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From: owner-97up-list-digest ford-trucks.com (97up-list-digest)
To: 97up-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Subject: 97up-list-digest V3 #14
Reply-To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Sender: owner-97up-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Errors-To: owner-97up-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Precedence: bulk


97up-list-digest Sunday, January 16 2000 Volume 03 : Number 014



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
To unsubscribe, send email to:
majordomo ford-trucks.com
with the words "unsubscribe 97up-list-digest" in the body of the
message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

FTE 97up - Re: My opinion and rant!
Re: My opinion and rant! RE: FTE 97up - Everyone has an opinion don'tthey!
RE: My opinion and rant! RE: FTE 97up - Everyone has an opinion don't they!
FTE 97up - ADMIN: NO MORE WARNINGS!
RE: FTE 97up - Apology: Flames, Rants, Opinions
Re: FTE 97up - 30,000 mile tune-up
Re: My opinion and rant! RE: FTE 97up - Everyone has an opinion don't they!
FTE 97up - 97up F150 Door Cracks...AND other subjects....
[none]
FTE 97up - cold fronts
Re: FTE 97up - cold fronts
Re: FTE 97up - ADMIN: NO MORE WARNINGS!
Re: FTE 97up - Excursion towing mileage
FTE 97up - Constitutional Guarantees are for the List Owner, Not You
Re: FTE 97up - Constitutional Guarantees are for the List Owner, Not You

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 09:58:16 EST
From: BFunk33 aol.com
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: My opinion and rant!

If you are indeed a LEO, as you claim, it's no wonder you won't say where.
You know very well you would be censured for your posts here, as they are in
direct conflict with the standards of law enforcement departments everywhere.
Personally, I doubt that anyone who will drive over 100 MPH at night is smart
enough to be a LEO.
If, in fact, you have the experience and training that you claim to have (and
it's doubtful), then you know how dangerous such driving is: you literally
can't see where you are going! At over 150 feet per second, you are
overdriving your headlights to the extent that you will scrub off less than
10% of your speed before you hit somehting.
If that's your idea of "more morals and values" than us, well, what can I
say. Maybe Darwin's Law will help us out, here.
Bill

ORIGINAL POST:

<< From: John Jensen - Ericsson ericsson.com>
Subject: Re: My opinion and rant! RE: FTE 97up - Everyone has an opinion
don't they!

...
No more assumptions. I am 32 years old, Have been trained in the California
Highway Patrol Tactical Course and the Texas State Trooper Action Course. I
wasn't doing 120, 130 or such. It was 105 or so (claimed the GPS). It was
3:30 in the am and about one driver in 8 miles on the road. I AM a Law
Enforcement Officer (not telling any of you yahoos where). And I do have
more morals and values that have you cursing, non church going fools. >>
==========================================================
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 10:31:13 -0500
From: Jean Marc Chartier sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: My opinion and rant! RE: FTE 97up - Everyone has an opinion don'tthey!

John Jensen - Ericsson wrote:
>
> Hmmmm... so many assumptions here.
>
> - Drivers Age
> - Drivers training validity
> - Speed of vehicle
> - Drivers employment
> - Drivers values
> - Drivers morals
> ....etc....
>
> No more assumptions. I am 32 years old, Have been trained in the California
> Highway Patrol Tactical Course and the Texas State Trooper Action Course. I
> wasn't doing 120, 130 or such. It was 105 or so (claimed the GPS). It was
> 3:30 in the am and about one driver in 8 miles on the road. I AM a Law
> Enforcement Officer (not telling any of you yahoos where). And I do have
> more morals and values that have you cursing, non church going fools.
>
> SO FLAME AWAY! I know you will. You can't resist.
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html



So if I rob a bank and leave some of the money in the
vault I get off? I like to speed also. I have never tried
to beat the ticket in court. I do not play those games. If
I get caught I pay. Simple as that. Let me ask you this.
If you were stopping me for going 105 in a 55 what would you
do?

Kindest regards

Jean Marc Chartier
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 09:43:35 -0600
From: "pennhead" bscn.com>
Subject: RE: My opinion and rant! RE: FTE 97up - Everyone has an opinion don't they!

Uh... no.

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-97up-listford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-97up-listford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of John Jensen -
Ericsson
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 11:38 AM
To: 97up-listford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: My opinion and rant! RE: FTE 97up - Everyone has an opinion
don't they!



Hmmmm... so many assumptions here.

- - Drivers Age
- - Drivers training validity
- - Speed of vehicle
- - Drivers employment
- - Drivers values
- - Drivers morals
....etc....

