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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list offroad-list); Thu, 15 Jun 2000 18:26:35 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 18:26:35 -0400 (EDT)
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offroad-list Digest Wed, 14 Jun 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 081

In This Issue:
Re: [Re: new F250...a couple questions]
New to the list and need some advice
Re: [Re: new F250...a couple questions]
ADMIN: Web site updates
Re: [Re: new F250...a couple questions]
Body lift.....or run the 33's
Re: New to the list and need some advice
Re: New to the list and need some advice
Re: New to the list and need some advice
Re: New to the list and need some advice
Re: Body lift.....or run the 33's
Re: New to the list and need some advice
Re: New to the list and need some advice
Re: New to the list and need some advice
Re: Body lift.....or run the 33's
Re: New to the list and need some advice
Re: New to the list and need some advice
Re: New to the list and need some advice
Re: New to the list and need some advice
Re: New to the list and need some advice
Re: New to the list and need some advice

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 14 Jun 00 20:20:15 EDT
From: Tim Turner netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [Re: new F250...a couple questions]

Note.. most of this pertains to '96 up vehicles but to some degree applies all
the way back to 1979.

Rebel4dManaol.com wrote:

> As for how the engine runs
> with the bigger tires, that's what the computer is there for in the first
> place. I doubt bigger tires were the goal of engineers when they built the

> computer, but alterations such as in altitude, weight load, towing
> conditions, etc. were. But no matter what, the computer will make necessary

> adjustments for you.

Not *ALL* adjustments; some variables are programmed into the PCM (computer)
and when changed without informing (reprogamming/recalibrating) the PCM/speed
sensor odd results happen. One good example is the tire size or axle ratio;
with an automatic transmission the torque converter lock up and/or overdrive
are enabled by the computer based on speed & load, with the vehicle speed
sensor now reporting an incorrect speed then shifts occur at a new (and
incorrect) actual speed leading to subtle drivability problems.

A lot depends on the vehicle involved; Ford usually gives a wide lattitude in
reprogramming based on revolutions per mile of the tires, but Chrysler will
only allow OEM sized options/ratios to be programmed in. ("pinion factor" is
their term. Unsure of GM's latest abilities but their early 90's trucks'
progamming were also based mostly on OE offerings.)


> The same computer is used for all gear ratio options

And tires etc, but has the OE information programmed in. Ford's early PCMs
were application specific (requiring differing PCMs for most changes), while
GM opted for using a few basic PCMs and a replaceable chip that carried the
information unique to that vehicle. (Made TSB type reprogramming cheaper than
a new PCM!) Newer (1996+) are reprogammable in the field for changes in base
equipment or TSBs.

> since a bigger tire is a lot like changing gear ratios, it shouldn't effect

> how the engine runs at all. The computer also only knows the engine.

More correctly it can only *modify* engine operating parameters and certain
other functions dependant on the input values it sees. The PCM already
'knows' that you're a truck, 4WD, auto trans, 4.10 ratio, A/C, P/S etc.

> It has
> nothing to do with the transmission, rear end, front end or the radio as to

> popular belief.

1) Transmission: PCM control of lock up/overdrive; also sensor tells the PCM
the gear selected by the driver. Bad sensor causes way strange results. PCM
also knows the temperature of the transmission oil and in some cases the
amount of slippage in varying parts of the transmission.

2) Again: ratio and tire size are important 'fixed' values the PCM bases it's
outputs on; like any computer if the input is wrong the output will be wrong.
"GIGO"

3) 4x4 Traction control: all computer based on differing wheel speeds; put
differing size tires front and rear and watch the mayhem.. (Also applies to
ABS but moreso side to side on the same axle.)

4) If equipped with an OE cell phone certain vehicles use either the PCM or
BCM (body control module) to mute the radio when the phone is used.

5) PCM/BCM controls A/C engagement.

