From: owner-offroad-list-digest ford-trucks.com (offroad-list-digest)
To: offroad-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Subject: offroad-list-digest V2 #154
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offroad-list-digest Thursday, June 17 1999 Volume 02 : Number 154



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Offroad Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE offroad - Re: 4 spd/auto (long)
Re: FTE offroad - auto vs manual
FTE offroad - Transport
Re: FTE offroad - auto vs manual
Re: FTE offroad - auto vs manual
Re: FTE offroad - auto vs manual
Re: FTE offroad - Transport
FTE offroad - Automaticallymanualtranz
Re: FTE offroad - 4 speed for auto swap
Re: FTE offroad - 4 speed for auto swap
Re: FTE offroad - C6 in for NP435 in a 79
Re: FTE offroad - 4 speed for auto swap
Re: FTE offroad - auto vs manual
FTE offroad - 1999 superduty lift questions..

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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 17:02:50 -0700
From: John Elder
Subject: Re: FTE offroad - Re: 4 spd/auto (long)

Well said bro'


At 08:27 AM 6/13/99 -0600, you wrote:
>Here are a few points of comparison between manual and automatic
>transmissions:
>
>Manual - Advantages

>Manual - Disadvantages
>-
>Automatic - Advantages

>Automatic - Disadvantages
>Alan
>
John M Elder
Senior Technical Training Specialist
Globalstar Training
S-204A
Office: (619) 658-2003
Cell: (619) 254-0084
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 17:20:59 -0700
From: John Elder
Subject: Re: FTE offroad - auto vs manual

ok, my .02. Automatics are much smarter than manuals, i.e. they are much
better at keeping you inside the torque curve of your powerplant. I've
driven and raced just about all types. makes, and models of both worlds,
and yes a stick is much more exciting and requires lots of activity in the
cockpit and make it seem like you are going really fast and doing awesome
things. However, even though you just put it in drive and go... I go a A
LOT more places an evenly matched standard rig will never go. It's mainly
a matter of smooth application of torque to the drive train. Shocking the
tires or spining them is highly undesirable on a steep hill or a mud bog.

Take a look around at the race day winners, and see what they have. I'd
bet most of them drive autos and let their computer do the thinkin' about
when to shift.

But yes a stick SEEMs cooler..... But when one gets older and wiser....
and tireder is that a word. We like to arrive at the stop without breaking
a sweat.

At 01:54 PM 6/11/99 -0500, you wrote:
>>> Why on earth would you want to switch TO a standard though?
>>
>>Well this is going to start a whole new thread! Why on earth do people
>>buy automatics to begin with if they can master the fine art of
>>clutching?
>
>
>>I always thought of it as something for the lazy or incapable.. OK I'm
>>a minority since something like 90% of new vehicles are automatics but I
>>still snort in disdain when I see a nice truck or sporty car with an
>>auto..
>
>Amen ... the phrase "oh its an automatic" was heard quite often when I was
>looking for a car. I really wanted a V6 'stang (yes a V6), but there were
>none around with a 5spd (okay 1 that was 2yrs old with 83,000 on it). I
>ended up "settling" for the V8 5spd. I love it to death, but the money I
>could've saved by getting the V6, and the balance of the car would have
>made it a ball ... of course now I look down my nose at those same cars
>that I wanted so bad a year ago ... funny how attitudes change huh ?
>
>
> Sort of off topic but the only fault I find with a Prowler is
>>the unavailability of a 'real' transmission.. Auto Stick.. whoopee.. I
>>can do that in a station wagon; just have to be more careful about
>>moving the shift lever!
>>
>AMEN!!!!! The Lincoln LS is the same way! I love the idea behind the car,
>and would like to drive one sometime, but dang can't you put a manual
>behind it ?!?!?!?
>
>
>Just my 2cents
>
>wish
>
>Links http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/links.html
>'73 1/2 ton 4x4 Ford http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/truck.html
>'96 Mustang GT http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish/mustang.html
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
John M Elder
Senior Technical Training Specialist
Globalstar Training
S-204A
Office: (619) 658-2003
Cell: (619) 254-0084
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Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 01:49:22 -0700
From: "J.S.H."
Subject: FTE offroad - Transport

"I'm offering anybody who has trailering experience $1,000 dollars to
deliver this truck within the Ohio State borderlines, Period."

Pick up a Hemmings Motor News.There are about a dozen transporter ads
in there.
I spent some time transporting classic cars and I know if you are not
in hurry you can get that fine piece of automotive art(I may be biased
as I own one) transported "stand by" for $1000.
You would have to wait until they have a truck in the area to get the
stand by rate.If they dispatch a truck to Montana just for your Ford the
price goes way up.
The problem with stand by is that they may have a truck on the way
to Montana as we speak or it could be three months.
BTW the company I worked for is no longer in business or I would
personaly help you out.
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Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:22:37 -0400
From: James Oxley
Subject: Re: FTE offroad - auto vs manual

John Elder wrote:
>
> ok, my .02. Automatics are much smarter than manuals, i.e. they are much
> better at keeping you inside the torque curve of your powerplant.

