Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 13:35:36 -0500 (EST) To: fordtrucks-digest LOFCOM.COM
From: digest-proc LOFCOM.COM
Subject: fordtrucks Digest v97 n0015
Reply-To: FORDTRUCKS LOFCOM.COM

Volume 97 Number 0015 fordtrucks Digest

Today's Topics:

460 Help Please
Re: 460 Help Please
bed rail protectors
Ammeter wiring revisited-'68 F100
Re: 460 Help Please
RE: 460 Help Please
Re: 460 Help Please
Re: Ammeter wiring revisited-'68 F100
Re: 460 Help Please
Good site for parts mfgs.
Re: thickness of metal floor in bed
Ammeter wiring revisited-'68 F100 -Reply
Re: thickness of metal floor in bed -Reply
Re: Ammeter wiring revisited-'68 F100
300 I6 Questions
website down for update
94 F-150 reply
Re: '90 351W Erratic Idle
Re: thickness of metal floor in bed
Automatic Transmission ?
axel seal on 91 explorer
Late Model Diesels
Web site back up, address has changed.
swapping illegal


* PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE THE ENTIRE DIGEST IN REPLIES TO THE LIST! *

--------------------------------------------------

>From edkc7df azstarnet.com Wed Mar 5 21:02:20 1997 From: edkc7df azstarnet.com ( Ed Geiser) Subject: 460 Help Please
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com

I had my local mechanic completely rebuild the 460 in my 1978 Ford 1-ton Super Camper Special. Among other problems, we found 2 cracked exhaust valve seats on one head and 1 on the other. We magnafluxed 8 sets of used heads (16 heads) and found cracked exhaust seats on 14 of them. Following his guru's advice, who said heads on 460s during these years were problematic, my mechanic found a set of 1972 Lincoln 460 heads which checked out perfectly. His guru told him the chambers were bigger in the Lincoln, so we replaced the dished pistons with flat tops. We hardened the valve seats, etc. on the Lincoln heads. At the same time, we installed a Holley 750 double pumper, dual 2-1/2-inch exhaust off the stock manifolds, and an RV cam. There was some discussion among my mechanic's guys as to the correct cam timing. Apparently RV cams have both a retard and an an advance mark. Nobody remembers which timing mark was used to install the cam. I have about 2,000 miles on it since the overhaul. Here's the problem:

It has pre-ignition under load pulling a 21-foot travel trailer (4,000#).
The truck curbs at about 6,000# (I had a custom low profile utility bed built for it...heavy). I have retarded the timing icrementally from 6 BTDC to zero, but the only way I avoid pre-ignition under load at highway speed is to run premium and 3 cans of octane booster. And it's bound to get worse when summer comes to sunny Arizona. I checked the compression with engine hot, carb open, and starter cranking with compression read after 4 or 5 revolutions. The results were 175 psi (within a pound or so) for the 4 cyclinders I checked.

Before I make war with my mechanic, I would like some feed back. My primary question is whether or not 175 pounds of compression is so far out of whack that I should require premium *plus* octane booster? Also, could bad cam timing could be causing the problem. If so, is there a way to check it without pulling the timing cover?

I appreciate any sage advice you can give me.

Thanks,

Ed
>
------------------------------------------ If you are an amateur radio operator: 73 de Ed W7SEX

If you're not: CAIO

Old hams never die, they just lose their exciters.
































------------------------------
>From HURDJ VAX.CS.HSCSYR.EDU Wed Mar 5 23:19:10 1997 From: JIM HURD Subject: Re: 460 Help Please
X-VMS-To: IN%"FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com"
X-VMS-Cc: HURDJ
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com

Ed,
Did you cc those heads? If you did, then go to Bruce Bowlings Web page and calculate your compression ratio. Bet htose heads with pop-up pistons has you in the stratusphere (sp).

I think you should be able to pull a spark plug and valve cover and check your valve timing against the cam timing card to see how the cam was installed.

Jim in Central NY
'79 F-150 (302!)
'92 Topaz (3.0l)


------------------------------
>From yhtlines surfari.net Thu Mar 6 00:11:35 1997 From: yhtlines surfari.net
Subject: bed rail protectors
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com

I'm looking for some of those stainless steel bed rail protectors (mount on top of fender?) for my 95 F150. Not the diamond plate ones, but the flat ones. I'm in Coastal California, too far to drive to LA or SF. Any suggetions for suppliers?

Dave Lampert
Arroyo Grande CA



------------------------------
>From bigric mail.utexas.edu Thu Mar 6 00:23:06 1997 From: bigric mail.utexas.edu (Richard Cherico) Subject: Ammeter wiring revisited-'68 F100 To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com

I know that I put this up quite a while back, but I'm hoping that now we've got a few more people around.

