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Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:37:35 -0400 (EDT)
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Subject: fordtrucks-digest Digest V97 #131
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fordtrucks-digest Digest Volume 97 : Issue 131

Today's Topics:

Re: 460 engine [John MacNamara ]
Re: 460 engine [reedg ns2.cetlink.net ]
Different Gague Question [Dan Wentz ]
Re: Compression, was Ok here's my th [Daver ]
RE: Compression, was Ok here's my th [Randy Collins ]
Help [John Strauss
Re: 460 engine ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
RE: 460 engine [Kevin Kemmerer ]
RE: Compression, was Ok here's my th [Kevin Kemmerer ]
Re: IMPORTANT ADMIN NEWS, PLEASE REA [SS2SKI aol.com ]
Dura Spark II ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Different Gague Question [Leon Atkinson ]
RE: Compression, was Ok here's my th ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]

Administrivia:

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 18:32:00 -0700
From: John MacNamara
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: 460 engine
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

reedg ns2.cetlink.net wrote:
>
> I getting a 460 engine tonight. I don't know anything about it but
> the engine number is dive-6015-A2B. Does this mean anything?
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
> For help send mail with subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks-request lofcom.com
> Comments and suggestions are welcome, use: kpayne mindspring.com

1971 block!

John

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 23:57:51 +0000
From: reedg ns2.cetlink.net
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: 460 engine
Message-Id:
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> From: John MacNamara


> reedg ns2.cetlink.net wrote:
> >
> > I getting a 460 engine tonight. I don't know anything about it but
> > the engine number is dive-6015-A2B. Does this mean anything?
> >

>
> 1971 block!
>
> John
>
Is a '71 block good or bad?
One of the people on my route gave it to me. He said it had been
machined .30 over. His roommate left it and said to spray it with
oil. The guy has been oiling it for the last five years. He even took
it with him when he moved. But his new wife told him to get rid of
it.(Been there).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:13:47 -0700
From: Dan Wentz
To: FORDTRUCKS lofcom.com
Subject: Different Gague Question
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Okay, maybe I'm easily influenced. After reading all the posts about volt
drops, etc on original instrument clusters I decided to dig mine out and
try to use it (it will look much better than the one I made and crammed too
many aftermarket gagues into). I think I'm gonna put all my old senders
from the flathead into the 351 and hope for the best (I'll figure something
out for the voltage problem). Anyway, after examining my instrument
cluster I have two questions: My odometer is all messed up. Apparently
some idiot (probably me) took it out of the speedo and spun the numbers
around then put it back wrong. It seems to be advancing properly but the
numbers are lined up wrong. Anybody know how to fix it? The second
question is brief--how the hell to you hook up the ammeter? This is on a
50 F1--there are no terminals back there, just a loop. Very strange. Any
help would be greatly appreciated.

~Dan

1992 Ford Mustang LX
1950 Ford F1, 351C-2V
Check out my F1 page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.GeoCities.com/MotorCity/3623

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 11:44:22 -0500
From: Daver
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Compression, was Ok here's my theroy....
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> My next one should be really fun since all the parts are out there
> now, I just wish there were more roller cam options for low rpm
> torque. There are tons for the 351M starting at 1500 rpm but only a
> few starting at 2500 rpm for the 460 that I've found so far. Most
> roller cams are made for hot rods I guess.
>
> -- Gary Peters --

Vanolia will make pistons to your specs from 60.00 10 125.00 each
depending on options desired.

As far as the cam goes call Eric Thompson (ET) at comp cams and tell him
what you want to do and for a reasonable price he'll set up a custom
grind that'll be as close as you can get to what you want.

Molater

Daver

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 00:45:13 -0700
From: Randy Collins
To: "'fordtrucks lofcom.com'"
Subject: RE: Compression, was Ok here's my theroy....
Message-ID:
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC9C81.DB7DCBE0"

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From: Gary, 78 BBB [SMTP:gpeters3 ford.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 1997 5:15 AM

> currently i am running a 460 with a hair over 9:1, about 280 deg.
> adv. dur., 536 lift, with stock heads mildly ported on the exhaust
> side ( just grinding out the bug lump should give about 25 hp if
> done poorly) stock valves sizes. power? all you'd want from 3000 to

Did you mean "Properly"? I've read articles which stated that the=20
humps are the single most restrictive part of the stock heads and the=20
exhaust, because of this is the only part that really needs much=20
attention except for possibly using larger intake valves etc..

