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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list 97up-list); Fri, 11 Feb 2000 19:05:08 -0500 (EST)
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 19:05:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server ford-trucks.com>
To: 97up-list digest users ford-trucks.com>
Reply-to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: 97up-list Digest V2000 #3
Precedence: bulk

==========================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts 1997 and Newer Truck Mailing
List(Use the Small Chassis List for Rangers, Explorers,
Aerostars and Bronco IIs.

Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com

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==========================================================

------------------------------------
97up-list Digest Thu, 10 Feb 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 003

In This Issue:
Re: Oil Change
ATF
Re: Oil Change
ATF
when to use 4x4 mode
ESOF
tire and wheel balance
Re: when to use 4x4 mode
Re: tire and wheel balance
tires and SSN help
Re: Oil Change
Re: Oil Change...long post
Re: tire and wheel balance
Re: Oil Change
Re: Kick Plates
Re: Bumpers, Receivers, Winches
Re: Oil Change
Re: tires and SSN help
Re: tire and wheel balance
AIR HORNS
Re: when to use 4x4 mode
Re: AIR HORNS
Oil Dip Stick
Re: tire and wheel balance
Re: when to use 4x4 mode

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Keith Veren" worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Oil Change
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:38:53 -0500

Sounds like Nathan may be at the other end of the scale. Lots of short
strips where the engine does not get heated up enough. I doubt if Nathan
would drive across the country from Washington DC to Los Angeles, (with a
fresh oil and filter change to begin the trip he would stop in Colorado or
Utah to change his oil. When running long trips, oil can be surprisingly
long-lasting, especially synthetics.

However, if you start your car, drive 4 miles, turn it off and repeat that
same trip twice a day, you oil will soon be contaminated with lots of
gasoline, water, acidity, and volatile combustion products that do not ever
have a change to evaporate away. In cases like this (often seen with
teachers that live near school, and Doctors that live near hospitals) I
would probably recommend changing oil at least every 2,000 to at most 3,000
miles, and not use synthetic (unless your wallet is perpetually full!).

Keith


----- Original Message -----
From: "Hunter" yahoo.com>
To: <97up-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 3:02 PM
Subject: [97up-list] Re: Oil Change


> WOW 2000 mile, if I did my math right and your truck take 6 qt. $5 each
for synthetic.
> That's close to $1000 for me. + gas + INS. + brake +...etc. I would've
never drove a
> car or truck. I thought our trucks should be 100,000 for tune-up and you
need to
> change it around 4000 mile with 5w-30.
>
> Nathan,
> Let me know when you want to sell your truck...:o)
>
> Hunter
>
> > >I'd advise against going that long on an oil changer (or start saving
for
> > >repair bills). A taxi starts in the morning and shuts off at night so
its
> > >oil change interval would be much different than the normal driver. I
> > >change my oil every 2000 miles (and use synthetic).
> > >
> > >Nathan Bernard
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://im.yahoo.com
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the body of the
> message.
>


------------------------------

From: "Scott Matus" hotmail.com>
Subject: ATF
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 18:18:01 PST



------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 16:15:25 -0800
Subject: Re: 4R100 drain plug
From: Rob Bryan netgate.net>

No...the 4R100 takes Mercon (aka Dextron II), the 4R70W uses Mercon V which
is much harder to find (especially in a synthetic that doesn't cost $8/qt
like the Redline stuff).

FWIW, the 4R100 on my dad's '99 5.4L Expedition has a drain plug on the
pan.Rob
>From: jmann living.com> Reply-To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
______________________________________________________


------------------------------

From: MFAPHOTO aol.com
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:24:08 EST
Subject: Re: Oil Change

OK guys. I'm changing my oil this week whether I need it or not. Better to be
safe than sorry!

Russ Martin
2000 F150 4X4 5.4L Lariat

------------------------------

From: "Scott Matus" hotmail.com>
Subject: ATF
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 18:26:42 PST

Sorry, about the last message. I'm using my wife's crap IBM laptop. Oh,
give me a good Toshiba any day.

Amsoil ATF is rated to the following standards:
GM Dexron III
Allison C-4
Ford Mercon (all)
Chrysler

And it does not cost $8.00 Qt. More like $2.90 Qt.

Scott.

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 16:15:25 -0800
Subject: Re: 4R100 drain plug
From: Rob Bryan netgate.net>

No...the 4R100 takes Mercon (aka Dextron II), the 4R70W uses Mercon V which
is much harder to find (especially in a synthetic that doesn't cost $8/qt
like the Redline stuff).

