WORKING TO BE THE BEST
Azie Magnusson
PROFS ID (AM14):E-Mail AM14 Chrysler.com
Tie Line (835-2578):Outside (205)464-2578

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 12:33:40 -0700
From: Keith Srb
To: "'fordtrucks lofcom.com'"
Subject: Engine Swap in a 1966 Ford F100
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I have had several people tell me, including a couple of people on this list,
that I should be able to pull the 240 six cylinder currently in the truck and
bolt in a 360FE, 390FE, etc. Well I guess I would feel better if I knew the
answer to a few other questions and I do not have any friends that have older
model Fords that I can look under the hood and verify this for myself. I am a
Computer Programmer/Analyst by day and wannabe shade tree mechanic at night. I
don't have an engine stand, and some of the other high dollar tools that I
would probably use only once, so I will have to beg, borrow or rent them. If I
have to rent them, I want to make sure this is going to work before I start
this project. Anyway.

1. My biggest concern is the fact that the clutch linkage relies on a shaft
that runs from the side of the block on the 240 to a bracket bolted on top of
the frame. Does a 360, 390, what ever I put in their going to have a place on
the engine block to mount the shaft for the clutch into??.

2. The Steering Gear Box rests on top of the frame, just in front of the
Bracket for the Clutch. Will this be in the way of the new engine??

3. The Motor Mount Supports are welded to the frame, am I going to have to move
them?? If I have to move them, I will have to take the truck to a welding shop
and let them do it.

4. Wiring for the new motor. As far as I know the only wires I should have to
worry about are the,
a. Cable going to the starter.
b. Wire going to the distributor, are there the same number of wires with the
same number of connectors, or do I have to redo these wires.
c. Wire going to the alternator, are there the same number of wires with the
same number of connectors, or do I have to redo these wires.
Am I missing any ??

5. Am I going to have to have to have the radiator modified in any way,
increase it's capacity, move the inlet and outlet?

6. With the Clutch Linkage setup the way it is, am I going to have room to
install Headers??

Who knows what else I am missing, but I think I have already made this project
sound a lot bigger and harder than I should.

>Keith Srb herbie netvalue.net
>1986 Ford Bronco II, 2.9L (I HATE LITERS) V-6, Mitsubishi 5-Speed.
>1966 Ford F100, 240 C.I. Straight Six, Warner T-18 4-Speed, Short Box.
>My Blood runs "TRUE BLUE FORD!"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 15:40:59 -0500
From: Jim Bovenmyer 4-6640
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Excessive charge for service
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-MD5: Wcir50DP/M4Lf9s3jIefhA==

I just dropped off my 94 Ranger to have it's 15k mi. oil change/checkup. They
presented me with this stratified payment schedule that they said was becuase of
the hard use climate here in WI. They also said that Ford had dictated this. I
have never had this in Iowa or Chicago where I was before here. They said for
oil and rotation it would be $40 and an extra 60 to go over the brakes. They
say they also go over everything else thoroughly but it still seems quite high.
I called another dealer afterward and he basically thought the same. I then
called the 800 number in Detroit and told them about it for documentation. I
shouldn't have left it there, but hindsight is always crystal clear isn't it.

I would really appreciate if I could have some responses to this. I feel I got
screwed, I probably did, but if they really did all they say they did I would
probably feel better but you just can't be sure. Has anybody seen these service
"levels" before?

Thanks,

Jim Bovenmyer
94 2.3L Ranger XLT SC
"Prowler Purple"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 17:17:29 -0400
From: sidereal epix.net
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: 351 and mpg
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>I have a 351M now and I realize it would take a bit of $$ to make some
>power with it. Can any 351W be built for power or do I need to start with
>a 4 bbl as opposed to a 2 bbl?
>Can it bolt straight up to the C6 that's behind the M right now or do I need
>to swap the bell housing or get a whole new tranny?

A 351W requires a different bellhousing than a 351M, but there wont be any
prob with mating it with a C6. Not sure on the built for power question,
but as far as the intake goes, I believe that it is possible to get a
performance 4V intake for a 351W (Edelbrock, maybe ?)

== Serian

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 17:31:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Jason K. Schechner"
To: Ford Trucks List
Subject: Re: 1965 F100 w/460
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 21 May 1997, John Strauss wrote:

> Jason, I can't believe you didn't offer to do the swap for him in return
> for the 460/C6 for your Bronco!

