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Content-Type: text/plain

fordtrucks-digest Digest Volume 97 : Issue 140

Today's Topics:

Re: Rising Temperature... ["George Shepherd"
460 cu. in. [William Sabers
Re: '92 F150 fuel gauge [Ken Payne ]
Re: Bodt Seam Filler. [Ken Payne ]
RE: 460 cu. in. [Randy Collins ]
Re: '92 F150 fuel gauge [SueL53 aol.com ]
Re: Bodt Seam Filler. [SueL53 aol.com ]
clutch? on a '63 [Jesus Cardoso
Re: 1980 & newer list [Raym351 aol.com ]
Fiberglass for 52 [Flathead52 aol.com ]
Re: '92 F150 fuel gauge [Raym351 aol.com ]
Re: '92 F150 fuel gauge [Raym351 aol.com ]
Re: clutch? on a '63 [Ken Payne ]
Re: Rising Temperature... [Chris North ]
Re: Rising Temperature... ["jayvanv teleport.com"
unsubscribe [Pyro ]
Re: clutch? on a '63 ["George Shepherd"

Administrivia:

____________________________________________________________________
Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
For help send mail with subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks-digest-request lofcom.com
Comments and suggestions are welcome, use: kpayne mindspring.com
____________________________________________________________________


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 18:10:43 -0500
From: "George Shepherd"
To:
Subject: Re: Rising Temperature...
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear Chris,
I hate to continue your argument thread, you probably think you've beat it
to death. You argument with regard to the boundry layer and speed of the
fluid is wrong. Heat transfers best at the optimim speed of the
fluid(absent super speeds such as you mentioned where friction plays a
role) The optimum speed of the fluid can be studied. Not to fast, not to
slow between the surface of the 2 heat exchangers and the fluid, the
radiator being the more efficient of the 2 heat exchangers in a
motor-radiator set-up. Optimum speed for the motor may not be optimum speed
for the radiator. There are a lot of heat exchange papers that have been
published, I like you to give me some of the references that support your
version of the situation.
----------
> From: Chris North
> To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
> Subject: Re: Rising Temperature...
> Date: Saturday, June 21, 1997 12:56 PM
>
> >At 05:00 AM 6/20/97 -0500, you wrote:
> >>Hello,
> >>I have a 73 Ford F-100 Custom with a 302, automatic, I was wondering if
> >>there was a problem with the truck running hot or what? I have
> >>took out the thermostat, replaced the Radiator with a new one and still
it
>
>
>
> >Have you considered that the engine is running too lean? Also, I've
heard
> >that taking out the thermostat (as opposed to putting a 160 in) can
> >actually make they engine hotter since the water flow is so fast it
doesn't
> >get a chance to cool in the radiator. I don't know for sure as the only
> >heating problems I've had were cured by replacing the thermostats.
>
> I don't want to step on any toes, but I'm sorry, the myth "[removing the
> thermostat] can actually make they engine hotter since the water flow is
so
> fast it doesn't get a chance to cool in the radiator" is a hot button for
> me. This is bunk. The radiator is a liquid-gas (with air being the gas)
> heat excahnger. The faster either fluid (yes, air is a fluid) flows, the
> more efficient the heat excanger becomes. This is because in all fluid
> flow, there is a 'boundary layer' of fluid against the walls (of the
> radiator) that impedes heat flow. The faster the flow, the thinner the
> 'boundary layer'; the thinner the 'boundary layer', the better the heat
> transfer.
>
> Have you ever heard anyone say that if the air flow through the radiator
is
> too fast that you will overheat because the air doesn't have a chance to
> heat up? (if you get the air going around Mach 3, it will heat things
up
> due to friction, but that is another story). The truth is that (with
> faster flow) each drop of water will loose less heat while it is in the
> radiator, but (with faster flow) you have more drops of water going
> through, so it balances out. Since you have more efficient heat
transfer,
> the balance actually swings towards the cool side.
>
> That said, I have had this argument with enough people that have had
> personal experience with thermostat removal causing overheating that I
> concede that removing the thermostat _can_ make *some engines* overheat,
> but not for the 'doesn't get a chance to cool' reason.
>
> In particular, flathead Fords are known for cavitation at the water pump.
> (Cavitation is a pheonomena where the water vaporizes due to a high
vacuum
> at the intake side of the pump. Vaporized water doesn't pump well.) A
> thermostat can increase the pressure, preventing caviation.
>
> Also, the high vacuum on the intake side of the water pump can cause the
> lower radiator hose to colapse (if it doesn't have a spring inside). A
> colapsed hose will not allow much flow. Again, a thermostat reduces the
