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Please do not repost, forward or otherwise publish messages contained in these archives without consent from the respective author(s). These archives may not, in whole or part, be stored on any public retrieval system (FTP, web, gopher, newsgroup, etc.) by individuals or companies, without consent of the respective authors. Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list 97up-list); Fri, 11 Feb 2000 19:05:08 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 19:05:08 -0500 (EST) From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server To: 97up-list digest users Reply-to: 97up-list  ford-trucks.com Subject: 97up-list Digest V2000 #3 Precedence: bulk ========================================================== Ford Truck Enthusiasts 1997 and Newer Truck Mailing List(Use the Small Chassis List for Rangers, Explorers, Aerostars and Bronco IIs. Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with the words "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the subject of the message. ========================================================== ------------------------------------ 97up-list Digest Thu, 10 Feb 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 003 In This Issue: Re: Oil Change ATF Re: Oil Change ATF when to use 4x4 mode ESOF tire and wheel balance Re: when to use 4x4 mode Re: tire and wheel balance tires and SSN help Re: Oil Change Re: Oil Change...long post Re: tire and wheel balance Re: Oil Change Re: Kick Plates Re: Bumpers, Receivers, Winches Re: Oil Change Re: tires and SSN help Re: tire and wheel balance AIR HORNS Re: when to use 4x4 mode Re: AIR HORNS Oil Dip Stick Re: tire and wheel balance Re: when to use 4x4 mode ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Veren" Subject: Re: Oil Change Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:38:53 -0500 Sounds like Nathan may be at the other end of the scale. Lots of short strips where the engine does not get heated up enough. I doubt if Nathan would drive across the country from Washington DC to Los Angeles, (with a fresh oil and filter change to begin the trip he would stop in Colorado or Utah to change his oil. When running long trips, oil can be surprisingly long-lasting, especially synthetics. However, if you start your car, drive 4 miles, turn it off and repeat that same trip twice a day, you oil will soon be contaminated with lots of gasoline, water, acidity, and volatile combustion products that do not ever have a change to evaporate away. In cases like this (often seen with teachers that live near school, and Doctors that live near hospitals) I would probably recommend changing oil at least every 2,000 to at most 3,000 miles, and not use synthetic (unless your wallet is perpetually full!). Keith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hunter" To: <97up-list ford-trucks.com> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 3:02 PM Subject: [97up-list] Re: Oil Change > WOW 2000 mile, if I did my math right and your truck take 6 qt. $5 each for synthetic. > That's close to $1000 for me. + gas + INS. + brake +...etc. I would've never drove a > car or truck. I thought our trucks should be 100,000 for tune-up and you need to > change it around 4000 mile with 5w-30. > > Nathan, > Let me know when you want to sell your truck...:o) > > Hunter > > > >I'd advise against going that long on an oil changer (or start saving for > > >repair bills). A taxi starts in the morning and shuts off at night so its > > >oil change interval would be much different than the normal driver. I > > >change my oil every 2000 miles (and use synthetic). > > > > > >Nathan Bernard > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://im.yahoo.com > ========================================================== > To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with > the words "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the body of the > message. > ------------------------------ From: "Scott Matus" Subject: ATF Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 18:18:01 PST ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 16:15:25 -0800 Subject: Re: 4R100 drain plug From: Rob Bryan No...the 4R100 takes Mercon (aka Dextron II), the 4R70W uses Mercon V which is much harder to find (especially in a synthetic that doesn't cost $8/qt like the Redline stuff). FWIW, the 4R100 on my dad's '99 5.4L Expedition has a drain plug on the pan.Rob >From: jmann living.com> Reply-To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com ______________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: MFAPHOTO aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:24:08 EST Subject: Re: Oil Change OK guys. I'm changing my oil this week whether I need it or not. Better to be safe than sorry! Russ Martin 2000 F150 4X4 5.4L Lariat ------------------------------ From: "Scott Matus" Subject: ATF Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 18:26:42 PST Sorry, about the last message. I'm using my wife's crap IBM laptop. Oh, give me a good Toshiba any day. Amsoil ATF is rated to the following standards: GM Dexron III Allison C-4 Ford Mercon (all) Chrysler And it does not cost $8.00 Qt. More like $2.90 Qt. Scott. