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Subject: 97up-list Digest V2000 #68
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97up-list Digest Thu, 04 May 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 068

In This Issue:
SD brake ctrlr#2
performance chips
Re: 97 F350 PowerStroke Crewcab payload & Dually questions
Subject: 97 F350 PowerStroke Crewcab payload & Dually ques
Re: performance chips
Re: Truck camper payload
Re: Rhino liner experience
Re: Rhino liner experience
F-350 payloads

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 15:46:16 -0500
From: Janster bigfoot.com>
Subject: SD brake ctrlr#2

Folks,

Many thanks for all the helpful replies, especially from John, cc'd
above. If I had known about that site earlier, I would have bought one
from there. As it stands now, I'll need a brake controller for this
weekend. A local shop sells the Activator II for $84.00. Other web sites
I checked out wanted more, cheapest until now was $88.00. I'll just have
to eat the $6.00 diff.
I'm planning on installing it above the gas pedal, still allowing the
fuse panel to still be removed, in a little shallow area in the plastic
molding. By all accounts, the install/wiring should be simple.

As for the 7-way Bargman trailer connector, I changed my mind as to
where I wanted to install it. I originally wanted to mount the connector
bracket to the bottom lip of the rear bumper. It would have been flimsy
and greatly exposed when 4x4'ing or backing up. Instead, I made a
template and drilled numerous holes in the shape of the connector into
the rear bumper, creating a hole for the connector. After being
installed, it now feels 100% solid and nothing is exposed; totally safe.
The location is about 5 inches left of the left license plate light on
the flat portion of the bumper faceplate. Looking underneath the bumper,
the hole is between the bumper support and the ball mount support; won't
seem to structurally weaken it.

Sorry I couldn't reply earlierand for this long email. I'll be away
starting tomorrow but returning Monday.

Jan


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 21:47:08 +0100
Subject: performance chips
From: Kirk Werner Werner.org>


I'm kicking around the idea of s performance chip...I've read about
Superchips, but I know there are other performance chips available for the
Superduty motors. Has anyone shopped around for competetive performance and
price? Does Superchips make the best chip?
For now it's just on my wish list, but sometime down the road I may put one
in, especially if the price of 92 octane drops below the current average
price of $189.9 around the Seattle area. I've got a '00 F350 CC V-10, auto,
4.3 rear. It has good power, but the shift points in the tranny are less
than what I would call perfect. Once I load a camper I may wish for a chip.

Thanks

Kirk


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 06:39:45 -0400
From: Rick Waldbart duty.com>
Subject: Re: 97 F350 PowerStroke Crewcab payload & Dually questions

SCA

FWIW, I'm planning a similar setup, and of course, delaying things so I can
afford this rig! But my plan now is to go with an F-550 2001 P/S 4WD DRW CC.
I'd love to add some additional tanks, and will, as I put this thing together and
watch the overall weights climb. First would be the fuel, then perhaps other
additional options. My own guidelines will be to try to stay within 75% of the
max weights. I know, probably over cautious, but I rented a unit just like
the one I want...a Bigfoot 3000 loaded on a '96 P/S and I was pretty
anxious in some of the spots I was in. Folks who haven't experienced
the load by itself first, and the high center of gravity of these campers
just can't imagine how awkward it is. Beyond that braking capacity is
also a critical factor.

I could probably go through the weights here but that's not the issue. I
GVWR for this is in the neighborhood of 17,500 and my guesstimate of
my real actual load is going to be about 14,000.

My own thought is that you've pretty well assessed the dilemma and you'll
figure it out appropriately...but, give yourself a break. Our world is filled
with folks who are very prone to ridiculing you as you go through this
process and figure out a properly loaded rig. It does take a good effort
to put things together.

They just go ahead and drive them horribly overloaded anyway!

I know, this isn't much real help, but give yourself a break. Lot's of folks
have done it and they're not asking about it.

One guys thoughts

Rick Waldbart




Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 14:50:36 -0700
From: SCA mindspring.com>
Subject: 97 F350 PowerStroke Crew cab payload & Dually questions

I have a '97 PowerStroke Crew cab 4X4 non-dually automatic. I've just bought
a new piggyback camper (about the size of the Nimitz, weighing 3500 lbs....(snip)

8. Just what WOULD have been the proper truck to have with such a camper?

Having already bought this camper and put myself in this situation, I'm
beginning to feel just like those cartoon characters that briefly turn into
a sucker when they realize how stupid they've been. Any help on this would
certainly be appreciated.

