Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 21:50:14 -0500 (EST) To: fordtrucks-digest lofcom.com
From: digest-proc lofcom.com
Subject: fordtrucks Digest v97 n0021
Reply-To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com

Volume 97 Number 0021 fordtrucks Digest

Today's Topics:

Re: 9 inch third member
Fordnatics -Reply
RE: 9 inch third member
Re: Ford Truck History Question
Re: Fordnatics
Tonnage designations- question.
1978 F250 Ranger 4x4
Re: 302's
3rd member (again)
Re: Tonnage designations- question.
Powerstroke Problems
Feb 1-15 archives
Re: 3rd member (again)
Re: Tonnage designations- question.
83 Ranger Combination Valve Question
Extra Parts 460 Motor
Re: Tonnage designations- question.
Re: Tonnage designations- question.
Re: Tonnage designations- question.
>>> Nick Finney 03/14/97 01:31am >>>
voting closed
Voting Results


* PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE THE ENTIRE DIGEST IN REPLIES TO THE LIST! *

--------------------------------------------------

>From williame why.net Thu Mar 13 16:19:49 1997 From: william enox
Subject: Re: 9 inch third member
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com

Ken Payne wrote:

Thanks for all the replies concerning 9 inch third member
compatibility. Now I have a new set of questions:

I'm going to pull out the third member ("chunk") this weekend
from my truck (67-F100) and rebuild it. What tools and parts
> do I need and what procedures do I need to follow? Am
I getting myself into a mess by taking this on myself?
Shops around here want $650 to rebuild it, way too
much. I can get a junkyard chunk for $75 to $100. However,
I replaced the entire rear end (some really heavy work for
one person) 9 months ago and I don't want yet another
ruined rear end another 9 months down the road.

If I do take the option of buying a junker one how do I know
if its any good? If that isn't my best option - how hard is
rebuilding? I picked up a Chiltons Ford truck book at the
library (the really big hard cover) and it has procedures
but it keeps saying use special tool xxxyyyzzz to do so
and so. Are there tools I can buy to do this - other than
Ford (read high $$$$) tools?

Setting up a rearend is something of an art....to get it right requires experience. I would check around and find someone else that rebuilds them. Currie Enterprises sells complete rearends narrowed and with all the right brackets to fit a Grand Nationals for 1000. I would imagine just the 3rd member would be MUCH cheaper. Thier number should be in most Hot Rod mags.
As far as tools A dial indicator with a good magnetic base is the major tool you need. Most machine shops will romove and replace the bearings on the carrier for 30 or 40. Then you get the fun job of setting up the gears. If you have the money to risk using one to learn on you might try it for the experience, a dial indicator is useful for many things.




------------------------------
>From payne platinum.com Thu Mar 13 16:32:02 1997 From: Ken Payne
Subject: Fordnatics -Reply
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com

There is a link on the Ford Trucks web page to the Fordnatics page. Point your browser to
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.mindspring.com/~fordtrucks
and follow the "Items of interest" link.

The Fordnatics is a general Ford page which serves all Ford owners.
There's a good chance that if a Falcon list exists that someone on that page will know about it. One warning, you have to specifically ask for help with the Falcon or you'll never see anything posted about it. 95% of the postings have to do with Mustangs or rebuilding high end engines. I've had a lot of helpful advice from the Fordnatic list.

>>> "Don G. Buettner" 03/13/97 03:14pm >>> I would like to enquire about the "Fordnatics" I had seen mentioned yesterday. I have a coworker that has an old Ford Falcon and might be interested in getting "Fordnatics".
If you can give me an overview of what is on the Fordnatics I would muchly appreciate.

Repsectfully,
Don Buettner



------------------------------



------------------------------
>From mcat epix.net Thu Mar 13 16:36:01 1997 From: mcat epix.net
Subject: RE: 9 inch third member
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com

Ken
The rebuilding of the third member reqiures a couple of special tools.
Summit and Jegs both sell them but are rather expensive. You also need dial indicaters and shim packs bearing pullers and other tools. I would rather buy a third member, pull the axles and slip in the unit and be back on the road in a couple of hours. Much cheaper less time saves money.
Garry
--- On Thu, 13 Mar 1997 14:20:11 -0500 (EST) Ken Payne wrote:

>Thanks for all the replies concerning 9 inch third member
>compatibility. Now I have a new set of questions:
>
>I'm going to pull out the third member ("chunk") this weekend
>from my truck (67-F100) and rebuild it. What tools and parts
> >do I need and what procedures do I need to follow? Am
>I getting myself into a mess by taking this on myself?
>Shops around here want $650 to rebuild it, way too
>much. I can get a junkyard chunk for $75 to $100. However,
>I replaced the entire rear end (some really heavy work for
>one person) 9 months ago and I don't want yet another
>ruined rear end another 9 months down the road.
>
>If I do take the option of buying a junker one how do I know
>if its any good? If that isn't my best option - how hard is
>rebuilding? I picked up a Chiltons Ford truck book at the
>library (the really big hard cover) and it has procedures
>but it keeps saying use special tool xxxyyyzzz to do so
>and so. Are there tools I can buy to do this - other than
>Ford (read high $$$$) tools?
>
>
>
>____________________________________________________________________
>Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
>To send mail to fordtrucks, use the address: fordtrucks lofcom.com
>For help send a message with "HELP" in the body to:list-request lofcom.com
>Comments and suggestions are welcome, use: kpayne mindspring.com
>
>

-----------------End of Original Message-----------------


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Name: Garry
E-mail: mcat epix.net
Date: 3/13/97 Time: 4:27:21 PM

427 Fe powered F-100 Wild by design
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



------------------------------
>From rick adc.com Thu Mar 13 16:39:37 1997 From: rick adc.com (Rick Larson)
Subject: Re: Ford Truck History Question To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com

Randy writes:

> I an not able to tell you what packages contained what options but the
> designations I remember are:
> Custom
> Explorer
> XLT
>
> Maybe the custom was the work truck. The explorer was the standard trim
> package and the XLT was the loaded version.

I can tell you my '71 F100 *Custom* is very basic.
302 V8, C4, manual 4w drum brakes, manual steering, vinyl steats, rubber mats, one interior light (never has worked), and green two tone paint. It is about as stock as they come.

Even the turn signals don't automatically turn off :-).

Made just across the river in St. Paul.

rick
'66 Mustang garage shelf
'71 F100 *Custom* daily driver
--
Rick Larson rick adc.com Minneapolis


------------------------------
>From mdniz19 idt.net Thu Mar 13 16:47:50 1997 From: Mark Dinzebach
Subject: Re: Fordnatics
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com

Don G. Buettner wrote:
>
> I would like to enquire about the "Fordnatics" I had seen mentioned
> yesterday. I have a coworker that has an old Ford Falcon and might be
> interested in getting "Fordnatics".
> If you can give me an overview of what is on the Fordnatics I would
> muchly appreciate.
>
> Repsectfully,
> Don Buettner
>
I think he would get more out of Brian Sullivan's Falcon list. Check out his web page. www.falconclub.com

Mark


------------------------------
>From JLINETT SYSUBMC.BMC.COM Thu Mar 13 17:27:29 1997 From: JLINETT SYSUBMC.BMC.COM
Subject: Tonnage designations- question.
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com

Hi All,

I wonder if anyone on this list can explain what the various pickup designations mean, such as 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, 1 ton, etc.

>From reading current specs, anyway, it is clear that this is *not* the cargo capacity, not even close. I have never heard a believable explanation of this, yet everyone "knows" that the 1/2 ton is the F-150, the 3/4 ton is the F250 HD, and the one ton is the F-350, etc.

Also, I would appreciate any pointers to info on heavy Ford trucks. I recall there are some list members who have these: F600s, 700s, etc. I am fascinated by these and would like to learn more about them, their capacities, and their running gear.

In case someone might not already know, the Ford heavy truck operation has recently been sold to Freightliner which in turn is owned by Benz.

Thanks,
Jon in Houston
'96 F-350/T444E/XLT/4x4/Regular Cab/5 spd/3.55/Ranch Hand/Rhino/Aux. PCM "The Big Red One"


------------------------------
>From muccilli rci.rutgers.edu Thu Mar 13 19:56:50 1997 From: Todd Muccilli Subject: 1978 F250 Ranger 4x4
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com

I just wanted to drop a note to the list to alleviate some of my sorrows.

Tonight I sold the 1978 F-250 Ranger 4x4 that I had been driving for the last two years. The truck had a worked 400, 3 speed automatic, 4" suspension lift, 33" tires. It may not have looked as clean and refined as a newer truck, but it had that "tough" appearance and sure could move out. As happy as I am that I was able to replace it with a 1997 F-350 4x4 Powerstroke, I already miss that rumble that the exhaust used to make. My time has become constrained lately, and I am no longer able to spend countless weekend hours tinkering with an old rig to keep it in tip-top running condition. I hate to have given up on the old truck, but I'm sure it was for the best. I only hope that she's in good hands now...