I'm hard pressed to think of something that various computers DON'T know
lately.. Occupant weight; yep.. newest airbags, fuel level; check, fuel temp;
yes... oil pressure & outside humidity are about all I can think of. (and
I'm surprised the humidity isn't taken into account for A/C operation!)

Tim

____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://webmail.netscape.com.

------------------------------

From: TsWife1994aol.com
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 20:25:00 EDT
Subject: New to the list and need some advice

Hi everyone...I am April, proud owner of a '99 F150 4x4 Flareside, known as
TsToy.

While I love my truck it seems it has been nothing but an ongoing battle
between me and the Ford Dealership regarding this truck..I wont go into all
the details on all the problems but I need advice on one particular problem.

About 2 months ago I started noticing black smut building up on the back of
the truck just passed the tire and tailpipe. I would assume a little would
be "okay" however this is a severe amount of black fluid building up there.
Is' very black and a bit oily. Now the dealership is telling me this is
normal for this truck, I feel that it is not, since it was not always doing
that from day one. Everything is stock on my truck with the exception of the
tires wheels which are 33" Dunlop Mud Terrains, or something like that.
There is a tapping noise under the hood and when I tried to get the so-called
ASE technician to listen he said he didnt hear a thing but the tires, so I
"politely" pulled the truck over and asked him to step out and listen, well
he says there is a slight knock in the motor but it should be fine. Am I
just clueless or is the guy a complete fool? I told the guy that I checked
out some friends who have the same kind of truck and that their tailpipe is
in the same position as mine and they have never had the black smut like I
have had. The Tech guy at the dealership said he looked at all the trucks on
the lot and found all of them in good condition, I am like Hello they are all
brand new and freshly washed and probably have never been driven how can you
tell me this?

Is this correct is it okay to have black smut, not just a little but a lot
coming out of your tailpipe on a daily basis? I understand condensation
settles in the tailpipe overnight, but to me this just does not sound right
and the tapping seems like could be timing.

Any advice that anyone could offer would be greatly appreciated : )

~A. <~~~Thinking of changing her name to Frustrated F150 Owner...lol

------------------------------

From: BLUESKY636aol.com
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 20:36:50 EDT
Subject: Re: [Re: new F250...a couple questions]

In a message dated 06/14/2000 8:22:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ManicMechanicNCnetscape.net writes:

<< Ford usually gives a wide lattitude in reprogramming based on revolutions
per mile of the tires >>

I read in one of the off-road mags (Fourwheeler, I think.) that the Ford PCM
can tolerate up to a 10% change in tire diameter with no ill effects if you
don't change the speedo gear. I went from 265/70-17 (about 32") tires to
285/75-16 (about 33") tires on my 98 Expedition without changing the speedo
gear and have suffered no ill effects. The difference in tire size is about
3%. At 65 mph (indicated), my actual speed is about 68 mph. Not a big enough
difference to merit changing the speedo gear. I also did not change the front
and rear axle gears. Currently have the stock 3.73. A 3.90 gear set would
bring the engine revs/road speed back into line but the closest set available
is 4.10 (or 4.11). Again, not worth the time and money for my use.

Bill and Deb Haegele and Betsy and Oliver (The Fourwheeling Puppies)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 20:44:15 -0400
From: Ken Payne ford-trucks.com>
Subject: ADMIN: Web site updates

Ford Truck Enthusiasts web site updates:
http://www.ford-trucks.com

June 14:
Pictorial additions: 1955 F100, 1969 F250 4x4 Crew Cab, 1970 F250 Sport Custom 4x4, 1978 F150 4x4, 1999 Ranger

June 11:
Pictorial additions: 1966 F100, 1977 F250 Highboy, 1978 F150 Custom, 1988 F250

Later,
Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts


------------------------------

From: "Jason Derra" internetcds.com>
Subject: Re: [Re: new F250...a couple questions]
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 22:43:05 -0700