SCA


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 09:09:29 -0400
Subject: Subject: 97 F350 PowerStroke Crewcab payload & Dually ques
From: "Steve and Caryl Baron" rcn.com>

Aside from road stability and sway, and going around corners too fast, be
sure you are "comfortable" with increased safe stopping distance as well as
what will happen in a panic stop.

Steve
--
Steve Baron New York, NY baronny rcn.com

------------------------------

From: RSnovi aol.com
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 09:20:15 EDT
Subject: Re: performance chips

In a message dated 5/5/00 12:48:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Kirk Werner.org
writes:


I think it was worth it just to straighten out the slop in the trans
shifting. Most everyone is pretty close on price. maybe 10+/-.

RS
<<
I'm kicking around the idea of s performance chip...I've read about
Superchips, but I know there are other performance chips available for the
Superduty motors. Has anyone shopped around for competetive performance and
price? Does Superchips make the best chip?
For now it's just on my wish list, but sometime down the road I may put one
in, especially if the price of 92 octane drops below the current average
price of $189.9 around the Seattle area. I've got a '00 F350 CC V-10, auto,
4.3 rear. It has good power, but the shift points in the tranny are less
than what I would call perfect. Once I load a camper I may wish for a chip.

Thanks

Kirk
>>

------------------------------

From: "Harald" foxinternet.net>
Subject: Re: Truck camper payload
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 08:29:48 -0700

----I've added comments throughout your post.

I have a '97 PowerStroke Crewcab 4X4 non-dually automatic. I've just bought
a new piggyback camper (about the size of the Nimitz, weighing 3500 lbs.
without water and such) and I think I've stupidly and inadvertently
overloaded my truck. It never occurred to me (duh) that my truck wouldn't
be able to handle a stoopid camper. It's an F350, for God's sake. I've got
a flock of questions about this situation.

----Sounds like my story. I have a 11'10" Alpenlite camper with all the
goodies. 3277 lb claimed wet weight. Actual travel weight of about 4000
lbs. I just took about a $4000 loss on a 2 year old SRW F350 to get a
dually to handle that camper.

1. My GVWR is listed on the inside door panel as 9200. The empty truck
weighs in at 8000 lbs at a local scale. My payload is 1200 lbs? Does this
REALLY mean that if I put in 6 adults I've exceeded my capacity with
nothing at all in the bed? What can I REALLY (safely) get away with? (Some
have argued that my truck can't be 8000 empty, that it SHOULD be around
6700. But that's what the scale folk said. What should be the known weight
of my truck?) Truck and camper and all appear to be weighing in at 11,500.

----That's about the weight I had on my 9900 lb GVWR truck. The new Super
duty trucks are heavy, so there's not much payload. My new F350 CC DRW 4x4
weighs 7300 lbs and that's with the V10. The diesel adds 500 lbs.

2. What is the payload difference between my truck and a factory dually
version of the same truck, all other things being equal?

----The Super duty dually GVWR is 11,200 lbs. The SRW truck is 9900 lbs.

3. What is the mechanical difference between my truck and a factory dually
version? Is the only difference the double tires and fender flares and fuel
tank access mods, or is there something more? As in beefier axles and
suspension and such on a dually version?

----Dually has stronger axles on both ends, stronger springs, and of course
4 wheels in back.

4. What about converting my truck to a dually in an aftermarket fashion?
What will its payload be then? Is an aftermarket dually conversion the same
as a factory-built dually version? Is there more than one kind of dually
conversion? (Like, heavy-duty as opposed to light weight?) What would be
the going price of such a conversion? Does that fact that it's a 4X4 have
an impact on this situation?

----I think you'd be better off trading in than compromising on dually
conversion that legally doesn't change your GVWR. From what I've seen, the
conversions are marketed as increasing stability only.

5. What OTHER things can I do to bring my truck up to snuff with respect to
safely carrying this camper around? Are there other ways to increase it's
load-carrying capability and overall stability under load? (I've already
done the airbag thing.)

----Besides the biggest improvement (airbags) you could add Rancho 9000
shocks. Heavier tires would be great, but the strongest I could find are
Firestone Steeltex at 3415 lbs each in 16 inch size (which is what comes
stock on a Super Duty).

6. Aside from the obvious fact that my load range E tires are overloaded,
what other mechanical failures are most likely?

----The tires are my biggest concern. I had 7100 lbs on the rear axle and
the tires were limited to 6830 lbs. I don't want to think about a blow out
with that big top heavy camper loaded. I ran 90 psi in my rear tires to
lessen flex and subsequent heat build up, yet the tires still got very
warm. You can do this per Firestone if your wheel can handle the pressure.