FWIW, the 4R100 on my dad's '99 5.4L Expedition has a drain plug on the pan.

Rob
>From: jmann living.com> Reply-To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
______________________________________________________


------------------------------

From: RCantu aol.com
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:32:22 EST
Subject: when to use 4x4 mode

Hi guys

my manual reads to not drive on "dry hard surfaces" which means the road. I
obviously know to use it when driving through mud, dirt, snow but what about
wet roads?

thanks

Robert

------------------------------

From: "Robert Benne" worldnet.att.net>
Subject: ESOF
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:33:30 -0700

Friend of mine in another state just had his ESOF go bad at 37,000 miles on
his SD 250 4X4. According to him this is not unusual. Cost was $550 to fix
and said his dealer stated that using ESOF on the fly would result in
stripped hub gears and that it is a known problem with SD Fords!!

I know from watching this list that we have a little of everything here -
5th wheelers, snow plow people, off-roaders and just plain drivers, so how
'bout it?? Anyone have a problem with their ESOF and any dealer feedback???



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:54:45 +0100
Subject: tire and wheel balance
From: "Kirk Werner" werner.org>


When I bought my F350 CC new in October, the dealer had added oversized
tires (Goodyear Wrangler AT/S, 30575R16) on the stock Lariat rims. They look
like they fit the rims fine- there's no crowning as is evident on tires that
have been mounted on rims which are smaller than ideal. The problem is that
they bounce real noticeably between 40-45 (you can feel the bounce in the
seat- so it's not a front end shimmy). I had the service dept (a
full-service "Ford Store") balance them twice, with no improvement. The
second time they basically told me that because they were oversized they'd
have that tendency, and plus being a long wheelbase truck I would notice any
bounce moreso than on a standard vehicle. I say BS to both. A longer
wheelbase will decrease the noticeability of any bumpiness in the ride- it's
short wheelbase vehicles which are choppier riding. I've also had oversize
tires before and that in and of itself is not a good justification for the
bounce. My hunch is that either all or one of the tires are bad, or they do
not balance them properly. I know tires can be "bad" because I once bought a
set of four, and they ended up replacing two of them because they could not
get them balanced on the rims. I've also heard tell that the only way to get
a true balance is to balance them while they're still on the truck.

Anyone else have these tires and have any problems?

Kirk

------------------------------

From: RCantu aol.com
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:40:38 EST
Subject: Re: when to use 4x4 mode

thanks for the response. I appreciatet the help.

Robert

In a message dated 2/10/00 7:54:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, jmann living.com
writes:

<< I've used mine on went pavement before. But not on a continuos basis and
mainly on straight. It's great for getting away from lights on wet pavement.
Let's just say that turns on dry pavement are a BAD thing! I believe when
the truck is in 4x4 mode the diffs get locked, or something. But lets wait
for a more expert opinion.
>>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:23:18 -0700
From: David & Laura Manuel earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: tire and wheel balance

I have the same tires with XLT rims on my 2000 SD 250, CC, Longbed. I
don't notice any of those problems.

------------------------------

From: "joel taylor" hotmail.com>
Subject: tires and SSN help
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 03:51:50 PST

Hello all!
I was wondering if anyone knew of the difference between the BFG
all-terrain and the BFG all terrain KO series. Are these tires any good?
Also, could someone please send me that SSN for the power brake booster
switch? I missed it when it was posted last. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Joel in NJ
______________________________________________________


------------------------------

From: "Jason Holmes" hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Change
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 04:14:12 PST

I see and have received enlightenment. Thank you.


