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Please do not repost, forward or otherwise publish messages contained in these archives without consent from the respective author(s). These archives may not, in whole or part, be stored on any public retrieval system (FTP, web, gopher, newsgroup, etc.) by individuals or companies, without consent of the respective authors. Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list 97up-list); Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:48:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:48:58 -0500 (EST) From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server To: 97up-list digest users Reply-to: 97up-list  ford-trucks.com Subject: 97up-list Digest V2000 #34 Precedence: bulk ========================================================== Ford Truck Enthusiasts 1997 and Newer Truck Mailing List(Use the Small Chassis List for Rangers, Explorers, Aerostars and Bronco IIs. Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with the words "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the subject of the message. ========================================================== ------------------------------------ 97up-list Digest Tue, 21 Mar 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 034 In This Issue: Exhaust for the 2000 Powerstroke Re: Exhaust for the 2000 Powerstroke Re: K&N Re: K&N More horses, less RPM's Re: K&N Re: K&N Mirror Housing Help Diagnose PSD Whine Non trailer tow mirrors ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AFWDVM aol.com Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:52:56 EST Subject: Exhaust for the 2000 Powerstroke I have a 2000 F350 Powerstroke. Does anyone have a comment as to a cost effective larger aftermarket cat back exhaust system of 4" or larger diameter. Advice as to what chip to buy would be appreciated. Also, where to buy a two gauge pillar pod for an EGT and a boost gauge. Thanks. Alan Witter afwdvm aol.com ------------------------------ From: "Jeff Schapker" Subject: Re: Exhaust for the 2000 Powerstroke Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:04:37 -0600 I have the Banks Stinger on my truck. If you are wanting a chip and exhaust the Stinger gives you the total package. Check it out and you will like what you see. The price initially seems a little high but after you check out the quality and what actually comes in the kit you will see it is worth the money. The power is unbelievable plus I get right at 2 more miles per gallon. Here is the best place to buy aftermarket accessories for your truck. http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.dieselpage.com/index.shtml http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.dieselpage.com/fordps99s.htm Banks Stinger http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.dieselpage.com/art0119pm.htm picture of three gauge pillar like the one I have installed in my truck. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:13:10 -0700 From: Bill Funk Subject: Re: K&N Yes, as a matter fact, the laws of physics *DO* overcome what you are reporting. With a manual transmission, the air filter will have *NO* effext on the rpms at a given speed. The things that will affect that are the gear ratios in the transmission, and the rear end. Unless one or more of those are changed, the rpms at a given speed will remain thge same with a plugged air filter, a K&N air filter, or no air filter. The air filter simply can not affect the rpms the way you report. There's no need to feel insulted over being mistaken. We all make mistakes. The idea that it may take more throttle to achieve the same power output with a clogged air filter is valid. However, the clutch will still make a positive lock between the crankshaft and the transmission regardless of the state of the air filter, so the rpms won't change for a given speed. The fact that you are giving the engine more "gas" (when you obviously mean more throttle) will not affect the gear ratio, therefore it won't affect the rpms at a given speed. If it did, then when you give your engine more "gas" to climb a hill, the rpms would rise even though the speed remained the same, and they don't. While many claims have been made for K&N filters, this is the first time I've ever seen this one, and it simply isn't possible. Bill ORIGINAL MESSAGE: > Subject: Re: K&N > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:46:57 EST > > Well then, > I guess your laws of physics over come what my eye witness testimony tells > me and I guess you are calling me either a liar or an idiot. Either of > which would normally insult me but not this time, I can see that you are a > person that must see to believe. Well, it is my PERSONAL account of what > happened that before I put the K&N air filter in to my car(no other > modifications AT ALL), the RPM's were at about 2900-3000 at 60 mph, then I > installed the K&N air filter and the RPM's then dropped down to 2600-2700. > By the way, my car is a manual, so shifting into overdrive sooner is > irrelevant. > > I now have a thought for you to ponder. Imagine that you put some kind of > gadget that hinders the air flow to your throttle. Would it not take more > effort for that vehicle to reach a given state such as 60mph being that it > cannot breathe?(If you cover your mouth and nose so you cannot breathe, > doesn't your heart beat faster?) Well, if it does take more of an effort, > then would it not require you to give the vehicle more "gas"? Then you give > it more gas to reach 60mph, therefore increasing the RPM's to accomplish > your intended goal of 60MPH. Basically, if you have less resistance, you > can decrease your effort. 