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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list 97up-list); Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:48:58 -0500 (EST)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:48:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server ford-trucks.com>
To: 97up-list digest users ford-trucks.com>
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Subject: 97up-list Digest V2000 #34
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------------------------------------
97up-list Digest Tue, 21 Mar 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 034

In This Issue:
Exhaust for the 2000 Powerstroke
Re: Exhaust for the 2000 Powerstroke
Re: K&N
Re: K&N
More horses, less RPM's
Re: K&N
Re: K&N
Mirror Housing
Help Diagnose PSD Whine
Non trailer tow mirrors

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: AFWDVM aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:52:56 EST
Subject: Exhaust for the 2000 Powerstroke

I have a 2000 F350 Powerstroke.
Does anyone have a comment as to a cost effective larger aftermarket cat back
exhaust system of 4" or larger diameter.
Advice as to what chip to buy would be appreciated. Also, where to buy a two
gauge pillar pod for an EGT and a boost gauge.
Thanks.
Alan Witter
afwdvm aol.com

------------------------------

From: "Jeff Schapker" worldspy.net>
Subject: Re: Exhaust for the 2000 Powerstroke
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:04:37 -0600

I have the Banks Stinger on my truck. If you are wanting a chip and exhaust
the Stinger gives you the total package. Check it out and you will like what
you see. The price initially seems a little high but after you check out the
quality and what actually comes in the kit you will see it is worth the
money. The power is unbelievable plus I get right at 2 more miles per
gallon. Here is the best place to buy aftermarket accessories for your
truck.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.dieselpage.com/index.shtml
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.dieselpage.com/fordps99s.htm Banks Stinger
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.dieselpage.com/art0119pm.htm picture of three gauge pillar like
the one I have installed in my truck.




------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:13:10 -0700
From: Bill Funk uswest.net>
Subject: Re: K&N

Yes, as a matter fact, the laws of physics *DO* overcome what you are reporting.
With a manual transmission, the air filter will have *NO* effext on the rpms at a
given speed. The things that will affect that are the gear ratios in the
transmission, and the rear end. Unless one or more of those are changed, the rpms
at a given speed will remain thge same with a plugged air filter, a K&N air
filter, or no air filter. The air filter simply can not affect the rpms the way
you report.
There's no need to feel insulted over being mistaken. We all make mistakes.
The idea that it may take more throttle to achieve the same power output with a
clogged air filter is valid. However, the clutch will still make a positive lock
between the crankshaft and the transmission regardless of the state of the air
filter, so the rpms won't change for a given speed. The fact that you are giving
the engine more "gas" (when you obviously mean more throttle) will not affect the
gear ratio, therefore it won't affect the rpms at a given speed. If it did, then
when you give your engine more "gas" to climb a hill, the rpms would rise even
though the speed remained the same, and they don't.

While many claims have been made for K&N filters, this is the first time I've ever
seen this one, and it simply isn't possible.
Bill

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:


> Subject: Re: K&N
> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:46:57 EST
>
> Well then,
> I guess your laws of physics over come what my eye witness testimony tells
> me and I guess you are calling me either a liar or an idiot. Either of
> which would normally insult me but not this time, I can see that you are a
> person that must see to believe. Well, it is my PERSONAL account of what
> happened that before I put the K&N air filter in to my car(no other
> modifications AT ALL), the RPM's were at about 2900-3000 at 60 mph, then I
> installed the K&N air filter and the RPM's then dropped down to 2600-2700.
> By the way, my car is a manual, so shifting into overdrive sooner is
> irrelevant.
>
> I now have a thought for you to ponder. Imagine that you put some kind of
> gadget that hinders the air flow to your throttle. Would it not take more
> effort for that vehicle to reach a given state such as 60mph being that it
> cannot breathe?(If you cover your mouth and nose so you cannot breathe,
> doesn't your heart beat faster?) Well, if it does take more of an effort,
> then would it not require you to give the vehicle more "gas"? Then you give
> it more gas to reach 60mph, therefore increasing the RPM's to accomplish
> your intended goal of 60MPH. Basically, if you have less resistance, you
> can decrease your effort. 2900 RPM'S -> 2600 RPM'S
>
> Chris
>
> >
> >I'm really sorry, but air filters do not change drive ratios. I can see if
> >it
> >
> >is shifting into overdrive sooner, but I would think that would be more
> >than
> >
> >300 rpm? I would love to hear how K&N defied the laws of physics.
> >
> >Bob
> >
> > >It just does. My 98 Ford Escort ZX2 did the same thing when I put a
> > >K&N
> >f>ilter in it. It dropped about 300 RPM's.
> >
> >
> > >
> > >Ok, silly question.. I thought that automatic transmission and torgue
> > >converters locked up pretty solid at crusing speeds.. So, how is it
> > >possible that changing an air filter, no matter how much more powerful
> >it
> > >makes the engine, could possibly change the engine rpm for a given
> >crusing
> > >speed?
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Bob Lowell
> >ljspop yahoo.com
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:43:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Bob Lowell yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: K&N

Hi Again,

Chris, my apologies if my response seemed harsh, but
your message of 'it just does' struck a chord - there
is enough misinformation on the internet and in the
maketing hype of aftermarket parts makers - I hate to
see it spread knowing that logically what you were
claiming makes no sense. I by no means meant to imply
that you were lying or an idiot, just that what you
saw is illogical.

