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Subject: 97up-list-digest V2 #310
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97up-list-digest Monday, November 15 1999 Volume 02 : Number 310



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

FTE 97up - Re:Super Duty Brakes!
FTE 97up - Structural differences between F-150 and F-250
FTE 97up - Warped Rotors!!
FTE 97up - Re: Warped Rotors!!
Re: FTE 97up - V-10 versus Diesel
Re: FTE 97up - drop bumper F250 SD
Re: FTE 97up - Re:Super Duty Brakes!
Re: FTE 97up - Structural differences between F-150 and F-250
Re: FTE 97up - Re:Super Duty Brakes!
FTE 97up - Need a pickup bed (update)
Re: FTE 97up - Need a pickup bed (update)
Re: FTE 97up - drop bumper F250 SD
Re: FTE 97up - Need a pickup bed (update)
FTE 97up - tire fit for F150 need opinions

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 07:38:13 -0600
From: Lee Haefele
Subject: FTE 97up - Re:Super Duty Brakes!

Subject: Re: FTE 97up -

Well mine goes in for the third time for brakes on Mon. rotors have
been
replaced and turned. And yes I know how to adjust a brake controller for
my
trailer. Anybody got suggestions for me. Truck has 17,500 mi.

Alan

Your short rotor life may be due to rear brakes not doing their share of
the stopping.

My 99 F-350 Chassis Cab had dangerously worthless brakes on delivery.
The front wheels locked & the rear wheels did little. I know that the
front brakes were overheated many times to the point of violent
shaking. The dealer, one year later, fixed it by accident when they did
the brake shield recall. Two complaints to Ford & maybe 20 to the
dealer had not gotten it fixed. I would have thought Ford would have
sent me a card to ask if my brakes were fixed, or called?? Now it has
just medium lousy brakes, but all the wheels do stop.
The new GMC (4X4, DRW, 12,000GVW) I picked up Friday has wonderful
brakes, put 2 toes on the pedal and STOP. It is not as quiet & smooth
as the SD, but it was $7000 less than any currently avail Ford, as there
were NO gas engine units avail, and it looks like a long time to order
one. This is one of 8 Cable TV bucket trucks.
Lee Haefele
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 09:05:58 EST
From: MFAPHOTO aol.com
Subject: FTE 97up - Structural differences between F-150 and F-250

I just bought a new F-150 and it is fine for my purposes (didn't even
look at the 250's), so this question is academic. However, I'd like to know
if there are beams in the doors of the 250's to stop intrusions in crashes. I
have heard that the F-150 are built to different standards because they are
not considered commercial vehicles, whereas the F-250 are. The F-150's have
them.
Also, I have a Lariat with heavy duty towing package and 4X4 off road
package. Though it is a subjective thing, can anyone tell me if there is a
difference in ride/feel of an F-250 equipped the same? Haven't driven one!

Russ Martin

P.S. Saw a new black F-250 Lariat on the road yesterday with tinted windows,
visor, push bars, step bars, etc.. Looked real nice and tougher than mine
because of the grille and extras! I'm a little jealous but mine is loaded too!
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 10:10:27 -0500
From: "Ashok Ajmani"
Subject: FTE 97up - Warped Rotors!!

Gene,
Sounds like your rotors are warped as you have also concluded. One surefire
way mess up rotors are to use impact wrenches on lug nuts. For one, the
torque is set to a generic value, secondly you are not progressively
tightening the nuts in a pattern, but jamming them one by one. This can
mess up expensive wheels as well. Folks should demand that shops hand
torque the lug nuts. I realize these items may or may not be the cause of
your rotor problems.
Regards,
Ashok
- ------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 09:23:25 -0800
From: Gene Ball
Subject: FTE 97up - Super Duty Brakes!
Anyone have any trouble with warped rotors on their SD
My brakes are in bad shape! The truck rattles very bad when stopping!


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 10:13:32 -0500
From: "Ashok Ajmani"
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: Warped Rotors!!

Gene,
I did not read all the responses to your rotor concerns, prior to submitting
mine - looks like folks had already responded meaningfully!!
Ashok
- -----Original Message-----
From: Ashok Ajmani
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Sunday, November 14, 1999 10:10 AM
Subject: Warped Rotors!!