Now that you mention it...... How healthy is that 460? ;-)

-Jason

PS: Actually, my truck is a '79 so I'd have a hard time getting it to pass
smog inspection with a 76 motor. :-(

-----
Jason K. Schechner - Unix Sysadmin - Oracle Corp
check out www.cauce.org and help ban spam-mail.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 22:04:43 -0400
From: Ken Payne
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Excessive charge for service
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Just wanted to let you know that we now have two emailing lists. One covers
1979 and older trucks, one covers 1980 and newer trucks. Unfortunately I
have not yet updated all the search engines and internet indexes (156 to
date) to reflect this so its no surprize that not everyone is aware of
it. The address fordtrucks lofcom.com is for the older trucks. If you want,
I can subscribe you to the newer truck list instead of or in addition to
this list. If anyone else is in this position let me know. Email me
personally with any questions or requests concerning this. Sorry folks, I'm
working on it....

-Ken Payne
1967 Ford F100 Custom Cab, 390 FE V8
List maintainer, send me comments and suggestions.
Visit the Ford Truck Enthusiast List Web Page (unsubscribe
form is there): http://www.ford-trucks.com

>I just dropped off my 94 Ranger to have it's 15k mi. oil change/checkup. They
>presented me with this stratified payment schedule that they said was becuase of
>the hard use climate here in WI. They also said that Ford had dictated this. I
>have never had this in Iowa or Chicago where I was before here. They said for
>oil and rotation it would be $40 and an extra 60 to go over the brakes. They
>say they also go over everything else thoroughly but it still seems quite high.
>I called another dealer afterward and he basically thought the same. I then
>called the 800 number in Detroit and told them about it for documentation. I
>shouldn't have left it there, but hindsight is always crystal clear isn't it.
>
>I would really appreciate if I could have some responses to this. I feel I got
>screwed, I probably did, but if they really did all they say they did I would
>probably feel better but you just can't be sure. Has anybody seen these service
>"levels" before?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jim Bovenmyer
>94 2.3L Ranger XLT SC
>"Prowler Purple"
>
>
>____________________________________________________________________
>Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
>For help send mail with subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks-request lofcom.com
>Comments and suggestions are welcome, use: kpayne mindspring.com
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 23:31:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: LanceWaldn aol.com
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Vapor Locking, Overheating
Message-ID:

Well so much for my idea.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 22:56:03 -0700
From: Dan Wentz
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com
Subject: Re: flathead oil bath filter
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>I am working on my 53 239 flathead V8 and have discovered several pin
>holes in the oil bath air filter. Can I repair this with fiberglass or
>does this become to hot? Is it recommended to keep the oil bath filter
>or switch to a regular air filter ?

Anything you can fill the holes with will probably work. Heat isn't much
of a problem in that area. I replaced the oil bath cleaner on my 239 with
a paper one and the engine seemed to like that a hell of a lot better.

~Dan

1992 Ford Mustang LX
1950 Ford F1, 351C-2V
Check out my F1 page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.GeoCities.com/MotorCity/3623

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 14:32:59 -0400
From: Ken Payne
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Budget Report
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Ok, here it is, names have been removed. Thanks to everyone
who has donated to keep this list going. It really is
appreciated. If you donated and did not receive an email
from me let me know. Emails are how I've kept track of
who has donated and I want to make sure I haven't missed
anyone.

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INC contrib 5/5/97 $ 5.00 $ 80.00
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INC contrib 5/5/97 $20.00 $110.00
EXP Dragonfire Internet Services 5/6/97 -$25.00 $ 85.00
EXP LOF Communications 5/9/97 -$80.00 $ 5.00
INC contrib 5/8/97 $10.00 $ 15.00
INC contrib 5/9/97 $10.00 $ 25.00
INC contrib 5/9/97 $ 5.00 $ 30.00
INC contrib 5/16/97 $10.00 $ 35.00
----------------------------------------------------------
Balance $ 35.00

If you would like to contribute to help cover our quarterly
expenses please send a check or money order to:

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
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Donations are _not_ required for membership in this list. As
you can see though, every dollar counts.

Group purchase arrangements still in the works, more on this
later. Also, design of a club patch is in the works.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:14:39
From: "Bill Rotureau"
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com
Subject: 390 Question
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

How long can you run a 1964 390/4V (300hp/10.1 compression ratio)
without hardened valves seats? Engine has 79K miles on it from 1964 to 1975
and 650 miles from 1975 to present?


Thanks,

Bill
'64 F100 Shortbox (302/C4)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:44:58 -0400
From: "Lee Hardy"
To:
Subject: Re: flathead oil bath filter
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

----------
> From: Jeff Hazewinkel
> To: fordtrucks
> Subject: flathead oil bath filter
> Date: Wednesday, May 21, 1997 10:04 AM
>
> I am working on my 53 239 flathead V8 and have discovered several pin
> holes in the oil bath air filter. Can I repair this with fiberglass or
> does this become to hot? Is it recommended to keep the oil bath filter
> or switch to a regular air filter ?
>
> Jeff
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
> For help send mail with subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks-request lofcom.com
> Comments and suggestions are welcome, use: kpayne mindspring.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:16:10 -0400
From: Bob and Kimba
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
CC: robertmm gte.net
Subject: Hitch type?
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I am new to list and I enjoy alot.
1. How do I determine if my hitch is a class 3 or class 4?
I do know that it is a 2" reciever. There is nothing on
the hitch .