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 16:15:25 -0800 Subject: Re: 4R100 drain plug From: Rob Bryan No...the 4R100 takes Mercon (aka Dextron II), the 4R70W uses Mercon V which is much harder to find (especially in a synthetic that doesn't cost $8/qt like the Redline stuff). FWIW, the 4R100 on my dad's '99 5.4L Expedition has a drain plug on the pan. Rob >From: jmann living.com> Reply-To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com ______________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: RCantu aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:32:22 EST Subject: when to use 4x4 mode Hi guys my manual reads to not drive on "dry hard surfaces" which means the road. I obviously know to use it when driving through mud, dirt, snow but what about wet roads? thanks Robert ------------------------------ From: "Robert Benne" Subject: ESOF Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:33:30 -0700 Friend of mine in another state just had his ESOF go bad at 37,000 miles on his SD 250 4X4. According to him this is not unusual. Cost was $550 to fix and said his dealer stated that using ESOF on the fly would result in stripped hub gears and that it is a known problem with SD Fords!! I know from watching this list that we have a little of everything here - 5th wheelers, snow plow people, off-roaders and just plain drivers, so how 'bout it?? Anyone have a problem with their ESOF and any dealer feedback??? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:54:45 +0100 Subject: tire and wheel balance From: "Kirk Werner" When I bought my F350 CC new in October, the dealer had added oversized tires (Goodyear Wrangler AT/S, 30575R16) on the stock Lariat rims. They look like they fit the rims fine- there's no crowning as is evident on tires that have been mounted on rims which are smaller than ideal. The problem is that they bounce real noticeably between 40-45 (you can feel the bounce in the seat- so it's not a front end shimmy). I had the service dept (a full-service "Ford Store") balance them twice, with no improvement. The second time they basically told me that because they were oversized they'd have that tendency, and plus being a long wheelbase truck I would notice any bounce moreso than on a standard vehicle. I say BS to both. A longer wheelbase will decrease the noticeability of any bumpiness in the ride- it's short wheelbase vehicles which are choppier riding. I've also had oversize tires before and that in and of itself is not a good justification for the bounce. My hunch is that either all or one of the tires are bad, or they do not balance them properly. I know tires can be "bad" because I once bought a set of four, and they ended up replacing two of them because they could not get them balanced on the rims. I've also heard tell that the only way to get a true balance is to balance them while they're still on the truck. Anyone else have these tires and have any problems? Kirk ------------------------------ From: RCantu aol.com Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:40:38 EST Subject: Re: when to use 4x4 mode thanks for the response. I appreciatet the help. Robert In a message dated 2/10/00 7:54:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, jmann living.com writes: << I've used mine on went pavement before. But not on a continuos basis and mainly on straight. It's great for getting away from lights on wet pavement. Let's just say that turns on dry pavement are a BAD thing! I believe when the truck is in 4x4 mode the diffs get locked, or something. But lets wait for a more expert opinion. >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:23:18 -0700 From: David & Laura Manuel Subject: Re: tire and wheel balance I have the same tires with XLT rims on my 2000 SD 250, CC, Longbed. I don't notice any of those problems. ------------------------------ From: "joel taylor" Subject: tires and SSN help Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 03:51:50 PST Hello all! I was wondering if anyone knew of the difference between the BFG all-terrain and the BFG all terrain KO series. Are these tires any good? Also, could someone please send me that SSN for the power brake booster switch? I missed it when it was posted last. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. Joel in NJ ______________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: "Jason Holmes" Subject: Re: Oil Change Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 04:14:12 PST I see and have received enlightenment. Thank you. >From: "Keith Veren" >Reply-To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com>To: <97up-list ford-trucks.com>>Subject: [97up-list] Re: Oil Change >Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:50:19 -0500 > >Wrong. It's just the opposite. The killer of oil is short runs where the >oil does not get hot enough to evaporate all the water and acid -gas >byproducts that form during the first 15 minutes after starting. After an >engine is running at the proper temperature, the blow-by is well reduced, >the water vapor input into the crankcase is just about eliminated, and the >contaminating acid-gases cannot condense on the cylinder walls and >contaminate the lubricating film. Kind of like certain electrical >equipment >that lasts much longer if always left on because the wear is caused by >thermal cycles, not static warmth. > >Keith > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jason Holmes" >To: <97up-list ford-trucks.com>>Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 2:00 PM >Subject: [97up-list] Re: Oil Change > > > > I mean no offense, but your logic seems faulted. If a taxi has constant >use > > (moreso than the normal driver) the change frequency would be sooner not > > later. Conversely, if one does not put a heavy strain on the engine (or >oil) > > the time between changes would increase. > > > > > > > > >From: "Union Auto" > > > > > >I'd advise against going that long on an oil changer (or start saving >for > > >repair bills). A taxi starts in the morning and shuts off at night so >its > > >oil change interval would be much different than the normal driver. I > > >change my oil every 2000 miles (and use synthetic). > > > > > >Nathan Bernard > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > > > > > ========================================================== > > To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with> > the words "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the body of the > > message. > > > >========================================================== >To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with>the words "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the body of the >message. > ______________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: "Jason Holmes" Subject: Re: Oil Change...long post Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 04:18:59 PST I thank you for the insights. Did not realize the intrusion of water (and gas-byproducts according to a previous post) became factors. >From: Glenn S See >Reply-To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com>To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com>Subject: [97up-list] Re: Oil Change...long post >Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:12:49 -0600 > ><<<....... if one does not put a heavy strain on the engine (or oil) >the time between changes would increase....>>> > >If stress and strain were the only factors affecting engine wear then the >above statement would be substantially correct. However, other factors, >primarily thermal cycling of the engine and ambient humidity >fluctuations, will affect the purity, and therefore the lubricating and >preservative qualities, of the oil. > >Beyond the obvious expansion and contraction of parts due to temperature >changes (which can initiate metal fatigue by itself), each time the >engine cools down after use an amount of moisture laden air is drawn into >the engine. This moisture will produce contaminants by reacting with >bare metal surfaces, wear products on the metal surfaces, and wear >products in the oil. Eventually these contaminants will affect the >ability of the oil to lubricate and protect the engine components, >regardless of how "efficient" the filtering system is (better filtration >can lengthen the time to oil "breakdown" but not prevent the eventual >loss of oil quality and purity). > >This moisture interaction occurs in all rotating machinery, even greased >bearings and "sealed" bearings and is considered to be leading cause of >"random" bearing failures in industry. There are no perfect seals. > >The idea was mentioned in earlier posts....theoretically, if you could >run your engine continuously, with adequate filtration, the engine life >(and oil life) would be substantially longer than if you ran the engine >for short periods frequently. > >Also, even if you did not run the engine, the daily/seasonal fluctuations >in ambient humidity are enough to cause moisture intrusion in machinery >and damage rotating component surfaces. Nature works in insidious ways. >This is a primary reason manufacturers include a time factor in their >schedules for oil changes. > >This moisture intrusion phenomena is not my personal theory, but was >related to me by a retired Exxon employee who was their lead engineer on >rotating machinery with several decades experience in the field of >lubrication science. > >Bottom line, you can't change the oil too often. It becomes an economic >decision how often. It should be noted that oil condition is only one >variable in engine wear. Personally, I change the oil in my '98 F-150 >every 3000 miles (as recommended for "severe" service in the service >manual). > >Submitted to offer some additional insight into lubrication theory. > >Steve >========================================================== >To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with>the words "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the body of the >message. > ______________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: "Zinski, Steve" Subject: Re: tire and wheel balance Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:46:37 -0500 I think what the dealer was trying to tell you is that on a longer wheelbase vehicle there is more of a tendency to "bounce" due to the slight flexing of the frame. On shorter wheelbase vehicles, the frame is much shorter and therefore more rigid. --Steve -----Original Message----- From: Kirk Werner [mailto:kirk werner.org]Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 2:55 PM To: 97up-list ford-trucks.comSubject: [97up-list] tire and wheel balance When I bought my F350 CC new in October, the dealer had added oversized