I currently have a K&N filter on my new to me '98
F150 4.6L 4x4 put on by the previous owner. I've
avoided K&N in the past because of rumors/claims of
ineffcient filtering compared to the paper elements.
However, having done further research it seems a lot
of these claims are based on tests (one in particular
that was floating 'round the net... ) in really dusty
environments - which my daily driving environment
is not. It seems the only real way to test is to
have your engine oil analyzed. Does anyone know
where I could get an engine oil analysis done?

If anyone knows I'd be willing to test K&N vs. Paper
for filtering ability *in my driving environment* -
oh, and RPM levels at a set rate of speed :-).

Also, since I've never had a K&N, I'm not sure about
proper care and maintenance - can anyone give me some
pointers.

Thanks in advance,

Bob



=====
Bob Lowell
ljspop yahoo.com



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://im.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:28:51 -0500
Subject: More horses, less RPM's
From: "Steve and Caryl Baron" rcn.com>

What the heck: some years ago I paid some fifty bucks, I think, for some
little gadget that went in between the gas intake and the carb, as I recall.
I checked gas mileage for the next 10 or more fill-ups, and would swear that
I'd increased my gas mileage by somewhere close to 10%. My old van averaged
about 10 mpg. Those gadgets haven't been advertised for years, and I can't
prove that it really did anything, but I believe to this day that it
probably worked. But, maybe I just changed my driving style. I'll never
know. I believe in the tooth fairy also. And Santa Claus.

But, if someone who has a tachometer says tells me that, at a given speed,
some alteration has improved his rpm's significantly, which I'll suspect
relates to fuel economy, I'll believe him. Why not? You may blame it on the
spring winds blowing a different direction. But, I read that changing from a
small exhaust pipe to a bigger one will increase effective horses, why
shouldn't increasing the air intake have some of the same benefits as
increasing the exhaust output - or really, easing the strain of that output.

Maybe someone has a good answer to that - I'm prepared to be called
uneducated, if that is called for. If the answer is good, I'll be more
educated.

Steve Baron

------------------------------

From: "Christian Bagley" hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: K&N
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:49:08 EST

Whatever man. It's over. Discussion is dead. Drop it.





>Yes, as a matter fact, the laws of physics *DO* overcome what you are
>reporting.
>With a manual transmission, the air filter will have *NO* effext on the
>rpms at a
>given speed. The things that will affect that are the gear ratios in the
>transmission, and the rear end. Unless one or more of those are changed,
>the rpms
>at a given speed will remain thge same with a plugged air filter, a K&N air
>filter, or no air filter. The air filter simply can not affect the rpms the
>way
>you report.
>There's no need to feel insulted over being mistaken. We all make mistakes.
>The idea that it may take more throttle to achieve the same power output
>with a
>clogged air filter is valid. However, the clutch will still make a positive
>lock
>between the crankshaft and the transmission regardless of the state of the
>air
>filter, so the rpms won't change for a given speed. The fact that you are
>giving
>the engine more "gas" (when you obviously mean more throttle) will not
>affect the
>gear ratio, therefore it won't affect the rpms at a given speed. If it did,
>then
>when you give your engine more "gas" to climb a hill, the rpms would rise
>even
>though the speed remained the same, and they don't.
>
>While many claims have been made for K&N filters, this is the first time
>I've ever
>seen this one, and it simply isn't possible.
>Bill
>
>ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
>
>
> > Subject: Re: K&N
> > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:46:57 EST
> >
> > Well then,
> > I guess your laws of physics over come what my eye witness testimony
>tells
> > me and I guess you are calling me either a liar or an idiot. Either of
> > which would normally insult me but not this time, I can see that you are
>a
> > person that must see to believe. Well, it is my PERSONAL account of
>what
> > happened that before I put the K&N air filter in to my car(no other
> > modifications AT ALL), the RPM's were at about 2900-3000 at 60 mph, then
>I
> > installed the K&N air filter and the RPM's then dropped down to
>2600-2700.
> > By the way, my car is a manual, so shifting into overdrive sooner is
> > irrelevant.
> >
> > I now have a thought for you to ponder. Imagine that you put some kind
>of
> > gadget that hinders the air flow to your throttle. Would it not take
>more
> > effort for that vehicle to reach a given state such as 60mph being that
>it
> > cannot breathe?(If you cover your mouth and nose so you cannot breathe,
> > doesn't your heart beat faster?) Well, if it does take more of an
>effort,
> > then would it not require you to give the vehicle more "gas"? Then you
>give
> > it more gas to reach 60mph, therefore increasing the RPM's to accomplish
> > your intended goal of 60MPH. Basically, if you have less resistance,
>you
> > can decrease your effort. 2900 RPM'S -> 2600 RPM'S
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > >
> > >I'm really sorry, but air filters do not change drive ratios. I can
>see if
> > >it
> > >
> > >is shifting into overdrive sooner, but I would think that would be more
> > >than
> > >
> > >300 rpm? I would love to hear how K&N defied the laws of physics.
> > >
> > >Bob
> > >
> > > >It just does. My 98 Ford Escort ZX2 did the same thing when I put a
> > > >K&N
> > >f>ilter in it. It dropped about 300 RPM's.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >Ok, silly question.. I thought that automatic transmission and torgue
> > > >converters locked up pretty solid at crusing speeds.. So, how is it
> > > >possible that changing an air filter, no matter how much more
>powerful
> > >it
> > > >makes the engine, could possibly change the engine rpm for a given
> > >crusing
> > > >speed?
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Bob Lowell
> > >ljspop yahoo.com
> > >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________
>
>==========================================================
>To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
>the words "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the subject of the
>message.
>

