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fordtrucks-digest Digest Volume 97 : Issue 101

Today's Topics:

RE: F150 Hesitation ?? [Phil Conrad
Pigeon Forge trip [Peter Bondra ]
Something I forgot ["Harry Jennings"
RE: Synthetic (Mobil 1) oil question [DC Beatty
Re: vindication [sdelanty sonoma.net ]
Re: 78 F-150 Oil problems [Matt ]
Re: 5000 engines for sale [MLawing616 aol.com ]
aod trans [Eric Houkal ]
Re: gases ["Harry Jennings"

Administrivia:

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 17:21:19 -0700
From: Phil Conrad
To: "'fordtrucks lofcom.com'"
Subject: RE: F150 Hesitation ??
Message-Id:
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Thanks Jim,

KOEO
Re: 327
To the best of my knowledge I have a stock exhaust system. What does =
"hooped" mean. Come on, take a chance and show your age :)

Re: 542
Is the secondary circuit the second gas tank ? or is it something else. =
Can you elaborate on what needs to be changed.

Re: 634
What should I do to fix this problem ?

KOER
Re: 129,167,225
So I didn't give it enough gas on the "goose". Ok I'll try again.

Re: 632
I do have an E4OD and it shifts hard into second but going into 4th is a =
piece of cake. I just push the button and away we go. However one =
thing I do notice is that if I have OD OFF (light on shift stick ON) =
going down hill with no gas fead in, back pressure another words, if I =
turn the OD ON (light OFF) the tranny drops into OD hard, REAL HARD. I =
just never do this, I always feed in alittle gas until I feel like it's =
time to shift. =20

Thanks Jim, Good stuff !

----------
From: JIM HURD[SMTP:HURDJ VAX.CS.HSCSYR.EDU]
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 1997 11:31 AM
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: F150 Hesitation ??


Phil,
Good job! Let me look up your codes (from my arm chair!).

Okay, you already know that the 111 says you passed the self-test with
flying colors. Next, the "continuous memory" codes, meaning that at
some prior time the EEC-IV saw this problem and stored the code for you:

327 =3D PFE/DPFE circut below minimum. (The PFE is a Pressure Feedback =
Egr
sensor that measures the exhaust gas pressure in the EGR system.)
Do you have a modified exhaust system, by chance? Or maybe the=20
sensor is "hooped"?

542 =3D Fuel pump secondary circuit failure. (Bet this is your =
hesitation.)

634 =3D MLP (Manual Lever Position) sensor volatage out of self-test
range on E40D. =20

Now for the KOER tests:

during the dynamic response test you have a:

129 =3D Insufficient MAF (Mass Air Flow) change during dynamic response =
test.
(You have to snap the throttle to WOT when you get the "goose" =
code.
More on that in a later code.) The reason the 129 went away on =
your
next test is you probably gossed it a little harder.

167 =3D Insufficient TP (Throttle Position) change during DRT (Dynamic
Response Test). You need to go to full throttle so that the EEC-IV
can verify the limits of the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) =
voltage.

225 =3D Knock not sensed during DRT. You need to "snap" the throttle to
WOT. The EEC-IV wants the engine to "ping" so that it can check =
out
the knock sensor circuit (but you probably won't be able to hear
the ping with just your ear.)

632 =3D OverDrive cancel switch (OCS) not changing state (E4OD). I need =
some
help here. I don't have an E4OD tranny. Do you? Is it shifting =
into
OD properly, and shifting out of OD okay?

To clear the continuous memory codes, disconnect the battery for about =
10
minutes........Good Luck.

Jim in Central NY
'79 F-150 (302!)
'92 Topaz (3.0l)


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Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 20:43:14 -0700
From: Peter Bondra
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Pigeon Forge trip
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

If anyone going to Pigeon Forge is in my vicinity and has a need,
problem, etc., give me a call. My phone # at my tile store is:
540.949.8453.

I'm just off I-81 & I-64, approx. 450 miles North of the show, in
Waynesboro, Virginia. Due to my business, I can't get away to go
myself.

