------------------------------

Content-Type: text/plain

fordtrucks-digest Digest Volume 97 : Issue 141

Today's Topics:

RE: clutch? on a '63 [DC Beatty
RE: clutch? on a '63 [DC Beatty
Re: mileage/electronic ignition how [sdelanty sonic.net ]
Re: Bodt Seam Filler. [petunia indy.net ]
Re: mileage/electronic ignition how [Ken Payne ]
Re: Rising Temperature... [sdelanty sonic.net ]
Re: mileage/electronic ignition how ["Jim" ]
Rising Temp 2 [gusinks ruraltel.net (Clark Gustafs]
Re: Rising Temp 2 ["Tim and Jolee Hann"
Re: Rising Temperature... ["George Shepherd"
Re: Rising Temp 2 ["Jim" ]

Administrivia:

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------------------------------

Date: 22 Jun 97 22:22:58 EDT
From: DC Beatty
To: "'INTERNET:fordtrucks lofcom.com'"
Subject: RE: clutch? on a '63
Message-ID:

Good advice Ken.

If you have a shop do it, call around and get a price for a pressure plate,
throwout bearing, pilot bearing, and clutch disk. I'd say as a rough guess add
about $150-200 to this for labor. If the shop is more expensive than that they
are probably sticking it to you somewhere. No offense to anyone here, but I have
seen some very unscrupulous tranny shops.

Good luck.

DC Beatty
1967 F-100 352
1974 Maverick 302

----------
Ken Payne wrote...

From: INTERNET:fordtrucks lofcom.com
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 1997 9:27 AM
To: INTERNET:fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: clutch? on a '63
>>> Don't let a shop fool you into rebuilding the tranny, many will try this.
If the truck drives fine but slips it only needs a new clutch.

-Ken
1967 Ford F100, 390FE V8
List Maintainer, send comments or suggestions to: kpayne mindspring.com
Visit our web site (subscribe/unsubscribe forms are there):
http://www.ford-trucks.com




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------------------------------

Date: 22 Jun 97 22:22:54 EDT
From: DC Beatty
To: "'INTERNET:fordtrucks lofcom.com'"
Subject: RE: clutch? on a '63
Message-ID:

Sounds like clutch to me. Can you smell it burning? It smells funny like when
brakes burn.

If you put on the parking brake, put it in gear, and let out the clutch and the
truck does not stall right away that's the problem for sure.

You may want to check the adjustment. I think, if it is a cable, the pedal is
supposed to have 1/2" to 1" of play. Others on the list may be able to confirm
or correct this.

DC Beatty
1967 F-100 352
1974 Maverick 302

----------
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Sent: Sunday, June 22, 1997 8:44 AM
To: INTERNET:fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: clutch? on a '63

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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 09:43:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jesus Cardoso
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: clutch? on a '63
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Howdy Everyone,

It has been a while since I posted on the list, up to now my truck
was running okay. The trouble that I am experiencing with my '63
(F100 lwb flareside, 292 Y-block, 3 speed on the column) is that is the
past week or so it has become harder to shift. I am pretty sure that it
is the clutch but I would like some opinions on what else it could
possibly be. The truck has been slipping for about four months now,
basicly when I shift into gear and step on the gas hard the engine revs up
and the truck moves slowly, but when I step of the gas and give it time to
catch up with the engine everything is fine. Basicly I have no take off
power in any gear or when ever I step on the gas hard it does not respond.
Thanks in advance for everyones help.


:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Jesus Cardoso, a.k.a. Chuy
Graduate Research Assistant (Power System Automation Lab)
Dept. of Electrical Engineering, Texas A&M University
College Station, TX 77843-3128
w: 409-845-4623, h: 409-775-0737
Mailing Address: P.O. Box 2214, College Station, TX 77841-2214
e-mail: cardoso tamu.edu
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ee.tamu.edu/~cardoso

:::::::::::::::"Todos en el mundo sonreimos en la misma lengua.":::::::::::::::


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 19:30:56 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com
Subject: Re: mileage/electronic ignition how 2
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Ahhhh, finally gettin my fordtrucks fix...

My ISP quit doing dial up service and I've had to be without email for a
week and a half until I could find time to setup with another ISP.
Hope I didn't miss anything really good.

Hmm, my first fordtrucks digest in 10 days appears to have some stuff
directed in my direction...