Unless you have full manual valve body, which most autos don't, you
don't have exact control of your shift points. I can see auto's keeping
you below an RPM where your torque curve may fall off, but this assumes
that your torque curve indeed does fall off and/or that the manual
driver knows zero about their torque curve and where to shift to to
mazimize it.

I've
> driven and raced just about all types. makes, and models of both worlds,
> and yes a stick is much more exciting and requires lots of activity in the
> cockpit

Sticks are usualy faster with an extra gear and/or less power loss.
Now if your talking 600 Hp vs 630Hp, the power loss is not significant,
but if your talking 150 vs 170, or something in that range, then the
auto power loss becomes significant.

> things. However, even though you just put it in drive and go... I go a A
> LOT more places an evenly matched standard rig will never go. It's mainly
> a matter of smooth application of torque to the drive train. Shocking the
> tires or spining them is highly undesirable on a steep hill or a mud bog.

Sorry, I don't agree on a mud bog. High wheel speed is many times the
only thing allowing the tire to clean itself and not turn into a racing
slick. I do agree that an auto is better in mud bogs (cause it can shift
without stopping) and probably most hill climbs. BUT, if overall gear
for rockcrawling is your concern, then older manauls win with a first
gear on the order of 3 times the ratio of an automatic. I know, I've
heard it all about how the torque converter gives you an infinate ratio
way beyond what creeper gear in a manual gives you. It just doesn't seem
to work without mucho bucks in an auto and torque converter. I've never
driven an auto that has the throttle response that my stock, very low HP
351M and granny first has. stockish auto's are just not linear enough
for me in throttle application vs power ouput to the wheels.


> Take a look around at the race day winners, and see what they have. I'd
> bet most of them drive autos and let their computer do the thinkin' about
> when to shift.

Probably, but a clutchless manual with compter controlled idle control
would really be the way to go. Auto's can not match revs for a down
shift entering a turn.

> But yes a stick SEEMs cooler..... But when one gets older and wiser....
> and tireder is that a word. We like to arrive at the stop without breaking
> a sweat.

I agree, too bad it takes so much money to get an auto to the point of
being acceptable in shift feel, shift points, manual control, throttle
response....

OX
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Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:21:09 EDT
From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE offroad - auto vs manual

In a message dated 6/16/99 1:25:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
jelder qualcomm.com writes:

better at keeping you inside the torque curve of your powerplant.
>>
I also have to disagree here, the auto in my truck shifts at approx
4000-4500. My engine however will turn approximately 6000-6500. Unless I
manually shift, I cant even compete with a 305 bowtoy.


about when to shift. >>

My truck for sure doesnt have a computer. And the computer in all the 97
F-150s Ive driven really make downright crappy shifts if you've got the
throttle pressed firmly on the carpet, taking a full 5-6 sec to shift. I
know I can shift an old NP435 in about 2 even at most while at full throttle .

Darrell Duggan
74 F-350 "Tweety"
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Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 07:56:54 -0700
From: John Elder
Subject: Re: FTE offroad - auto vs manual

At 09:21 AM 6/16/99 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 6/16/99 1:25:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>jelder qualcomm.com writes:
>
>better at keeping you inside the torque curve of your powerplant.
>>>
>I also have to disagree here, the auto in my truck shifts at approx
>4000-4500. My engine however will turn approximately 6000-6500. Unless I
>manually shift, I cant even compete with a 305 bowtoy.
>

But is it still making torque above 4500?

A common strategy in drag racing is to short shift 2nd on wide ratio 4spds
to stay in the torque/power band.

>
>about when to shift. >>
>
>My truck for sure doesnt have a computer. And the computer in all the 97
>F-150s Ive driven really make downright crappy shifts if you've got the
>throttle pressed firmly on the carpet, taking a full 5-6 sec to shift.

Sonds like they need some service.
I
>know I can shift an old NP435 in about 2 even at most while at full
throttle .
>
>Darrell Duggan
>74 F-350 "Tweety"
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
John M Elder
Senior Technical Training Specialist
Globalstar Training
S-204A
Office: (619) 658-2003
Cell: (619) 254-0084
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 11:37:44 -0400
From: Tony Marino
Subject: Re: FTE offroad - Transport

At 01:49 AM 6/16/99 -0700, you wrote:
>"I'm offering anybody who has trailering experience $1,000 dollars to
>deliver this truck within the Ohio State borderlines, Period."
>
>Pick up a Hemmings Motor News.There are about a dozen transporter ads
>in there.
> I spent some time transporting classic cars and I know if you are not
>in hurry you can get that fine piece of automotive art(I may be biased
>as I own one) transported "stand by" for $1000.
> You would have to wait until they have a truck in the area to get the
>stand by rate.If they dispatch a truck to Montana just for your Ford the
>price goes way up.
> The problem with stand by is that they may have a truck on the way
>to Montana as we speak or it could be three months.
> BTW the company I worked for is no longer in business or I would
>personaly help you out.

Ha ha ha-- yeah, I've been waiting about a month and a half now, and I
realize the traffic going up that way isn't very substancial, and if I were....

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