>From: "Keith Veren" worldnet.att.net>
>Reply-To: 97up-listford-trucks.com
>To: <97up-listford-trucks.com>
>Subject: [97up-list] Re: Oil Change
>Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:50:19 -0500
>
>Wrong. It's just the opposite. The killer of oil is short runs where the
>oil does not get hot enough to evaporate all the water and acid -gas
>byproducts that form during the first 15 minutes after starting. After an
>engine is running at the proper temperature, the blow-by is well reduced,
>the water vapor input into the crankcase is just about eliminated, and the
>contaminating acid-gases cannot condense on the cylinder walls and
>contaminate the lubricating film. Kind of like certain electrical
>equipment
>that lasts much longer if always left on because the wear is caused by
>thermal cycles, not static warmth.
>
>Keith
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jason Holmes" hotmail.com>
>To: <97up-listford-trucks.com>
>Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 2:00 PM
>Subject: [97up-list] Re: Oil Change
>
>
> > I mean no offense, but your logic seems faulted. If a taxi has constant
>use
> > (moreso than the normal driver) the change frequency would be sooner not
> > later. Conversely, if one does not put a heavy strain on the engine (or
>oil)
> > the time between changes would increase.
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Union Auto" adiis.net>
> > >
> > >I'd advise against going that long on an oil changer (or start saving
>for
> > >repair bills). A taxi starts in the morning and shuts off at night so
>its
> > >oil change interval would be much different than the normal driver. I
> > >change my oil every 2000 miles (and use synthetic).
> > >
> > >Nathan Bernard
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________
> > > >
> > ==========================================================
> > To unsubscribe, send email to: listarford-trucks.com with
> > the words "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the body of the
> > message.
> >
>
>==========================================================
>To unsubscribe, send email to: listarford-trucks.com with
>the words "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the body of the
>message.
>

______________________________________________________


------------------------------

From: "Jason Holmes" hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Change...long post
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 04:18:59 PST

I thank you for the insights. Did not realize the intrusion of water (and
gas-byproducts according to a previous post) became factors.

>From: Glenn S See juno.com>
>Reply-To: 97up-listford-trucks.com
>To: 97up-listford-trucks.com
>Subject: [97up-list] Re: Oil Change...long post
>Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:12:49 -0600
>
><<<....... if one does not put a heavy strain on the engine (or oil)
>the time between changes would increase....>>>
>
>If stress and strain were the only factors affecting engine wear then the
>above statement would be substantially correct. However, other factors,
>primarily thermal cycling of the engine and ambient humidity
>fluctuations, will affect the purity, and therefore the lubricating and
>preservative qualities, of the oil.
>
>Beyond the obvious expansion and contraction of parts due to temperature
>changes (which can initiate metal fatigue by itself), each time the
>engine cools down after use an amount of moisture laden air is drawn into
>the engine. This moisture will produce contaminants by reacting with
>bare metal surfaces, wear products on the metal surfaces, and wear
>products in the oil. Eventually these contaminants will affect the
>ability of the oil to lubricate and protect the engine components,
>regardless of how "efficient" the filtering system is (better filtration
>can lengthen the time to oil "breakdown" but not prevent the eventual
>loss of oil quality and purity).
>
>This moisture interaction occurs in all rotating machinery, even greased
>bearings and "sealed" bearings and is considered to be leading cause of
>"random" bearing failures in industry. There are no perfect seals.
>
>The idea was mentioned in earlier posts....theoretically, if you could
>run your engine continuously, with adequate filtration, the engine life
>(and oil life) would be substantially longer than if you ran the engine
>for short periods frequently.
>
>Also, even if you did not run the engine, the daily/seasonal fluctuations
>in ambient humidity are enough to cause moisture intrusion in machinery
>and damage rotating component surfaces. Nature works in insidious ways.
>This is a primary reason manufacturers include a time factor in their
>schedules for oil changes.
>
>This moisture intrusion phenomena is not my personal theory, but was
>related to me by a retired Exxon employee who was their lead engineer on
>rotating machinery with several decades experience in the field of
>lubrication science.
>
>Bottom line, you can't change the oil too often. It becomes an economic
>decision how often. It should be noted that oil condition is only one
>variable in engine wear. Personally, I change the oil in my '98 F-150
>every 3000 miles (as recommended for "severe" service in the service
>manual).
>
>Submitted to offer some additional insight into lubrication theory.
>
>Steve
>==========================================================
>To unsubscribe, send email to: listarford-trucks.com with
>the words "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the body of the
>message.
>

______________________________________________________


------------------------------

From: "Zinski, Steve" richmond.edu>
Subject: Re: tire and wheel balance
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:46:37 -0500

I think what the dealer was trying to tell you is that on a longer wheelbase
vehicle there is more of a tendency to "bounce" due to the slight flexing of
the frame. On shorter wheelbase vehicles, the frame is much shorter and
therefore more rigid.