>Steve,


>Can I attach the 'red' wire to the coil ignition wire?
>Do I need to worry about the ballist resistor?
>
>I'm planning to remove the existing distributor and coil.
>Use the distributor, coil, and spark box I pulled from
>a 302.

>Thanks for any help,
>rick

Well, the red wire should go to a ign switched source without a resistor.
(or upstream of the resistor) If Your resistor is in the engine compartment
then just hook the red wire up ahead of the resistor.
If the resistor is under the dash, then You need to drill a hole and run a
wire, or find another ign switched hot.
In my '71 F100, I picked mine up off the electric choke wire. (-:

Jim replies:

>Sorry, not Steve!
> I hooked mine to the two wires going to the starter relay,

I'm not sure where You are connecting the red wire. What terminal on the
starter relay is hot only with ign on?

If You connect red to a unswitched +12, then how do You shut it off? Or do
You just kill the coil + wire and leave the module powered up and drawing
current all the time?

Or do You have an early ('75) module with 7 wires and just switch the blu
wire from the coil side of the resistor and leave the red hot always?

The '77 and later duraspark system in trucks doesn't appear to use a resistor.
If You have a '77 or later setup, just use the appropriate coil, get rid of
the resistor and use the coil+ wire to switch the red wire.

Happy Motoring,


Steve Delanty (sdelanty sonoma.net)

1971 F100, FE390, T-18 4-speed shortbox.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 21:52:01 +0000
From: petunia indy.net
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Bodt Seam Filler.
Message-Id:
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hey Keith,

> Does anyone know what compound Ford used in some of the body seams on my Truck?
> One example of the seams I am talking about is the seam between the sheet
> metal on the outside of the box and the sheet metal for the corner of the box.
> The corner of the box that holds the taillight.

Yes, check with the Eastwood Company. They sell a product made by (I
think) 3M that is specific for this purpose. I haven't used
it yet, but I'll need a bunch of the stuff myself! They've got a
website, but if yor need their phone number, I can get it for you.

Oh, I've had a couple of guys ask me about where I got my service
manual for my '61..... I didn't forget to post the company and phone
number, 'cuz I'm still trying to find the info... Hopefully by
tomorrow!

Later,
Eric
petunia indy.net
erickson vitro.bloomington.in.us
==================================
"Happy Days"
1961 F100 Unibody Pick'em Up Truck
w/'59 292 ci Y-Block
==================================

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:20:49 -0400
From: Ken Payne
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: mileage/electronic ignition how 2
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 07:30 PM 6/22/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Ahhhh, finally gettin my fordtrucks fix...
>
>My ISP quit doing dial up service and I've had to be without email for a
>week and a half until I could find time to setup with another ISP.
>Hope I didn't miss anything really good.
>
>Hmm, my first fordtrucks digest in 10 days appears to have some stuff
>directed in my direction...
>
>>Steve,
>

Steve, I'll make it a point to put the archives up to this point on the
web site this week so you can get whatever you missed.

-Ken
1967 Ford F100, 390FE V8
List Maintainer, send comments or suggestions to: kpayne mindspring.com
Visit our web site (subscribe/unsubscribe forms are there):
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 21:36:40 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Rising Temperature...
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>
>>Dear Chris,
>>I hate to continue your argument thread, you probably think you've beat it
>>to death. You argument with regard to the boundry layer and speed of the
>>fluid is wrong.

George,

Ackk! You mean that the tiny bit of physics I've been conscious enough to
absorb is a lie? Stupid books!!....

What I learned sounds similar to what Chris posted, cooling increases with
fluid velocity. Increasing the mass flow of coolant across a given amount
of radiator surface increases the potential for heat transfer, up to the
point where turbulance or flow distribution becomes a problem.

The "boundary layer" is a real problem in oil cooling radiators, where the
cooled oil layer against the rad surface becomes more viscous and doesn't
flow as readily. The hot oil flows inside a "tube" of cooler oil which
insulates it from the rad exchange surface....
Higher fluid velocities make the cooler oil layer thinner and increase heat
ransfer.

The btu/hour charts that come with many industrial hydraulic oil coolers
always show increased btu capacity with increased gpm flow up to the point
where pressure drop across the radiator reaches it's limit.

With less viscous fluids such as water the boundary layer effect is less, but
maybe still significant. Glycol based coolants make it worse.

