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Subject: 97up-list-digest V2 #315
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97up-list-digest Saturday, November 20 1999 Volume 02 : Number 315



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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To unsubscribe, send email to:
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

FTE 97up - Re:SD Brakes
Re: FTE 97up - Come-on, it's a TRUCK, not a car!
FTE 97up - Fog Light Switch
Re: FTE 97up - Power Adjustable pedals on F-150
Re: FTE 97up - fog lights, again
Re: FTE 97up - Re:SD Brakes
FTE 97up - Brakes
FTE 97up - Water leaking from muffler?
RE: FTE 97up - Water leaking from muffler?
RE: FTE 97up - Question for Nathan - 2000 Ford Oval Tube Running Boards
Re: FTE 97up - Chains - looking for recommendations
Re: FTE 97up - RE: FTE Perf - ADMIN: Don't post your chain letters and urban leg ends to the lists!
ADMIN: Re: FTE 97up - Come-on, it's a TRUCK, not a car!
Re: FTE 97up - Water leaking from muffler?
Re: FTE 97up - Auto adjust headlights
Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Brakes: figured it out
FTE 97up - Re: F-550 springs on F-350 ??
FTE 97up - Re:Come-on, it's a TRUCK, not a car!
FTE 97up - ADMIN: New store items

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 07:09:15 -0600
From: Lee Haefele
Subject: FTE 97up - Re:SD Brakes

With the 4W ABS, there is no proportioning valve, it is all done in the
ABS computer.
Using the parking brake will make no difference. With the rear disk
brakes, there is no adjuster, the parking brake is a separate set of
little drum brakes inside the hub.
Reprogramming the ABS did help the operation of my brakes.
The ABS does seem to be overactive and take the brakes off for a loong
time, almost went through the wall of my Ford dealer once when I went to
complain about the brakes!
I don't know why Ford is not more interested in these unsafe brakes.
My dealer is going to be grumpy when he sees our new GMC.(Nice brakes on
that truck & the ABS doesn't send me on wild rides.)
Lee Haefele
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 07:32:34 EST
From: RSnovi aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Come-on, it's a TRUCK, not a car!

I was just brain storming due to my other vehicle from 150- 0 helped quite a
bit.

I know what you are saying we basicly just need a level stance to be able to
be happy.


RS

Proportioning valve in the case of driving an empty truck like a car will
not help, they are there now anyway. Even if you could manually control
front to rear braking power, what do you gain if you are overdriving the
truck?? For example, if you put 100% stopping on the fronts, the same
problem with rear hopping/sliding (only at 100% they would be rolling), if
you put more braking power in the rear, they will skid, hop etc., and the
fronts won't have enough power to do their job.

Bottom line, many drivers (experienced mostly in driving cars) hop in a
big-fullsize SuperDuty SuperCab
F350 and drive it like a car, loaded or unloaded and they expect it to
perform like a car. Wrong. It's not a car.


Keith

----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Come-on, it's a TRUCK, not a car!