tires (Goodyear Wrangler AT/S, 30575R16) on the stock Lariat rims. They look like they fit the rims fine- there's no crowning as is evident on tires that have been mounted on rims which are smaller than ideal. The problem is that they bounce real noticeably between 40-45 (you can feel the bounce in the seat- so it's not a front end shimmy). I had the service dept (a full-service "Ford Store") balance them twice, with no improvement. The second time they basically told me that because they were oversized they'd have that tendency, and plus being a long wheelbase truck I would notice any bounce moreso than on a standard vehicle. I say BS to both. A longer wheelbase will decrease the noticeability of any bumpiness in the ride- it's short wheelbase vehicles which are choppier riding. I've also had oversize tires before and that in and of itself is not a good justification for the bounce. My hunch is that either all or one of the tires are bad, or they do not balance them properly. I know tires can be "bad" because I once bought a set of four, and they ended up replacing two of them because they could not get them balanced on the rims. I've also heard tell that the only way to get a true balance is to balance them while they're still on the truck. Anyone else have these tires and have any problems? Kirk ------------------------------ From: jmann living.comSubject: Re: Oil Change Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:15:43 -0600 Well, with that said let's talk a bit about these time/distance/temperature perimeters. For example, my daily commute is 15 miles one way and can take 15 to 30 minutes to complete and usually averages about 25 minutes of driving time. During the typical morning and evening workday drives there can me lots of stop/slow and go driving. So. Average drive: Distance: 15 miles Drive time: 25 minutes Time operating temp: 15-18 minutesDriving condition: stop and go traffic on a Freeway Average ambient temp: 65 degree Oil Change interval?: anyone,...anyone I'm guessing, 3000 miles or greater on Synthetic. I don't know what sort of tech tips Ken has on the site, but maybe we could agree on, and develop, driving profiles with matching oil change intervals for a tech page on Oil Changing. Just an idea. Joe -----Original Message----- From: Keith Veren [mailto:Spectrum-EHS worldnet.att.net]Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 1:50 PM To: 97up-list ford-trucks.comSubject: [97up-list] Re: Oil Change Wrong. It's just the opposite. The killer of oil is short runs where the oil does not get hot enough to evaporate all the water and acid -gas byproducts that form during the first 15 minutes after starting. After an engine is running at the proper temperature, the blow-by is well reduced, the water vapor input into the crankcase is just about eliminated, and the contaminating acid-gases cannot condense on the cylinder walls and contaminate the lubricating film. Kind of like certain electrical equipment that lasts much longer if always left on because the wear is caused by thermal cycles, not static warmth. Keith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Holmes" To: <97up-list ford-trucks.com>Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 2:00 PM Subject: [97up-list] Re: Oil Change > I mean no offense, but your logic seems faulted. If a taxi has constant use > (moreso than the normal driver) the change frequency would be sooner not > later. Conversely, if one does not put a heavy strain on the engine (or oil) > the time between changes would increase. > > > > >From: "Union Auto" > > > >I'd advise against going that long on an oil changer (or start saving for > >repair bills). A taxi starts in the morning and shuts off at night so its > >oil change interval would be much different than the normal driver. I > >change my oil every 2000 miles (and use synthetic). > > > >Nathan Bernard > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > > ========================================================== > To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with> the words "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the body of the > message. > ========================================================== To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com withthe words "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the body of the message. ------------------------------ From: davesomers Subject: Re: Kick Plates Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:55:08 -0500 Well I can't help with a replacement for the plastic (assuming you have a SuperDuty), but I can help protect the sheetmetal that's just below it. (for me that's the part that gets the boot dragged across it on the way in) DeeZee calls them Kick Plates. I know that they are available in Brite Tread (diamondplate aluminum) (DZ part# 900). This is a generic part for most pickups. I don't know what other styles they come in. I had them on my Suburban and they stood up to 10 years of abuse (including the dog's chain dragging over it everyday when he got in and out). One note I had with my 99 CrewCab - the front doorsill is longer than the Kick Plate , and the back doorsill is shorter. The amount that I had to cut off the back would have been about right to add to the front, but I didn't want the seam. I installed it at