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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list 97up-list); Mon, 15 May 2000 00:10:47 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 00:10:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server ford-trucks.com>
To: 97up-list digest users ford-trucks.com>
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Subject: 97up-list Digest V2000 #75
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------------------------------------
97up-list Digest Sun, 14 May 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 075

In This Issue:
Re: Payload & Dually questions, Part 2
Re: Payload & Dually questions, Part 2
Re: Payloads Additional
Re: Payload & Dually questions, Part 2

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: RSnovi aol.com
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 01:29:23 EDT
Subject: Re: Payload & Dually questions, Part 2

Find a dealer that deals in fleet stuff, cube vans, over the road jobs, and
they usually have a good handle on some options you can do with F 450 F550,
try some big cities, just look in the phone book, or depending on what area
you are in I might could recommend a FoMoCo dlr.
I know a friend that has a F450 4x4 , it looks similar to F350 really except
for lager brakes and a few other gearing and spring changes.

RS

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 23:03:21 -0700
From: johny netapp.com>
Subject: Re: Payload & Dually questions, Part 2

SCA,
(warning - wordy description to follow...)

First the pickup beds -
Try the ford truck dealers as others have mentioned.
Also...

Try out your local "horse/tack" store. In the free magazines they have
I've seen adds both aftermarket, and aftermarket via various Ford dealers
for pickup bodies on both F450's and F550's. I live in Ca, and the dealerships
I've
seen adds for are usually in the Central valley.
Centurion and George has mentioned. Fontaine sticks in my head as a name, but
I can't find any url's.

I've also seen flatbed utility bodies, that have boatloads of storage and a trap
door
for a gooseneck hitch. I think you could have gotten the side built up to hold
a camper if you want to. Utility bodies run from 4K to 8K from what I gather.


One of the guys in the area, has the above truck. He has a F450 2x4 CC auto.
Has a flatbed for the gooseneck, and lots of storage on the sides. Truck weighs
in at about 8500 lbs. with a 26000 GCWR. The 99 literature says it has 15,000
lb.
GVWR. (have to use 4:88 gearing to get 26K GCWR)



The way to look at the 450 vs. 550 is to consider towing vs. hauling.
The 550 can carry more, but tow less than a 450 since the 550 weighs more.

Don't discount the F350 just yet.

Now to the differences between a 350, 450, and 550
I'll use 4x4 weights only:

350 gvwr 12,500 front/rear axle 5200/9750 ? 4:10
450 gvwr 15,000 front/rear axle 6000/11000 dana 80 4:88
550 gvwr 17500 front/rear axle 6000/13500 dana 135 4:88

Note: the 350CC chassis cab has a GVWR of 12,500 vs. the pickup of 11,200.
Hmmm.

Wheels on the 450 and 550 are 19.5. So tire and wheel selection are somewhat
limited. Brakes may be different too. On the 450 and 550, I think they are
hydro boosted (don't know what that means).

As for the ride, the 550 is harsher, but I've never ridden in one.
But that being said, check out the forums on www.ford -diesel. com.
There are folks there that do.
(some of them with 650/750s).

And here's something to mess it up even further.
The person I know with the F450, was telling me he was reading something on
the ford-diesel site.. (not sure if it was true or a wish)... Ford *may* be
considering a F450 variant in the 2001 year that includes a pickup bed and
air ride suspension. Oh, 48Gal fuel tank too. (don't know more than that)

Think of it a ford built product to take business away from the small tractor
crowd (freightliner/International) that hauls big horse trailers and big 5th
wheels.
Something in the $50K+ range vs. the $80K+ range that the others are in.

When it's all said and done. A F450 is an expensive option for a truck,
when it may be way cheaper to reconsider to a popup type
camper or 5th wheel/trailer. Selling the "nimitz" camper, may be a less
costly alternative.

But, of course, it depends what you want to do now, and in the future
with this truck.