> The same computer is used for all gear ratio options
> And tires etc, but has the OE information programmed in. Ford's early
PCMs
> were application specific (requiring differing PCMs for most changes),
It is true that they use different computers for different applications
instead of a PROM chip, but the computer doesn't know or care about tire > sizes and gear ratios. For example, the basic 5.0 SEFI mass air engine > Mustang has 4 ECM's available. 1. Auto, Fed. 2. Manual, Fed. 3. Auto,
Calif Emis. 4. Manual, Calif Emis. There is not a computer just for 3.08
gears or 3.55 gears. I have an '86 Lincoln LSC 5.0 HO and an AOD (same
engine as the Mustang) in my Bronco. The original tires from the Lincoln
were much smaller than the 35's that currently reside there. The shift

points, lockup RPM, etc are very close to where the Lincoln performed at
(within 100 RPM). Keep in mind that this was the EEC IV system used up
until around '93 which was replaced with EEC V which is much more intolerant
of changes to the drivetrain than the older systems you are referring to.
Jason
'69 Bronco > '96 F250 Ext Cab 4WD Powerstroke

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Turner" netscape.net>
To: ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 5:20 PM
Subject: [offroad-list] Re: [Re: new F250...a couple questions]


> Note.. most of this pertains to '96 up vehicles but to some degree applies
all
> the way back to 1979.
>
> Rebel4dManaol.com wrote:
>
> > As for how the engine runs
> > with the bigger tires, that's what the computer is there for in the
first
> > place. I doubt bigger tires were the goal of engineers when they built
the
>
> > computer, but alterations such as in altitude, weight load, towing
> > conditions, etc. were. But no matter what, the computer will make
necessary
>
> > adjustments for you.
>
> Not *ALL* adjustments; some variables are programmed into the PCM
(computer)
> and when changed without informing (reprogamming/recalibrating) the
PCM/speed
> sensor odd results happen. One good example is the tire size or axle
ratio;
> with an automatic transmission the torque converter lock up and/or
overdrive
> are enabled by the computer based on speed & load, with the vehicle speed
> sensor now reporting an incorrect speed then shifts occur at a new (and
> incorrect) actual speed leading to subtle drivability problems.
>
> A lot depends on the vehicle involved; Ford usually gives a wide lattitude
in
> reprogramming based on revolutions per mile of the tires, but Chrysler
will
> only allow OEM sized options/ratios to be programmed in. ("pinion factor"
is
> their term. Unsure of GM's latest abilities but their early 90's trucks'
> progamming were also based mostly on OE offerings.)
>
>
> > while
> GM opted for using a few basic PCMs and a replaceable chip that carried
the
> information unique to that vehicle. (Made TSB type reprogramming cheaper
than
> a new PCM!) Newer (1996+) are reprogammable in the field for changes in
base
> equipment or TSBs.
>
> > since a bigger tire is a lot like changing gear ratios, it shouldn't
effect
>
> > how the engine runs at all. The computer also only knows the engine.
>
> More correctly it can only *modify* engine operating parameters and
certain
> other functions dependant on the input values it sees. The PCM already
> 'knows' that you're a truck, 4WD, auto trans, 4.10 ratio, A/C, P/S etc.
>
> > It has
> > nothing to do with the transmission, rear end, front end or the radio as
to
>
> > popular belief.
>
> 1) Transmission: PCM control of lock up/overdrive; also sensor tells the
PCM
> the gear selected by the driver. Bad sensor causes way strange results.
PCM
> also knows the temperature of the transmission oil and in some cases the
> amount of slippage in varying parts of the transmission.
>
> 2) Again: ratio and tire size are important 'fixed' values the PCM bases
it's
> outputs on; like any computer if the input is wrong the output will be
wrong.
> "GIGO"
>
> 3) 4x4 Traction control: all computer based on differing wheel speeds;
put
> differing size tires front and rear and watch the mayhem.. (Also applies
to
> ABS but moreso side to side on the same axle.)
>
> 4) If equipped with an OE cell phone certain vehicles use either the PCM
or
> BCM (body control module) to mute the radio when the phone is used.
>
> 5) PCM/BCM controls A/C engagement.
>
> I'm hard pressed to think of something that various computers DON'T know
> lately.. Occupant weight; yep.. newest airbags, fuel level; check, fuel
temp;
> yes... oil pressure & outside humidity are about all I can think of.
(and
> I'm surprised the humidity isn't taken into account for A/C operation!)
>
> Tim
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://webmail.netscape.com.
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listarford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe offroad-list" in the subject of the
> message.
>
>