the front, where the feet travel, and it doesn't look too short. I went out and looked at the truck, and it looks like they MIGHT be able to be installed on top of the plastic too. I'd suggest finding a DeeZee dealer and getting one to hold up and see if it would work. Another idea (the one I would use if I was worried about the plastic) would be to find a local sheet metal place that can bend a piece of aluminum for you - create a larger one piece unit that starts at the inside of the plastic, then wraps down the whole face. That could be secured better so it won't get kicked off. ------------------------------ From: davesomers Subject: Re: Bumpers, Receivers, Winches Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:12:38 -0500 (there since I get the digest, I'm replying to several at once here) >significant emotional event when you try to un-stick your 6000-plus pound >beast, sunk up to the axles in mud, and the receiver fails. (You can >actually load a winch with up to 150% of your vehicle's weight when it's >stuck bad.) Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, and you won't run into >problems during "routine" use, but it could also fail when you need it most. I think that the potential load is even greater. There's a long story that goes with this, but the short of it is that I stalled the XD9000 with the cable doubled back (18000# theoretical). It was my (fully loaded-8000#) Suburban sitting on its frame and axles on frozen ground (wheels were in the air in the tracks created by a construction truck-The ruts were 3' deep when the ice broke and I fell in) I would agree that you should size the winch at least 1.5 times truck weight for self recovery. Of course, having said that, even a 12K is undersized for this truck > --How much do you need for trailer to pull on? Some of the smaller ones >should do the trick. The limits on the receiver winches were not so much the weight limit - it's more of a design problem with the trailer needing to be connected at the same time. >The bumpers (Ranchhand) are a nice piece i know of two friends in south TX that have >them , they love them, I have seen them their tough. Great for those >unexpected animals or whatever. Their are a few other companies that make >them i have researched since i probably will be buying one sometime, they >just dont seem to measure up. You probably wont see them anywhere up that >was as most people really dont know about them. I called my cousin in OK, and he's seen and liked them too. They are definitely in the running for the front end. Does anybody else have any other brands of winch bumpers to throw into the conversation? (99SD PSD) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 07:14:28 -0800 From: Ralph Lindberg Subject: Re: Oil Change >Well, with that said let's talk a bit about these time/distance/temperature >perimeters. >.... >Oil Change interval?: anyone,...anyone > >I'm guessing, 3000 miles or greater on Synthetic. > In many ways this profile is so close to a 'normal' use that it's a good benchmark. IMHO 3000 for 'normal' oil, a full 6000 for synth -or- 6 months (lets not leave that part out) This oil change stuff comes up a lot, the RV groups, the driving groups, etc, etc, etc. From my filter (snicker) ie taking out people that change oil way to often, like Nathan (sorry guy) and a co-worker that uses synth and never changes his oil (just the filter and whatever he spills) and then refills. My feeling is that for normal driving changing oil per Ford is the sound idea (6000 mi or 6 months). EXCEPT, since many of use use our vehicles harder then that (short trips, towing, parked a lot) we should change oil at 3000 miles, or 6000 for syn, or 6 months. So that's my opinion, for what ever it's worth Ralph Lindberg ICQ 5988954 RV and Camping FAQ Just because MS-Window's holds 90% of the market doesn't mean it's superior. Remember 90% of all animals are insects. ------------------------------ From: RSnovi aol.comDate: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 13:25:42 EST Subject: Re: tires and SSN help In a message dated 2/11/00 6:52:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, taylorjn hotmail.com writes:they have the side bite on KO BFG all terrains, probably does help out some when it gets gummy. RS << Hello all! I was wondering if anyone knew of the difference between the BFG all-terrain and the BFG all terrain KO series. Are these tires any good? Also, could someone please send me that SSN for the power brake booster switch? I missed it when it was posted last. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. Joel in NJ __________________________________________ >> ------------------------------ From: RSnovi aol.comDate: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 13:25:43 EST Subject: Re: tire and wheel balance In a message dated 2/10/00 11:51:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, kirk werner.orgwrites: i think thats just the way it is , alot of tire for that rim size. I know my Xcab F250 PSD does a little bit whenever you jump a curb or whatever is in the way. RS << When I bought my F350 CC new in October, the dealer had added oversized tires (Goodyear Wrangler AT/S, 30575R16) on the stock Lariat rims. They look like they fit the rims fine- there's no crowning as is evident on tires that have been mounted on rims which are smaller than ideal. The problem is that they bounce real noticeably between 40-45 (you can feel the bounce in the seat- so it's not a front end shimmy). I had the service dept (a full-service "Ford Store") balance them twice, with no improvement. The second time they basically told me that because they were oversized they'd have that tendency, and plus being a long wheelbase truck I would notice any bounce moreso than on a standard vehicle. I say BS to both. A longer wheelbase will decrease the noticeability of any bumpiness in the ride- it's short wheelbase vehicles which are choppier riding. I've also had oversize tires before and that in and of itself is not a good justification for the bounce. My hunch is that either all or one of the tires are bad, or they do not balance them properly. I know tires can be "bad" because I once bought a set of four, and they ended up replacing two of them because they could not get them balanced on the rims. I've also heard tell that the only way to get a true balance is to balance them while they're still on the truck. Anyone else have these tires and have any problems? >> ------------------------------ From: "Douglas Petschow" Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:04:04 -0500 Subject: AIR HORNS Any ideas where I can get air horns for my F250SD? Also how much do they run and where are the best places to install them? Will they fit under the hood for example or is it just best to put them on top of the truck? TIA! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:10:40 -0700 From: Alan Bowes Subject: Re: when to use 4x4 mode In terms of the amount of stress that builds up in your drivetrain as a result of using four-wheel drive, the key question is "How much stress is safe or practical." There's really no clear answer. A part-time 4x4 system (with no center differential in the transfer case) will always build up stress in the drivetrain when driving with the hubs engaged and the transfer case in the four-wheel-drive position. The amount of stress is limited by the point at which the tires begin to slip (or traction), which you could call the "fuse" in the circuit. NOTE: Even when driving straight ahead, the front tires and rear tires never turn "exactly" the same number of revolutions over a given distance. Even if there is only a fraction of a revolution difference per mile, you will eventually build up just as much stress as if you were making turns. Maximum stress is built up as soon as the difference in rotation between the front and rear axles is enough to exceed the amount of play in the drivetrain components and the amount of flex in the tire treads and drivetrain component mounts...as limited by tire traction. The only difference is that it requires a longer distance to build up to maximum driveline stress when going straight ahead in four-wheel drive than when making turns. And it would not necessarily be a very long distance, either, perhaps only several hundred feet, maybe more, maybe less, depending on the road surface, variation in tire diameter, wheel alignment specs, etc. On the other hand, doing a lot of turning while in four-wheel drive will cause the loading/unloading of drivetrain stress to occur more frequently, so there could be a fatigue factor involved. The reason that stress builds up more quickly when making turns in four-wheel drive is because in a turn the front tires inscribe a larger arc than the rear tires (due to some understeer designed into the steering geometry). In other words, the front tires travel a significantly longer distance in a turn. If you want to see what the difference is, make a tight turn in some fresh snow and have a look at the tracks you left. Here's a VERY approximate sliding scale of driveline stress conditions, based on surfaces: -- On dry pavement, the stress level may be very high -- On wet pavement, the stress level may be moderate to moderately high. -- On dry packed dirt or hard-packed gravel, the stress level may be moderate to low. -- On soft dirt or gravel, the stress level may be low. -- On mud or sand, the stress level may be very low. -- On snow or ice, the stress level may be extremely low. Keep in mind that there are LARGE variations in traction within each of the above categories. For example, a certain type of rough wet pavement might provide a lot more traction than glassy-smooth wet pavement. Some people like to use four-wheel drive on wet pavement...your decision. Another factor that will influence drivetrain stress is the load that the vehicle is carrying. If there is a lot of weight in the bed of a pickup truck, you can build up a lot more stress in the driveline in four-wheel drive, since it is usually the rear tires that will slip first if the bed is empty. Another factor is a limited-slip or locking differential. Another factor is the tire itself (tread pattern, tire size, pressure, condition, rubber composition, temperature, etc.) Generally speaking, as traction conditions worsen, there will be less stress on the driveline as the result of using four-wheel drive...AND greater benefits from using four-wheel drive. The decision as to when to use four-wheel drive is entirely yours. As I recall, the basic owner's manual seems to give pretty good general advice on this matter. And a word of