>Gene,
>Sounds like your rotors are warped as you have also concluded. One
surefire
>way mess up rotors are to use impact wrenches on lug nuts. For one, the
>torque is set to a generic value, secondly you are not progressively
>tightening the nuts in a pattern, but jamming them one by one. This can
>mess up expensive wheels as well. Folks should demand that shops hand
>torque the lug nuts. I realize these items may or may not be the cause of
>your rotor problems.
>Regards,
>Ashok
>------------------------------
>Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 09:23:25 -0800
>From: Gene Ball
>Subject: FTE 97up - Super Duty Brakes!
>Anyone have any trouble with warped rotors on their SD
>My brakes are in bad shape! The truck rattles very bad when stopping!
>
>

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 10:47:04 -0500
From: "Steve J. Hodson"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - V-10 versus Diesel

Perhaps the best answer to the question of which is better, V10 or PSD? is
contained in Bill's note. Buy one of each! I just need to convince my wife
that she needs a 2000 cc PSD.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bill
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Saturday, November 13, 1999 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - V-10 versus Diesel


>I see a lot of buying decisions (diesel/V10) being made based on the price
of
>fuel. I don't understand anyone doing this. No one knows the price of
fuel,
>tomorrow or 10 years from now.
>We saw diesel fuel selling for .04 per gallon more than gasoline in
Wisconsin
>this past summer. Some places diesel fuel was less. Forget the mileage
thing,
>ask those owning both how they pull and what they are pulling. We have one
of
>each here, both 1999's. IMHO if you are going to pull at least 8000 pounds
75%
>of the time, travel 12K miles or over pulling per year and travel 85%
>freeways, get the diesel. If not get the V10. Our diesel has a 4.10 rear
and
>the V10 has a 4.30. On the freeway the diesel gets 13mpg pulling 8K at 60
>mph. The V10 gets 10 mpg doing the same load and speed. Paying someone to
>change the oil, the V10 is $22.65, the diesel is $39.75 now that's every 3k
>miles. Now if you can afford a $30k-plus pickup I sure wouldn't worry
about
>$17.10 difference in oil change and a few cents a gallon fuel difference in
>fuel. As for pulling, the diesel and the V10 both pull 8k well at 60-70
mph.
>For stop and go the V10 with 8k being pulled has much fast pickup when
pulling
>out in traffic or away from stops. That's the way I see it. Bill
>Karen Wall / Steve Officer wrote:
>
>> My opinion, for what it's worth, is to GO FOR THE DIESEL!! The
Powerstroke
>> has 500 ft-lb, the V-10 (um, sorry, what is it, low 400's?). And your
fuel
>> cost justification based on $1.00 per gallon is probably flawed. It's
>> $1.40 where I live, and who knows what it will be when your new truck is
>> 8-10 years old? Not $1.00, I can assure you!
>>
>> At 09:53 AM 11/13/99 EST, you wrote:
>>
>> >I too am in a bit of a quandary in deciding between a V10 and a diesel
for
>> an
>> >F-250 SC 4X2.
>> >
>> >I use my truck almost exclusively for towing.... (snip)
>>
>> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
>--
>This message was sent using 100% recycled electrons.
>
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 10:10:50 -0800
From: Dave Santo
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - drop bumper F250 SD

>I'm looking for vendors for rear drop bumpers for 99 F250
>super-duty. Only have found J&J-Ent so far. Anyone know of any
>others?

Drove to J & J last Thursday(11/11) to buy a front grille insert
(polished stainless steel tubular) for my '00 F-250 SD. They were out
of stock, but, they agreed to MAKE ONE for me and have it ready for
me on Monday(11/15)! They manufacture some of their own products.
Your bumper just might be one of them.

I'd recommend them for your bumper. They also seemed to have more
"goodies" on their shelves than their web site has.

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 10:29:24 -0800
From: Dave Santo
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re:Super Duty Brakes!

Reading all the responses for the SD brake problems, I still have a
problem with my 2000 SD 4x4 brakes(Lariat w/abs). I took it into the
dealer, and after being ASKED BY THE DEALER to bring it back in to be
checked (the service person test drove it with me and noticed what it
was doing), they now tell me that there is nothing wrong(???).
Nothing wrong with the brakes and nothing wrong with the ABS system.
Problem noticed when driven off the lot with 8 miles on it!

When I come to a stop it is very smooth UNTIL 1/10 OF A SECOND
IMMEDIATELY BEFORE COMING TO A FULL AND COMPLETE STOP. It STILL feels
like the ABS releases the brakes and INSTANTANEOUSLY REAPPLIES THEM.
And, I have also noticed that when I release my foot off of the brake
pedal, to take-off from a full and complete stop, it feels like the
brakes are releasing properly, but, it also feels like SOMETHING ELSE
IS ALSO RELEASING (and going back to where IT was?).

To describe this a little more... it kind of feels like (NOT THAT IT
IS!) an axle is "rotating" in one direction when stopping and it
rotates "back" as I take off. I've got about 600 miles on the SD now.
Dealer wants to see it again at about 1,000-1,500 miles if it's still
doing it.