2900 RPM'S -> 2600 RPM'S > > Chris > > > > >I'm really sorry, but air filters do not change drive ratios. I can see if > >it > > > >is shifting into overdrive sooner, but I would think that would be more > >than > > > >300 rpm? I would love to hear how K&N defied the laws of physics. > > > >Bob > > > > >It just does. My 98 Ford Escort ZX2 did the same thing when I put a > > >K&N > >f>ilter in it. It dropped about 300 RPM's. > > > > > > > > > >Ok, silly question.. I thought that automatic transmission and torgue > > >converters locked up pretty solid at crusing speeds.. So, how is it > > >possible that changing an air filter, no matter how much more powerful > >it > > >makes the engine, could possibly change the engine rpm for a given > >crusing > > >speed? > > > > > > > > > > > > >Bob Lowell > >ljspop yahoo.com > > > > ______________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:43:22 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Lowell Subject: Re: K&N Hi Again, Chris, my apologies if my response seemed harsh, but your message of 'it just does' struck a chord - there is enough misinformation on the internet and in the maketing hype of aftermarket parts makers - I hate to see it spread knowing that logically what you were claiming makes no sense. I by no means meant to imply that you were lying or an idiot, just that what you saw is illogical. I currently have a K&N filter on my new to me '98 F150 4.6L 4x4 put on by the previous owner. I've avoided K&N in the past because of rumors/claims of ineffcient filtering compared to the paper elements. However, having done further research it seems a lot of these claims are based on tests (one in particular that was floating 'round the net... ) in really dusty environments - which my daily driving environment is not. It seems the only real way to test is to have your engine oil analyzed. Does anyone know where I could get an engine oil analysis done? If anyone knows I'd be willing to test K&N vs. Paper for filtering ability *in my driving environment* - oh, and RPM levels at a set rate of speed :-). Also, since I've never had a K&N, I'm not sure about proper care and maintenance - can anyone give me some pointers. Thanks in advance, Bob ===== Bob Lowell ljspop yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:28:51 -0500 Subject: More horses, less RPM's From: "Steve and Caryl Baron" What the heck: some years ago I paid some fifty bucks, I think, for some little gadget that went in between the gas intake and the carb, as I recall. I checked gas mileage for the next 10 or more fill-ups, and would swear that I'd increased my gas mileage by somewhere close to 10%. My old van averaged about 10 mpg. Those gadgets haven't been advertised for years, and I can't prove that it really did anything, but I believe to this day that it probably worked. But, maybe I just changed my driving style. I'll never know. I believe in the tooth fairy also. And Santa Claus. But, if someone who has a tachometer says tells me that, at a given speed, some alteration has improved his rpm's significantly, which I'll suspect relates to fuel economy, I'll believe him. Why not? You may blame it on the spring winds blowing a different direction. But, I read that changing from a small exhaust pipe to a bigger one will increase effective horses, why shouldn't increasing the air intake have some of the same benefits as increasing the exhaust output - or really, easing the strain of that output. Maybe someone has a good answer to that - I'm prepared to be called uneducated, if that is called for. If the answer is good, I'll be more educated. Steve Baron ------------------------------ From: "Christian Bagley" Subject: Re: K&N Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:49:08 EST Whatever man. It's over. Discussion is dead. Drop it. >Yes, as a matter fact, the laws of physics *DO* overcome what you are >reporting. >With a manual transmission, the air filter will have *NO* effext on the >rpms at a >given speed. The things that will affect that are the gear ratios in the >transmission, and the rear end. Unless one or more of those are changed, >the rpms >at a given speed will remain thge same with a plugged air filter, a K&N air >filter, or no air filter. The air filter simply can not affect the rpms the >way >you report. >There's no need to feel insulted over being mistaken. We all make mistakes. >The idea that it may take more throttle to achieve the same power output >with a >clogged air filter is valid. However, the clutch will still make a positive >lock >between the crankshaft and the transmission regardless of the state of the >air >filter, so the rpms won't change for a given speed. The fact that you are >giving >the engine more "gas" (when you obviously mean more throttle) will not >affect the >gear ratio, therefore it won't affect the rpms at a given speed. If it did, >then >when you give your engine more "gas" to climb a hill, the rpms would rise >even >though the speed remained the same, and they don't. > >While many claims have been made for K&N filters, this is the first time >I've ever >seen this one, and it simply isn't possible. >Bill > >ORIGINAL MESSAGE: > > > > Subject: Re: K&N > > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:46:57 EST > > > > Well then, > > I guess your laws of physics over come what my eye witness testimony >tells > > me and I guess you are calling me either a liar or an idiot. Either of > > which would normally insult me but not this time, I can see that you are >a > > person that must see to believe. Well, it is my PERSONAL account of >what > > happened that before I put the K&N air filter in to my car(no other > > modifications AT ALL), the RPM's were at about 2900-3000 at 60 mph, then >I > > installed the K&N air filter and the RPM's then dropped down to >2600-2700. > > By the way, my car is a manual, so shifting into overdrive sooner is > > irrelevant. > > > > I now have a thought for you to ponder. Imagine that you put some kind >of > > gadget that hinders the air flow to your throttle. Would it not take >more > > effort for that vehicle to reach a given state such as 60mph being that >it > > cannot breathe?