______________________________________________________


------------------------------

From: "Christian Bagley" hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: K&N
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:57:49 EST

Bob,

Thanks for the apologies. I also apologize if I was overly sensitive to
your comment. No big deal.

Anyway, as for the typical maintenance for a K&N air filter. It requires
the K&N cleaner/recharge kit. I has instructions, they go something like
this...rinse it from the inside out with water. Then let it dry and after
it has dried, spray the oil very thin until the entire filter becomes red
again, let it dry COMPLETELY and install. Over oiling it can cause damage
to your MAF sensor. This happened to me. I just sprayed it with carb
cleaner and also sprayed the throttle with it and it cleared up.

>From: Bob Lowell yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>Subject: [97up-list] Re: K&N
>Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:43:22 -0800 (PST)
>
>Hi Again,
>
>Chris, my apologies if my response seemed harsh, but
>your message of 'it just does' struck a chord - there
>is enough misinformation on the internet and in the
>maketing hype of aftermarket parts makers - I hate to
>see it spread knowing that logically what you were
>claiming makes no sense. I by no means meant to imply
>that you were lying or an idiot, just that what you
>saw is illogical.
>
>I currently have a K&N filter on my new to me '98
>F150 4.6L 4x4 put on by the previous owner. I've
>avoided K&N in the past because of rumors/claims of
>ineffcient filtering compared to the paper elements.
>However, having done further research it seems a lot
>of these claims are based on tests (one in particular
>that was floating 'round the net... ) in really dusty
>environments - which my daily driving environment
>is not. It seems the only real way to test is to
>have your engine oil analyzed. Does anyone know
>where I could get an engine oil analysis done?
>
>If anyone knows I'd be willing to test K&N vs. Paper
>for filtering ability *in my driving environment* -
>oh, and RPM levels at a set rate of speed :-).
>
>Also, since I've never had a K&N, I'm not sure about
>proper care and maintenance - can anyone give me some
>pointers.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Bob
>

______________________________________________________


------------------------------

From: JPatte5238 aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 01:21:42 EST
Subject: Mirror Housing

Dave,

I have the housing and the mirror for the passenger side, but the plastic on
the back is broken. If yours is still in tack, you can have mine for free +
shipping. I just barely caught the mirror's edge, just enough to break off
the back half. The back of the mirror comes off a special way, be careful.
Or I can send you a JPEG if you like!

John Patterson


------------------------------

From: "Scott Matus" hotmail.com>
Subject: Help Diagnose PSD Whine
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 07:37:58 PST

I'm curious if anyone has noticed the same conditions as I with a 1999 PDS
engine.

I remember when my truck was new I had commented that, "the PSD is a
'whiney' engine." I mean that you could clearly hear the whine of the turbo
at excelleration and especially decelleration.

Lately, at 22,500 Miles, I either am immune to the sound or the engine is
not producing the high pitched whine any longer.

Am I not hearing things correctly or does the sound of the PSD change with
time? Should I take it in for service?

Please supply your interpretation of your vehicle. Much Appreciated!

BTW - I have a 6-speed 4x4 Crewcab SRW, if that means anything.

Scott.
______________________________________________________


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:49:29 +0100
Subject: Non trailer tow mirrors
From: Kirk Werner Werner.org>

I changed out my standard-issue, power mirrors for the TT models, so if
anyone wants the non TT mirrors, let me know. The only catch is that they
were color matched to my truck, and it's silver.

Kirk


------------------------------

End of 97up-list Digest V2000 #34
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