I've got a '68 F100 with the 360. It's got the standard dash (temp & fuel guages, amp and oil lights). I've pulled a deluxe dash from a '68 F100 (guages all around) and gotten the correct oil pressure sending unit.
Right off I noticed that two wires from the wiring harness need to be swapped with other wires and the turn signal switch gets wired outside of the harness. Now, there's a thick black wire with a yellow stripe that comes right off of the starter solenoid where the alternator cable hits it.
This thick wire goes all the way to where the bundle of wires comes out behind the ignition switch. This wire looks important. What do I do with it?
On the deluxe dash, a solid red and a solid yellow wire actually go into the ammeter guage. I'm pretty sure the thick black and yellow wire is one of these. Where does the other wire come from?
It would be great if somebody else has this setup ('67-71 I believe) and could just check their underhood wiring and tell me what they see.
If anybody has a wiring diagram, I would LOVE to get it. In fact, if you've got the diagram and have access to a fax machine, you could fax it to me at 512-451-3527 and I'd be forever grateful.
Thanks a lot for any help.

bigric mail.utexas.edu
'68 Ford F100 Custom Cab Stepside 360
'66 VW Beetle 1300
bigric mail.utexas.edu



------------------------------
>From edkc7df azstarnet.com Thu Mar 6 00:47:52 1997 From: edkc7df azstarnet.com ( Ed Geiser) Subject: Re: 460 Help Please
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com

Jim, you wrote:

> Ed,
> Did you cc those heads? If you did, then go to Bruce Bowlings Web
>page and calculate your compression ratio. Bet htose heads with pop-up
>pistons has you in the stratusphere (sp).
>
> I think you should be able to pull a spark plug and valve cover and
>check your valve timing against the cam timing card to see how the cam
>was installed.
>

I did not cc the heads. My mechanic apparently took the word of his Ford "guru" that the Lincoln heads would offset the flat top pistons. I suspect, though, at 175 pounds of compression, the ratio has to be 10 or 10.5 to 1.
I'll try to run down the cam timing card.

I wonder if head spacers might help. I don't know how much cc they might give.

Thanks for the reply. I'll keep plugging along.

------------------------------------------ If you are an amateur radio operator: 73 de Ed W7SEX

If you're not: CAIO

Old hams never die, they just lose their exciters.
































------------------------------
>From rcollins micron.net Thu Mar 6 01:10:25 1997 From: Randy Collins Subject: RE: 460 Help Please
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com

Ed,

Although I am not a motor building expert, I am really close to starting = to build a built up 460 motor for my project Ford. I do know what the = combustion chamber size of the early Ford are. Or what they are = supposed to be that is. =20

C8xx =3D 75cc's
C9VE =3D 75cc's
DOVE =3D 75cc's
D2VE =3D 89cc's
Later heads are 92 to 97 cc's. =20

If you don't already know how to read the Ford codes the first number is = the decade and the second number is the year. For example the first = model year you could find a C9VE head would be 1969 and the D2VE head = would be 1972. =20

I hope this helps. =20

Randy Collins
----------
From: Ed Geiser[SMTP:edkc7df azstarnet.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 1997 4:48 PM To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com
Subject: Re: 460 Help Please

Jim, you wrote:

> Ed,
> Did you cc those heads? If you did, then go to Bruce Bowlings Web
>page and calculate your compression ratio. Bet htose heads with pop-up
>pistons has you in the stratusphere (sp).
>
> I think you should be able to pull a spark plug and valve cover and
>check your valve timing against the cam timing card to see how the cam
>was installed.
>

I did not cc the heads. My mechanic apparently took the word of his = Ford
"guru" that the Lincoln heads would offset the flat top pistons. I = suspect,
though, at 175 pounds of compression, the ratio has to be 10 or 10.5 to = 1.
I'll try to run down the cam timing card.

I wonder if head spacers might help. I don't know how much cc they = might give.

Thanks for the reply. I'll keep plugging along.

------------------------------------------ If you are an amateur radio operator: 73 de Ed W7SEX

If you're not: CAIO

Old hams never die, they just lose their exciters.
































------------------------------


------------------------------
>From nfinney earthlink.net Thu Mar 6 01:22:55 1997 From: Nick Finney Subject: Re: Ammeter wiring revisited-'68 F100 To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com