------------------------------

From: Rebel4dManaol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 01:38:43 EDT
Subject: Body lift.....or run the 33's

I got an offer today from a guy that wants to buy the tires that are on my
truck. He's gonna give me $100 ea. for my Goodyear Wrangler 265/75R15. This
is great ya know, but, now I have to decide on what tire to put on to replace
it. I have a '96 Ranger 4X4 w/ a 4" lift. I know I need a new wheel, and
have some lined up already. But, I don't know if I should run 33's or 35's.
To run 33's I don't have to do anything lift wise but to run a 35 then I need
a body lift. I much rather run 35's but I don't know about body lifting it.
So, my questions are: Has anyone body lifted a 95-97 Ranger or like truck
before? If so, can you purdy please give me any tips or problems that you
have or had? Please address the following mostly: fan to fan shroud,
steering and bumpers. Thanks in advance.
-Brian Sack
'96 Ranger 4X4 4.0L/auto. 4" Superlift

------------------------------

From: "Brad DeFore" computerlogic.com>
Subject: Re: New to the list and need some advice
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 08:30:10 -0400

Hi April, It is not normal for oily black smut to build up on the body. The
inside of the pipe itself can develop carbon deposits but should be dry to
the touch. What I have done in the past with recalcitrant dealership
mechanics (one good reason I hate to take a vehicle to one). Is to drive the
vehicle into the "check in" area and tell them your going to discuss all the
problems that I've had with the vehicle with the owner/manager of the
company. Preferably catch this person on the showroom floor, and explain
(not yelling but loud enough so that they think other "New" customers can
hear you) to them all the problems you've had with their service
department. This has worked quite well with me in the past and after the
2'nd time the service people always jumped on my vehicle right away! I know
this is dirty but they (dealerships) do some dirty tricks too. If you still
can't get help write to the home office they hate to hear about disgruntled
customers, and let the owner know that you are going to do so also! And
don't be frustrated Ford's are good vehicles, it's just some dealerships
suck big time!


~A. <~~~Thinking of changing her name to Frustrated F150 Owner...lol


------------------------------

From: TsWife1994aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 09:03:34 EDT
Subject: Re: New to the list and need some advice

In a message dated 06/15/2000 8:31:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
bdeforecomputerlogic.com writes:

<< Preferably catch this person on the showroom floor, and explain
(not yelling but loud enough so that they think other "New" customers can
hear you) to them all the problems you've had with their service
department. This has worked quite well with me in the past and after the
2'nd time the service people always jumped on my vehicle right away! I know
this is dirty but they (dealerships) do some dirty tricks too. If you still
can't get help write to the home office they hate to hear about disgruntled
customers, and let the owner know that you are going to do so also! And
don't be frustrated Ford's are good vehicles, it's just some dealerships
suck big time! >>

I have talked to the shop foreman and the service manager numerous times and
have gotten no results. Took them 4 months to replace the glovebox that
broke due to defect and the rear window was defected as well..it was leaking
all in the cab took two months to get that repaired, the torsion bars that
were uneven causing the truck to be leaning, the loose bed that was rattling
down the road, having to push and release the clutch 3-4 times to downshift,
stalling out going though intersections. It has just been a nightmare from
day one. I got nasty the last time I was up there, I was quite upset because
they kept failing to give me my warranty paper work and kept telling me they
would mail it...I finally got it once I was nasty.