Another concern with H20 coolants is localized boiling. Hot spots in the
heads flash the coolant into a thin layer of steam, forming an insulating
boudary between the coolant and the coolee.. The water just rides across a
thin layer of steam. Increasing the flow velocity helps break up these steam
pockets and keep coolant in contact with the surface to be cooled. Chemicals
that decrease the surface tension of water (redline water wetter, etc.) also
help. Glycol based coolants are worse than plain water.

>>Heat transfers best at the optimim speed of the
>>fluid(absent super speeds such as you mentioned where friction plays a
>>role) The optimum speed of the fluid can be studied. Not to fast, not to
>>slow between the surface of the 2 heat exchangers and the fluid, the
>>radiator being the more efficient of the 2 heat exchangers in a
>>motor-radiator set-up. Optimum speed for the motor may not be optimum speed
>>for the radiator.

I dunno the math, but I'll bet that "optimum" occurs at flow velocities well
in excess of what our puny little automotive pump impellers can manage.

>>There are a lot of heat exchange papers that have been
>>published

I'd be curious enough to learn some more about the subject. Can You please
give me the titles and authors of any good ones You'd recommend?


Chris replies to George,


>I would be happy to discuss this further with you, but I suggest these
>discussions take place via private e-mail as this issue is really a bit
>off-topic for this list.

The physics may not be specific to Fords, but it certainly applies to the
cooling systems (both water and oil) used in Fords.
It seems to me like a good topic for a list like this. Keeping Your truck
cool on a hot summer day is a good thing. I can handle a little physics if
there's something practical to be learned from it...

Err, just my $.02

Happy motoring,

Steve Delanty (sdelanty sonoma.net)

1971 F100, FE390, T-18 4-speed shortbox.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 22:07:17 -0700
From: "Jim"
To:
Subject: Re: mileage/electronic ignition how 2
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> I'm not sure where You are connecting the red wire. What
terminal on the
> starter relay is hot only with ign on?
>
> If You connect red to a unswitched +12, then how do You
shut it off? Or do
> You just kill the coil + wire and leave the module powered
up and drawing
> current all the time?
>
> Or do You have an early ('75) module with 7 wires and just
switch the blu
> wire from the coil side of the resistor and leave the red
hot always?
>
> The '77 and later duraspark system in trucks doesn't
appear to use a resistor.
> If You have a '77 or later setup, just use the appropriate
coil, get rid of
> the resistor and use the coil+ wire to switch the red
wire.
>
> Happy Motoring,
>
>
> Steve Delanty (sdelanty sonoma.net)
>
> 1971 F100, FE390, T-18 4-speed shortbox.


Hi Steve!
I have a '73 F100 and my electronic ignition is from a '77
Mercury. My starter relay has 4 wires, 1 from the battery
and 1 to the starter. The other 2 are the ones I used.
Red\blue 12v key to start is where I spliced the white wire
and brown 12v key on is where I spliced the red wire. There
is no resistor on my truck. The red\green wire running to
the coil acts as the resistor and was eliminated with the
electronic ignition. BTW the red\green wire comes off the
brown wire so I considered it to be before the resistor.

REF: Haynes Ford Pick-ups & Bronco 1973 thru 1979, fig 10
pg. 203

Well Bro, how's it look? Electricity and me do not get
along (We just don't understand each other)! I looked at the
wiring diagram a hundred times, used a test light and
multimeter to come up with this when I installed the
ignition. But I'm ignorant in electronics, no I take that
back, with all I've read and classes I've taken on
electronics, I can no longer claim ignorance, now it's
stupidity :)
Any information, instruction or correction will be greatly
appreciated. While on the subject of ignition, what the hell
does dielectric do and why is it so important that I put it
on every time I pull a plug wire?

Jim Strigas
jstrigas worldnet.att.net
'73 F100
'83 XJ900RK
'86 GL1200 Custom
'77 Buick Estate Wagon