Any more thoughts from the Group would be definitely appreciated! TIA.
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 14:20:05 EST
From: RSnovi aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Structural differences between F-150 and F-250

In a message dated 11/14/99 9:10:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,
MFAPHOTO aol.com writes:


the ride is definitly different, straight axle vs. A arms. But my mom even
says my F250 4x4 rides good for a 3/4 ton.

RS



Date: 11/14/99 9:10:08 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: MFAPHOTO aol.com
Sender: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
Reply-to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com

I just bought a new F-150 and it is fine for my purposes (didn't even
look at the 250's), so this question is academic. However, I'd like to know
if there are beams in the doors of the 250's to stop intrusions in crashes.
I
have heard that the F-150 are built to different standards because they are
not considered commercial vehicles, whereas the F-250 are. The F-150's have
them.
Also, I have a Lariat with heavy duty towing package and 4X4 off road
package. Though it is a subjective thing, can anyone tell me if there is a
difference in ride/feel of an F-250 equipped the same? Haven't driven one!

Russ Martin

P.S. Saw a new black F-250 Lariat on the road yesterday with tinted windows,
visor, push bars, step bars, etc.. Looked real nice and tougher than mine
because of the grille and extras! I'm a little jealous but mine is loaded
too!
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Subject: FTE 97up - Structural differences between F-150 and F-250
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 16:42:29 -0500
From: "Steve J. Hodson"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re:Super Duty Brakes!

Dave: To eliminate the possibility that it could just be a "feel" that your
not used to (I don't know what sorts of vehicles you've driven before) why
not ask the dealer to drive one or two new SD's on the lot and see if they
feel different than yours.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Dave Santo
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Sunday, November 14, 1999 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re:Super Duty Brakes!


>Reading all the responses for the SD brake problems, I still have a
>problem with my 2000 SD 4x4 brakes(Lariat w/abs). I took it into the
>dealer, and after being ASKED BY THE DEALER to bring it back in to be
>checked (the service person test drove it with me and noticed what it
>was doing), they now tell me that there is nothing wrong(???).
>Nothing wrong with the brakes and nothing wrong with the ABS system.
>Problem noticed when driven off the lot with 8 miles on it!
>
>When I come to a stop it is very smooth UNTIL 1/10 OF A SECOND
>IMMEDIATELY BEFORE COMING TO A FULL AND COMPLETE STOP. It STILL feels
>like the ABS releases the brakes and INSTANTANEOUSLY REAPPLIES THEM.
>And, I have also noticed that when I release my foot off of the brake
>pedal, to take-off from a full and complete stop, it feels like the
>brakes are releasing properly, but, it also feels like SOMETHING ELSE
>IS ALSO RELEASING (and going back to where IT was?).
>
>To describe this a little more... it kind of feels like (NOT THAT IT
>IS!) an axle is "rotating" in one direction when stopping and it
>rotates "back" as I take off. I've got about 600 miles on the SD now.
>Dealer wants to see it again at about 1,000-1,500 miles if it's still
>doing it.
>
>Any more thoughts from the Group would be definitely appreciated! TIA.
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 19:44:40 EST
From: RAMWORKER aol.com
Subject: FTE 97up - Need a pickup bed (update)

Need a pickup bed update.

You might recall this thread from a couple of months ago that a friend of
mine wanted an F-450 pickup.

The project is complete! The bed is on the F-450. We couldn't find a red bed
so the order was changed to white. This truck actually arrived early. It was
supposed to be delivered in mid December and
Arrived in early November. Here's how to mount the bed.

Step 1 Order the truck with the small 19-gallon fuel tank. If you order the
40-gallon tank, you're going to lose it when you cut the rear frame rails
later.
Step 2 Have the wheelbase shortened 4" by moving the axle forward or cutting
the frame between the rear axle and cab. It seems to me that shortening the
frame would have been easier, but the shop wanted to move the axle forward.
You'll need to shorten the driveshaft and emergency brake cable.
Step 3 Mount the bed, this proved to be much easier than we've previously
discussed. The frame rails on the chassis cab are narrower than the pickup
truck by about 2." There are several ways to overcome this. By using
outriggers you can compensate for the width and elevation differences. We
used small square tube steel cut to the length of the depth of the frame rail
and welded to the outboard of the frame rails in a vertical position. The
mounting bolts are about 1" longer than the tube steel and go through the
tube steel.
Step 4 Cut the excess frame rail length behind the bed. Be sure to leave
enough of the frame rails so you can mount your rear bumper.
Step 5 Hook up the fuel filler. A very straightforward operation, no problems
here.
Step 6 Buy and mount a new F-450 emblem on the tailgate, about $12.00
Step 7 Buy and mount the high mounted brake light, about $36.00. The wiring
is already in place and clipped to the factory installed block-off plate.