Don't get me wrong I LOVE Ford vehicles, we are a Ford family and that is all
we buy, but I think we are just be swindled with this truck. We are on a
lease with it so they know they have us by the you know whats.

I guess I will just have to sit down and write out my complaints to the store
owner about our gripes and complaints. I just hate feeling like I am
throwing "x" amount of dollars away every month on a vehicle that is falling
apart. We have only had it for 7 months and it has been in the shop over 6
times already. This is our first "new" vehicle and we have had SO many
problems with it, makes me miss the our 93 ranger that we had for 6yrs that
never had a problem and had over 200,000mi on it.

I have considered taking it to another dealership for a second opinion but I
do not know if under contract am I allowed too. I know the shop foreman
thinks I am a flaky blonde woman, but I know he treats my husband the same
way and boy does that rile him up. He has finally gotten to the point to
where he says the heck with it if the engine blows he will tow up there and
dump it in there service dept and let them deal with it. I think we just got
a "bad" truck in general, not the make or anything just the truck itself. I
can deal with minor problems, but these just do not equate to minor in my
book...the thing is falling apart. We do not abuse the vehicle, we took it
out once to test the new tires and that was it...we keep it on the street.
For fun we take the other toy.

I hate sound like I am whining, and I probably am, but I just hate to see a
waste of such money and effort.
~April

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 09:59:25 -0400
From: Ken Payne ford-trucks.com>
Subject: Re: New to the list and need some advice


>
>I hate sound like I am whining, and I probably am, but I just hate to see a
>waste of such money and effort.
>~April

No, you're not whining. There are tons of legitimate complaints
about Ford dealers. Many of them are the fault of FoMoco because
they've cut warranty times so techs don't want to do as much
warranty work because they complain that they can't make a living
with warranty work. Try another dealer or ask to speak to someone
higher up such as a Ford zone rep. Ford's customer assistance
phone number can be found on Ford's web site.

Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts



------------------------------

From: william.hickeybankofamerica.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 10:19:59 -0400
Subject: Re: New to the list and need some advice



Ditto ....... You have legitmate complaints ......... a new Ford truck should
not be giving you these kind of problems ....
Bill




Ken Payne ford-trucks.com> on 06/15/2000 09:59:25 AM

Please respond to offroad-listford-trucks.com

To: offroad-listford-trucks.com
cc: (bcc: William R. Hickey/USA/BAC)
Subject: [offroad-list] Re: New to the list and need some advice




>
>I hate sound like I am whining, and I probably am, but I just hate to see a
>waste of such money and effort.
>~April

No, you're not whining. There are tons of legitimate complaints
about Ford dealers. Many of them are the fault of FoMoco because
they've cut warranty times so techs don't want to do as much
warranty work because they complain that they can't make a living
with warranty work. Try another dealer or ask to speak to someone
higher up such as a Ford zone rep. Ford's customer assistance
phone number can be found on Ford's web site.

Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts


==========================================================
To unsubscribe, send email to: listarford-trucks.com with
the words "unsubscribe offroad-list" in the subject of the
message.



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------------------------------

From: william.hickeybankofamerica.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 10:55:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Body lift.....or run the 33's