> vacuum.
>
> Finally, I have heard that at higher flow rates, the path the coolant
takes
> through the engine changes, allowing some areas to not receive adequate
> flow. I am not sure that I believe this because I can't visualize how
just
> increasing the flow could change the path the coolant takes. I will
> concede that this might be possible, however, since the water jackets on
> engines are typically not designed for efficient flow characteristics.
>
> One other thing to remember, for those who are performance minded, is
that
> the water pump will pump more water without a thermostat. Water is heavy
> (has a lot of mass) and pumping it consumes power. With a thermostat,
the
> water pump will pump less water and therefore consume less power,
providing
> more power to the wheels.
>
> >What's the coolant/water ratio? Too much coolant reduces the thermal
> >transfer efficiency of the water. Also, (opening a can of worms here)
I've
> >used the Red Line stuff that is supposed to make the water transfer heat
> >better. I won't give you a testimonial saying "my engine ran cooler"
because
> >that's the function of the thermostat while driving down the highway.
> >However,
> >my engine does run slightly cooler when the truck is stuck in stop and
go
> >traffic. I don't know if Red Line would make enough of a difference.
How
> >does everyone else feel about the stuff?
>
> I was skeptical of this stuff when I first heard of it and I have not
used
> it, so I have no first hand experience, but I have heard enough about it
to
> make me believe that it does some good. I don't know if the stuff
reduces
> the effect of oil contamination coating the iron block (reducing the heat
> flow), lowers the viscosity (reducing that 'boundary layer'), or what,
but
> I have not heard anyone say that it is bogus and I have heard alot of
> people say it helps.
>
> Finally, if you have a problem with the engine running hot, switching to
a
> 160 deg thermostat won't help, and here's why. If the coolant is 220
deg,
> either a 160 or a 180 will (should) be full open for some time.
Obviously,
> the cooling system cannot dissapate as much heat as the engine produces,
so
> the temp rises. No, if the engine is running hot, either you are
producing
> more heat (by running lean, as Ken mentioned) than the cooling system was
> designed for, or your cooling system is not functioning as efficient as
it
> should. For the latter, flush the system well to make sure it is clean,
> rod out (or recore) your radiator, or maybe try the Red Line Water
Wetter.
>
>
> Chris North | I always think I'm right although I know
that |
> Metallurgist | I must be wrong sometimes, I think.
|
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
> For help send mail with subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks-request lofcom.com
> Comments and suggestions are welcome, use: kpayne mindspring.com
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 18:46:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: William Sabers
To: Ford Trucks
Subject: 460 cu. in.
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Does anybody know a "good" dealer for a 460 Motor.... I have seen the
postings before, but never saved them, (silly person that I am) I am
looking for new $$$, or a good rebuild, hopefully w/ an RV Cam.

Wsabers
69 Mach I (for Sale)
78 Bronco (in need of a transplant)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 19:58:01 -0400
From: Ken Payne
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: '92 F150 fuel gauge
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11:53 AM 6/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
>My fuel gauge is not reading correctly. Sometimes It will read properly,
>other times I get no reading whatsoever even when tanks are full. It makes
>no difference even when I flip the switch from front to rear tanks. One
>suggestion I got was to change the fuel senders inside the tanks. I find it
>odd that both senders would let go the same time. I hate to drop the tanks,
>if this is not the problem.
>
>Has anyone else had this problem, and what did you do.
>
>Thanks.
>

I don't know why I posted that message about which year you had. I
wasn't paying attention to the subject field of the message. I don't
know if you're aware of this but we have 2 mailing lists:
1. 1979 and older trucks - this list: fordtrucks lofcom.com
2. 1980 and newer trucks - fordtrucks80up lofcom.com

Unfortunately AOL can't get its act together (nothing surprizing about
that) and update the information I sent them about this. The subscribe
instructions on AOL are out of date are will subscribe you to this
list. If you (or anyone else) needs to get moved over to the 1980 and
newer list, let me know and I'll switch you. You'll probably find the
topics are more interesting and relavent to your truck. Also, that
list has more traffic too (surpassed this list this week).