--Steve


-----Original Message-----
From: Kirk Werner [mailto:kirkwerner.org]
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 2:55 PM
To: 97up-listford-trucks.com
Subject: [97up-list] tire and wheel balance



When I bought my F350 CC new in October, the dealer had added oversized
tires (Goodyear Wrangler AT/S, 30575R16) on the stock Lariat rims. They look
like they fit the rims fine- there's no crowning as is evident on tires that
have been mounted on rims which are smaller than ideal. The problem is that
they bounce real noticeably between 40-45 (you can feel the bounce in the
seat- so it's not a front end shimmy). I had the service dept (a
full-service "Ford Store") balance them twice, with no improvement. The
second time they basically told me that because they were oversized they'd
have that tendency, and plus being a long wheelbase truck I would notice any
bounce moreso than on a standard vehicle. I say BS to both. A longer
wheelbase will decrease the noticeability of any bumpiness in the ride- it's
short wheelbase vehicles which are choppier riding. I've also had oversize
tires before and that in and of itself is not a good justification for the
bounce. My hunch is that either all or one of the tires are bad, or they do
not balance them properly. I know tires can be "bad" because I once bought a
set of four, and they ended up replacing two of them because they could not
get them balanced on the rims. I've also heard tell that the only way to get
a true balance is to balance them while they're still on the truck.

Anyone else have these tires and have any problems?

Kirk

------------------------------

From: jmannliving.com
Subject: Re: Oil Change
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:15:43 -0600

Well, with that said let's talk a bit about these time/distance/temperature
perimeters. For example, my daily commute is 15 miles one way and can take
15 to 30 minutes to complete and usually averages about 25 minutes of
driving time. During the typical morning and evening workday drives there
can me lots of stop/slow and go driving. So.

Average drive:

Distance: 15 miles
Drive time: 25 minutes
Time operating temp: 15-18 minutes
Driving condition: stop and go traffic on a Freeway
Average ambient temp: 65 degree

Oil Change interval?: anyone,...anyone

I'm guessing, 3000 miles or greater on Synthetic.

I don't know what sort of tech tips Ken has on the site, but maybe we could
agree on, and develop, driving profiles with matching oil change intervals
for a tech page on Oil Changing.

Just an idea.

Joe


-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Veren [mailto:Spectrum-EHSworldnet.att.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 1:50 PM
To: 97up-listford-trucks.com
Subject: [97up-list] Re: Oil Change

Wrong. It's just the opposite. The killer of oil is short runs where the
oil does not get hot enough to evaporate all the water and acid -gas
byproducts that form during the first 15 minutes after starting. After an
engine is running at the proper temperature, the blow-by is well reduced,
the water vapor input into the crankcase is just about eliminated, and the
contaminating acid-gases cannot condense on the cylinder walls and
contaminate the lubricating film. Kind of like certain electrical equipment
that lasts much longer if always left on because the wear is caused by
thermal cycles, not static warmth.

Keith




----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Holmes" hotmail.com>
To: <97up-listford-trucks.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 2:00 PM
Subject: [97up-list] Re: Oil Change


> I mean no offense, but your logic seems faulted. If a taxi has constant
use
> (moreso than the normal driver) the change frequency would be sooner not
> later. Conversely, if one does not put a heavy strain on the engine (or
oil)
> the time between changes would increase.
>
>
>
> >From: "Union Auto" adiis.net>
> >
> >I'd advise against going that long on an oil changer (or start saving for
> >repair bills). A taxi starts in the morning and shuts off at night so
its
> >oil change interval would be much different than the normal driver. I
> >change my oil every 2000 miles (and use synthetic).
> >
> >Nathan Bernard
> >
>
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________
> >
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listarford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the body of the
> message.
>

==========================================================
To unsubscribe, send email to: listarford-trucks.com with
the words "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the body of the
message.

------------------------------

From: davesomers worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Kick Plates
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:55:08 -0500

Well I can't help with a replacement for the plastic (assuming you have a
SuperDuty), but I can help protect the sheetmetal that's just below it.
(for me that's the part that gets the boot dragged across it on the way
in)
DeeZee calls them Kick Plates. I know that they are available in Brite
Tread (diamondplate aluminum) (DZ part# 900). This is a generic part for
most pickups. I don't know what other styles they come in. I had them on
my Suburban and they stood up to 10 years of abuse (including the dog's
chain dragging over it everyday when he got in and out).
One note I had with my 99 CrewCab - the front doorsill is longer than the
Kick Plate , and the back doorsill is shorter. The amount that I had to
cut off the back would have been about right to add to the front, but I
didn't want the seam. I installed it at the front, where the feet travel,
and it doesn't look too short.