Brian,
I did a 2 inch body lift on my old 93 SC several years ago. Not a big deal to
do. Working by myself, it took two days to have my truck back on the road. I
suspect it should only take a full day if you have a buddy helping you and you
have all the tools on hand. The kit I used supplied drop down brackets for the
fan shroud and a different ground strap. Also a bracket was supplied for the
emergency brake cable which didn't work for me. I ended up fashioning my own
several weeks later. I had a terrible problem with the supplied front bumper > brackets which I ended modifying. Even then, I couldn't get the bumper > 'exactly' straight (I am very picky) so I ended up pushing it in place against a
large tree. It took me several weeks to get around to cutting the plastic piece
(under the bumper) to fit correctly. The steering extension piece they supplied
didn't quite fit so I ended up grinding that down a bit (not a big deal). I left
the rear bumper as is since they didn't supply any brackets for it. I have
heard that some folks raise it by fashioning their own rear bumper brackets and
a little welding. I think it looks lousy from the rear with the bumper down 2
or 3 inches from the tailgate. I didn't do anything with my lowered gear shift
lever. I think some people put extensions on them but 2 inches lost wasn't a
big deal to me. Advice ......... get plenty of Loktite for all the threaded
bolts ........... Don't bother to put back your carpeting or bedliner until you
drive it for a few days and retighten the mounting bolts (Mine managed to loosen
up) ............ Also ....... when I raised the bed, I noticed that some
support was lost because the middle of it no longer rests on the frame. I would
think that under an 'extremely' heavy load in the center of the bed, it could
possibly bend in the center. I planned but never got around to placing a 2 by 6
or something for it to rest on. I think the kit I used was from Performance
Accessories via JC Whitney.
Good luck,
Bill





Rebel4dManaol.com on 06/15/2000 01:38:43 AM

Please respond to offroad-listford-trucks.com

To: offroad-listford-trucks.com
cc: (bcc: William R. Hickey/USA/BAC)
Subject: [offroad-list] Body lift.....or run the 33's



I got an offer today from a guy that wants to buy the tires that are on my
truck. He's gonna give me $100 ea. for my Goodyear Wrangler 265/75R15. This
is great ya know, but, now I have to decide on what tire to put on to replace
it. I have a '96 Ranger 4X4 w/ a 4" lift. I know I need a new wheel, and
have some lined up already. But, I don't know if I should run 33's or 35's.
To run 33's I don't have to do anything lift wise but to run a 35 then I need
a body lift. I much rather run 35's but I don't know about body lifting it.
So, my questions are: Has anyone body lifted a 95-97 Ranger or like truck
before? If so, can you purdy please give me any tips or problems that you
have or had? Please address the following mostly: fan to fan shroud,
steering and bumpers. Thanks in advance.
-Brian Sack
'96 Ranger 4X4 4.0L/auto. 4" Superlift
==========================================================
To unsubscribe, send email to: listarford-trucks.com with
the words "unsubscribe offroad-list" in the subject of the
message.



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 10:13:49 -0700
From: dave Prasse gte.net>
Subject: Re: New to the list and need some advice

Hi April,

No , you are not whining ...

you need to "Kick Butt !" :-)

My Grandfather got jerked around by the local Ford Dlr. on a new car
purchase ... he wrote to Dearborn and complained ... 3 wks later
a new vehicle showed up at the Dlr. with his name on about 20 tags
hanging in various places on/in the car , along with a price sticker ...
no profit to the dlr. on that sale! :-)

My wife and I had problems with the same dlr. when it came to replacing
the head gaskets on our 3.8L Mercury diSabled ....

Dlrs need to be slapped around a little once in awhile .

dave Prasse

------------------------------

From: JUMPINFORDaol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 11:24:34 EDT
Subject: Re: New to the list and need some advice

April, would it be possible for you to visit another Dealership? My buddy
had dealer probs regarding hi 97 Dakota. Every 3000 miles, the intake
manifold would develop a coolant leak. Strangley this was after they had to
do a top end rebuild do to bent valves (tranny missed a shift while passing,
lil 318 saw about 10k RPMS). So while he was in town from Reno, we went and
saw the local dealer, they listened to the complaint, and agreed whole
heartedly the head was most likely the problem, and not the 2 new intakes the
other dealer put on. They went on as to do some inside communication, which
resulted in the local dealer taking care of the prob. I guess dealerships
can snitch eachother out. Or another thing you could do is go in with a
camera, start taking pictures. If they ask what your doing, tell em your
lawyer asked for some photos of the area. Nuthin says listen like Lawsuit.