-Ken
1967 Ford F100, 390FE V8
List Maintainer, send comments or suggestions to: kpayne mindspring.com
Visit our web site (subscribe/unsubscribe forms are there):
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 20:07:22 -0400
From: Ken Payne
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Bodt Seam Filler.
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:18 PM 6/20/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Does anyone know what compound Ford used in some of the body seams on my Truck?
> One example of the seams I am talking about is the seam between the sheet
>metal on the outside of the box and the sheet metal for the corner of the box.
>The corner of the box that holds the taillight.
>
>Thanks
>
>>Keith Srb herbie netvalue.net
>>1986 Ford Bronco II, 2.9L (I HATE LITERS) V-6, Mitsubishi 5-Speed.
>1980 Harley XLH, Rebuilt from the Frame up! My Harley doesn't leak oil, it
>just marks my
> parking spot!
>>1966 Ford F100, 240 C.I. Straight Six, Warner T-18 4-Speed, Short Box.
>>My Blood runs "TRUE BLUE FORD!"
>

I don't know what Ford uses but short strand fiberglass filler works well
as it doesn't tend to crack like standard bondo cant.

-Ken
1967 Ford F100, 390FE V8
List Maintainer, send comments or suggestions to: kpayne mindspring.com
Visit our web site (subscribe/unsubscribe forms are there):
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 19:08:19 -0700
From: Randy Collins
To: "'fordtrucks lofcom.com'"
Subject: RE: 460 cu. in.
Message-ID:
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From: William Sabers [SMTP:wsabers sunflowr.usd.edu]

Does anybody know a "good" dealer for a 460 Motor.... I have seen the
postings before, but never saved them, (silly person that I am) I am
looking for new $$$, or a good rebuild, hopefully w/ an RV Cam.

Wsabers

William,

I have an almost new 460 sitting in my garage. It is a stock rebuild =
that has 3K miles on it. It is complete from pan to intake. It could =
use a good home. =20

Drop me a note if you are interested and I will fill you in on the =
details. =20

Randy Collins
Boise, Idaho
rcollins micron.net

1975 Ford Supercab Longbed Muscle Truck (mostly in pieces)
Soon to have the following Randy installed options:
F250 4WD 460 C-6


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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 08:05:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: SueL53 aol.com
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: '92 F150 fuel gauge
Message-ID:

this message went to me, just a person, because I was trying to subscribe, I
am getting all of their mail.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 08:06:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: SueL53 aol.com
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Bodt Seam Filler.
Message-ID:

sorry, I am only a peson, somehow their mail got to me

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 09:43:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jesus Cardoso
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: clutch? on a '63
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Howdy Everyone,

It has been a while since I posted on the list, up to now my truck
was running okay. The trouble that I am experiencing with my '63
(F100 lwb flareside, 292 Y-block, 3 speed on the column) is that is the
past week or so it has become harder to shift. I am pretty sure that it
is the clutch but I would like some opinions on what else it could
possibly be. The truck has been slipping for about four months now,
basicly when I shift into gear and step on the gas hard the engine revs up
and the truck moves slowly, but when I step of the gas and give it time to
catch up with the engine everything is fine. Basicly I have no take off
power in any gear or when ever I step on the gas hard it does not respond.
Thanks in advance for everyones help.


:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Jesus Cardoso, a.k.a. Chuy
Graduate Research Assistant (Power System Automation Lab)
Dept. of Electrical Engineering, Texas A&M University
College Station, TX 77843-3128
w: 409-845-4623, h: 409-775-0737
Mailing Address: P.O. Box 2214, College Station, TX 77841-2214
e-mail: cardoso tamu.edu
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ee.tamu.edu/~cardoso

:::::::::::::::"Todos en el mundo sonreimos en la misma lengua.":::::::::::::::

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 10:45:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Raym351 aol.com
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: 1980 & newer list
Message-ID:

Ken, thanks for the advice. If possible please move me to the 1980 and newer
ford truck list. I like old trucks, but I don't own one at the present time.
All your help will be well appreciated. Thank you very much.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 10:47:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Flathead52 aol.com
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Fiberglass for 52
Message-ID:

I just bought a bunch of fiberglass for my 52 f-1 from the Fairlane co. I
got all the fenders
a hood and the lower valance panel. I'm very happy with the quality of the
parts and would suggest them to anyone wanting fiberglass parts.Has anyone
ordered the lower cab corners for this truck from the obsleat ford parts co.



Tom

flathead52 aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 11:02:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Raym351 aol.com
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
cc: texan iamerica.net
Subject: Re: '92 F150 fuel gauge
Message-ID:

Thanks for the information. We'll give it a try. I'll let you know the end
result.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 11:09:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Raym351 aol.com
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
cc: wsabers sunflowr.usd.edu
Subject: Re: '92 F150 fuel gauge
Message-ID:

Thanks. I agree with your thoughts on the sending unit. Nice to know old
truck owners are also old car owners. I've got a '69 GT350 and a '69
Talladaga. One restored, the other in process.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 11:26:31 -0400
From: Ken Payne
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: clutch? on a '63
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 09:43 AM 6/22/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Howdy Everyone,
>
> It has been a while since I posted on the list, up to now my truck
>was running okay. The trouble that I am experiencing with my '63
>(F100 lwb flareside, 292 Y-block, 3 speed on the column) is that is the
>past week or so it has become harder to shift. I am pretty sure that it
>is the clutch but I would like some opinions on what else it could
>possibly be. The truck has been slipping for about four months now,
>basicly when I shift into gear and step on the gas hard the engine revs up
>and the truck moves slowly, but when I step of the gas and give it time to
>catch up with the engine everything is fine. Basicly I have no take off
>power in any gear or when ever I step on the gas hard it does not respond.
> Thanks in advance for everyones help.
>

To test for a bad clutch, put the truck in 3rd gear, give it minimal gas
and let the clutch out. It should stall or buck like a horse if the clutch
is good. Follow the clutch cable to nearly its end and you should see
an adjustment bolt. Try adjusting this. If you can't get enough adjustment
to fix the problem you'll need a clutch rebuild. Don't let a shop fool
you into rebuilding the tranny, many will try this. If the truck drives
fine but slips it only needs a new clutch.

-Ken
1967 Ford F100, 390FE V8
List Maintainer, send comments or suggestions to: kpayne mindspring.com
Visit our web site (subscribe/unsubscribe forms are there):
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 12:13:26 -0500 (CDT)
From: Chris North
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Cc: texan iamerica.net
Subject: Re: Rising Temperature...
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Dear Chris,
>I hate to continue your argument thread, you probably think you've beat it
>to death. You argument with regard to the boundry layer and speed of the
>fluid is wrong. Heat transfers best at the optimim speed of the
>fluid(absent super speeds such as you mentioned where friction plays a
>role) The optimum speed of the fluid can be studied. Not to fast, not to
>slow between the surface of the 2 heat exchangers and the fluid, the
>radiator being the more efficient of the 2 heat exchangers in a
>motor-radiator set-up. Optimum speed for the motor may not be optimum speed
>for the radiator. There are a lot of heat exchange papers that have been
>published, I like you to give me some of the references that support your
>version of the situation.
>----------
George,

I'm sorry, I am not a research scientist, cooling systems design engineer,
or even a process engineer. I do not know of any heat exchange papers that
would apply to this situation (although I would not be suprised to find
that there are many) and I really don't have the time or desire to research
this issue. My version of the situation results from material learned in
fluid dynamics and heat transfer courses, combined with practical
experience. My point in bringing up the boundary layer in the first place
was to illustrate that increased speed of the coolant through the radiator
is more likely to improve the efficiency of heat transfer rather than
reduce it. I really do not think I am wrong on this point (although I
reserve that right) and I find nothing in your post that supports your
calim that I am wrong.