The different rear track of the chassis cab vs. the pickup was absolutely no
problem. It's difficult to tell in a cursory examination that Ford doesn't
build this. It looks great. The truck has about 700 miles on it now and the
only remaining problem is what to do about fuel capacity. 19 gallons of fuel
while getting 10~12 MPG makes for a short cruising range.

Best Regards,
Robert



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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 18:21:07 -0700
From: "Brandon Adams"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Need a pickup bed (update)

You have any pictures of the results. I would love to see them.

Brandon
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 5:44 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - Need a pickup bed (update)


> Need a pickup bed update.
>
> You might recall this thread from a couple of months ago that a friend of
> mine wanted an F-450 pickup.
>
> The project is complete! The bed is on the F-450. We couldn't find a red
bed
> so the order was changed to white. This truck actually arrived early. It
was
> supposed to be delivered in mid December and
> Arrived in early November. Here's how to mount the bed.
>
> Step 1 Order the truck with the small 19-gallon fuel tank. If you order
the
> 40-gallon tank, you're going to lose it when you cut the rear frame rails
> later.
> Step 2 Have the wheelbase shortened 4" by moving the axle forward or
cutting
> the frame between the rear axle and cab. It seems to me that shortening
the
> frame would have been easier, but the shop wanted to move the axle
forward.
> You'll need to shorten the driveshaft and emergency brake cable.
> Step 3 Mount the bed, this proved to be much easier than we've previously
> discussed. The frame rails on the chassis cab are narrower than the pickup
> truck by about 2." There are several ways to overcome this. By using
> outriggers you can compensate for the width and elevation differences. We
> used small square tube steel cut to the length of the depth of the frame
rail
> and welded to the outboard of the frame rails in a vertical position. The
> mounting bolts are about 1" longer than the tube steel and go through the
> tube steel.
> Step 4 Cut the excess frame rail length behind the bed. Be sure to leave
> enough of the frame rails so you can mount your rear bumper.
> Step 5 Hook up the fuel filler. A very straightforward operation, no
problems
> here.
> Step 6 Buy and mount a new F-450 emblem on the tailgate, about $12.00
> Step 7 Buy and mount the high mounted brake light, about $36.00. The
wiring
> is already in place and clipped to the factory installed block-off plate.
>
> The different rear track of the chassis cab vs. the pickup was absolutely
no
> problem. It's difficult to tell in a cursory examination that Ford doesn't
> build this. It looks great. The truck has about 700 miles on it now and
the
> only remaining problem is what to do about fuel capacity. 19 gallons of
fuel
> while getting 10~12 MPG makes for a short cruising range.
>
> Best Regards,
> Robert
>
>
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 19:21:31 -0600
From: Steve #1
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - drop bumper F250 SD

Greg Knust wrote:

> I'm looking for vendors for rear drop bumpers for 99 F250 superd duty. Only
> have found J&J-Ent so far. Anyone know of any others?

Back when I worked at the dealership, installing bumpers was a big part of
my job. Of all the different ones I installed over two years, the only brand I
would recommend is Ranch Hand. The Ranch Hand's fit and finish, not to mention
strength, is superior to all the other brands I've worked with.
- --
Steve #1

'99 F150 "Little Foot" Regular Cab XLT 5.4 4X4
'00 Focus ZX3
'97 Mustang GT 4.6
'87 K5 Blazer "Monster" Silverado 350 4X4

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/f15099/

If you haven't scratched your truck off road, You're not doing it right.


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 20:43:28 EST
From: RAMWORKER aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Need a pickup bed (update)

Sorry, no pics available. The best I can do is describe
it and let your imagination take over. Take a white F-350
crew cab with dual wheels for your starting point and add
19.5 wheels and F-450 emblems in all the appropriate places
and aftermarket wheel simulators and a Ranch Hand rear
bumper and you've got an idea of what it looks like.
I tried to talk him out of this idea and build a phony F-450 by
"badge engineering" but he wouldn't hear of it. It worked out
much better than I thought and the cost was less than getting
an F-350 and going with a 19.5 wheel conversion. In fact, I'm
glad now that Centurion wouldn't sell him the filler pieces they
use in their conversions. I think the bed in its proper position
looks much better than Centurions filler pieces between the
cab and bed.

Best Regards,
Robert

In a message dated 11/14/99 7:20:33 PM Central Standard Time, adamsb asu.edu
writes:

> You have any pictures of the results. I would love to see them.....


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