advice in closing: Don't get overconfident when in four-wheel drive. It could be disastrous. Alan > In a message dated 2/10/00 7:54:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, jmann living.com> writes: > > << I've used mine on went pavement before. But not on a continuos basis and > mainly on straight. It's great for getting away from lights on wet pavement. > Let's just say that turns on dry pavement are a BAD thing! I believe when > the truck is in 4x4 mode the diffs get locked, or something. But lets wait > for a more expert opinion. ------------------------------ From: "Christian Bagley" Subject: Re: AIR HORNS Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 15:06:47 EST I know the F150 is different from your truck but I installed 5 air horns on the back side of my front bumper. This may also be a good place for your truck. Chris >Any ideas where I can get air horns for my F250SD? Also how much do they >run >and where are the best places to install them? Will they fit under the >hood for >example or is it just best to put them on top of the truck? TIA! ______________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: "Dave Shaffer" Subject: Oil Dip Stick Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 16:01:55 -0500 I have a '97 F-150 with a 4.2L-V6. My owners manuel shows the dipstick for my engine as a flat 'blade' type according to the picture. It also shows the dipstick for the V-8's as a 'cable' type with what appears to be a 1/4" round piece of metal at the bottom with a min - max level on it. My question is..... which is correct? In my truck I do have the cable type dipstick.....but the owners manual says I should have the blade type dipstick. Can anyone shed some info on this for me? Do I have the wrong dipstick in my engine? Thanks, Dave Shaffer ------------------------------ From: "Steve J. Hodson" Subject: Re: tire and wheel balance Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:02:12 -0500 Try a different shop. First ask them to check the tires to see if they run true. (out of round or sidewall variations are possible) -----Original Message----- From: RSnovi aol.com To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com <97up-listford-trucks.com>Date: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:23 PM Subject: [97up-list] Re: tire and wheel balance >In a message dated 2/10/00 11:51:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, kirk werner.org>writes: > > >i think thats just the way it is , alot of tire for that rim size. I know my >Xcab F250 PSD does a little bit whenever you jump a curb or whatever is in >the way. > >RS ><< > > When I bought my F350 CC new in October, the dealer had added oversized > tires (Goodyear Wrangler AT/S, 30575R16) on the stock Lariat rims. They look > like they fit the rims fine- there's no crowning as is evident on tires that > have been mounted on rims which are smaller than ideal. The problem is that > they bounce real noticeably between 40-45 (you can feel the bounce in the > seat- so it's not a front end shimmy). I had the service dept (a > full-service "Ford Store") balance them twice, with no improvement. The > second time they basically told me that because they were oversized they'd > have that tendency, and plus being a long wheelbase truck I would notice any > bounce moreso than on a standard vehicle. I say BS to both. A longer > wheelbase will decrease the noticeability of any bumpiness in the ride- it's > short wheelbase vehicles which are choppier riding. I've also had oversize > tires before and that in and of itself is not a good justification for the > bounce. My hunch is that either all or one of the tires are bad, or they do > not balance them properly. I know tires can be "bad" because I once bought a > set of four, and they ended up replacing two of them because they could not > get them balanced on the rims. I've also heard tell that the only way to get > a true balance is to balance them while they're still on the truck. > > Anyone else have these tires and have any problems? > >> >========================================================== >To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with>the words "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the body of the >message. > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:58:49 -0500 From: Karen Wall / Steve Offiler Subject: Re: when to use 4x4 mode Alan's explanation and advice (below) is truly excellent. I have one minor point to add. There seemed to be a question in the original post as to why the stress builds up in the driveline. The answer is that a "part-time" 4WD system has no center differential. Meaning, the front and rear axles are locked together and forced to rotate at exactly the same speed when in 4WD mode. Then, as Alan points out, the driveline experiences stresses (potentially damaging stresses) when the vehicle undergoes conditions that have the front wheels turning at different speeds than the rears. This happens to an extreme during turns and to a lesser degree when heading in a straight line. But in 4WD the axles are locked and they must turn at exactly the same speed. The only slippage that can possibly occur to relieve the stresses is at the contact patch between tire and road - or you can break gear teeth in the transfer case. At 12:10 PM 