Regards, Paul Gayda

PS: If you run into anyone who wants CHEAP a low mileage 239 ohv V8 &
standard trans (out of a '55), or a restorable panel truck mounted on a
modified (Chrysler front end) stock frame, keep me in mind. Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 18:19:04 PDT
From: "Harry Jennings"
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com
Subject: Something I forgot
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain

When I was giving tips on how to increase mileage I forgot some very important
thing:

1)Weight. I run without my tailgate most of the time, have lighter front brakes,
and fiberglass innerfenders.

2)Accessories. I not not have A/C or power steering. The only thing my engine
turns is the water pump and the alt. (I have a electric fan).

I know this is not a Ford post, but I feel we can never have too many ideas on
howe to improve our mileage!

Harry.


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------------------------------

Date: 07 May 97 22:04:12 EDT
From: DC Beatty
To: "'INTERNET:fordtrucks lofcom.com'"
Subject: RE: Synthetic (Mobil 1) oil question...
Message-ID:

Yes. The same questions have occurred to me. Like I said, he just
mentioned it to me in passing while we were on the golf course. I'll try to find
out more in the next month or so and let you know.

I'm looking for a practical way to reduce sludge without rebuilding. The truck
was pretty well obscenely neglected when I got it. The oil drainback holes
through the cylinder heads were even plugged up!!! Some peoples kids...

DC Beatty
1967 F-100 352
1974 Maverick 302

----------
From: INTERNET:fordtrucks lofcom.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 1997 7:41 AM
To: "'INTERNET:fordtrucks lofcom.com'"
Subject: RE: Synthetic (Mobil 1) oil question...


>>>>Solvent through a motor..!!!!
Am I a little ignorant or would that "freak-out" the bearings and
all other friction points on the engine on the first start!!????
I think I am scared....
Wsabers
78 Bronco
69 Mach I


On 5 May 1997, DC Beatty wrote:

> FYI --if flushing out sludge is the object here:
>
> A buddy of mine works at the local Ford dealer as a wrench and he says they
have
> a machine that, when one hose is hooked to the oil filter outlet and another
> hose is hooked to the drain plug hole, flushes solvent through the motor.
> Anybody ever heard of an item like this? I don't think he'd lie.
>
> I don't know if the procedure works well or not, but I guess it's an option. I
> hear the only thorough way to get rid of sludge is tear down/boil/rebuild.
>
> I may stop by to check this machine out one day. I'll let any interested
parties
> know.
>
> DC Beatty
> 1967 F-100 352
> 1974 Maverick 302
> ----------
> From: INTERNET:fordtrucks lofcom.com
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 1997 2:36 PM
> To: INTERNET:fordtrucks lofcom.com
> Subject: Re: Synthetic (Mobil 1) oil question...
>
> I wouldn't. There are engine flushing compoounds you can add to
> your oil to help clean it out and, from what I've heard, switching back
> and forth between standard and synthetic oil is not a good idea. In fact,
> you could even run a quart of ATF instead of oil for a few hundred miles -
> should help clean things out nicely.
>
> -Jason
>
> On Mon, 5 May 1997 PDupont105 aol.com wrote:
>
> > Would you recommend running synthetic on an 87,000 mile engine to give it a
> > good cleansing and then switch back to regular oil? I've been reading all
> > these letters and am begining to wonder if it might not be a bad idea.
> >
> > 88 Taurus (87,000 mi)
> > 87 Bronco II (83,000 mi)
> >
>
> -Jason
> 79 Bronco (blue)
> 79 Bronco (green)
> 95 Mustang GT - hers
> 95 Mustang GT - his
>
> -----
> Jason K. Schechner - Unix Sysadmin - Oracle Corp
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
> For help send mail with subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks-request lofcom.com
> Comments and suggestions are welcome, use: kpayne mindspring.com
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
> For help send mail with subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks-request lofcom.com
> Comments and suggestions are welcome, use: kpayne mindspring.com
>
>


____________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 19:09:54 -0700
From: sdelanty sonoma.net
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com
Subject: Re: vindication
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>>
>>Don't get too excited yet, Harry. He's talking about EGR, not PCV.
>>
>
>HEY,
>
>Did you read the post?
>
>It is right up there ^^^ but I will quote it anyway.
>
>"Every high performance product not for street use lacked PCV and EGR!" Also
>read his quote from Hot Rod.

high performance product not for street use??
That whole statement is irrelevant. I thought we both put street miles on
our trucks.?
Are these registered, insured, daily drivers? Will they pass even the most
casual smog inspection? Even if Your state has *none* now, it likely will
very soon.