No more assumptions. I am 32 years old, Have been trained in the California
Highway Patrol Tactical Course and the Texas State Trooper Action Course. I
wasn't doing 120, 130 or such. It was 105 or so (claimed the GPS). It was
3:30 in the am and about one driver in 8 miles on the road. I AM a Law
Enforcement Officer (not telling any of you yahoos where). And I do have
more morals and values that have you cursing, non church going fools.

SO FLAME AWAY! I know you will. You can't resist.
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 10:56:58 -0500
From: Ken Payne ford-trucks.com>
Subject: FTE 97up - ADMIN: NO MORE WARNINGS!

Okay, I've sent out more than one warning about this
speeding flame war. I'll make it very clear:

No more baited apologies.
No more name calling.
No more getting the last word in.
No more responding to obvious trolls pushing your buttons.

This childish, flame war has gone on for a week and has
resulted in name calling and questioning of people's
morality. First, I send out a warning to calm down and get
back on topic. Ignored. Then I send a post stating that
flamers would be removed. Ignored by some, not ignored by
others. If you wish to be removed from our lists, there
are more efficient ways, such as the unsubscribe form on
the web site.

Sorry to all the folks on the sidelines who have had to
endure this. I assure you that the list is usually far
more productive!

Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts


== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 09:55:56 -0600
From: "pennhead" bscn.com>
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Apology: Flames, Rants, Opinions

Apology accepted.

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-97up-listford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-97up-listford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Hollowood
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 10:04 PM
To: 97up-listford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 97up - Apology: Flames, Rants, Opinoins


I apologize to the List for causing all the self
righteous zealots to crawl out from under their
rocks!
'nuff said.....


== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 11:44:49 -0500
From: Jean Marc Chartier sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 30,000 mile tune-up

Hunter wrote:
>
> Yeap,
> He was trying to tell me that "it needs time to replicate or calibrate" I forgot which
> one he used. I'm taking it next Wed. and they are going to have it for the whole day.
> If you want I could post the outcome from the fix.
>
> Hunter.
>


Hunter,

He is probably going to disconnect the battery. Every time
you do this it takes a while for the PCM to "learn" your
driving habits. Just drive it the way you always do and you
will be fine.

Regards

Jean Marc Chartier
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 13:47:52 -0500
From: "Mitchell" maine.rr.com>
Subject: Re: My opinion and rant! RE: FTE 97up - Everyone has an opinion don't they!

There's a black eye for law enforcement.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: John Jensen - Ericsson ericsson.com>
To: <97up-listford-trucks.com>
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: My opinion and rant! RE: FTE 97up - Everyone has an opinion
don't they!


>
> Hmmmm... so many assumptions here.
>
> - Drivers Age
> - Drivers training validity
> - Speed of vehicle
> - Drivers employment
> - Drivers values
> - Drivers morals
> ....etc....
>
> No more assumptions. I am 32 years old, Have been trained in the
California
> Highway Patrol Tactical Course and the Texas State Trooper Action Course.
I
> wasn't doing 120, 130 or such. It was 105 or so (claimed the GPS). It was
> 3:30 in the am and about one driver in 8 miles on the road. I AM a Law
> Enforcement Officer (not telling any of you yahoos where). And I do have
> more morals and values that have you cursing, non church going fools.
>
> SO FLAME AWAY! I know you will. You can't resist.
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 13:32:47 -0700
From: Joe Kolisek worldnet.att.net>
Subject: FTE 97up - 97up F150 Door Cracks...AND other subjects....

I've got a '97 F250LD SC XLT, with the 5.4L and 4 speed auto, 3.73 rear. Had the door cracks
on BOTH doors. Thanks to some info I got on www.f150online.com, including the SSM numbers
(Special Service Message) that applied, went to my local Ford dealer "armed for bear".
Initially, they played the ignorance game, but the body shop manager pulled up the SSM's that
applied, and wound up ordering new doors for me. I made it a point of telling him that I
wouldn't accept a fix (welding)! They came in about 3 weeks, made an appointment, and had
the truck back in about a week. They did an excellent job on the paint match. Even gave me
a loaner for the entire period. So, it appears that it depends on the dealership you deal
with. Can't say anything but nice things about mine, Bell Ford, in Phoenix, AZ!!!! As an
aside, I've made it a point to check F150/F250 doors whenever I see one. It doesn't seem to
be that prevalent here in Phoenix......it's making me think that besides being a design
problem, it may be a quality control issue with however makes the door skins. I've also
noticed that I don't seem to be getting the same amount of "flex" when I open or close the
windows.....power windows......after the door skin replacement. Maybe it's also an
installation problem with the window mechanisms??????

Now I'm going in tomorrow with the 5.4L piston slap problem. The service manager said
they're going to try to "de-carb" the engine, and if that doesn't work, will replace the
engine. Can anyone give me some more details on this problem???? I'm reluctant to have the
engine replaced.....I'm getting decent gas mileage, and seem to have good power!!! Only have
some noise when I start up cold in the morning.