Darrell Duggan
74 F-350 "Tweety"

------------------------------

From: JUMPINFORDaol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 11:30:27 EDT
Subject: Re: New to the list and need some advice

Just out of curiosity, where are you located? Might be an FTE member that
could give you a hand at the dealer. I've been successful in getting probs
taken care of when I prove I know more about cars than the service writer.
Had one guy refuse to take care of a coworkers contour. The tranny was
confused, sometimes trying to use two gears at once. I was able to point out
his back tracking and restating the information I had just givin him to make
himself sound more intelligent. Eventually got to the point he admitted flat
out he was no mechanic, and he was just going by a book. Problem solved,
tranny was fixed.

Darrell & Tweety

------------------------------

From: "Jason Derra" internetcds.com>
Subject: Re: Body lift.....or run the 33's
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 08:42:51 -0700

............ Also ....... when I raised the bed, I noticed that some
> support was lost because the middle of it no longer rests on the frame. I
would
> think that under an 'extremely' heavy load in the center of the bed, it
could
> possibly bend in the center.
Most of the better kits out there come with 2 inch channel to take up the
space between the bed and the frame so that the bed won't bow in the middle.
Jason
'69 Bronco > '96 F250 Ext Cab 4WD Powerstroke

----- Original Message -----
From: bankofamerica.com>
To: ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 7:55 AM
Subject: [offroad-list] Re: Body lift.....or run the 33's


>
>
> Brian,
> I did a 2 inch body lift on my old 93 SC several years ago. Not a big
deal to
> do. Working by myself, it took two days to have my truck back on the
road. I
> suspect it should only take a full day if you have a buddy helping you and
you
> have all the tools on hand. The kit I used supplied drop down brackets
for the
> fan shroud and a different ground strap. Also a bracket was supplied for
the
> emergency brake cable which didn't work for me. I ended up fashioning my
own
> several weeks later. I had a terrible problem with the supplied front
bumper > > brackets which I ended modifying. Even then, I couldn't get the bumper > > 'exactly' straight (I am very picky) so I ended up pushing it in place
against a
> large tree. It took me several weeks to get around to cutting the plastic
piece
> (under the bumper) to fit correctly. The steering extension piece they
supplied
> didn't quite fit so I ended up grinding that down a bit (not a big deal).
I left
> the rear bumper as is since they didn't supply any brackets for it. I
have
> heard that some folks raise it by fashioning their own rear bumper > brackets and
> a little welding. I think it looks lousy from the rear with the bumper > down 2
> or 3 inches from the tailgate. I didn't do anything with my lowered gear
shift
> lever. I think some people put extensions on them but 2 inches lost
wasn't a
> big deal to me. Advice ......... get plenty of Loktite for all the
threaded
> bolts ........... Don't bother to put back your carpeting or bedliner
until you
> drive it for a few days and retighten the mounting bolts (Mine managed to
loosen
> up) I planned but never got around to placing a 2 by 6
> or something for it to rest on. I think the kit I used was from
Performance
> Accessories via JC Whitney.
> Good luck,
> Bill
>
>
>
>
>
> Rebel4dManaol.com on 06/15/2000 01:38:43 AM
>
> Please respond to offroad-listford-trucks.com
>
> To: offroad-listford-trucks.com
> cc: (bcc: William R. Hickey/USA/BAC)
> Subject: [offroad-list] Body lift.....or run the 33's
>
>
>
> I got an offer today from a guy that wants to buy the tires that are on my
> truck. He's gonna give me $100 ea. for my Goodyear Wrangler 265/75R15.
This
> is great ya know, but, now I have to decide on what tire to put on to
replace
> it. I have a '96 Ranger 4X4 w/ a 4" lift. I know I need a new wheel, and
> have some lined up already. But, I don't know if I should run 33's or
35's.
> To run 33's I don't have to do anything lift wise but to run a 35 then I
need
> a body lift. I much rather run 35's but I don't know about body lifting
it.
> So, my questions are: Has anyone body lifted a 95-97 Ranger or like truck
> before? If so, can you purdy please give me any tips or problems that you
> have or had? Please address the following mostly: fan to fan shroud,
> steering and bumpers. Thanks in advance.
> -Brian Sack
> '96 Ranger 4X4 4.0L/auto. 4" Superlift
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>
>


