From: owner-97up-list-digest ford-trucks.com (97up-list-digest)
To: 97up-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Subject: 97up-list-digest V2 #253
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97up-list-digest Monday, September 20 1999 Volume 02 : Number 253



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 97up - The crack
FTE 97up - Crack is a safety issue
FTE 97up - Chassis Lubrication-97 F150 4X4: Please help!
Re: FTE 97up - 5 th wheel trailer questions
Re: FTE 97up - Chassis Lubrication-97 F150 4X4: Please help!
FTE 97up - F150 Sheetmetal Cracks
Re: FTE 97up - F150 Sheetmetal Cracks
Re: FTE 97up - F150 Sheetmetal Cracks
FTE 97up - discovery

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Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:56:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: dlsipe webtv.net (Darin Sipe)
Subject: FTE 97up - The crack

For Terry and those of you who don't yet know where to make your
complaint: First complain to your dealer, then to Ford Customer
Service, then you can file a complaint with the NHTSA at dot.gov

NHTSA is the gov't agency dealing with automotive safety and defect
issues. I can definitely see Ford fighting this all the way, saying
that it's not a safety issue but, working with the NHTSA may be the only
chance of getting this resolved at the rightful expense of FOMOCO.

If you haven't filed a complaint with the NHTSA, I highly reccomend you
do so.

Brandon-I know a lot of this is repeat information, but some people are
obviously just finding out about it. I appreciate you offer of
distributing flyers on the issue to Ford owners. I would like to see
this done as well. I would be glad to make a flyer, but I only have a
webtv unit which in incapable of document production.

Good luck!
Darin

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Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:22:31 -0500
From: "Allemand, Andre'"
Subject: FTE 97up - Crack is a safety issue

The crack we are all talking about IS a safety issue as well as a cosmetic
one. Any compromise in structural integrity could leave the occupants prone
to additional injury. As we travel down the highway the "safety cage" is
the only barrier protection between us and other vehicles. For an example,
take an empty aluminum soda can. Grab it on the top and bottom and twist.
The can should crumple evenly into a smaller cylinder. Now take another can
and cut or create a small "crack" in it. Do the same twisting motion, the
can will tear. Take these findings and relate them back to a multiforce
accident in your truck. Get the picture..?

Boomer
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Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:08:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: dlsipe webtv.net (Darin Sipe)
Subject: FTE 97up - Chassis Lubrication-97 F150 4X4: Please help!

My 97 4X4 has developed some serious squeaks in the driver's side front
end in the last 2 days. I went under today to take a look for anything
obvious, and to lube the pivot points. The only obvious thing I found
was the lack of grease fittings. There were none anywhere on the ball
joints or steering linkage. How is one supposed to get grease into the
joints?

Darin

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Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:49:59 -0400
From: "Bill Wood"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 5 th wheel trailer questions

The term "fith wheel" dates back to the horse and buggy days.
There was a pivot pin and bearing in the center which was hard bolted
together.
Then there was a circle shaped load bearing ring (or plate) located on the
wagon frame.
Below this , on the axle was another ring (or wheel), which the load rested
on.
This permited the front axle to turn under the wagon ,provide the draw point
and support the load. As most wagons had four wheels on the ground, this
was refered to as the
"fith wheel". As autos replaced horses, adapter plates were bolted to the
frames of
early trucks, in place of the wagon axle. A very good example of this can
be seen
in antique fire apparatus. Many steam pumpers and ladders were converted
from
horse drawn to auto drawn. Even early "semi" trucks were permanent mount.
Then a quick detach system was devloped to enable one "horse" to haul many
different wagons (today's fith wheel).
Over time, many different plate/pin and ball/hitch systems which are usually
mounted
over the truck axle are refered to as "fith wheel hitches for this reason.
Trailers which
use these methods of attachment are refered to as "fith wheel" to tell them
apart from
"bumper bangers".
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Friday, September 17, 1999 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 5 th wheel trailer questions


> i know where it hooks up to. but why is it called a fifth wheel trailer?
> that's what i wanna know
>
>
> Bill
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>

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Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:01:47 -0500
From: "Mike Fairleigh"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Chassis Lubrication-97 F150 4X4: Please help!