I went out and looked at the truck, and it looks like they MIGHT be able to
be installed on top of the plastic too. I'd suggest finding a DeeZee
dealer and getting one to hold up and see if it would work.
Another idea (the one I would use if I was worried about the plastic) would
be to find a local sheet metal place that can bend a piece of aluminum for
you - create a larger one piece unit that starts at the inside of the
plastic, then wraps down the whole face. That could be secured better so
it won't get kicked off.


------------------------------

From: davesomers worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Bumpers, Receivers, Winches
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:12:38 -0500

(there since I get the digest, I'm replying to several at once here)

>significant emotional event when you try to un-stick your 6000-plus pound
>beast, sunk up to the axles in mud, and the receiver fails. (You can
>actually load a winch with up to 150% of your vehicle's weight when it's
>stuck bad.) Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, and you won't run into
>problems during "routine" use, but it could also fail when you need it
most.

I think that the potential load is even greater. There's a long story that
goes with this, but the short of it is that I stalled the XD9000 with the
cable doubled back (18000# theoretical). It was my (fully loaded-8000#)
Suburban sitting on its frame and axles on frozen ground (wheels were in
the air in the tracks created by a construction truck-The ruts were 3' deep
when the ice broke and I fell in)
I would agree that you should size the winch at least 1.5 times truck
weight for self recovery.
Of course, having said that, even a 12K is undersized for this truck

> --How much do you need for trailer to pull on? Some of the smaller ones
>should do the trick.

The limits on the receiver winches were not so much the weight limit - it's
more of a design problem with the trailer needing to be connected at the
same time.

>The bumpers (Ranchhand) are a nice piece i know of two friends in south TX
that have
>them , they love them, I have seen them their tough. Great for those
>unexpected animals or whatever. Their are a few other companies that make
>them i have researched since i probably will be buying one sometime, they
>just dont seem to measure up. You probably wont see them anywhere up that
>was as most people really dont know about them.

I called my cousin in OK, and he's seen and liked them too. They are
definitely in the running for the front end.

Does anybody else have any other brands of winch bumpers to throw into the
conversation? (99SD PSD)


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 07:14:28 -0800
From: Ralph Lindberg amsat.org>
Subject: Re: Oil Change

>Well, with that said let's talk a bit about these time/distance/temperature
>perimeters.
>....
>Oil Change interval?: anyone,...anyone
>
>I'm guessing, 3000 miles or greater on Synthetic.
>

In many ways this profile is so close to a 'normal' use that it's a good
benchmark.

IMHO 3000 for 'normal' oil, a full 6000 for synth -or- 6 months (lets not
leave that part out)

This oil change stuff comes up a lot, the RV groups, the driving groups,
etc, etc, etc. From my filter (snicker) ie taking out people that change
oil way to often, like Nathan (sorry guy) and a co-worker that uses synth
and never changes his oil (just the filter and whatever he spills) and then
refills. My feeling is that for normal driving changing oil per Ford is the
sound idea (6000 mi or 6 months). EXCEPT, since many of use use our
vehicles harder then that (short trips, towing, parked a lot) we should
change oil at 3000 miles, or 6000 for syn, or 6 months.

So that's my opinion, for what ever it's worth

Ralph Lindberg ICQ 5988954
RV and Camping FAQ
Just because MS-Window's holds 90% of the market doesn't mean it's
superior. Remember 90% of all animals are insects.




------------------------------

From: RSnoviaol.com
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 13:25:42 EST
Subject: Re: tires and SSN help

In a message dated 2/11/00 6:52:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
taylorjnhotmail.com writes:


they have the side bite on KO BFG all terrains, probably does help out some
when it gets gummy.

RS
<<
Hello all!
I was wondering if anyone knew of the difference between the BFG
all-terrain and the BFG all terrain KO series. Are these tires any good?
Also, could someone please send me that SSN for the power brake booster
switch? I missed it when it was posted last. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Joel in NJ
__________________________________________ >>

------------------------------

From: RSnoviaol.com
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 13:25:43 EST
Subject: Re: tire and wheel balance

In a message dated 2/10/00 11:51:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, kirkwerner.org
writes:


i think thats just the way it is , alot of tire for that rim size. I know my
Xcab F250 PSD does a little bit whenever you jump a curb or whatever is in
the way.