(If you cover your mouth and nose so you cannot breathe, > > doesn't your heart beat faster?) Well, if it does take more of an >effort, > > then would it not require you to give the vehicle more "gas"? Then you >give > > it more gas to reach 60mph, therefore increasing the RPM's to accomplish > > your intended goal of 60MPH. Basically, if you have less resistance, >you > > can decrease your effort. 2900 RPM'S -> 2600 RPM'S > > > > Chris > > > > > > > >I'm really sorry, but air filters do not change drive ratios. I can >see if > > >it > > > > > >is shifting into overdrive sooner, but I would think that would be more > > >than > > > > > >300 rpm? I would love to hear how K&N defied the laws of physics. > > > > > >Bob > > > > > > >It just does. My 98 Ford Escort ZX2 did the same thing when I put a > > > >K&N > > >f>ilter in it. It dropped about 300 RPM's. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ok, silly question.. I thought that automatic transmission and torgue > > > >converters locked up pretty solid at crusing speeds.. So, how is it > > > >possible that changing an air filter, no matter how much more >powerful > > >it > > > >makes the engine, could possibly change the engine rpm for a given > > >crusing > > > >speed? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Bob Lowell > > >ljspop yahoo.com > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > >========================================================== >To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with >the words "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the subject of the >message. > ______________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: "Christian Bagley" Subject: Re: K&N Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:57:49 EST Bob, Thanks for the apologies. I also apologize if I was overly sensitive to your comment. No big deal. Anyway, as for the typical maintenance for a K&N air filter. It requires the K&N cleaner/recharge kit. I has instructions, they go something like this...rinse it from the inside out with water. Then let it dry and after it has dried, spray the oil very thin until the entire filter becomes red again, let it dry COMPLETELY and install. Over oiling it can cause damage to your MAF sensor. This happened to me. I just sprayed it with carb cleaner and also sprayed the throttle with it and it cleared up. >From: Bob Lowell >Reply-To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com >To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com >Subject: [97up-list] Re: K&N >Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:43:22 -0800 (PST) > >Hi Again, > >Chris, my apologies if my response seemed harsh, but >your message of 'it just does' struck a chord - there >is enough misinformation on the internet and in the >maketing hype of aftermarket parts makers - I hate to >see it spread knowing that logically what you were >claiming makes no sense. I by no means meant to imply >that you were lying or an idiot, just that what you >saw is illogical. > >I currently have a K&N filter on my new to me '98 >F150 4.6L 4x4 put on by the previous owner. I've >avoided K&N in the past because of rumors/claims of >ineffcient filtering compared to the paper elements. >However, having done further research it seems a lot >of these claims are based on tests (one in particular >that was floating 'round the net... ) in really dusty >environments - which my daily driving environment >is not. It seems the only real way to test is to >have your engine oil analyzed. Does anyone know >where I could get an engine oil analysis done? > >If anyone knows I'd be willing to test K&N vs. Paper >for filtering ability *in my driving environment* - >oh, and RPM levels at a set rate of speed :-). > >Also, since I've never had a K&N, I'm not sure about >proper care and maintenance - can anyone give me some >pointers. > >Thanks in advance, > >Bob > ______________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: JPatte5238 aol.com Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 01:21:42 EST Subject: Mirror Housing Dave, I have the housing and the mirror for the passenger side, but the plastic on the back is broken. If yours is still in tack, you can have mine for free + shipping. I just barely caught the mirror's edge, just enough to break off the back half. The back of the mirror comes off a special way, be careful. Or I can send you a JPEG if you like! John Patterson ------------------------------ From: "Scott Matus" Subject: Help Diagnose PSD Whine Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 07:37:58 PST I'm curious if anyone has noticed the same conditions as I with a 1999 PDS engine. I remember when my truck was new I had commented that, "the PSD is a 'whiney' engine." I mean that you could clearly hear the whine of the turbo at excelleration and especially decelleration. Lately, at 22,500 Miles, I either am immune to the sound or the engine is not producing the high pitched whine any longer. Am I not hearing things correctly or does the sound of the PSD change with time? Should I take it in for service? Please supply your interpretation of your vehicle. Much Appreciated! BTW - I have a 6-speed 4x4 Crewcab SRW, if that means anything. Scott. ______________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:49:29 +0100 Subject: Non trailer tow mirrors From: Kirk Werner I changed out my standard-issue, power mirrors for the TT models, so if anyone wants the non TT mirrors, let me know. The only catch is that they were color matched to my truck, and it's silver. Kirk ------------------------------ End of 97up-list Digest V2000 #34 ********************************* ---------------------------------------------------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts 1997 and Newer Truck List Send posts to 97up-list ford-trucks.comIf you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, send an email to: listar ford-trucks.comwith the words "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the subject of the message. Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com ---------------------------------------------------------- .... 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