Richard Cherico wrote:
>
> I know that I put this up quite a while back, but I'm hoping that now we've
> got a few more people around.
>
> I've got a '68 F100 with the 360. It's got the standard dash (temp & fuel
> guages, amp and oil lights). I've pulled a deluxe dash from a '68 F100
> (guages all around) and gotten the correct oil pressure sending unit.
> Right off I noticed that two wires from the wiring harness need to be
> swapped with other wires and the turn signal switch gets wired outside of
> the harness. Now, there's a thick black wire with a yellow stripe that
> comes right off of the starter solenoid where the alternator cable hits it.
> This thick wire goes all the way to where the bundle of wires comes out
> behind the ignition switch. This wire looks important. What do I do with it?
> On the deluxe dash, a solid red and a solid yellow wire actually go into the
> ammeter guage. I'm pretty sure the thick black and yellow wire is one of
> these. Where does the other wire come from?
> It would be great if somebody else has this setup ('67-71 I believe) and
> could just check their underhood wiring and tell me what they see.
> If anybody has a wiring diagram, I would LOVE to get it. In fact, if you've
> got the diagram and have access to a fax machine, you could fax it to me at
> 512-451-3527 and I'd be forever grateful.
> Thanks a lot for any help.
>
> bigric mail.utexas.edu
> '68 Ford F100 Custom Cab Stepside 360
> '66 VW Beetle 1300
> bigric mail.utexas.edu

Okay Rick, I looked under the dash of my 69 F100. There doesn't seem to be any big black wire a yellow stripe that goes near the ignition switch on my truck. There is however, a big black wire with a green (it's listed as black-green in the EWD) stripe that goes to my ignition switch. It runs to the voltage regulator (must supply juice to the field coil) not the starter solenoid. This is listed as cable "904" in the EWD for 69, believe the color is same for 68 but the ignition switch terminals are slighly different.

There is a large wire that runs from the center of the switch it's solid yellow and is labeled "21" in the EWD it's the 12 volt battery supply to the ignition switch. 21 turns into 37 (BLACK YELLOW) then runs to a connector that hooks up to the positive side of the starter solenoid.

If you want the EWD then you will just have to cough up the big bucks for a library card my friend.

--
Nick Finney
69 F100 390 FE First On Race Day!



------------------------------
>From Doug_Neely bc.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 6 01:26:30 1997 From: Doug Neely Subject: Re: 460 Help Please
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com

Ed Geiser wrote:
>
> I had my local mechanic completely rebuild the 460 in my 1978 Ford 1-ton
> Super Camper Special. Among other problems, we found 2 cracked exhaust
> > valve seats on one head and 1 on the other. We magnafluxed 8 sets of used
> heads (16 heads) and found cracked exhaust seats on 14 of them. Following
> his guru's advice, who said heads on 460s during these years were
> problematic, my mechanic found a set of 1972 Lincoln 460 heads which checked
> out perfectly. His guru told him the chambers were bigger in the Lincoln,
> so we replaced the dished pistons with flat tops. We hardened the valve
> seats, etc. on the Lincoln heads. At the same time, we installed a Holley
> 750 double pumper, dual 2-1/2-inch exhaust off the stock manifolds, and an
> RV cam. There was some discussion among my mechanic's guys as to the
> correct cam timing. Apparently RV cams have both a retard and an an advance
> mark. Nobody remembers which timing mark was used to install the cam. I
> have about 2,000 miles on it since the overhaul. Here's the problem:
>
> It has pre-ignition under load pulling a 21-foot travel trailer (4,000#).
> The truck curbs at about 6,000# (I had a custom low profile utility bed
> built for it...heavy). I have retarded the timing icrementally from 6 BTDC
> to zero, but the only way I avoid pre-ignition under load at highway speed
> is to run premium and 3 cans of octane booster. And it's bound to get worse
> when summer comes to sunny Arizona. I checked the compression with engine
> > hot, carb open, and starter cranking with compression read after 4 or 5
> revolutions. The results were 175 psi (within a pound or so) for the 4
> cyclinders I checked.
>
> Before I make war with my mechanic, I would like some feed back. My primary
> question is whether or not 175 pounds of compression is so far out of whack
> that I should require premium *plus* octane booster? Also, could bad cam
> timing could be causing the problem. If so, is there a way to check it
> without pulling the timing cover?
>
> I appreciate any sage advice you can give me.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ed
> >
> ------------------------------------------
> If you are an amateur radio operator: 73 de Ed W7SEX
>
> If you're not: CAIO
>
> Old hams never die, they just lose their exciters.
>

Ed,
Have you checked the springs on the mechanical advance?
I had a similar problem with my 390 and found one of the advance springs was real loose on the mounting tab, bent the tab out to put a little tension on the spring and solved my ping.
Cheers
Doug

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------------------------------
>From Doug_Neely bc.sympatico.ca Thu Mar 6 01:46:11 1997 From: Doug Neely Subject: Good site for parts mfgs.
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com

Hi all,
Try this site out, has lots of links to parts manufacturers http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.car-stuff.com/carlinks/parts.htm


------------------------------
>From karlc cnsii.com Thu Mar 6 02:26:05 1997 From: Karl Cunningham Subject: Re: thickness of metal floor in bed To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com

At 05:27 PM 3/4/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Does anyone know what the thickness of the ....

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