And one more subject........towing gas mileage......I tow a 5000lb. trailer with the
truck......and do not drive conservatively (60+mph.....up to 75 on the interstates). I've
gotten anywhere between 8-9.5 mpg towing, mostly flats with some small hill climbs. Overall,
I get between 14-16mpg around town, with some freeway driving. Haven't had it on any long
trips on just highways (got the truck in Aug, '99).

Sorry about the multiple subjects.....I get the list in DIGEST form.

> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 13:10:11 -0800
> From: "dallanmiller" email.msn.com>
> Subject: FTE 97up - 97up F150 Door Cracks...
>
> All,
> After reading the numerous e-mails about the Famous F150 door cracks,
> and seeing the pix, I am VERY disappointed that Ford is not taking a better
> approach than just welding up the cracks. This is a design flaw that Ford
> should make good on whether the truck is in warranty or not. It is a known
> defect, and we all ( as Ford F150 owners) need to band together and let Ford
> know how we feel. I am a Ford Motor Company die hard, NOT an employee of
> Ford, and currently own a 1999 Ford XCab XLT, -WITH POWER WINDOWS!!!. I have
> owned this truck for seven months now, and haven't seen a crack yet, and am
> concerned that this is an inevitable flaw yet to rear it's ugly face. I have
> been a Ford owner most of my life, I am 43 years old, and that should say
> something about my likes if Ford products.
> I contacted MY dealership yesterday, January 13, 2000, to check into
> this crack problem. The service manager at Nichols Ford in Fort Worth Texas
> denied ever having any knowledge of this problem (of course), and referred
> me to the Body shop manager of the dealership. He denied the same (again, of
> course).
> Perhaps this hasn't happened in Texas yet? I sincerely hope it doesn't.
> I usually keep a vehicle for no less than ten years, my last truck was an
> '89 Ford F150 XCab XLT- Lariat, and I still kinda miss it. At least with
> it's known quirks, the doors didn't crack, but it didn't have power windows
> either.
> I am proud of my new 1999 F150, but if the doors crack, I AM GONNA RAISE
> SOME HELL WITH FORD!!!!!
> David A.
> Miller

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 12:42:21 PST
From: "Jeff Skarphol" hotmail.com>
Subject: [none]

I was wondering if i should be putting a cold-weather/winter front on my
truck, the kind that goes over the grille. A lot of vehicles have them on
up here, i'm close to the canadian/US border, where we can have -30 wind
chills for the winter months. What advantages do they have? Are they
necessary, are they better all around for the engine? why would i need one,
or don't they make that big of a difference so i don't. Let me know what
you guys think, or have read. Thanks
Jeff
black '99 F-150 XLT SC 4 door short box, 5.4, remote keyless entry, CD
w/premium sound, tubular cab steps, praire tan interior, Access roll-up
cover, wondering if i should be covering up that awesome looking grille....
______________________________________________________

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 12:02:14 -0600
From: Perry Klein prudhoe-bay.dowell.slb.com>
Subject: FTE 97up - cold fronts

I don't know how cold it gets where you are but they do help marginally in
- -35 to -45 ambient. They don't seem to make a difference sitting at
idle. We have to set our diesels on high idle (1300 rpm or more ) to keep
them warm while sitting. They seem to help a little going down the road
but once you get below -35 to -40 ambient we generally start running around
with it out of over drive or in 2 nd gear to keep the rpm's up, that is
just to keep the cab warm. The plastic inserts are kind of nice because
they keep the bugs and crap out of your radiator during the
summer. Surprisingly they don't seem to make the truck over heat in the
summer so that should shed some light on how well they work during the
winter as well.

I guess in my overall opinion they help a little but probably are not worth
the money.

pk

>I was wondering if i should be putting a cold-weather/winter front on my
>truck, the kind that goes over the grille. A lot of vehicles have them
>on up here, i'm close to the canadian/US border, where we can have -30
>wind chills for the winter months. What advantages do they have? Are they
>necessary, are they better all around for the engine? why would i need
>one, or don't they make that big of a difference so i don't. Let me know
>what you guys think, or have read. Thanks


== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 17:27:10 -0500
From: "Steve J. Hodson" mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - cold fronts

This may sound drastic but.... In extremely low temperatures where the
engine loses so much heat what do you think about by-passing the radiator?
You could buy large diameter valves (butterfly or gate type) and a cross
over line so that coolant flow bypass the radiator and returns to the block.
The heater core would then serve as the radiator and your engines would run
at closer to normal temperature. This would prolong engine life as well as
making the drivers warmer.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Perry Klein prudhoe-bay.dowell.slb.com>
To: 97up-listford-trucks.com <97up-listford-trucks.com>
Date: Saturday, January 15, 2000 3:59 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - cold fronts