RS
<<

When I bought my F350 CC new in October, the dealer had added oversized
tires (Goodyear Wrangler AT/S, 30575R16) on the stock Lariat rims. They look
like they fit the rims fine- there's no crowning as is evident on tires that
have been mounted on rims which are smaller than ideal. The problem is that
they bounce real noticeably between 40-45 (you can feel the bounce in the
seat- so it's not a front end shimmy). I had the service dept (a
full-service "Ford Store") balance them twice, with no improvement. The
second time they basically told me that because they were oversized they'd
have that tendency, and plus being a long wheelbase truck I would notice any
bounce moreso than on a standard vehicle. I say BS to both. A longer
wheelbase will decrease the noticeability of any bumpiness in the ride- it's
short wheelbase vehicles which are choppier riding. I've also had oversize
tires before and that in and of itself is not a good justification for the
bounce. My hunch is that either all or one of the tires are bad, or they do
not balance them properly. I know tires can be "bad" because I once bought a
set of four, and they ended up replacing two of them because they could not
get them balanced on the rims. I've also heard tell that the only way to get
a true balance is to balance them while they're still on the truck.

Anyone else have these tires and have any problems?
>>

------------------------------

From: "Douglas Petschow" metlife.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:04:04 -0500
Subject: AIR HORNS



Any ideas where I can get air horns for my F250SD? Also how much do they run
and where are the best places to install them? Will they fit under the hood for
example or is it just best to put them on top of the truck? TIA!





------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:10:40 -0700
From: Alan Bowes todacosa.com>
Subject: Re: when to use 4x4 mode

In terms of the amount of stress that builds up in your drivetrain as a result of
using four-wheel drive, the key question is "How much stress is safe or
practical."

There's really no clear answer. A part-time 4x4 system (with no center
differential in the transfer case) will always build up stress in the drivetrain
when driving with the hubs engaged and the transfer case in the four-wheel-drive
position. The amount of stress is limited by the point at which the tires begin
to slip (or traction), which you could call the "fuse" in the circuit.

NOTE: Even when driving straight ahead, the front tires and rear tires never
turn "exactly" the same number of revolutions over a given distance. Even if
there is only a fraction of a revolution difference per mile, you will eventually
build up just as much stress as if you were making turns. Maximum stress is built
up as soon as the difference in rotation between the front and rear axles is
enough to exceed the amount of play in the drivetrain components and the amount
of flex in the tire treads and drivetrain component mounts...as limited by tire
traction. The only difference is that it requires a longer distance to build up
to maximum driveline stress when going straight ahead in four-wheel drive than
when making turns. And it would not necessarily be a very long distance, either,
perhaps only several hundred feet, maybe more, maybe less, depending on the road
surface, variation in tire diameter, wheel alignment specs, etc.

On the other hand, doing a lot of turning while in four-wheel drive will cause
the loading/unloading of drivetrain stress to occur more frequently, so there
could be a fatigue factor involved.

The reason that stress builds up more quickly when making turns in four-wheel
drive is because in a turn the front tires inscribe a larger arc than the rear
tires (due to some understeer designed into the steering geometry). In other
words, the front tires travel a significantly longer distance in a turn. If you
want to see what the difference is, make a tight turn in some fresh snow and have
a look at the tracks you left.

Here's a VERY approximate sliding scale of driveline stress conditions, based on
surfaces:

-- On dry pavement, the stress level may be very high
-- On wet pavement, the stress level may be moderate to moderately high.
-- On dry packed dirt or hard-packed gravel, the stress level may be moderate to
low.
-- On soft dirt or gravel, the stress level may be low.
-- On mud or sand, the stress level may be very low.
-- On snow or ice, the stress level may be extremely low.

Keep in mind that there are LARGE variations in traction within each of the above
categories. For example, a certain type of rough wet pavement might provide a lot
more traction than glassy-smooth wet pavement. Some people like to use four-wheel
drive on wet pavement...your decision.

Another factor that will influence drivetrain stress is the load that the vehicle
is carrying. If there is a lot of weight in the bed of a pickup truck, you can
build up a lot more stress in the driveline in four-wheel drive, since it is
usually the rear tires that will slip first if the bed is empty.

Another factor is a limited-slip or locking differential.

Another factor is the tire itself (tread pattern, tire size, pressure,
condition, rubber composition, temperature, etc.)

