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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list offroad-list); Fri, 26 May 2000 20:39:22 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 20:39:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server ford-trucks.com>
To: offroad-list digest users ford-trucks.com>
Reply-to: offroad-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: offroad-list Digest V2000 #70
Precedence: bulk

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------------------------------------
offroad-list Digest Thu, 25 May 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 070

In This Issue:
Re: Transmission Problems - Bad News
Re: Transmission Problems - Bad News
Re: Transmission Problems - Bad News
Re: Transmission Problems - Bad News
Re: Transmission Problems - Bad News
A/C Compressor
Re: A/C Compressor
transmission problems
Re: Body Lifts HELP
Transmission problems - Final Diagnosis
Re: Body Lifts HELP

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: BRIGANDBAR aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 20:39:13 EDT
Subject: Re: Transmission Problems - Bad News

Bill:

Sorry to here about the bad news.

E4OD, I presume?

Hope it works out.

Steve

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 18:47:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: chris coleman yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Transmission Problems - Bad News

BIll, I hear your whoas from having tranny problems in
an Expy. I am currently on Tranny position sensor #2
and will soon be on #3 since it is affecting the way
my truck starts. I'm surprised you didn't get the
dreaded dash lights like I seem to get(guess you
didn't go into 4 feet deep water!!!! he he he he he).
Well, I wish you luck.

Chris "Thermo" Coleman

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://invites.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

From: BLUESKY636 aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 23:04:41 EDT
Subject: Re: Transmission Problems - Bad News

In a message dated 05/25/2000 8:21:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
JUMPINFORD aol.com writes:

<< I can understand not wanting to hurt the truck, but Id look at this as an
obstacle to overcome. The obstacle being how to keep the truck from fryin
its guts.... We wouldnt have made it to the moon with that attitude :)
Good luck with the truck, Cant go to long without hearin about your travels,
It helps to calm my offroading itch....

Darrell and Tweety
"Fight for the cause!" >>

That mud hole has caused a number of my friends a lot of heartache. I always
thought gumbo mud was worse, but this thin, watery stuff gets into everything!

Once I get the truck back I am going to locate all of the connectors and see
what can be done to waterproof them beter as well as see if there is any way
the water could have gotten into the trans.

Don't worry. We will still be out exploring the trails. Just with a little
more caution around mud!

Bill and Deb Haegele and Betsy and Oliver (The Fourwheeling Puppies)

------------------------------

From: BLUESKY636aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 23:05:52 EDT
Subject: Re: Transmission Problems - Bad News

In a message dated 05/25/2000 8:43:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
BRIGANDBARaol.com writes:

<< Sorry to here about the bad news.

E4OD, I presume? >>

Yup.

<< Hope it works out. >>

Ted Britt Ford has made me a deal I can't refuse.

Bill and Deb Haegele and Betsy and Oliver (The Fourwheeling Puppies)

------------------------------

From: BLUESKY636aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 23:24:12 EDT
Subject: Re: Transmission Problems - Bad News

In a message dated 05/25/2000 9:48:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

thermomonkeyyahoo.com writes:

<< BIll, I hear your whoas from having tranny problems in
an Expy. I am currently on Tranny position sensor #2
and will soon be on #3 since it is affecting the way
my truck starts. I'm surprised you didn't get the
dreaded dash lights like I seem to get(guess you
didn't go into 4 feet deep water!!!! he he he he he).
Well, I wish you luck. >>

Chris,

That is the funny thing. Neither Cindy Barley nor I got any sort of trouble
indication or flashing OD Off light. Tony Stagge did see his ODD Off light
flash a few times, but not consistently.

I will be leary of 4 INCHES of water for a while, let alone four FEET!

Bill and Deb Haegele and Betsy and Oliver (The Fourwheeling Puppies)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 01:37:06 -0700
From: SBJ wsu.edu>
Subject: A/C Compressor

Hi All,
Okay, I have found how useless chiltons is now.... I am looking at
adding on-board air to my Bronco. I have an 86, and it DID NOT come with
factory A/C. So, what I am asking is what pulley will I need to get from a
junk yard to allow me the use of the air compressor i have? I thought i
would need a new one off the crank, but am not sure. Also, what would the
bracket look like, and where would it be, for me to go looking in junk
yards for one to mount the compressor to, i don't want to have to fab a
bracket to mount the compressor. I have as a said, an 86 with the 351 in
it, and no provisions for A/C, and the compressor i'll be mounting will be
a York. Any help will be greatly appreciated!