Sorry to sound like I've put a faithful pet to sleep or something.

For the obligatory question, though: Does anyone know how to remove the hubcaps on the Alcoa aluminum wheels that come as part of the XLT package on the 1997 (and a few years prior) F-250s and F-350s? I used a big screwdriver and I managet to gouge the wheels. I refuse to put them back on until I know I can get them off without damaging them again. Any ideas? Also, does anyone know of a source for cheap replacement lug nuts (Alcoa insists I use only their two-piece system) for these wheels if I decide to keep the hub caps off? Alcoa wants $3 a piece for the lug nuts and covers which totals somehwere near $190.
Seems a little outrageous to me.

Todd
muccilli rci.rutgers.edu


------------------------------
>From kpayne mindspring.com Thu Mar 13 19:58:14 1997 From: Ken Payne Subject: Re: 302's
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com

At 10:28 PM 3/12/97 -0500, you wrote:
> RANDY ZEILINGER (USFMDSPR)'s questions about his tall tired 96 4x with a
>302 got me to thinking about my 302's (Randy, you gotta go back to stock
> tires or put lower gears in both ends!).
>
>Since all of us late model guys are probably too inexperienced in
>maintenance issues (damn EFI 302's run for 300,000 miles I'm told!), we
>don't contribute to the list, just sit back and smirk, er, lurk! So thought
>I would stirr some do-do before Ken kicks us 'kids' off the future rust
>reparations list!
>

Not me! If I kicked anyone off they would probably end up being the only guy for miles around on the highway as I try to fix a flat tire 40 miles from any city at 2am in the pouring rain (what a mouthful, huff, huff). You'd probably drive by screaming "reap it!"


>So here's the question that no one on Fordnatics could (or would) answer:
>how does the 302 in my F150 differ from the 302 in my Mustang--other than
>the obvious different air intake (twin snorkel or twin MAF's or something)
>and the speed density FI system still retained on the trucks while all cars
>went to Mass Air in 87 or 88. So are the block/cam/heads the same as the
>Mustang 302 thru 94??? Any experts or opinions out there?
>
>Dave Lampert--Arroyo Grande CA
>95 F150, 86 GT
>
>
>

-Ken Payne
1967 Ford F100 Custom Cab, 390 FE V8
List maintainer, send me comments and suggestions.
Visit the Ford Trucks List Web Page (unsubscribe form is there): http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.mindspring.com/~fordtrucks



------------------------------
>From kpayne mindspring.com Thu Mar 13 20:12:46 1997 From: Ken Payne Subject: 3rd member (again)
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com

Well, after reviewing the replies to my last inquiry and hearing my wife say "remember the last time you spent $$$$$ on tools you only used once" I've decided to get a third member from the junk yard and put one it this weekend. How do I visually inspect it to make sure its not a piece of Ch*vy, err I mean junk?

Thanks to everyone for the help!


-Ken Payne
1967 Ford F100 Custom Cab, 390 FE V8
List maintainer, send me comments and suggestions.
Visit the Ford Trucks List Web Page (unsubscribe form is there): http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.mindspring.com/~fordtrucks



------------------------------
>From kpayne mindspring.com Thu Mar 13 20:14:43 1997 From: Ken Payne Subject: Re: Tonnage designations- question.
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com

At 05:27 PM 3/13/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>I wonder if anyone on this list can explain what the various pickup
>designations mean, such as 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, 1 ton, etc.
>
>>From reading current specs, anyway, it is clear that this is *not* the
>cargo capacity, not even close. I have never heard a believable explanation
>of this, yet everyone "knows" that the 1/2 ton is the F-150, the 3/4 ton
>is the F250 HD, and the one ton is the F-350, etc.
>
>Also, I would appreciate any pointers to info on heavy Ford trucks. I recall
>there are some list members who have these: F600s, 700s, etc. I am fascinated
>by these and would like to learn more about them, their capacities, and their
>running gear.
>
>In case someone might not already know, the Ford heavy truck operation has
>recently been sold to Freightliner which in turn is owned by Benz.
>
>Thanks,
>Jon in Houston


Just a guess, maybe tongue weight for towing?