Vehicles that are *not for street use* and are exempt from smog laws!

These "off road vehicles" often have very short lived motors and don't need
to worry about the long term effects of blowby gases. They are certain to
die of other causes first.
The motors usually run so filthy with unburned HCO anyway that there's no
significant "ecological" benefit.
It's not required by law for them.
Why add it under those circumstances? You are comparing apples and oranges.

Besides, there's a marketing aspect to it. Lot's of ininformed people think
that removing the PCV gets You free horspower, so are willing to pay for
hardware that doesn't support it. You'd be amazed how many people are
clueless about how a PCV affects the system, and how to tune it correctly.
The carb and timing *will* require *different* tuning to get the same
results with PCV as without it. But once You've got it right it hurts nothing.

PCV does not degrade performance if You know what You are doing.
It also has considerable environmental benefit. And keeps Your motor cleaner.
Three and a half decades have made that a proven, established fact.
Your experiance with seeing an improvemnt by removing it doesn't surprise me.
I've had the same experiance with it.
"Gee, this works better without it.!? PCV sucks!"

Once I learned *how* to tune PCV correctly, those misunderstandings went away.

PCV is a very misunderstood system that gives large reductions in unburned
HCO with very simple, inexpensive hardware.
I hate to see people disconnect it because:

A) The same performance can be got with or without it.

B) Removing it makes the air that *all* of us breathe stink a little more.

C) It brings the "smog nazis" down on auto enthusiasts that much more.

On a street vehicle, it's too much of a good thing to just "throw away" in
ignorance.
I assume that You're opinion can't be changed by reason, so I won't try anymore.
I tire of this thread now.

It keeps getting off track with "well, jet helicopters don't use it, so..."
and stuff like that. I wanted to see some real evidence about "why not to
use it."
All I got was, "some stuff doesn't use it" and "mine worked better without it"

Tell me *why* it works better. What physics are happening here?
What is the PCV changing, that makes the motor run worse?
Why did my mpg and performance go up when I disconnected it?
What does it *really* disturb and when and why?
How can things be set right again while using the PCV.?

*That* is good stuff for argument in my opinion, because we both get to
learn stuff. That's not happening here anymore.
It's become just; "does so" ... "does not" ... "does so"... "does not".
My big brother's gonna beat up Your big brother..
Ackk.

What I *am* going to do, is write up what I know about what is going on in a
PCV system and why, and how to tune for it, and make PCV work well.
It's not difficult to understand, but many still seem to find it easier to
just yank the PCV than to understand it.
Some of You will already know this info, but some may not. Many may not care...
It may take me a week or so to publish it to the list as I'm gonna be too
busy for the next 5-6 days to deal with much email stuff.
Look for "Your PCV and You." sometime next week. Coming to a list near You...
Y'all can read it, ignore it, correct it, flame it, improve on it, etc as
You see fit. Until then You'll have to work *this* thread without me. I need
a break.

>
>And you guys wonder why I get so upset sometimes!!!!!!!!
>
No, people often get frustrated when they don't understand something.

>I think God himself could tell you something and you would argue!?
>
God would have a clue, so we wouldn't need to argue with him.

>
>As a matter of fact I am vindicated now.
>
Vindicated? If You say so. But You're still not comprehending.

>Thank you for asking.
>
>Harry.

You're welcome.