I would be happy to discuss this further with you, but I suggest these
discussions take place via private e-mail as this issue is really a bit
off-topic for this list.

Ford Truck Content:
My 78 E250 Van (351M-C6) experienced a cooling problem last summer. At
highway speeds, it would do OK (the needle to about the 'R' in NORMAL) but
when I slowed down it would get hotter than 'L'. ;^)
I found the cuplrit to be a very worn fan/power steering belt. (Boy, I
*hate* working on Van engines--no room). I probably would have found the
problem earlier, but I had replaced the belt less than 15,000 miles earlier
(about a year and a half) and figured that it HAD to be something else.
Aparently, at highway speeds, there was enough air going through the
radiator to turn the fan (and water pump) but at low speeds, no fan, no
flow, overheat city.


Chris North | I always think I'm right although I know that |
Metallurgist | I must be wrong sometimes, I think. |

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 11:07:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: "jayvanv teleport.com"
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Rising Temperature...
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

On Sun, 22 Jun 1997, Chris North wrote:
> My 78 E250 Van (351M-C6) experienced a cooling problem last summer. At
> highway speeds, it would do OK (the needle to about the 'R' in NORMAL) bu=
t
> when I slowed down it would get hotter than 'L'. ;^)
> I found the cuplrit to be a very worn fan/power steering belt. (Boy, I

I should comment here, since When I first joined the fordtrucks list I had
a problem with cooling on my 76 390FE. I bought a thermostat to replace
the one in it, just as something to try. Well it didn't hit me until I
looked at the instructions to put the new one in and I realized that the
previous owner had installed the thermostat backwards! Just another
reminder to look for the obvious first...=20

=2E.Jay


=AC=B0=A4*o,=B8_=B8,o*=A4=B0=AC=AC=B0=A4*o,=B8_=B8,o*=A4=B0=AC=AC=B0=A4*o,=
=B8_=B8,o*=A4=B0=AC=AC=B0=A4*o,=B8_=B8,o*=A4=B0=AC=AC=B0=A4*o,=B8_=B8,o*=A4=
=B0
=20
jayvanv teleport.com .sig under construction. standard disclaimers.
=20
=AC=B0=A4*o,=B8_=B8,o*=A4=B0=AC=AC=B0=A4*o,=B8_=B8,o*=A4=B0=AC=AC=B0=A4*o,=
=B8_=B8,o*=A4=B0=AC=AC=B0=A4*o,=B8_=B8,o*=A4=B0=AC=AC=B0=A4*o,=B8_=B8,o*=A4=
=B0
=20

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 15:47:17 -0500
From: Pyro
To: fordtrucks-digest lofcom.com
Subject: unsubscribe
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"




_________ __ __ _________
_________

} / ____ \ / / / / / ____ \ / ____
\

}______/ /__ / /_/ /_ / /_ / /__ / /_ / /__ /
/__

[\\\(*):::>|_____/ /__ / /_/ /_ / /_ / /__ / /_ / /__ /
/___ >

} / /___/ / / / / / / /___/ / / / / /


} / ________/ \ \ / / / __ __/ / / / /

/ / \ / / / \ \ / /___/ /

/___/ / / /___/ \___\ \_________ /

/__ /

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 17:54:16 -0500
From: "George Shepherd"
To:
Subject: Re: clutch? on a '63
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sounds like a clutch going to me--awfully classic symptoms, Should be easy
to replace.

----------
> From: Jesus Cardoso
> To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
> Subject: clutch? on a '63
> Date: Sunday, June 22, 1997 9:43 AM
>
> Howdy Everyone,
>
> It has been a while since I posted on the list, up to now my truck
> was running okay. The trouble that I am experiencing with my '63
> (F100 lwb flareside, 292 Y-block, 3 speed on the column) is that is the
> past week or so it has become harder to shift. I am pretty sure that it
> is the clutch but I would like some opinions on what else it could
> possibly be. The truck has been slipping for about four months now,
> basicly when I shift into gear and step on the gas hard the engine revs
up
> and the truck moves slowly, but when I step of the gas and give it time
to
> catch up with the engine everything is fine. Basicly I have no take off
> power in any gear or when ever I step on the gas hard it does not....

---

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