> In a message dated 11/18/99 8:52:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> Spectrum-EHS worldnet.att.net writes:
>
>
> how about a proportioning valve?
>
> RS
>
> Date: 11/18/99 8:52:21 PM Eastern Standard Time
> From: Spectrum-EHS worldnet.att.net (Keith Veren)
> Sender: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Reply-to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>
> Correct Joe,
>
> But remember, a truck has to be designed so the "default" mode is a
> partially-to-fully loaded truck. Heavy loads will put lots of weight on
the
> rears and it will stop just fine (F-350, remember). The trouble starts
when
> people are running empty and drive it like a car. No, it will not stop
like
> a car, it is a TRUCK. When driving a truck empty, you need to go slower
> than in a car, leave more room between you and the car ahead of you,
start
> braking for lights & stop-signs sooner, etc. If you remember that it is
a
> truck, and you drive it like a truck, it stops just fine, loaded or
> unloaded.
>
> Keith
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: zman
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 7:24 PM
> Subject: FTE 97up - Super Duty Brakes: figured it out
>
>
> > Thought I knew my SDs behavior until about an hour ago, I almost rear
> > ended somebody because my brakes felt like they were nonexistent. Prior
> > to tonight I didn't know for certain what the problem was because "the
> > loss of brakes feeling" was happening only on bumpy roads. Tonight it
> > happened on a flat slab of concrete road. Once I got home and tested my
> > theory in the parking lot, I knew what the problem was. I have seen
this
> > in motorcycle racing and some racers use it to their advantage.
> > Basically, when the brakes are applied very firmly the front of the
> > vehicle dives taking the weight off the rear tires negating the
stopping
> > power of the rear brakes. As a result you can hear the rear tires
> > squealing and the rear end my also feel like it is "bouncing."
> > I think it would be very hard to convince the manufacturer that it is a
> > defect with their product. I am guessing the only way to fix the
problem
> > is after market parts to increase the stopping power of the front
disks.
> > Possibly firmer front springs to keep the front end from diving under
> > hard braking, or the cheapest way is just to increase your stopping
> > distance. I am going to try the latter.
> >
> >
> >
> > good luck
> > joe
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Charles Abraham wrote:
> > >
> > > Mine behaves in the exact same way. Twice I almost lost it. And I
wasn't
> > > even speeding. Now, if I know the road or hill, I start breaking real
> early or
> > > take my foot off the accelerator petal and coast most of the way to a
> stop.
> > >
> > > Charles.
> > >
> > > zman wrote:
> > >
> > > > I noticed almost the same thing. The feeling I get is like the
brakes
> > > > aren't working, but for me it happens when I am coming to a stop on
> ANY
> > > > bumpy road. Once the rear end stops bouncing everything is ok. The
> first
> > > > time it happened I almost........ thank god I have tan seats, if
you
> > > > know what I mean.
> > > >
> > > > joe
> > > >
> > > > RSnovi aol.com wrote:
> > > > > Anyone notice when you hit a bump going down hill i notice the
> brakes seem to
> > > > > skip, which is not a nice feeling when coming up on a light.
> > > > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info
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> > >
> > > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 05:53:05 PST
From: "Scott Matus"
Subject: FTE 97up - Fog Light Switch

This is what I know about the non-Foglight switch.

I took the switch out of my dash, openend it up, and disassembled it. The
switch has the position/motion of "pull' for fog lights, but there is not
any electrical contacts for the circuit. It is quite a marvel of
engineering that switch. It is built modular so it wouls be a small circuit
board needed to get the fog lights to work. You won't get it from Ford, so
don't even think of it.

THe only way to have fog lights switched from the factory dash location is
to buy a new switch. I'm not sure where the harness connection is located.
THe only thing I saw was an unused connector near the ABS unit. I think the
Fog light kit may shed some light on the harness connections.

Scott.

______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 07:40:21 -0600
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Power Adjustable pedals on F-150

Yes, 4wd Supercrews will have the ESOF as standard equipment. (At least
according to the order guide, anything can change between now and January)

Nathan
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Douglas R. Floyd
To:
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Power Adjustable pedals on F-150


> > Will the Supercrew be available with 4WD, preferably ESOF?
>
> --
> Douglas R. Floyd | Mirror Mirror on the wall


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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 07:46:55 -0600
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - fog lights, again

We've put the Ford accesory Fog lights on a Super Duty and it included a new
switch and involved splicing into a couple of wires under the dash.

Nathan

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph Lindberg
To:
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 9:40 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - fog lights, again


> I went over to my local Ford dealer to talk about added fog lights to my
> 99-F250SD. Which from earlier discussions just invloves replacing the
light
> switch and wiring the lights off the existing wire harness.
> He did some looking at the parts lists and found things that confused us
> both. They list (apparently) the same switch for the truck with and
without
> fog lights. Since he didn't have any switchs in stock neither of us were
> certain what is going on.
> Based on some other Ford vehicles his thought was that switch with
> fog-lights pulled out to turn them on.
> He also mentioned an 'auto-dim' option, where the truck lights would
> automaticly dim when an approaching vehicle triggered the system. This
> appeared to have a different switch.
> His guess is that all these trucks are wired to handle the fog-lights
(as
> was mentioned here on the list)
>
> Could someone that has added fog lights give a bit more information on
this.
>
>
> BTW, don't be too surprised if a Ford parts guy joins one of the truck
> lists. He wanted to know where I had heard about this and it sounded like
> something he might want to do, only I think (?) his truck is older then
> this list's
>
> Ralph Lindberg ICQ 5988954
> RV and Camping FAQ
> Just because MS-Window's holds 90% of the market doesn't mean it's
> superior. Remember 90% of all animals are insects.
>
>
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 09:05:10 EST
From: CERESJohnG aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re:SD Brakes

No excuse for it but it seems they all have problems with ABS at one time or
another. While your new GMC has nice ABS, GM is chewing on an ABS lawsuit and
problems with the NHTSB with certain models that had Kelsey Hayes Brakes.