Generally speaking, as traction conditions worsen, there will be less stress on
the driveline as the result of using four-wheel drive...AND greater benefits from
using four-wheel drive. The decision as to when to use four-wheel drive is
entirely yours. As I recall, the basic owner's manual seems to give pretty good
general advice on this matter.

And a word of advice in closing: Don't get overconfident when in four-wheel
drive. It could be disastrous.

Alan


> In a message dated 2/10/00 7:54:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, jmannliving.com
> writes:
>
> << I've used mine on went pavement before. But not on a continuos basis and
> mainly on straight. It's great for getting away from lights on wet pavement.
> Let's just say that turns on dry pavement are a BAD thing! I believe when
> the truck is in 4x4 mode the diffs get locked, or something. But lets wait
> for a more expert opinion.


------------------------------

From: "Christian Bagley" hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: AIR HORNS
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 15:06:47 EST

I know the F150 is different from your truck but I installed 5 air horns on
the back side of my front bumper. This may also be a good place for your
truck.

Chris


>Any ideas where I can get air horns for my F250SD? Also how much do they
>run
>and where are the best places to install them? Will they fit under the
>hood for
>example or is it just best to put them on top of the truck? TIA!

______________________________________________________


------------------------------

From: "Dave Shaffer" iquest.net>
Subject: Oil Dip Stick
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 16:01:55 -0500

I have a '97 F-150 with a 4.2L-V6. My owners manuel shows the dipstick for
my engine as a flat 'blade' type according to the picture. It also shows
the dipstick for the V-8's as a 'cable' type with what appears to be a 1/4"
round piece of metal at the bottom with a min - max level on it. My
question is..... which is correct? In my truck I do have the cable type
dipstick.....but the owners manual says I should have the blade type
dipstick. Can anyone shed some info on this for me? Do I have the wrong
dipstick in my engine?


Thanks,
Dave Shaffer

------------------------------

From: "Steve J. Hodson" mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: tire and wheel balance
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:02:12 -0500

Try a different shop. First ask them to check the tires to see if they run
true. (out of round or sidewall variations are possible)
-----Original Message-----
From: RSnoviaol.com aol.com>
To: 97up-listford-trucks.com <97up-listford-trucks.com>
Date: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:23 PM
Subject: [97up-list] Re: tire and wheel balance


>In a message dated 2/10/00 11:51:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,
kirkwerner.org
>writes:
>
>
>i think thats just the way it is , alot of tire for that rim size. I know
my
>Xcab F250 PSD does a little bit whenever you jump a curb or whatever is in
>the way.
>
>RS
><<
>
> When I bought my F350 CC new in October, the dealer had added oversized
> tires (Goodyear Wrangler AT/S, 30575R16) on the stock Lariat rims. They
look
> like they fit the rims fine- there's no crowning as is evident on tires
that
> have been mounted on rims which are smaller than ideal. The problem is
that
> they bounce real noticeably between 40-45 (you can feel the bounce in the
> seat- so it's not a front end shimmy). I had the service dept (a
> full-service "Ford Store") balance them twice, with no improvement. The
> second time they basically told me that because they were oversized they'd
> have that tendency, and plus being a long wheelbase truck I would notice
any
> bounce moreso than on a standard vehicle. I say BS to both. A longer
> wheelbase will decrease the noticeability of any bumpiness in the ride-
it's
> short wheelbase vehicles which are choppier riding. I've also had oversize
> tires before and that in and of itself is not a good justification for the
> bounce. My hunch is that either all or one of the tires are bad, or they
do
> not balance them properly. I know tires can be "bad" because I once bought
a
> set of four, and they ended up replacing two of them because they could
not
> get them balanced on the rims. I've also heard tell that the only way to
get
> a true balance is to balance them while they're still on the truck.
>
> Anyone else have these tires and have any problems?
> >>
>==========================================================
>To unsubscribe, send email to: listarford-trucks.com with
>the words "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the body of the
>message.
>


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:58:49 -0500
From: Karen Wall / Steve Offiler ici.net>
Subject: Re: when to use 4x4 mode

Alan's explanation and advice (below) is truly excellent. I have one minor
point to add. There seemed to be a question in the original post as to why
the stress builds up in the driveline. The answer is that a "part-time"
4WD system has no center differential. Meaning, the front and rear axles
are locked together and forced to rotate at exactly the same speed when in
4WD mode. Then, as Alan points out, the driveline experiences stresses
(potentially damaging stresses) when the vehicle undergoes conditions that
have the front wheels turning at different speeds than the rears. This
happens to an extreme during turns and to a lesser degree when heading in a
straight line. But in 4WD the axles are locked and they must turn at
exactly the same speed. The only slippage that can possibly occur to
relieve the stresses is at the contact patch between tire and road - or you
can break gear teeth in the transfer case.