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 00:16:30 -0500
From: gusinks ruraltel.net (Clark Gustafson)
To: "Ford Truck Mailing List"
Subject: Rising Temp 2
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I am beginning to be sorry I even wrote for assistance, I didn't mean for
you guys to get in a (pardon the wording) heated discussion over it. I
would however like to know what the symptoms of a lean running engine are.
I was also wondering if there is any chance that if I install a electric
fan that it may help. And is there any way a person can check the
performance of a water pump w/o teardown and removal of such. Well I am
still heating up (outside hump in "P" on TEMP) only after traveling a short
distance (25 mi) and have no clue. Again any HELP would be appreciated.
Thanks again, Griz.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 22:35:54 -0700
From: "Tim and Jolee Hann"
To:
Subject: Re: Rising Temp 2
Message-Id:
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BC7F5C.A55410C0"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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charset="iso-8859-1"
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What year trk and what engine? Did this just start? Is it pushing water =
out or is the gauge just reading high? If you are runnig lean you may =
incounter an over condition. Have you changed your Thermostat lately? =
Are you running 100% coolant? Whats your Timing set at? Sorry for all =
the questions but all these thing can cause an overheat condition. There =
are other conditions too, but these are the most common. Last question, =
what condition is your radiator in?=20
----
From: Clark Gustafson
To: Ford Truck Mailing List
Date: Sunday, June 22, 1997 10:17 PM
Subject: Rising Temp 2

I am beginning to be sorry I even wrote for assistance, I didn't mean =
for
you guys to get in a (pardon the wording) heated discussion over it. I
would however like to know what the symptoms of a lean running engine =
are.
I was also wondering if there is any chance that if I install a electric
fan that it may help. And is there any way a person can check the
performance of a water pump w/o teardown and removal of such. Well I am
still heating up (outside hump in "P" on TEMP) only after traveling a =
short
distance (25 mi) and have no clue. Again any HELP would be appreciated.
Thanks again, Griz.


____________________________________________________________________
Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
For help send mail with subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks-request lofcom.com
Comments and suggestions are welcome, use: kpayne mindspring.com



------=_NextPart_000_01BC7F5C.A55410C0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable





http-equiv=3DContent-Type>




What year trk and what engine? Did this just start? Is it pushing =
water out=20
or is the gauge just reading high? If you are runnig lean you may =
incounter an=20
over condition. Have you changed your Thermostat lately? Are you running =
100%=20
coolant? Whats your Timing set at? Sorry for all the questions but all =
these=20
thing can cause an overheat condition. There are other conditions too, =
but these=20
are the most common. Last question, what condition is your radiator in? =

----
From: Clark Gustafson <gusinks ruraltel.net>
To: Ford Truck Mailing List <FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com>
Date: Sunday, June 22, 1997 10:17 PM
Subject: Rising Temp 2

I am beginning to be sorry I even wrote for =
assistance,=20
I didn't mean for
you guys to get in a (pardon the wording) heated discussion over =
it.  I
would however like to know what the symptoms of a lean running engine =
are.
I was also wondering if there is any chance that if I install a =
electric
fan that it may help.  And is there any way a person can check =
the
performance of a water pump w/o teardown and removal of such.  Well =
I=20
am
still heating up (outside hump in "P" on TEMP) only after =
traveling a=20
short
distance (25 mi) and have no clue. Again any HELP would be =
appreciated.
Thanks again, Griz.


____________________________________________________________________
Message distributed via
href=3D"http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/">http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
For help send mail with subject "HELP" to:
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om
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------=_NextPart_000_01BC7F5C.A55410C0--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:16:47 -0500
From: "George Shepherd"
To:
Subject: Re: Rising Temperature...
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

----------
> From: sdelanty sonic.net
> To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com
> Subject: Re: Rising Temperature...
> Date: Sunday, June 22, 1997 11:36 PM
>
> >
> >>Dear Chris,
> >>I hate to continue your argument thread, you probably think you've beat
it
> >>to death. You argument with regard to the boundry layer and speed of
the
> >>fluid is wrong.
>
> George,
>
> Ackk! You mean that the tiny bit of physics I've been conscious enough
to
> absorb is a lie? Stupid books!!....
>
> What I learned sounds similar to what Chris posted, cooling increases
with
> fluid velocity. Increasing the mass flow of coolant across a given
amount
> of radiator surface increases the potential for heat transfer, up to the
> point where turbulance or flow distribution becomes a problem.

The above paragraph is basically all I said. That flow speed is a lot lower
than a lot of engineers think.
Please let me know which text books you are relying on and I'll let you
know if they reflect current technology.