JOhn G
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 09:10:26 -0500
From: Norm Hurst
Subject: FTE 97up - Brakes

If the road is bumpy it will toss the rear end up, reducing the weight (even=
more) on the rear wheels. Less weight means less friction, which makes it=
much easier for either wheel to momentarily lock up. If ABS releases the=
brakes on a wheel if the wheel locks up, this might explain the sensation=
of "loss of braking". It's because there was a loss of braking. I imagine=
ABS works best on a smooth road.=20

I didn't like how my F-150 4x4 rode empty: the springs seemed to be at the=
top of their travel and the rear just seemed to bounce along, hammering up=
against the stops. As someone else said, the truck seems to be designed to=
operate loaded. To get the springs farther down into their working range,=
I increased the static force on them: I put five sacks of sand in the bed. =
It rides much better now. I suppose it stops better, too.=20

- -Norm


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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 09:17:01 -0500
From: Norm Hurst
Subject: FTE 97up - Water leaking from muffler?

Anybody else seen this?: Several times now I have seen a puddle of water=
under the truck in my driveway, like condensate from the A/C. But I=
haven't been running the A/C. =20

When I got underneath, I saw water dripping from the muffler! I understand=
that the combustion process makes a lot of H2O, and that it will condense=
in an exhaust system until the exhaust system gets hot (I only see this=
when I haven't run the truck for more than a few minutes). I've seen water=
dripping from the tailpipe of other cars, but never have I seen it dripping=
from the muffler!

Maybe this is a design feature that keeps water from accumulating in the=
muffler and causing early muffler failure. Or maybe the muffler's broke.

Anybody?


- -Norm =20


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 08:48:15 -0600
From: Alex Levinson
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Water leaking from muffler?

Norm,

I have the exact same thing on my truck. When I start it water leaks from
the rear of the muffler. It kind of worried me at first but the dealer and
my favorite mechanic assured me it was normal.

Supposedly it lets the moisture drain from the muffler to prevent premature
rusting.

Alex

- -----Original Message-----
From: Norm Hurst [SMTP:nhurst sarnoff.com]
Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999 8:17 AM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 97up - Water leaking from muffler?

Anybody else seen this?: Several times now I have seen a puddle of water
under the truck in my driveway, like condensate from the A/C. But I
haven't been running the A/C.

When I got underneath, I saw water dripping from the muffler! I understand
that the combustion process makes a lot of H2O, and that it will condense
in an exhaust system until the exhaust system gets hot (I only see this
when I haven't run the truck for more than a few minutes). I've seen water
dripping from the tailpipe of other cars, but never have I seen it dripping
from the muffler!

Maybe this is a design feature that keeps water from accumulating in the
muffler and causing early muffler failure. Or maybe the muffler's broke.

Anybody?


- -Norm


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 09:06:46 -0600
From: jmann living.com
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Question for Nathan - 2000 Ford Oval Tube Running Boards

Michael,

My A-Plan 2000 F150 SC Lariat Flareside 4x4 just got delivered last week.
List for the Cab Steps (code 18E) are $350 and Cost is $298.

If anyone wants to no list for any options for the previously mentioned
truck, drop me a message. I put just about every option possible, accept the
CA emission package, and I have the invoice right here.

Joe


- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael [mailto:dixieboy Earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 9:46 AM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 97up - Question for Nathan - 2000 Ford Oval Tube Running
Boards

Nathan,

First, let me say I really appreciate your feedback to the Ford Truck
Digest Group. I have learned a lot about the Ford Truck fixes, problems,
and points reading your posts.

I see that Ford has replaced the standard Black Plastic or Fiberglass
running boards for 2000 with an Oval Tube type running board that really
looks good. According to the invoice, they are about $350.00 cost to the
dealer installed from the factory. (I'm fortunate to be an A Plan buyer so,
as you know, I see the actual invoice)

I just bought a 2000 F150 4X4 SuperCab Lariat and it had no steps
installed. My question to you is, how much do these new model Oval Tube
Steps now cost for a set ?