TIA
Scotty
-
'86 XLT, 351W, C-6, NP 208, 9" (lsd), 3.50 gears ....
polarwsu.edu
www.wsu.edu/~polar
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.off-road.com/ford/bigbroncos/
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.superford.org/cgi-bin/sf.cgi?uid=default&vr2=1&ID=713


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 06:38:41 -0700
From: "Mike Simpkins" nosc.mil>
Subject: Re: A/C Compressor

You need to contact my friend, Brad Kilby. I believe he may be able to set you
up. I have attached his email....

SBJ wrote:

> Hi All,
> Okay, I have found how useless chiltons is now.... I am looking at
> adding on-board air to my Bronco. I have an 86, and it DID NOT come with
> factory A/C. So, what I am asking is what pulley will I need to get from a
> junk yard to allow me the use of the air compressor i have? I thought i
> would need a new one off the crank, but am not sure. Also, what would the
> bracket look like, and where would it be, for me to go looking in junk
> yards for one to mount the compressor to, i don't want to have to fab a
> bracket to mount the compressor. I have as a said, an 86 with the 351 in
> it, and no provisions for A/C, and the compressor i'll be mounting will be
> a York. Any help will be greatly appreciated!
>
> TIA
> Scotty
> -
> '86 XLT, 351W, C-6, NP 208, 9" (lsd), 3.50 gears ....
> polarwsu.edu
> www.wsu.edu/~polar
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.off-road.com/ford/bigbroncos/
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.superford.org/cgi-bin/sf.cgi?uid=default&vr2=1&ID=713
>
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listarford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe offroad-list" in the subject of the
> message.

--
Michael A. Simpkins
Computer Sciences Corporation, San Diego
Network Engineering Support to
SPAWAR System Center, Code D0297
49590 Lassing Road, A226
San Diego, CA 92152
* Voice 619.553.2261
* Mobile 619.252.7963
* Fax 619.553.2969
* simpkinsnosc.mil




------------------------------

From: "Scott Grossen" ucs.orst.edu>
Subject: transmission problems
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:39:40 -0700

ive seen similar problems with E40D not saying that the same thing is going
on, we bought my dads truck wrecked, 95 f150 and had constant trouble with
the transmission. we took the truck int the ford dealer several times,
because it would switch into limp home mode for no apparent reason all of
the time, they replaced the torque converter and several sensors. 800
dollars later they told us that when it happened to disconnect the battery
for 10 minutes and it would work again. my dad was unhappy, about this $800
for nothing so he pulled it apart turned out that a piece of the filter was
in the shift body, and blocking off one of the ports occasionally, problem
solved.


------------------------------

From: "Joe" earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Body Lifts HELP
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 11:41:03 -0700

Scotty,

Some free advice, and that's the best kind....I have a 90 Bronco, which I
bought with an existing 3" lift. One of the major problems, other than
cosmetic, is the radiator location. When you lift the body, the motor and
fan stay where they are and the radiator has to be lowered, which means you
have to cut out the lower portion of the radiator support, which is a welded
in deal. Looks like hell when you're done. Auto trans shift rod had to be
lengthened also. One other problem I found in my case was that you lose some
support under the seats, which created a creaking sound whenever I had
someone in the passenger seat. My Bronco also had a towing package, which
had to be relocated. When it's all said and done, you do a lot of work to
save a few bucks over a legitimate lift kit, and to me the vehicle just
plain looks ugly with all that frame hanging out. I removed the body lift
kit as soon as I could afford to buy a complete lift kit. I bought a
complete 6" Pro Comp lift kit for $799.00 from 4 Wheel Parts Unlimited
through one of their magazine ads. Came complete with dual shocks and
stainless lines. Did the work myself, but it took about two weeks with a
cutting torch and all the right tools to get all the factory bolts out. Best
bet if you don't have a lot of tools and time is to have it installed by the
shop.

P.S. I'm running 35" tires now with 4.11 gears, mileage is horrible, ride is
rough, but it looks good.

Joe, 90 XLT, 351, E40D, shift kit.