I'm sure my engine doen't put out anywhere near 500 hp and it's still=20
scary but it looks like it doesn't take much tweaking to get that=20
with the 460 so I guess I'll be looking into the new NV 6 speed with=20
600# input torque rating :-)

I really only regret two things about my first attempt:
I didn't have the crank ground and replace the front seal sleeve.
I couldn't find a forged flat top piston for it back then.

My next one should be really fun since all the parts are out there=20
now, I just wish there were more roller cam options for low rpm=20
torque. There are tons for the 351M starting at 1500 rpm but only a=20
few starting at 2500 rpm for the 460 that I've found so far. Most=20
roller cams are made for hot rods I guess.

I didn't write the statement about the exaust port. But I do believe =
that the author meant to say "poorly". I have read many articles on the =
460 heads and the exhaust humps. All of them agree that even if you do =
a lousy job removing the humps you will gain at least 25HP. Imagine =
what a nice port job will do? =20


Randy Collins
Boise, Idaho
rcollins micron.net

1975 Ford F250 4WD Supercab "Muscle Truck"
Soon to have the following Randy installed options:
460 C-6




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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:50:34 -0500
From: John Strauss
To: Ford Trucks List
Subject: Help
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Hello I was wondering if anyone could tell me where I could locate the VIN
>plate on a Ford F100 Custom Cab. Now the reason for this question is that
>it would possibly help me identify what year the truck is I am thinking it
>is a 1961 because that is what the taillamp lense says but I am not sure.
>Also I think that this trucks engine is different from the original is
>there any way I can prove this. Any help that can be given will be greatly
>appreciated.
>
It should be on the inside of the driver's door above the latch or on the
inside of the glovebox door, depending on the year. If you send me the VIN
I can decode it for you. I assume you recognize the bodystyle as a 61-66?


_
_| ~~. John Strauss
\, _} jstrauss inetport.com
\( Texas Fight!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:29:30 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: 460 engine
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

> From: reedg ns2.cetlink.net
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 23:57:51 +0000
> Subject: Re: 460 engine

> Is a '71 block good or bad?
> One of the people on my route gave it to me. He said it had been
> machined .30 over. His roommate left it and said to spray it with
> oil. The guy has been oiling it for the last five years. He even
> took it with him when he moved. But his new wife told him to get rid
> of it.(Been there).

Why do guys do that?! I mean you try it once and find out you're
just trading momma for a jailer and then go out and do it again just
to get your hand slapped again :-( All because we have been brain
washed into believing we can't do without them. All you really need
is a TV, a bronco and a workshop stocked with tools :-) (maybe
not in that order)

Has he been turning it over to lube all the internal parts? If not
there may be some pitting on the crank and in the cylinders after 5
years of sitting. If you have the time and a place to work on it,
I'd suggest you tear it down and take a look before going to the
trouble to put it in only to find out there is a knock or it burns
oil etc..

-- Gary Peters --

(Mine)78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6
(Mine)78 Bronco, 4wd, 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
(Daughter's)92 Tempo
(Daughter's)92 T-Bird
(Wife's)94 T-Bird
(Son's)90 F-150, I6
(Son's)76 Blue Bird School bus
All mine to work on, maintain etc..

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:29:26 -0400
From: Kevin Kemmerer
To: "'fordtrucks lofcom.com'"
Subject: RE: 460 engine
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

well, if .030 over then it has only one more life left (.060 over) after =
this one! generally a 71 is good, deck height changed over the years, =
but that really doesn't change much except for the guys who stroke the =
thing to 512 or more cubes. the heads are more important, 68 to 70 is =
really good, 71- 73?, good, 74 on is ok. many parts don't interchange =
between the 68-69 blocks and later blocks especially on the front of the =
block.

sleddog


----------
From: reedg ns2.cetlink.net[SMTP:reedg ns2.cetlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 1997 7:57 PM
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: 460 engine


> From: John MacNamara


> reedg ns2.cetlink.net wrote:
> >=20
> > I getting a 460 engine tonight. I don't know anything about it but
> > the engine number is dive-6015-A2B. Does this mean anything?
> >=20