2/11/00 -0700, Alan Bowes wrote: >In terms of the amount of stress that builds up in your drivetrain as a result of >using four-wheel drive, the key question is "How much stress is safe or >practical." > >There's really no clear answer. A part-time 4x4 system (with no center >differential in the transfer case) will always build up stress in the drivetrain >when driving with the hubs engaged and the transfer case in the four-wheel-drive >position. The amount of stress is limited by the point at which the tires begin >to slip (or traction), which you could call the "fuse" in the circuit. > >NOTE: Even when driving straight ahead, the front tires and rear tires never >turn "exactly" the same number of revolutions over a given distance. Even if >there is only a fraction of a revolution difference per mile, you will eventually >build up just as much stress as if you were making turns. Maximum stress is built >up as soon as the difference in rotation between the front and rear axles is >enough to exceed the amount of play in the drivetrain components and the amount >of flex in the tire treads and drivetrain component mounts...as limited by tire >traction. The only difference is that it requires a longer distance to build up >to maximum driveline stress when going straight ahead in four-wheel drive than >when making turns. And it would not necessarily be a very long distance, either, >perhaps only several hundred feet, maybe more, maybe less, depending on the road >surface, variation in tire diameter, wheel alignment specs, etc. > >On the other hand, doing a lot of turning while in four-wheel drive will cause >the loading/unloading of drivetrain stress to occur more frequently, so there >could be a fatigue factor involved. > >The reason that stress builds up more quickly when making turns in four-wheel >drive is because in a turn the front tires inscribe a larger arc than the rear >tires (due to some understeer designed into the steering geometry). In other >words, the front tires travel a significantly longer distance in a turn. If you >want to see what the difference is, make a tight turn in some fresh snow and have >a look at the tracks you left. > >Here's a VERY approximate sliding scale of driveline stress conditions, based on >surfaces: > >-- On dry pavement, the stress level may be very high >-- On wet pavement, the stress level may be moderate to moderately high. >-- On dry packed dirt or hard-packed gravel, the stress level may be moderate to >low. >-- On soft dirt or gravel, the stress level may be low. >-- On mud or sand, the stress level may be very low. >-- On snow or ice, the stress level may be extremely low. > >Keep in mind that there are LARGE variations in traction within each of the above >categories. For example, a certain type of rough wet pavement might provide a lot >more traction than glassy-smooth wet pavement. Some people like to use four-wheel >drive on wet pavement...your decision. > >Another factor that will influence drivetrain stress is the load that the vehicle >is carrying. If there is a lot of weight in the bed of a pickup truck, you can >build up a lot more stress in the driveline in four-wheel drive, since it is >usually the rear tires that will slip first if the bed is empty. > >Another factor is a limited-slip or locking differential. > >Another factor is the tire itself (tread pattern, tire size, pressure, >condition, rubber composition, temperature, etc.) > >Generally speaking, as traction conditions worsen, there will be less stress on >the driveline as the result of using four-wheel drive...AND greater benefits from >using four-wheel drive. The decision as to when to use four-wheel drive is >entirely yours. As I recall, the basic owner's manual seems to give pretty good >general advice on this matter. > >And a word of advice in closing: Don't get overconfident when in four-wheel >drive. It could be disastrous. > >Alan > > >> In a message dated 2/10/00 7:54:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, jmann living.com>> writes: >> >> << I've used mine on went pavement before. But not on a continuos basis and >> mainly on straight. It's great for getting away from lights on wet pavement. >> Let's just say that turns on dry pavement are a BAD thing! I believe when >> the truck is in 4x4 mode the diffs get locked, or something. But lets wait >> for a more expert opinion. > >========================================================== >To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with>the words "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the body of the >message. > > ------------------------------ End of 97up-list Digest V2000 #3 ******************************** ---------------------------------------------------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts 1997 and Newer Truck List Send posts to 97up-list ford-trucks.comIf you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, send an email to: listar ford-trucks.comwith the words "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the subject of the message. Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com ---------------------------------------------------------- .... To access the rest of this feature you must be a logged in Registered User Of Ford Truck Enthusiasts
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