Bob Meyer
1977 F150 4x4 351M/4spd

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 21:03:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bfunixbs aol.com
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Excessive charge for service
Message-ID:

Yep, you got ripped off, unless you just have to go to a Ford Dealer, don't.
They once tried to charge me a little over $350 to tell me about two codes
that were the standard clear code and brake test code. I chewed a service
manager for about 20 minutes and got a full refund. The problem was, I
shouldn't have had to do that.

Just my 2 cents.

Charlie

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 22:36:45 -0800
From: rmeier connect.net (Roger Meier)
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com
Subject: 390 question
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Bill writes;
"How long can you run a 1964 390/4V (300hp/10.1 compression ratio)
without hardened valves seats? ....."

My personal experience says a long time. I rebuilt our 63 T-bird (also 390 w/ 4V, 300 hp) about 12 years ago and we have put 70K miles or so on it since then. We use it as a road car so it sees long periods of 70+ mph with the AC going (we live in Dallas). Total miles on the engine is 235K, and it still has the original valve seats. The exhaust valve guides were replaced when I rebuilt it. We use 92 or 93 octane fuel and have no pinging problem, and the engine is soooo smooooth.
Regards,
Roger Meier

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 21:30:01 -0700
From: "Nancy J. Davis"
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com
Subject: Re: FoMoCo Build sheets
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Somehow I missed getting the e-mail address for Ford, to e-mail them
with the VIN number of my truck, to get the build sheet.

Can you please provide me with the e-mail address?

Much thanks!

Respond to:
nancyjd ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 00:50:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: MLawing616 aol.com
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Hitch type?
Message-ID:

Take your truck to a rental/trailer rent/u-haul type business ,and have
someone look at the truck's hitch and give you the info,and tip the guy about
$5.00 for his time

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 22:30:17 -0700
From: Andy Aydelott
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Linkage Power Steering
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Would like to know if anyone knows where I could get info on the linkage
power assist setup for a 1967 F250 4x4. I bought a used one for $100,
but need to find information about it on how to install it on my 1967.
Pictures and some type of docmentation would be nice.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Andy
1967 F250 4x4
1972 F100 2WD

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 00:40:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: bigric mail.utexas.edu (Richard Cherico)
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Paint and Corrosion!
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I can't say that I've ever seen the results of soda blasting, but I had the
bed removed from my '68 F100 Stepside and bead (glass) blasted to remove the
scratches and surface rust of the past 28 years. When I originally asked
about sand blasting, I was told that many times the sand wears the metal too
thin and it comes out drooping like a wet rag. Maybe they didn't know what
they were doing, but that's just what I was told. I've been very happy with
the results of the bead blasting on the bed. I also had a junkyard intake
manifold bead blasted and it came out like it was just off the line, bare
metal with sharp stamped letters and numbers. But this is just my experience.

bigric mail.utexas.edu
'68 Ford F100 Custom Cab Flareside 360 FE
'66 VW Beetle 1300->1500

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 00:29:48 -0700
From: Randy Collins
To: "'fordtrucks lofcom.com'"
Subject: RE: Paint and Corrosion!
Message-ID:
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC6748.4FEA6980"

------ =_NextPart_000_01BC6748.4FEA6980
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

From: Richard Cherico [SMTP:bigric mail.utexas.edu]
I can't say that I've ever seen the results of soda blasting, but I had =
the
bed removed from my '68 F100 Stepside and bead (glass) blasted to remove =
the
scratches and surface rust of the past 28 years. When I originally =
asked
about sand blasting, I was told that many times the sand wears the metal =
too
thin and it comes out drooping like a wet rag. Maybe they didn't know =
what
they were doing, but that's just what I was told. I've been very happy =
with
the results of the bead blasting on the bed. I also had a junkyard =
intake
manifold bead blasted and it came out like it was just off the line, =
bare
metal with sharp stamped letters and numbers. But this is just my =
experience.

Richard,

I am glad your bed came out well. It would be really be a bummer to get =
something back and have it messed up. =20

I also mentioned in that same post about other types of blast media. =
The one that is really popular around here for thing like your bed is =
plastic media blasting. It does a nice job and is really =
environmentally friendly. =20

You probably haven't heard much about soda blasting because it is still =
relatively new to the market. In the future you will see lots more of =
it. In addition to the soda being USDA approved for the food processing =
industry, it doesn't harm equipment like sand or other types of media =
would. =20

Randy Collins
Boise, Idaho
rcollins micron.net

1975 Ford Supercab Longbed Muscle Truck (mostly in pieces)
Soon to have the following Randy installed options:
F250 4WD 460 C-6


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