>=20
> 1971 block!
>=20
> John
>=20
Is a '71 block good or bad?
One of the people on my route gave it to me. He said it had been=20
machined .30 over. His roommate left it and said to spray it with=20
oil. The guy has been oiling it for the last five years. He even took=20
it with him when he moved. But his new wife told him to get rid of=20
it.(Been there).=20


____________________________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:23:06 -0400
From: Kevin Kemmerer
To: "'fordtrucks lofcom.com'"
Subject: RE: Compression, was Ok here's my theroy....
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

----------
From: Gary, 78 BBB[SMTP:gpeters3 ford.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 1997 8:14 AM
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: RE: Compression, was Ok here's my theroy....

> From: Kevin Kemmerer
> Subject: RE: Compression, was Ok here's my theroy....
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 11:13:03 -0400

> currently i am running a 460 with a hair over 9:1, about 280 deg.
> adv. dur., 536 lift, with stock heads mildly ported on the exhaust
> side ( just grinding out the bug lump should give about 25 hp if
> done poorly) stock valves sizes. power? all you'd want from 3000 to

i meant poorly, if properly done it will give more! and the amount it =
can give increases with any other performance mods, ex. 25 hp on stock =
motor, 35 on motor with headers, cam, intake, etc. (just an estimate)

Did you mean "Properly"? I've read articles which stated that the=20
humps are the single most restrictive part of the stock heads and the=20
exhaust, because of this is the only part that really needs much=20
attention except for possibly using larger intake valves etc..

yes it is the most restrictive part. in fact, the whole exhaust port is =
kind of like putting a small block head on a big block motor! the =
exhaust needs alot of work. people used to mill off the whole exhuast =
side of the head and bolt on an aluminum plate that had bigger, =
straighter, higher exhaust ports. now though a company sells a set of =
heads that have better exhaust ports, and one set that has the chevy =
b.b. ports on the exhaust side - much bigger than the ford size and =
shaped better too! [damn i hate to admit that about a chevy!]

also, there is a way to fill the air passage in the head so that the =
exhaust ports can be ground out even furthur yeilding even more benifits =
from all that grinding and polishing! let me know if you want to know, =
and i'll post what i know about how to do this.

I'm sure my engine doen't put out anywhere near 500 hp and it's still=20
scary but it looks like it doesn't take much tweaking to get that=20
with the 460 so I guess I'll be looking into the new NV 6 speed with=20
600# input torque rating :-)

I really only regret two things about my first attempt:
I didn't have the crank ground and replace the front seal sleeve.
I couldn't find a forged flat top piston for it back then.

i am using trw forged pistons for all builds as i have had good luck =
with them. expensive though!
i know on mine i should have put a little more time in an the grinder =
with the heads, and my motor is just screaming for a single plane intake =
and bigger header primary tubes, oh yeah, and a solid or roller cam!

My next one should be really fun since all the parts are out there=20
now, I just wish there were more roller cam options for low rpm=20
torque. There are tons for the 351M starting at 1500 rpm but only a=20
few starting at 2500 rpm for the 460 that I've found so far. Most=20
roller cams are made for hot rods I guess.

for that roller cam, call comp cams, they have in the back of their =
catalog a whole list of different lobe shapes for cams. they may be =
able to custom grind you a cam cheap. if not, even companies like =
crower do custom grinds and it is really not that expensive sometimes. =
- don't forget that bronze destributer gear!
also, the 460 even with a cam that is "too big", an oversized carb, and =
poor tuning makes enough torque at the bottom that it is very drivable =
with a standard or low stall auto. it may not be real responsive, but =
it doesn't bog out and act like it wants to quit if you make it pull =
from idle lugging the motor. the heads do have relatively small ports, =
and cubic inches always help.

something to think about - why are most roller cams for the highest =
performace builds, and not for closer to stock motors? the benefits of =
roller cams can help ALL engines, as ford found out in their mustangs =
302HO in the early '80's. (wish my 460 had a stock roller cam in it - =
would make putting in the really big bump stick i need a whole lot =
cheeper!)

sleddog


-- Gary Peters --

(Mine)78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6
(Mine)78 Bronco, 4wd, 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
(Daughter's)92 Tempo
(Daughter's)92 T-Bird
(Wife's)94 T-Bird
(Son's)90 F-150, I6
(Son's)76 Blue Bird School bus
All mine to work on, maintain etc..