-john



------------------------------

From: "GARY GADWA" ruralnetwork.net>
Subject: Re: Payloads Additional
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 10:33:43 -0600

Payloads and my 2000 F250 Supercab

Further description regarding over loading the F-250. I'm running 245/75
R16 Load Range E Michelin LTX tires with a rating of 3042 lbs. Especially
like the tire size as the slightly shorter profile effectively pushes the
RPMs up for hauling the camper closer to the peak torque range. I prefer
the 4 leaf overload springs over Air Bags as they only affect the ride or
comfort of the ride when the truck is loaded down. A buddy has Firestone air
on his 99 DRW Supercab and has more sway on the road than I do with the 91
Supercab with 4 overload springs. He is for ever fiddling with the air
pressure. I think I will opt for 5 overload springs this time with a 3,000
lb. load boost.
Everyone who who has mentioned the Legal Load GVWR is certainly correct.
Thanks for the discussion.....again

GARY G.
Stanley, IDAHO
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server" ford-trucks.com>
To: "97up-list digest users" ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 9:46 PM
Subject: 97up-list Digest V2000 #74


> ==========================================================
> Ford Truck Enthusiasts 1997 and Newer Truck Mailing
> List(Use the Small Chassis List for Rangers, Explorers,
> Aerostars and Bronco IIs.
>
> Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com
>
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the subject of the
> message.
> ==========================================================
>
> ------------------------------------
> 97up-list Digest Fri, 12 May 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 074
>
> In This Issue:
> Re: Payloads again
> Payload & Dually questions, Part 2
> Re: Payload & Dually questions, Part 2
> Re: Payload & Dually questions, Part 2
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: "Harald Stenger" foxinternet.net>
> Subject: Re: Payloads again
> Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 20:07:02 -0700
>
> Unless you are carrying the camper full time, I would pass on the added
leaf
> springs and put air bags on instead. I have Firestone Ride-rite springs
on
> my y2k F350 CC DRW truck. I carry a 4000 lb loaded weight camper. The air
> springs level the truck and stabilize it. They are rated for up to 5000
lbs
> extra weight capacity, although they do not legally increase your GVWR
> (neither will the leaf springs). The beauty of the springs is that when
the
> camper is not on the truck, I drop the air pressure down to 5 psi and my
> ride is completely unaffected. With the added leafs, you end up with a
very
> harsh ride unloaded.
>
> Harald
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Ben Franklin
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 17:11:09 +0100
> From: SCA mindspring.com>
> Subject: Payload & Dually questions, Part 2
>
> I'm the guy that posted the original question awhile ago regarding
> payloads, duallys and
> campers. It's a good thing that this forum exists for such questions. I've
> not been able to
> get ANY information elsewhere.
>
> The only bad thing is that the answers here have been very disappointing
as
> far as the 350
> goes. I'm stunned that such an expensive truck can only legitimately carry
> something a
> little less than 1/4 it's own weight. Boy, was I stoopid. It makes me feel
> especially bad
> because, apart from it's apparent lack of ability to actually carry a
load,
> I really have
> enjoyed it and it's been very reliable. The enormous truck bed it had
> certainly LOOKED like
> it could carry more than a chihuahua puppy.
>
> So I'm now in the market for a 450 or a 550. I'm trying to do my homework
> and not make any
> such errors this time around.
>
> Unfortunately, the same cloud of general ignorance that surrounded the
F350
> seems even
> denser with 450s and 550s. I'm asking what I'd consider to be the most
> basic set of
> questions and not getting any answers. So here I am back at this forum,
> which seems to be
> the only place with information.
>
> My general plan is to get a 450 or 550 PowerStroke crewcab 4X4 automatic
> dually with a standard truck bed.
> When I talk to most of the Ford dealers and the subject turns to 450s &
> 550s with a regular truck bed, what
> I get is:
>
> "Gee. I don't know."
> "We've never done that before."
> "I don't know if truck beds are available for 450s & 550s."
> "We don't sell many 450s or 550's"
>
> My personal favorite is:
>
> "Why would you want so much truck? Just get a 350. It can carry the
biggest
> camper made with
> payload to spare, and we've got several here on the lot. Why don't you
come
> down here and look
> at one?"
>
> Which is when I usually hang up.
>
> I believe I have a line on a dealer that at least knows how to put a
> standard truck bed on a