Happy motoring,

Steve Delanty (sdelanty sonoma.net)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 21:33:00 -0500
From: Matt
To: fordtruckS lofcom.com
Subject: Re: 78 F-150 Oil problems
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>
>I own a `78 F-150 Ranger 4x4, short bed, with 33" tires 3.50 gears, a 4"
>rancho suspension lift and a rebuilt C-6 with a shift kit(blew the 1st one
>mudding without a tranny gauge and she was buried in mud to the floor
>boards). I am currently running a 351M with over 100,000 on it. Last year
>I outfitted it with a 650 vac-secondary Holley, Edelbrok preformer intake,
>headers and duals. I got some impressive power out of the old bag, but I
>suffered from low oil pressure. I dropped in a high vol pump to cure the
>problem, along with straight 40 wieght oil. Start up oil pressure proved
>to be extreme and I quickly dropped the fluid to go for 20-50 weight. It
>ran fine till now(regular oil changes of course, stored winter, in WI). In
>the past 2 weeks my pressure has dropped dramatically. At first it would
>drop at low rpm's, but was still in runable range. Now the pressure drops
>low at cruising range(1500- 2500) and raises a little if I nail it and hit
>3000- 5000. I'm running the stock gauge and the truck is barely in the
>safe range. The funny thing is, at idle in park(1300) the pressure rises a
>fair amount. Sorry I can't give you poundage. The only thing I can guess
>is that some of the oil passages are cloged. I don't think it's possible
>for my bearings to go that quickly. Other than the oil problem the truck
>runs great. I still have great compression and the engine has never had
>internal work. I'm looking for a quick, short term fix, that doesn't
>involve redoing the lower end. The truck has to last the rest of the
>summer. Does anybody have any suggestion or diagnosses to the problem?
> The reason that the motor only needs to last the summer is because
>I am currently working on a 351C that I should have completed by August if
>I make as much money as I think I can by then. I plan on running forged
>pistons with about 9.5:1 compression, I will polish the heads, The intake
>is dual plane with a wicked drop, a holley 650 vac secondary, headers and
>dual, a competion cam with 268 degrees, and a high vol oil pump with some
>work to the oil passages and a high pressure relief spring. How does this
>sound? I'm looking for lots of lowend and midrange. Does any body have
>any suggestions or hints?
Matt Merry

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:36:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: MLawing616 aol.com
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: 5000 engines for sale
Message-ID:

We need more info on these complete engines,such as: WHY SO MANY AFTER ALL
THESE YEARS,WERE THEY LOST LIKE THE CARSON CITY SILVER DOLLARS FOUND IN MINT
BAGS IN A CAVE A FEW YEARS AGO ? WERE THESE ENGINES REPLACED IN THE USA BY
FORD DEALERS,OR WERE THEY GERMAN SURPLUS OR JAPAN OVERSTOCK FOR PROBABLE
WARRANTY USE,,,,,GIVE US SOME INFO

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:03:44 -0500
From: Eric Houkal
To: "'fordtrucks'"
Subject: aod trans
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Is any body out there familiar with the aod trans as used in an 89 =
E-150 van? (sometimes referred to as AOT) Have dropped and disassembled =
trans, only problem so far is a broken retaining ring for the center =
support. Could this cause no OD, no reverse? It may have also lost =
second, but I didn't drive it far with the bad trans. Were these =
interchangeable with the car trans? I realise there are shift point =
diferrences and such, but if I threw a trans from, say, a Mustang in =
there would it work? (truck is a 5.0)
thanks, Eric,=20

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 20:29:38 PDT
From: "Harry Jennings"
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com
Subject: Re: gases
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain

>From fordtrucks-request lofcom.com Wed May 7 19:16:19 1997
>Received: (from lof localhost) by t3.media3.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) id WAA17847; Wed,
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>X-Authentication-Warning: t3.media3.net: lof set sender to
fordtrucks-request lofcom.com using -f
>From: sdelanty sonoma.net
>Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 19:09:54 -0700
>Message-Id:
>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4
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>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com
>Subject: Re: vindication
>X-Loop: fordtrucks lofcom.com
>Precedence: list
>X-Distributed-By: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
>Reply-To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
>
>
>>>
>>>Don't get too excited yet, Harry. He's talking about EGR, not PCV.
>>>
>>
>>HEY,
>>
>>Did you read the post?
>>
>>It is right up there ^^^ but I will quote it anyway.
>>
>>"Every high performance product not for street use lacked PCV and EGR!" Also
>>read his quote from Hot Rod.
>
>high performance product not for street use??
>That whole statement is irrelevant. I thought we both put street miles on
>our trucks.?
>Are these registered, insured, daily drivers? Will they pass even the most
>casual smog inspection? Even if Your state has *none* now, it likely will
>very soon.