------------------------------

From: Ynotatvaol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 11:44:13 EDT
Subject: Re: New to the list and need some advice

April, call the better business bureau, ask them for their arbitration line
in Virginia. when you call that number explain your situation and they will
send you out some papework. fill it out and send copies of all your repair
orders and such. tell them that its become a SAFETY ISSUE that your afraid
that the truck will leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere or cause an
accident. i did this to GMC and it does work! you have to keep pushing and
you will get a hearing. if i can offer anymore assistance let me know.

terry

2000 f-350 psd 4x4 crew cab!

------------------------------

From: TsWife1994aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 14:25:14 EDT
Subject: Re: New to the list and need some advice

In a message dated 06/15/2000 11:32:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
JUMPINFORDaol.com writes:

<< Just out of curiosity, where are you located? Might be an FTE member that
could give you a hand at the dealer. I've been successful in getting probs
taken care of when I prove I know more about cars than the service writer.
Had one guy refuse to take care of a coworkers contour. The tranny was
confused, sometimes trying to use two gears at once. I was able to point
out
his back tracking and restating the information I had just givin him to make
himself sound more intelligent. Eventually got to the point he admitted
flat
out he was no mechanic, and he was just going by a book. Problem solved,
tranny was fixed. >>


We are in Jacksonville FL
~April

------------------------------

From: TsWife1994aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 14:43:38 EDT
Subject: Re: New to the list and need some advice

To ALL that sent me respones today...THANK YOU SO MUCH for the great advice.
I did find an 800 # for Ford Customer Care and an address so that I can
personally write them a letter. Hopefully I will get some results from them
unlike with the dealership.
~April

------------------------------

From: TsWife1994aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 14:47:52 EDT
Subject: Re: New to the list and need some advice

In a message dated 06/15/2000 11:26:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
JUMPINFORDaol.com writes:

<< Or another thing you could do is go in with a
camera, start taking pictures. If they ask what your doing, tell em your
lawyer asked for some photos of the area. Nuthin says listen like Lawsuit.
>>

Darrell this sounds like something I would do...lol I will definitely keep
this in mind : )
~April

------------------------------

From: TsWife1994aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 14:58:33 EDT
Subject: Re: New to the list and need some advice

In a message dated 06/15/2000 8:31:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
bdeforecomputerlogic.com writes:

<< Hi April, It is not normal for oily black smut to build up on the body. The
inside of the pipe itself can develop carbon deposits but should be dry to
the touch. >>


Thank you...by golly I am normal..lol I can write my name in it is so black.
I even told the "gentleman" yes tailpipes get dirty on the inside and around
the eges...this is not my complaint, my complaint being I can write my name
in the smut on the side of my rear bumper" Kind of like taking your finger
and running it in the inside of a chimney and when you are done the end of
your finger is covered in soot...to him, the tech, this is normal. I don't
think so.
~April

------------------------------

From: JUMPINFORDaol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 19:25:03 EDT
Subject: Re: New to the list and need some advice

In a message dated 6/15/00 12:01:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
TsWife1994aol.com writes:

<< Kind of like taking your finger
and running it in the inside of a chimney and when you are done the end of
your finger is covered in soot...to him, the tech, this is normal. I don't
think so. >>

This engine is definitely not running right, either to rich, or someone
forgot to install Valve seals. Does it use oil excessively? Whats your
mileage like? Another thing kinda popped in my head today thinkin about
this. If your engine is putting that crap on your truck, its also getting
into the environment. This falls under emissions, which they MUST service,
or face severe fines by the EPA. Boy you got enough dirt on that dealership
to really cause hell. If you dont get much further in the next week, use the
truck to redecorate the landscaping. If anything else you may feel better
about yourself.

Darrell & Tweety

------------------------------

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