> 450 & 550, but they're not helping me on which one to buy.
>
> Based on the tiny amount of information I can actually dig up, I can't
find
> out why anyone
> would ever buy a 450. The difference in price between a 450 and a 550 is
> only around $700 on
> $40000 (when all is said and done) worth of truck, and the 550 can carry a
> ton and a quarter
> more.
>
> Clearly, if you're looking past the 350s to the 450s and 550s, you're
doing
> it because of
> payload requirements (after all, the basic engine is the same, ain't it?),
> and why on earth would you
> ever buy a 450 when you can get 1.25 ton greater payload for $700?
>
> So, like, what am I missing this time? Is there something about the 550
> that would tend to
> push one back down to the 450 for some reason? Like:
>
> Is the ride so stiff it beats you to death, more so than the 450?
> Is there some kind of higher tax?
> Does the 550 get significantly worse mileage?
> Are there some options on the 450 that aren't available in the 550?
> Is there some hidden issue I don't know to ask that'll make me wish I'd
> gotten a 450?
>
> I'm beginning to feel like the proverbial Polish mine detector. (No
offense
> to anyone.)
>
> Lastly, where would be the best place to advertise my 350 for sale? I was
> going to post the particulars
> about my truck with this message, but I wasn't sure if for-sale stuff was
> allowed here.
>
> SCA
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: "George Passidakis" home.com>
> Subject: Re: Payload & Dually questions, Part 2
> Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 17:44:57 -0700
>
> SCA,
>
> One place to check on standard beds for 450/550 truck is:
>
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.centurionvehicles.com/fbox.htm
>
> They might be able to get you some better info and guidance. I'm not sure
> if they only sell the whole vehicle or will take a truck and add the std
> bed. Let us know what you find out. They are in MI but have dealers
> elsewhere.
>
> George
> F-350 SWR
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: CERESJohnG aol.com
> Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 00:45:59 EDT
> Subject: Re: Payload & Dually questions, Part 2
>
> I wouldn't feel particularly "stoopid",
> And I'm not sure the 350 is out of the question yet. First, you need to
> really get a handle on what the options lists are for that vehicle
regarding
> load capacity. The problem is the plate rating on the vehicle. Second
it's
> the dealer. They want to sell you what's in stock and 450's and 550's are
not
> nor are heavy rated 350's. All three of the majors have extensive option
list
> for the 250 and 350 class vehicles.
>
> You have to first find a truck oriented dealer. Generally these guys are
> more commercial oriented. Then possibly you can get some clear headed
> answers. Most dealers don't have anyone that really knows trucks nor do
they
> think you are serious when you start looking for something a little off
the
> wall. They want to sell stuff thats floating around on their floor plan.
>
> There are also folks out there that will do the mods to beef up the load
> capacity and can certify that it's been done. Generally these are folks
that
> do custom bodies like work bodies or small wreckers or flat beds for 350's
.
>
> The normal 350 is sprung for ride and towing, say a 5th wheel. Most
> knowledgable slide in owners boosted capacity to get the handling they
needed
> by aftermarket mods at the camper dealer or some independant shop. It's
only
> recent law enforcement emphasis in some areas that has suddenly created
> this issue. It's a pain, but perhaps justified. A lot of Rec Vehicle
dealers
> are like car dealers. They sell what's on the floor plan and the hell with
> what's legal. They probaly couldnt read a rating plate. If it fits it's
going
> to be great. The cop that stops you 1000 miles away from home isn't his
> problem.
>
> Sorry for being so windy.
>
> John G
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of 97up-list Digest V2000 #74
> *********************************
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Ford Truck Enthusiasts 1997 and Newer Truck List
>
> Send posts to 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>
> If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing
> list, send an email to:
>
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>
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>
> Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>


------------------------------

From: "Ian R. Poyntz" canada.com>
Subject: Re: Payload & Dually questions, Part 2
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 13:12:56 +0800

SCA:

If you really want to know your legal load limit. Take the 450 or 550 of
your choice from the dealership on a test drive to a weigh scale and
subtract the weight of the vehicle from the sticker weight. This is the
only issue when it comes to legality.