I doubt it.

>
>Vehicles that are *not for street use* and are exempt from smog laws!
>
>These "off road vehicles" often have very short lived motors and don't need
>to worry about the long term effects of blowby gases. They are certain to
>die of other causes first.

I will say it again, mine has 80,000 miles.


> The motors usually run so filthy with unburned HCO anyway that there's no
>significant "ecological" benefit.
>It's not required by law for them.
>Why add it under those circumstances? You are comparing apples and oranges.
>
>Besides, there's a marketing aspect to it. Lot's of ininformed people think
>that removing the PCV gets You free horspower, so are willing to pay for
>hardware that doesn't support it. You'd be amazed how many people are
>clueless about how a PCV affects the system, and how to tune it correctly.
>The carb and timing *will* require *different* tuning to get the same
>results with PCV as without it. But once You've got it right it hurts nothing.
>
>PCV does not degrade performance if You know what You are doing.
>It also has considerable environmental benefit. And keeps Your motor cleaner.
>Three and a half decades have made that a proven, established fact.
>Your experiance with seeing an improvemnt by removing it doesn't surprise me.
>I've had the same experiance with it.
> "Gee, this works better without it.!? PCV sucks!"
>
>Once I learned *how* to tune PCV correctly, those misunderstandings went away.

I DO listen to reason! Please let me know how to *tune* a PCV system. I have
never heard of *tuning* them. Iff you can tell me how and not lose any power I
will hook it back up in a second. Otherwise I am planning on filtering the fumes
through a charcoal canister or similar application.

>
>PCV is a very misunderstood system that gives large reductions in unburned
>HCO with very simple, inexpensive hardware.
>I hate to see people disconnect it because:
>
>A) The same performance can be got with or without it.
>
>B) Removing it makes the air that *all* of us breathe stink a little more.
>
>C) It brings the "smog nazis" down on auto enthusiasts that much more.
>
>On a street vehicle, it's too much of a good thing to just "throw away" in
>ignorance.

Sound like a 'Flame'.


>I assume that You're opinion can't be changed by reason, so I won't try
anymore.

That is just the thing, no one has given me any reasoning yet, they just say it
will not work and never say why.


>I tire of this thread now.
>
>It keeps getting off track with "well, jet helicopters don't use it, so..."
>and stuff like that. I wanted to see some real evidence about "why not to
>use it."
>All I got was, "some stuff doesn't use it" and "mine worked better without it"
>
>Tell me *why* it works better. What physics are happening here?
>What is the PCV changing, that makes the motor run worse?
>Why did my mpg and performance go up when I disconnected it?

I have explained my idea before, but here it is again. fresh air and good gas
makes an engine run good. The gases coming out of the PCV are not what I would
call fresh air. These gases dilute the fresh air going into the carb (like
hooking the carb up to the tail pipe. Well, OK not that bad but you get my
point.). Remember, if you tell me how to hook it back up without a power loss it
IS DONE.

>What does it *really* disturb and when and why?
>How can things be set right again while using the PCV.?
>
>*That* is good stuff for argument in my opinion, because we both get to
>learn stuff. That's not happening here anymore.
> It's become just; "does so" ... "does not" ... "does so"... "does not".
> My big brother's gonna beat up Your big brother..
> Ackk.

I agree!

Later, (0:

Harry.



>
>What I *am* going to do, is write up what I know about what is going on in a
>PCV system and why, and how to tune for it, and make PCV work well.
>It's not difficult to understand, but many still seem to find it easier to
>just yank the PCV than to understand it.
>Some of You will already know this info, but some may not. Many may not care...
>It may take me a week or so to publish it to the list as I'm gonna be too
>busy for the next 5-6 days to deal with much email stuff.
>Look for "Your PCV and You." sometime next week. Coming to a list near You...
>Y'all can read it, ignore it, correct it, flame it, improve on it, etc as
>You see fit. Until then You'll have to work *this* thread without me. I need
>a break.
>
>>
>>And you guys wonder why I get so upset sometimes!!!!!!!!
>>
>No, people often get frustrated when they don't understand something.....


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