-Ken Payne
1967 Ford F100 Custom Cab, 390 FE V8
List maintainer, send me comments and suggestions.
Visit the Ford Trucks List Web Page (unsubscribe form is there): http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.mindspring.com/~fordtrucks



------------------------------
>From xdougho ssimicro.com Thu Mar 13 21:31:52 1997 From: "Douglas J. Howard" Subject: Powerstroke Problems
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com

I am driving a 1995 powerstroke with about 20,000 miles on it in very cold climate conditions. It did not come equipped with the idle-up kit.

I have begun to have serious problems. Since the New Year, the truck has been back to the dealer three times for push-rod replacements. The dealer's and Ford Canada's story is that the tolerance between the valve stems and the valve guides is so tight that under extremely cold conditions (-35 to -45 degrees fahrenheit) the valve stems are actually in contact with the walls of the guides and do not move when the rocker arms try to activate them. This puts pressure on the push rods which then bend. The contact between the valve stems and the guides is really quite apparent at start-up with the very loud clatter of the moving parts (much louder than the normal deisel engine start-up clatter).

During the last trip to the garage, the dealer replaced all 16 push rods and says if that does not do the trick, the heads will have to be replaced. Through all of this process, the dealer has replaced an injector, several sensors and at least two glow plugs. The dealer has also said all along that I need the idle-up kit so that the vehicle generates enough heat at idle to prevent the problem. I don't buy it because the problem occurs at start-up not after the engine has warmed up and after it is warm. I am also told by the dealer that all powerstrokes sold in cold climate areas must be purchased with the idle-up kit option.

Since virtually all of the past posts to this list have nothing but good to say about the powerstroke I wonder if anyone else is having the problem and whether a solution has been found.

BTW, the truck is equipped with a 1000w block heater, an oil pan heater a belly tarp and a cold front over the grill.

On a more positive note, until this most recent experience, I was very pleased with this engine. I pull a 32 foot fifth wheel at about 11,000 lbs and the engine has rarely had to work hard. In fact, the only time it has been out of 3rd gear (automatic) was over three or 4 short 17% and 18% grades on Vancouver Island starting at the bottom at low speed. Fuel mileage has been in the range of 14 to 21/22 MPG depending on terrain, road conditions and whether the trailer is behind. I too change the oils and filter every 3000 miles - with the trailer behind in mountain driving I have had to add up to a quart between changes. That is neither surprising nor unusual.

I'll appreciate advice, info and sympathy as it comes back.

djh in Canada's frozen north.


------------------------------
>From kpayne mindspring.com Thu Mar 13 22:10:15 1997 From: Ken Payne Subject: Feb 1-15 archives
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com

Archives for Feb 1-15, 1997 are up. Sorry it took so long.
There appears to be a few messages missing. I'll try and track them down when I do the January archives (this is from before we were "officially on the air").

-Ken Payne
1967 Ford F100 Custom Cab, 390 FE V8
List maintainer, send me comments and suggestions.
Visit the Ford Trucks List Web Page (unsubscribe form is there): http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.mindspring.com/~fordtrucks



------------------------------
>From nfinney earthlink.net Thu Mar 13 22:37:23 1997 From: Nick Finney Subject: Re: 3rd member (again)
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com

Ken Payne wrote:
>
> Well, after reviewing the replies to my last inquiry and hearing
> my wife say "remember the last time you spent $$$$$ on tools you
> only used once" I've decided to get a third member from the junk
> yard and put one it this weekend. How do I visually inspect it to
> make sure its not a piece of Ch*vy, err I mean junk?
>
> Thanks to everyone for the help!


Look for chipped gears or destroyed bearings. Look for metal particles
in the sediment at the bottom of the thirdmember. See if there is an
(Although I can usually determine the approx backlash by feel,the only
reliable method is to use a dial indicator) excessive amount of backlash
(this can be adjusted/fixed however), look at the gear teeth on the
pinion and ring gear and look for an excessive wear pattern (hard to
describe what to look for) - you want the wear to be as equally
distributed across the tooth surface as possible. Don't use a third
member with rough,noisy worn gears. Check the bearing races for rust,
brinneling, pitting etc... Check for excssive (or any) endplay on the
pinion gear. Look at the differental side gears and look for backlash.

Ring to pinion gear backlash (Ford 9') is ideally .008 to .012 try for
less than .017, backlash can be measured by mounting a dial indicator
on the thirdmember assembly and mounting it so the plunger contacts
one of the gear teeth on a tangent to the ring gear.
Preload the dial indictor approx 1/4' and zero it then just rock the
ring gear back and forth and use the difference between the min/max
as the backlash.

If you remove the ring gear/diff from third member put a dab of paint
on the spot where the pinion and ring gear teeth match up. This is very....

---

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