>
> The "boundary layer" is a real problem in oil cooling radiators, where
the
> cooled oil layer against the rad surface becomes more viscous and doesn't
> flow as readily. The hot oil flows inside a "tube" of cooler oil which
> insulates it from the rad exchange surface....
> Higher fluid velocities make the cooler oil layer thinner and increase
heat
> ransfer.
>
> The btu/hour charts that come with many industrial hydraulic oil coolers
> always show increased btu capacity with increased gpm flow up to the
point
> where pressure drop across the radiator reaches it's limit.
>
> With less viscous fluids such as water the boundary layer effect is less,
but
> maybe still significant. Glycol based coolants make it worse.
>
> Another concern with H20 coolants is localized boiling. Hot spots in the
> heads flash the coolant into a thin layer of steam, forming an insulating
> boudary between the coolant and the coolee.. The water just rides across
a
> thin layer of steam. Increasing the flow velocity helps break up these
steam
> pockets and keep coolant in contact with the surface to be cooled.

So does keeping the unit full.

Chemicals
> that decrease the surface tension of water (redline water wetter, etc.)
also
> help. Glycol based coolants are worse than plain water.
>
> >>Heat transfers best at the optimim speed of the
> >>fluid(absent super speeds such as you mentioned where friction plays a
> >>role) The optimum speed of the fluid can be studied. Not to fast, not
to
> >>slow between the surface of the 2 heat exchangers and the fluid, the
> >>radiator being the more efficient of the 2 heat exchangers in a
> >>motor-radiator set-up. Optimum speed for the motor may not be optimum
speed
> >>for the radiator.
>
> I dunno the math, but I'll bet that "optimum" occurs at flow velocities
well
> in excess of what our puny little automotive pump impellers can manage.

NOt so.

>
> >>There are a lot of heat exchange papers that have been
> >>published
>
> I'd be curious enough to learn some more about the subject. Can You
please
> give me the titles and authors of any good ones You'd recommend?
>
>
> Chris replies to George,
>
>
> >I would be happy to discuss this further with you, but I suggest these
> >discussions take place via private e-mail as this issue is really a bit
> >off-topic for this list.
>
> The physics may not be specific to Fords, but it certainly applies to the
> cooling systems (both water and oil) used in Fords.
> It seems to me like a good topic for a list like this. Keeping Your truck
> cool on a hot summer day is a good thing. I can handle a little physics
if
> there's something practical to be learned from it...
>
> Err, just my $.02
>
> Happy motoring,
>
> Steve Delanty (sdelanty sonoma.net)
>
> 1971 F100, FE390, T-18 4-speed shortbox.
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
> For help send mail with subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks-request lofcom.com
> Comments and suggestions are welcome, use: kpayne mindspring.com
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:19:51 -0700
From: "Jim"
To:
Subject: Re: Rising Temp 2
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Clark!
> I am beginning to be sorry I even wrote for assistance, I
didn't mean for
> you guys to get in a (pardon the wording) heated
discussion over it.

Don't, we need to learn to be tolerant of others. If we
can't ask for assistance without heated discussion as a
result, then let it be for sport! Ask, sit back and enjoy
the flames!

Running lean can cause overheating but I don't think it's
your problem unless you've changed your jets. The screws on
the carb are for idle mixture. From what your saying my
guess is your radiator is clogged or your water pump is
shot. Pull your water pump and look to see if the impeller
(thanks for the name Steve). I used radiator flush (Don't
use it) that ate mine, it also ate the water outlet. With
your radiator out flush it out with water, then clean out
the fins of all the crap that builds up in there. and
reinstall using a new thermostat (I used a 180 degree).
Now my opinion on flow... Balance, you can slow down the
flow to the point it's cool in the radiator and boiling in
the engine, or so fast it doesn't have time to cool. As
mentioned before I don't believe the water pump can move
that much water, but what can happen is the engine can't
reach optimum operating temp. An engine is built to operate
properly once reaching a certain temp. Higher temp closer
tolerance tighter fit less bypass lower emissions, bunch of
crap I don't give a damn about! What's important is in the
morning the defroster isn't going to clear the windshield if
the coolant doesn't get hot enough! Now there's priorities
for you! Removing the thermostat to cure an overheating
problem will work only if it was bad! If you've removed it
and your still overheating, it wasn't the problem.
Other things that cause overheating, blown head gasket, if
you need to add water often water drips from the exhaust all
the time, looking in the radiator neck you see bubbles all
the time it's running (give it time to purge air pockets
when it's first started. So much crap built up in the water
jacket that coolant can't get to the rear (#4 & #8)
cylinders.
That's all I have, hope it helps!

Jim Strigas
jstrigas worldnet.att.net
'73 F100
'83 XJ900RK....


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