____________________________________________________________________
Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
For help send mail with subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks-request lofcom.com
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:22:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: SS2SKI aol.com
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: IMPORTANT ADMIN NEWS, PLEASE READ
Message-ID:

AM VERY INTERESTED IN RECEIVING CATALOG..

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:23:22 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Dura Spark II
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Well, I grabbed the wrong book! It has the Canadian version which
seems to be the same wiring scheme and the book calls it the
"standard" dura spark II but it's harder to decipher than the one in
my 79 Peterson's manual so I'll throw out a bit here and bring in the
Peterson's tomorrow to finish up.

Most Ford vehicles going way back to the mid 60's at least have a
starter relay with one or two small wires on it to operate the
selenoid. I'm familiar with the two wire version, one being the
trigger and the other being the 12v signal to the coil for start
mode. As long as the selenoid is energized the coil gets 12 v. When
deenergized the ignition has to find another source of power which
comes through the ballast resistor at about 6-8 v.

Apparently power is supplied from the ignition switch to the start
relay, coil and ignition module at the same time in parallel more or
less so that the distributor wiring is also affected by these voltage
values through the module. The shematic I have today leaves too much
to the imagination so I'll confirm all this tomorrow with my
Peterson's. This manual also has the complete run down on the years
the wires were switched which I'll post tomorrow as well.

I had to replace a starter once because the module shorted internally
to the white wire roughly 2v in run mode which was sufficient to
keep the selenoid energized which kept the starter energized and 12v
to the ignition as well. Starters don't like to spin at 12k rpm all
day long :-(

As already mentioned, at some point the orange and purple wires
changed purposes but the colors didn't change so while the plugs will
match up and the colors will look right the system won't operate
correctly if you mix them up. Get the box with the blue seal BTW.

Basically, the Purple, Black and Orange wires from the module go to
the distributor. The black wire is ground. The green wire in the
module goes more or less directly to the dist side of the coil. Red
and white go to the ignition switch, red to the run terminal and
white to the start terminal.

In the case of the points ignition there should be a wire coming from
the run terminal of the switch to the ballast resistor to the coil
and another wire coming from the start terminal of the switch, either
to the start relay and then to the coil or two wires, one to the
realay and one to the coil depending on which relay it uses. These
wires can be used to hook to the red and white wires of the Dura
Spark module as described above.

The wire which went to the batt side of the original coil can then be
hooked to the batt side of the new coil assuming the above is true
and the green module wire can then be connected directly to the dist
side of the coil.

The other three wires should have a plug on them which plugs directly
into the distributor or harness leading to the distributor, either 3
or 4 pins. The one with 4 pins simply has the dist green wire in the
plug instead of by itself and a pigtail going to the coil from the
mating plug which is one of the several changes which were made
basically to this plug arrangement. If you happen to get the orange
and purple wires crossed the engine will not start at all and I found
that the red and white wires are not necessarily matched either and
crossing them will cause the engine to start but won't keep running
when you release the key.

I'm going to post this now and keep a copy to refer to tomorrow. I
believe I have it right so far but just in case wait for the
update before acting on any of this info. :-)

-- Gary Peters --

(Mine)78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6
(Mine)78 Bronco, 4wd, 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
(Daughter's)92 Tempo
(Daughter's)92 T-Bird
(Wife's)94 T-Bird
(Son's)90 F-150, I6
(Son's)76 Blue Bird School bus
All mine to work on, maintain etc..

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 08:28:20 -0700
From: Leon Atkinson
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: Re: Different Gague Question
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 09:13 PM 7/29/97 -0700, Dan wrote:
>The second
>question is brief--how the hell to you hook up the ammeter? This is on a
>50 F1--there are no terminals back there, just a loop.

An electrical line for one of the other gauges goes through the loop. It
reads
amps by the magnetic field that's produced when current runs through it. I
can't
remember if it's supposed to be a particular wire, or if any of them will do.

Leon
1956 F100

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:16:45 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
To: fordtrucks lofcom.com
Subject: RE: Compression, was Ok here's my theroy....
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

> From: Kevin Kemmerer
> Subject: RE: Compression, was Ok here's my theroy....
> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:23:06 -0400....


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