When I bought my truck I asked to test drive it 200km to a lake and back. I
also asked the dealer to fill the tank to overflowing. The dealer looked at
me dumbfounded and asked, "Why !!". I said, "I am not going to spend my
money before I know what gas mileage this thing gets". He let me go.

Once you get it right, happy motoring.

Ian...


----- Original Message -----
From: "SCA" mindspring.com>
To: <97up-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 12:11 AM
Subject: [97up-list] Payload & Dually questions, Part 2


> I'm the guy that posted the original question awhile ago regarding
> payloads, duallys and
> campers. It's a good thing that this forum exists for such questions. I've
> not been able to
> get ANY information elsewhere.
>
> The only bad thing is that the answers here have been very disappointing
as
> far as the 350
> goes. I'm stunned that such an expensive truck can only legitimately carry
> something a
> little less than 1/4 it's own weight. Boy, was I stoopid. It makes me feel
> especially bad
> because, apart from it's apparent lack of ability to actually carry a
load,
> I really have
> enjoyed it and it's been very reliable. The enormous truck bed it had
> certainly LOOKED like
> it could carry more than a chihuahua puppy.
>
> So I'm now in the market for a 450 or a 550. I'm trying to do my homework
> and not make any
> such errors this time around.
>
> Unfortunately, the same cloud of general ignorance that surrounded the
F350
> seems even
> denser with 450s and 550s. I'm asking what I'd consider to be the most
> basic set of
> questions and not getting any answers. So here I am back at this forum,
> which seems to be
> the only place with information.
>
> My general plan is to get a 450 or 550 PowerStroke crewcab 4X4 automatic
> dually with a standard truck bed.
> When I talk to most of the Ford dealers and the subject turns to 450s &
> 550s with a regular truck bed, what
> I get is:
>
> "Gee. I don't know."
> "We've never done that before."
> "I don't know if truck beds are available for 450s & 550s."
> "We don't sell many 450s or 550's"
>
> My personal favorite is:
>
> "Why would you want so much truck? Just get a 350. It can carry the
biggest
> camper made with
> payload to spare, and we've got several here on the lot. Why don't you
come
> down here and look
> at one?"
>
> Which is when I usually hang up.
>
> I believe I have a line on a dealer that at least knows how to put a
> standard truck bed on a
> 450 & 550, but they're not helping me on which one to buy.
>
> Based on the tiny amount of information I can actually dig up, I can't
find
> out why anyone
> would ever buy a 450. The difference in price between a 450 and a 550 is
> only around $700 on
> $40000 (when all is said and done) worth of truck, and the 550 can carry a
> ton and a quarter
> more.
>
> Clearly, if you're looking past the 350s to the 450s and 550s, you're
doing
> it because of
> payload requirements (after all, the basic engine is the same, ain't it?),
> and why on earth would you
> ever buy a 450 when you can get 1.25 ton greater payload for $700?
>
> So, like, what am I missing this time? Is there something about the 550
> that would tend to
> push one back down to the 450 for some reason? Like:
>
> Is the ride so stiff it beats you to death, more so than the 450?
> Is there some kind of higher tax?
> Does the 550 get significantly worse mileage?
> Are there some options on the 450 that aren't available in the 550?
> Is there some hidden issue I don't know to ask that'll make me wish I'd
> gotten a 450?
>
> I'm beginning to feel like the proverbial Polish mine detector. (No
offense
> to anyone.)
>
> Lastly, where would be the best place to advertise my 350 for sale? I was
> going to post the particulars
> about my truck with this message, but I wasn't sure if for-sale stuff was
> allowed here.
>
> SCA
>
> ==========================================================....


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