----- Original Message -----
From: SBJ wsu.edu>
To: moab.off-road.com>; 2bigbroncos.org>;
ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 11:10 PM
Subject: [offroad-list] Body Lifts HELP


> Okay, I don't want to clutter the list up with these, so please email me
> off list with any answers. I know this has been asked, but I really need
> to know.
>
> When I put a body lift on my Bronco most likely a 3" WHAT all will need
to
> be extended and or bent???
> I know about looking at the gas filler, the NP208 shifter, my auto tranny
> cable, and ebrake....
>
> Will there be enough extra for my brake lines, wiring and such? And will
i
> have to weld in an extension for my auto tranny or can i let out some
cable
> from the column, same for the ebrake?
> People have said before to check for these.... but i'd really like some
> concrete answers from anyone who has done a body lift, or has one.
>
> I don't want to get half way done, and find that there is something that
> i'm not equipped to do when the Bronco is my only transportation. Sorry
> for bringing this all up again, when i do it, i'm going to put up a page,
> so we can just refer people to it. Unless all Broncos aren't necessarily
> created equal? I'd hope so from 80-86 at least.
>
> TIA guys,
> scotty
> -
> '86 XLT, 351W, C-6, NP 208, 9" (lsd), 3.50 gears ....
> polarwsu.edu
> www.wsu.edu/~polar
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.off-road.com/ford/bigbroncos/
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.superford.org/cgi-bin/sf.cgi?uid=default&vr2=1&ID=713
>
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listarford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe offroad-list" in the subject of the
> message.
>
>


------------------------------

From: BLUESKY636aol.com
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 15:25:29 EDT
Subject: Transmission problems - Final Diagnosis

OK. I stopped at Ted Britt Ford on my way into work this morning and spent 30
minutes talking with the technician that has been working on my truck. Here
is what he told me:

They have a portable transmission tester that plugs into the transmission,
bypassing the main computer. It allows them to test ALL electronic/electrical
operation of the transmission in both bench test (stationary) and road test.
It allows them to both functionally and electrically test the shift solenoids.

There are five solenoids in one solenoid pack. They control the 1-2 shift,
2-3 shift, torque convertor lockup and I forget what else. In bench test
mode, the tester allows the technician to remotely activate each solenoid
individually. Solenoid operation is verified both by listening to the
solenoid click in and out as well as by an indicator light. They can also
test the electrical resistance of the solenoid coil.

ALL FIVE SOLENOIDS TESTED NORMAL.

After doing the bench test, they then drove the truck using the test set to
control the transmission. The buttons on the tester allow them to manually
shift the transmission and hold it in gear one shift at a time. During the
road test, the 1-2 shift worked normally. The 2-3 shift did not.

The error code they received (I forget the number, but have it written down)
indicated excessive torque convertor slip. Replacement of the turbine speed
sensor did not help.

Although the trans fluid looked OK on the dip stick, when they dropped the
pan, there was a visual indication of burned fluid (brown tinge) as well as
the smell of burned fluid.

The technician's theory is this: A failure (no way to tell if the initial
failure was electrical or mechanical in nature) prevented the transmission
from shifting into the upper gears when we hit pavement. The torque convertor
was not able to build up enough fluid pressure and overran causing a flywheel
condition. With insufficient fluid pressure, the 2-3 clutch pack was not able
to engage causing excessive slippage, burning the clutches and the fluid.
With the clutch pack damaged, the torque convertor continued to overrun,
creating a cycle of low pressure/burned clutches. This is why the engine RPM
dropped to idle when taking your foot off the gas at 40 mph. It is also the
reason the truck rolled backward in my driveway when in first gear and I took
my foot off the brake. Finally, it is the reason why the torque convertor
failed to start grabbing until the engine reached almost 2000 rpm with my
foot on the brake.

Of course, all of this is only a theory and cannot be verified until Ford
actually does a post mortem on the tranny. The dealer will not tear it down.

This is what Ted Britt Ford is doing for me:

Parts and labor on a new transmission is about $3000.00. They are only
charging me $500.00, PLUS they are giving me a FREE extended power train
warranty (engine, trans, transfer case, front and rear axles) with coverage
extending to 75,000 miles (I currently have 46,500 on the truck). This is a
deal I cannot refuse.

Why are they doing this? Well, the nice idea is that they like me. The
cynical idea is that what we are experiencing is yet another known problem of
the E4OD trans (found a lot of them on the Internet) and Ford is trying to
divert some heat from themselves.

Can Tom and Cindy get a similar deal? I don't know, but they should certainly
press the issue that this same problem happened to THREE TOUGH TRUCKS that
are advertised to be capable of such use. The fact that it happened to all
three trucks just blew the technician's mind. I do not plan to press the
issue as I feel that Ted Britt is really bending over backward for me and I
want to continue our good relationship.