At 12:10 PM 2/11/00 -0700, Alan Bowes wrote:
>In terms of the amount of stress that builds up in your drivetrain as a
result of
>using four-wheel drive, the key question is "How much stress is safe or
>practical."
>
>There's really no clear answer. A part-time 4x4 system (with no center
>differential in the transfer case) will always build up stress in the
drivetrain
>when driving with the hubs engaged and the transfer case in the
four-wheel-drive
>position. The amount of stress is limited by the point at which the tires
begin
>to slip (or traction), which you could call the "fuse" in the circuit.
>
>NOTE: Even when driving straight ahead, the front tires and rear tires never
>turn "exactly" the same number of revolutions over a given distance. Even if
>there is only a fraction of a revolution difference per mile, you will
eventually
>build up just as much stress as if you were making turns. Maximum stress
is built
>up as soon as the difference in rotation between the front and rear axles is
>enough to exceed the amount of play in the drivetrain components and the
amount
>of flex in the tire treads and drivetrain component mounts...as limited by
tire
>traction. The only difference is that it requires a longer distance to
build up
>to maximum driveline stress when going straight ahead in four-wheel drive
than
>when making turns. And it would not necessarily be a very long distance,
either,
>perhaps only several hundred feet, maybe more, maybe less, depending on
the road
>surface, variation in tire diameter, wheel alignment specs, etc.
>
>On the other hand, doing a lot of turning while in four-wheel drive will
cause
>the loading/unloading of drivetrain stress to occur more frequently, so there
>could be a fatigue factor involved.
>
>The reason that stress builds up more quickly when making turns in four-wheel
>drive is because in a turn the front tires inscribe a larger arc than the
rear
>tires (due to some understeer designed into the steering geometry). In other
>words, the front tires travel a significantly longer distance in a turn.
If you
>want to see what the difference is, make a tight turn in some fresh snow
and have
>a look at the tracks you left.
>
>Here's a VERY approximate sliding scale of driveline stress conditions,
based on
>surfaces:
>
>-- On dry pavement, the stress level may be very high
>-- On wet pavement, the stress level may be moderate to moderately high.
>-- On dry packed dirt or hard-packed gravel, the stress level may be
moderate to
>low.
>-- On soft dirt or gravel, the stress level may be low.
>-- On mud or sand, the stress level may be very low.
>-- On snow or ice, the stress level may be extremely low.
>
>Keep in mind that there are LARGE variations in traction within each of
the above
>categories. For example, a certain type of rough wet pavement might
provide a lot
>more traction than glassy-smooth wet pavement. Some people like to use
four-wheel
>drive on wet pavement...your decision.
>
>Another factor that will influence drivetrain stress is the load that the
vehicle
>is carrying. If there is a lot of weight in the bed of a pickup truck, you
can
>build up a lot more stress in the driveline in four-wheel drive, since it is
>usually the rear tires that will slip first if the bed is empty.
>
>Another factor is a limited-slip or locking differential.
>
>Another factor is the tire itself (tread pattern, tire size, pressure,
>condition, rubber composition, temperature, etc.)
>
>Generally speaking, as traction conditions worsen, there will be less
stress on
>the driveline as the result of using four-wheel drive...AND greater
benefits from
>using four-wheel drive. The decision as to when to use four-wheel drive is
>entirely yours. As I recall, the basic owner's manual seems to give pretty
good
>general advice on this matter.
>
>And a word of advice in closing: Don't get overconfident when in four-wheel
>drive. It could be disastrous.
>
>Alan
>
>
>> In a message dated 2/10/00 7:54:52 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jmannliving.com
>> writes:
>>
>> << I've used mine on went pavement before. But not on a continuos basis and
>> mainly on straight. It's great for getting away from lights on wet
pavement.
>> Let's just say that turns on dry pavement are a BAD thing! I believe when
>> the truck is in 4x4 mode the diffs get locked, or something. But lets
wait
>> for a more expert opinion.
>
>==========================================================
>To unsubscribe, send email to: listarford-trucks.com with
>the words "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the body of the
>message.
>
>


------------------------------

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