7. I am told that airbags increase the load carrying capability. Some have
even said that it increases it by 5000 lbs., which makes no sense to me at
all. It's still the same leaf-springs and frame and axles and tires and
such under there. I can see how airbags might make things a bit smoother,
but how can they add to the useful payload?

----Airbags do not increase your legal GVWR ! The Firestone ride-rites are
rated for up to 5000 lbs weight and will level the truck. You're right, the
weight is still on that overloaded axle and tires. The springs get a break
is all.

8. Just what WOULD have been the proper truck to have with such a camper?

----My new truck weighs 11,500 fully loaded, so I'm still over "Legal" GVWR
by 300 lbs. If you have a diesel, you'll be over by 800 lbs. If you're
concerned about being totally legal, you'll have to get a F450. I
personally am not at all concerned with my overload as the dually axle is
rated for about 10,000 lbs.

Having already bought this camper and put myself in this situation, I'm
beginning to feel just like those cartoon characters that briefly turn into
a sucker when they realize how stupid they've been. Any help on this would
certainly be appreciated.

----That's how I feel. And to think that the RV dealer told me all I needed
was a F250 for that camper!


Harald

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Ben Franklin


------------------------------

From: "Mark Corboy" flash.net>
Subject: Re: Rhino liner experience
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 12:56:04 -0500

Re. Rhino linings
In my experience you defiantly have to pick the right installer.
As far as Rhino or not, here goes.
Our shop has had two trucks done with Toff brand.
Both trucks had sections of the lining that came off in sheets approx. 5" by
& " in various parts of the bed.
One other time we had a mobile linings guy come to our shop, that job did
not even last for 6 months (I don't remember the brand)
We had Rhino of north Texas do my truck in 1994, had the side rails sprayed
and then installed aluminum diamond plate over that
(another over-engineered product due to a long time of aircraft work) I have
trashed that truck when moving all kinds of stuff and so far have been
unable to not tear up the lining.
Then had another truck done in 1997 so far so good with this one.
I can't say your dealer screwed up but this one definitely didn't.
Best of luck.


As far as the installer you have the talent aspect right

-----Original Message-----
From: 97up-list-bounce ford-trucks.com
[mailto:97up-list-bounce ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Harald
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 1:11 PM
To: Ford Trucks List
Subject: [97up-list] Rhino liner experience


Recently had a Rhino lining sprayed in my 2000 F350 CC DRW Lariat truck. I
learned how important it is to get a good dealer to do your install. The
product is good as long as you get a good installer. The dealer in Auburn,
WA is not in the good category.

I picked up my truck after they sprayed it and couldn't close the tailgate
because they installed the rubber bumpers backwards. When I got home and
closed the tailgate again, it made a "twanging" sound. While driving, I
wondered why my stereo sounded so bad until I noticed that my antenna had
not been reinstalled. To top it off, they didn't spray the top edge of the
front bulkhead as I had requested. And the tailgate cover had so little
product on the edges I could see white paint.

So the truck gets rescheduled to fix the problems. I go to pick it up and
check the antenna first: it's only on finger tight. The dealer admits they
left a clip loose in the tailgate and also left a roll of tape inside. The
respray looks good. But there's product on the rear quarter of the cab,
around the door handle, on the inside of the door, on the steering wheel and
on the leather seat. Dealer comes out and cleans everything off himself.
Oh yea, they left the trailer tow mirrors folded in.

I just notice some more overspray on the lower part of the driver door and
don't want to go back before they screw up anything else. Needless to say,
I'm not impressed. Maybe I expect too much, being a aircraft mechanic, but
this is just the most sorry work I've seen. So be careful when you pick
your installer.

Harald


"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Ben Franklin

==========================================================
To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
the words "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the subject of the
message.



------------------------------

From: "Mark Corboy" flash.net>
Subject: Re: Rhino liner experience
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 13:12:03 -0500

Boy, do I hate typos. Many apologies I will now go to my corner and wear my
pointed little "dunce" cap. The message remains buyer beware.
Re. Rhino linings
In my experience you definitely have to pick the right installer.
As far as Rhino or not, here goes.
Our shop has had two trucks done with Toff brand.
Both trucks had sections of the lining that came off in sheets approx. 5" by
& " in various parts of the bed.
One other time we had a mobile linings guy come to our shop, that job did
not even last for 6 months (I don't remember the brand)
We had Rhino of north Texas do my truck in 1994, had the side rails sprayed
and then installed aluminum diamond plate over that
(another over-engineered product due to a long time of aircraft work) I have
trashed that truck when moving all kinds of stuff and so far have been
unable to not tear up the lining.
Then had another truck done in 1997 so far so good with this one.
I can't say your dealer screwed up but this one definitely didn't.
Best of luck.