On the upside, the technician told me that the new trans will have all of the
upgrades that went into making up the 4R100. So the new trans will have
upgraded solenoids, internal mechanical parts, etc. In effect, it will be a
4R100 in all but name only.

They hope to have the transmission by Tuesday or Wednesday of next week and
have me back on the road by the end of the week. I also had them change the
transfer case and both differential fluids just to be sure.

I hope this explanation clarifies things a little.

Bill and Deb Haegele and Betsy and Oliver (The Fourwheeling Puppies)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 18:39:42 -0700
From: Adam McLaughlin jps.net>
Subject: Re: Body Lifts HELP

I agree with Joe'sa advice. My suggestion is to know where you want to be when
all is done. You can be the kind of person that I am, and never be satisfied, no
matter what you do, or you could plan what you want to have done. I installed a
body lift on top of my 3" suspension lift because I wanted more transmission and
engine clearance for modifications.

I am using a 1988 Bronco 2, 3" Suspension, 2" Body. 31" Tires and 4.11 gears.

Adam

Joe wrote:

> Scotty,
>
> Some free advice, and that's the best kind....I have a 90 Bronco, which I
> bought with an existing 3" lift. One of the major problems, other than
> cosmetic, is the radiator location. When you lift the body, the motor and
> fan stay where they are and the radiator has to be lowered, which means you
> have to cut out the lower portion of the radiator support, which is a welded
> in deal. Looks like hell when you're done. Auto trans shift rod had to be
> lengthened also. One other problem I found in my case was that you lose some
> support under the seats, which created a creaking sound whenever I had
> someone in the passenger seat. My Bronco also had a towing package, which
> had to be relocated. When it's all said and done, you do a lot of work to
> save a few bucks over a legitimate lift kit, and to me the vehicle just
> plain looks ugly with all that frame hanging out. I removed the body lift
> kit as soon as I could afford to buy a complete lift kit. I bought a
> complete 6" Pro Comp lift kit for $799.00 from 4 Wheel Parts Unlimited
> through one of their magazine ads. Came complete with dual shocks and
> stainless lines. Did the work myself, but it took about two weeks with a
> cutting torch and all the right tools to get all the factory bolts out. Best
> bet if you don't have a lot of tools and time is to have it installed by the
> shop.
>
> P.S. I'm running 35" tires now with 4.11 gears, mileage is horrible, ride is
> rough, but it looks good.
>
> Joe, 90 XLT, 351, E40D, shift kit.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: SBJ wsu.edu>
> To: moab.off-road.com>; 2bigbroncos.org>;
> ford-trucks.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 11:10 PM
> Subject: [offroad-list] Body Lifts HELP
>
> > Okay, I don't want to clutter the list up with these, so please email me
> > off list with any answers. I know this has been asked, but I really need
> > to know.
> >
> > When I put a body lift on my Bronco most likely a 3" WHAT all will need
> to
> > be extended and or bent???
> > I know about looking at the gas filler, the NP208 shifter, my auto tranny
> > cable, and ebrake....
> >
> > Will there be enough extra for my brake lines, wiring and such? And will
> i
> > have to weld in an extension for my auto tranny or can i let out some
> cable
> > from the column, same for the ebrake?
> > People have said before to check for these.... but i'd really like some
> > concrete answers from anyone who has done a body lift, or has one.
> >
> > I don't want to get half way done, and find that there is something that
> > i'm not equipped to do when the Bronco is my only transportation. Sorry
> > for bringing this all up again, when i do it, i'm going to put up a page,
> > so we can just refer people to it. Unless all Broncos aren't necessarily
> > created equal? I'd hope so from 80-86 at least.
> >
> > TIA guys,
> > scotty
> > -
> > '86 XLT, 351W, C-6, NP 208, 9" (lsd), 3.50 gears ....
> > polarwsu.edu
> > www.wsu.edu/~polar
> > http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.off-road.com/ford/bigbroncos/
> > http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.superford.org/cgi-bin/sf.cgi?uid=default&vr2=1&ID=713
> >
> > ==========================================================
> > To unsubscribe, send email to: listarford-trucks.com with
> > the words "unsubscribe offroad-list" in the subject of the
> > message.
> >
> >
>
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listarford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe offroad-list" in the subject of the
> message.



------------------------------

End of offroad-list Digest V2000 #70
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