Thanks in Advance,
Michael Rymer Cape Coral, FL

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:12:59 -0500
From: "Keith Veren"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Chains - looking for recommendations

Ford makes the "steel-rope" type of chain for the Expedition and certain
pick-ups, they should work on the Excursion. Just ask your ford dealer (or
Nathan).

Keith


- ----- Original Message -----
From: Rich and Mari Cower
To:
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 11:56 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - Chains - looking for recommendations


> Got a '00 PSD Excursion. Anyone got any chain recommendations? It's got 16
> all season tires on it.
>
> thanks...rich
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:23:57 -0600 (CST)
From: Sandman
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - RE: FTE Perf - ADMIN: Don't post your chain letters and urban leg ends to the lists!

On Tue, 16 Nov 1999 jmann living.com wrote:

> Let's see, how did that line go in the movie Stripes, "Lighten up Francis."
>
> I agree that these "gullibility viruses" are annoying as hell. I've put up
> with them for almost 10 years. But you will have new users who wont no about
> this little rule, and current uses that either wont see this, oh so kind
> message, that will surely make the evidently fatal mistake of sending one of
> these out to your lists. And when, not IF, they do I would hope that da
> fuhrer wouldn't take them out back and shoot the for their first mistake.
>
This is a great way for users to learn about it as well. Its not like
ANYONE on the list is paying anything for these lists.

> There are a number of sites that list these messages. Try writing a filter
> that looks for a substring in commonly known "gullibility viruses" and dumps
> them before they hit the list. It might work a bit better than threatening
> your users.
>
Writing a script for these would be a pain, as they get moved around and
altered all the time. Again, I say, no one is paying for the lists, he
can impose whatever rules he wants, you sound like a customer of my ISP I
work at who gets an account for free and calls up and complains all the
time. Just let the people live and learn, and they always could
resubscribe once they learn we don't need any chain letters. :)

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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 11:52:34 -0500
From: kpayne ford-trucks.com
Subject: ADMIN: Re: FTE 97up - Come-on, it's a TRUCK, not a car!

Administrative note:

Please trim long quotes when replying. The two sentence replies with
2 pages of quotes is a little too much and places an unwanted amount
of mail traffic when the digests go out.

Ken Payne
Admin
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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:36:03 -0700
From: Alan Bowes
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Water leaking from muffler?

As you correctly surmised, one of the primary combustion products is water vapor. When you first start the vehicle, the warm water vapor simply condenses on the cooler interior surfaces of the exhaust system and drips out at any convenient exit point. When the exhaust system warms up, the water vapor no longer condenses on the surfaces to any significant degree, so you no longer see the
dripping.

Your muffler may either have a "weep hole" or a slight gap in a folded or welded seam where the water can escape.

Alan Bowes


Norm Hurst wrote:

> When I got underneath, I saw water dripping from the muffler! I understand that the combustion process makes a lot of H2O, and that it will condense in an exhaust system until the exhaust system gets hot (I only see this when I haven't run the truck for more than a few minutes). I've seen water dripping from the tailpipe of other cars, but never have I seen it dripping from the muffler!

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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:01:13 -0600
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Auto adjust headlights

The autolamp option turns the lights on at dark, but doesn't have the auto
dim feature. They did away with this due to some problems (road signs would
dim lights, when they'd dim the car you meat would dim then not seeing as
bright of light the autolamps would go back to bright until the car got
closer.) The autolamp option is standard on Lariats and included with the
Power Seat option on an XLT.

Nathan

- ----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 11:10 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - Auto adjust headlights


> I guess this one is for Nathan but someone else may have a clue.
>
> Is the auto-adjust headlight feature (headlights automatically dim when
they
> sense an approaching car) available as an option on say the XLT's. I see
it
> as standard on the Lariets. I had that on a T-bird some years back and I
> really liked it. The one I had was nice in that it also sensed ambient
light
> and turned the lights on at dusk.
>
> Only problem I had was that the ambient sensor was in the middle of the
dash
> and look up thrugh the windshield. Virginia unfortunatly has state
inspection
> as well as local license stickers . There are specific places mandated by
> regulation for the placement of these things and that happened to be right
in
> the line of sight of the sensor. It was always an argument with inspectors
to
> move them to one side.
>
> John G
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 16:42:08 -0500
From: "Steve J. Hodson"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Brakes: figured it out