>I don't know how cold it gets where you are but they do help marginally in
>-35 to -45 ambient. They don't seem to make a difference sitting at
>idle. We have to set our diesels on high idle (1300 rpm or more ) to keep
>them warm while sitting. They seem to help a little going down the road
>but once you get below -35 to -40 ambient we generally start running around
>with it out of over drive or in 2 nd gear to keep the rpm's up, that is
>just to keep the cab warm. The plastic inserts are kind of nice because
>they keep the bugs and crap out of your radiator during the
>summer. Surprisingly they don't seem to make the truck over heat in the
>summer so that should shed some light on how well they work during the
>winter as well.
>
>I guess in my overall opinion they help a little but probably are not worth
>the money.
>
>pk
>
>>I was wondering if i should be putting a cold-weather/winter front on my
>>truck, the kind that goes over the grille. A lot of vehicles have them
>>on up here, i'm close to the canadian/US border, where we can have -30
>>wind chills for the winter months. What advantages do they have? Are they
>>necessary, are they better all around for the engine? why would i need
>>one, or don't they make that big of a difference so i don't. Let me know
>>what you guys think, or have read. Thanks
>
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 22:54:03 EST
From: TRITON46Laol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - ADMIN: NO MORE WARNINGS!

let's just go to a communist society where we get arrested and beaten for
speaking our opinions about certain subjects and opinions.

i understand removing people from the list for swearing on here. but i was
removed for voicing my opinion, i don't much appreciate it or much less
respect a person who removes me from the list because he doesn't like or
agree with my opinion.
freedom of expression and speech is in our bill of rights, no ne has the
right to remove someone from this list for expressing them.

name calling and disagreements are facts of life that have been introduced
into our impatient, "i'm better than you" society. these are things we
have to live with. i agree people shouldn't swear on here, but to attempt
to silence someone for voicing their opinion is wrong. especially when it
comes to a person like myself.

always remember, the best leaders in history have been ones who didn't abuse
their power or try and silence people's voices.

Bill
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 23:01:34 EST
From: ARAFTCOaol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Excursion towing mileage

Need to compare apples to apples. A truck with a 4.10 rear end is going to
get less mileage than one with 3.73.
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 00:04:10 -0500
From: "Keith Veren" worldnet.att.net>
Subject: FTE 97up - Constitutional Guarantees are for the List Owner, Not You

The Constitution guaranteed the right to redress the government for
grievances (political speech and debate). But the Constitution also
guaranteed that people would be secure in their effects, papers, homes, etc.
This is the home of the list owner. Your may be invited in or asked to
leave as the owner wishes. That is what the Constitution guarantees.


Keith


- ----- Original Message -----
From: aol.com>
To: <97up-listford-trucks.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2000 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - ADMIN: NO MORE WARNINGS!


> let's just go to a communist society where we get arrested and beaten for
> speaking our opinions about certain subjects and opinions.
>
> i understand removing people from the list for swearing on here. but i
was
> removed for voicing my opinion, i don't much appreciate it or much less
> respect a person who removes me from the list because he doesn't like or
> agree with my opinion.
> freedom of expression and speech is in our bill of rights, no ne has the
> right to remove someone from this list for expressing them.
>
> name calling and disagreements are facts of life that have been introduced
> into our impatient, "i'm better than you" society. these are things we
> have to live with. i agree people shouldn't swear on here, but to
attempt
> to silence someone for voicing their opinion is wrong. especially when it
> comes to a person like myself.
>
> always remember, the best leaders in history have been ones who didn't
abuse
> their power or try and silence people's voices.
>
> Bill
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 00:22:44 EST
From: TRITON46Laol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Constitutional Guarantees are for the List Owner, Not You

so what you're saying is that by letting people voice their opinions, you
feel insecure in your "home".

you say the owner may invite you in or ask you to leave. well removing
people from the list on your own without telling people before hand is not
asking people to leave.

constitutional rights are given to all citizens of the u.s.
i have been a citizen for 22/1/2 yrs. and an american soldier for almost 4
yrs. i bring up the soldier part because this shows i am willing to give
up my life to help others preserve our rights.

i think that being able to freely voice my opinion is one of the "benefits"
of protecting the flag i am willing to die for.
i don't feel that being removed from this list for voicing my opinion is a
good thing. i believe it's an act of cowardess.
after all, my opinion was voiced, no vulgar language was present in my post.
if there were swear words in my post, i could see being removed, but removed
for an opinion? come on.

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

End of 97up-list-digest V3 #14
******************************

+------ Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans ------+
| Send posts to 97up-listford-trucks.com, |
| List removal information is on the web site. |
+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+