As far as the installer you have the talent aspect right

-----Original Message-----
From: 97up-list-bounce ford-trucks.com
[mailto:97up-list-bounce ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Harald
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 1:11 PM
To: Ford Trucks List
Subject: [97up-list] Rhino liner experience


Recently had a Rhino lining sprayed in my 2000 F350 CC DRW Lariat truck. I
learned how important it is to get a good dealer to do your install. The
product is good as long as you get a good installer. The dealer in Auburn,
WA is not in the good category.

I picked up my truck after they sprayed it and couldn't close the tailgate
because they installed the rubber bumpers backwards. When I got home and
closed the tailgate again, it made a "twanging" sound. While driving, I
wondered why my stereo sounded so bad until I noticed that my antenna had
not been reinstalled. To top it off, they didn't spray the top edge of the
front bulkhead as I had requested. And the tailgate cover had so little
product on the edges I could see white paint.

So the truck gets rescheduled to fix the problems. I go to pick it up and
check the antenna first: it's only on finger tight. The dealer admits they
left a clip loose in the tailgate and also left a roll of tape inside. The
respray looks good. But there's product on the rear quarter of the cab,
around the door handle, on the inside of the door, on the steering wheel and
on the leather seat. Dealer comes out and cleans everything off himself.
Oh yea, they left the trailer tow mirrors folded in.

I just notice some more overspray on the lower part of the driver door and
don't want to go back before they screw up anything else. Needless to say,
I'm not impressed. Maybe I expect too much, being a aircraft mechanic, but
this is just the most sorry work I've seen. So be careful when you pick
your installer.

Harald


"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Ben Franklin

==========================================================
To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
the words "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the subject of the
message.


==========================================================
To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
the words "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the subject of the
message.



------------------------------

From: "Steve J. Hodson" mindspring.com>
Subject: F-350 payloads
Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 20:32:47 -0400


I inadvertently deleted a recent thread that centered around camper carrying of F-350 superduty's. Here is my 2C worth, hope it finds the earlier correspondents. The advertising literature that came with my truck lists payload capacity for my 99 F350 crew cab 4x4 srw as 3865 lbs. The drw version is listed as 5000 lbs. They specify payload as passengers, fuel and whatever is in the bed or hung elsewhere on the truck. The camper loading spec sheet that came with my truck lists the cargo weight rating as 2392 lbs and specifies that you add 150lbs/seating position for passengers. This would add up to a payload (cargo + 6 passengers) of 3292 lbs. The camper load spec sheet doesn't say how to consider fuel but if I add 266 lbs for fuel (38gal x 7 lbs/gal) this totals 3558 lbs of payload. Not the same as the literature. I don't know why the numbers that you generate using weights, tire capacities and GAWR's show such a low pay load and I don't know which data to believe. I do know that with 3200 lbs (of stone) in the bed of my truck drives quite well though you do need to remember it's there when it's time to stop. Of course a camper is more top heavy and would handle differently. At any rate I'd be amazed (and disappointed) if the payload of an F350 srw cc 4x4 is anywhere near as low as 1200 lbs as one e-mail suggested. It would be good to contact Ford before deciding to sell a srw to get a drw to be sure that the camper you bought is really over weight for the truck. Both front and rear axles on the srw and drw F-350 4x4's are different brands. The FAWR for the front axles is the same for srw and drw and I think little is different between these axles other than the manufacturer. The RAWR for the drw F-350 is higher mostly due to tire capacity differences. However a dealer on this mail list kindly checked for me and found that the internals on the drw axles are also slightly heavier. The drw uses an additional gear in the carrier and the axle itself has a higher load capacity in addition to the extra tire capacity. Brakes on the srw and drw are identical front and rear. Since the same engines, transmissions, exhaust and cooling systems are used on the F-350 through F-550 I don't think you have any worries with regards to exhaust temperature, transmission temperature etc... The one exception is axle ratio, keep in mind that the highest ratio available in the (99) F-450 - 550 was a 4.88 while the F-350 could be anywhere from 4.30 to 3.73. This could make a difference in operating temperatures for the powertrain.....


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