Your truck already has the device that stops this problem from happening,
it's called anti-lock brakes. If your truck is locking up any wheel under
anything but the most adverse situation (transition from dry concrete to ice
for instance) than your anti-lock brakes are not working properly.
- -----Original Message-----
From: zman
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Thursday, November 18, 1999 7:26 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - Super Duty Brakes: figured it out


>Thought I knew my SDs behavior until about an hour ago, I almost rear
>ended somebody because my brakes felt like they were nonexistent. Prior
>to tonight I didn't know for certain what the problem was because "the
>loss of brakes feeling" was happening only on bumpy roads. Tonight it
>happened on a flat slab of concrete road. Once I got home and tested my
>theory in the parking lot, I knew what the problem was. I have seen this
>in motorcycle racing and some racers use it to their advantage.
>Basically, when the brakes are applied very firmly the front of the
>vehicle dives taking the weight off the rear tires negating the stopping
>power of the rear brakes. As a result you can hear the rear tires
>squealing and the rear end my also feel like it is "bouncing."
>I think it would be very hard to convince the manufacturer that it is a
>defect with their product. I am guessing the only way to fix the problem
>is after market parts to increase the stopping power of the front disks.
>Possibly firmer front springs to keep the front end from diving under
>hard braking, or the cheapest way is just to increase your stopping
>distance. I am going to try the latter.
>
>
>
>good luck
>joe
>
>
>
>
>Charles Abraham wrote:
>>
>> Mine behaves in the exact same way. Twice I almost lost it. And I wasn't
>> even speeding. Now, if I know the road or hill, I start breaking real
early or
>> take my foot off the accelerator petal and coast most of the way to a
stop.
>>
>> Charles.
>>
>> zman wrote:
>>
>> > I noticed almost the same thing. The feeling I get is like the brakes
>> > aren't working, but for me it happens when I am coming to a stop on ANY
>> > bumpy road. Once the rear end stops bouncing everything is ok. The
first
>> > time it happened I almost........ thank god I have tan seats, if you
>> > know what I mean.
>> >
>> > joe
>> >
>> > RSnovi aol.com wrote:
>> > > Anyone notice when you hit a bump going down hill i notice the brakes
seem to
>> > > skip, which is not a nice feeling when coming up on a light.
>> > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info
http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>>
>> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 19:44:44 EST
From: BFunk33 aol.com
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: F-550 springs on F-350 ??

Most medium-to-large cities have "spring shops", which deal in nothing but
suspensions for vehicles, expecially trucks.
There's no reason to deal with the limited options your Ford dealer will
offer you, when these guys can make anything you want to solve your spring
problems; they have seen it all, and know how to fix it all when it comes to
springs (well, usually!).
Bill

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:


Subject: Re: FTE 97up - F-550 springs on F-350 ??

Tuff Country makes special 6-leaf positive arch springs for the diesel
F-350, in their 3-1/2" "leveling" kit lift. I even used them on my V-10
F-350 because I have an 850 pound snowplow that I put on for 5 months during
the winter. Now the front stays nice and level with the back, even when I
lift the plow blade up (the front used to go down 3 orso inches with the
stock "snow-plow suspension" option - worthless).
Keith

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Ruth
To:
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 10:04 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - F-550 springs on F-350 ??

> Hello Fordnatics!
> I have a 99 F350 4X4 Superduty powerstroke ,supercab with the heavy front
> susp. pkg and I noticed the front end was sagging at 36,000 miles. The
> dealer suggested they could put F550 springs on my truck. Does anyone
know
> what this will do to the height and the ride of my truck. Does anyone know
> if the 550 have positive arched springs? I think this is what I want, can
> somone give me ideas or have experience with this? Thanks!
> Mike
> xplorit erols.com
==========================================================
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 20:16:36 EST
From: BFunk33 aol.com
Subject: FTE 97up - Re:Come-on, it's a TRUCK, not a car!

In a message dated 11/19/99 8:42:04 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
owner-97up-list-digest ford-trucks.com writes:


Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Come-on, it's a TRUCK, not a car!

how about a proportioning valve?
>>

There's already a proportioning valve there.
What would be really useful would be something like a mass accellerometer,
which would determine the mass of the truck (and would, therefore, be able to....


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