One isn't. This is yet another great design innovation of the late 20th
century, "maintenance-free" suspension components. It probably also
explains why my '98 F150 SC had to have the pittman arm replaced at 12,000
miles.

Mike Fairleigh
mikef sky.net
...Always remembering our veterans.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Darin Sipe
To:
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 1999 6:08 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - Chassis Lubrication-97 F150 4X4: Please help!


> My 97 4X4 has developed some serious squeaks in the driver's side front
> end in the last 2 days. How is one supposed to get grease into the
> joints?



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Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:15:04 PDT
From: "Scott Matus"
Subject: FTE 97up - F150 Sheetmetal Cracks

Now that we have established that the problem is real and affects both
doors, lets get this planned/coordinated. I would be willing to make and
distribute fliers on the problem. We must first use this medium to
determine the direction of the complaints. I mean what entity will have the
largest impact in the customer compliant campaign.

Is it Ford directly (there will be zero press on this route)?

Government agency (I suspect that we would need LARGE numbers here to get
impact)?

Press directly (It may be difficult to get initial press, secondary press is
possible)?

Independent Agency ( This would involve some $ - anyone willing to open
pockets?)?

We need to have each of these mediums (or others I've missed) investigated.
I think that with our large readership, we should have very good coverage.

I propose to anyone with experience dealing with the methods listed above,
Investigate it now! Then report back to the list with answers to the
following questions:

What complaint numbers are required to get this agency/medium to assist?

What specifically can they offer in engineering, spreading the word,
government assistance, or applying pressure to Ford?

Once we have the agency/medium(s) online, then we can begin to distribute
fliers to all F150s that ALL FTE membership may come in contact. We must
make tis a coordinated effort, or it will fail.

Please send the scathing e-mails if I'm off base here. We can make the
fliers into a one page "crack.pdf" file to distribute to the redership that
wants to help out.

Scott.

______________________________________________________
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Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:05:28 -0500
From: tvsjr sprynet.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - F150 Sheetmetal Cracks

However, you have big numbers. Multiple people on this list own fleets of
these trucks- someone mentioned owning 100+. I suggest a multipronged
attack. Get everything together. Have every person get photos of their
cracks (no pun intended ;-) and write up a brief description of what is
wrong. Get one person (preferably a lawyer on here somewhere) to organize
each complaint and the photos that go with it. Go make copies of the entire
thing and bind it some way. Call Ford and tell them what's wrong. Send them
the information. They'll review it and probably tell you to screw off.
Then, call the feds. Give them the information. They'll be forced to
seriously investigate the problem. While they are working on that, hit Ford
where it hurts- the pocketbook. Each person should call every media outlet
in their city. If a person gets a response, and the media organization
wants the documentation, whoever is organizing the info should send it
PROMPTLY out. If all else fails, a class-action lawsuit MIGHT be feasible.

Only three things are going to make Ford take care of this: A. Feds
crawling over the entire design layout for the F-150 trucks. B. Multiple
TV/radio stations/newspapers/etc. calling and asking questions, and then
running stories making the problem public, which will affect their profits
(hopefully). C. Pure annoyance. If enough people complain about the crack,
Ford might eventually give up. Couple the three together, and we can make
Ford take care of this.

Don't get me wrong: There will be money spent to make all of this work, but
it CAN be done.

Of course, these are just my suggestions. I don't even own an F-150.

Terry


At 07:15 PM 09/19/1999 -0700, you wrote:
>Now that we have established that the problem is real and affects both
>doors, lets get this planned/coordinated. I would be willing to make and
>distribute fliers on the problem. We must first use this medium to
>determine the direction of the complaints. I mean what entity will have the
>largest impact in the customer compliant campaign.
>
>Is it Ford directly (there will be zero press on this route)?
>
>Government agency (I suspect that we would need LARGE numbers here to get
>impact)?
>
>Press directly (It may be difficult to get initial press, secondary press is
>possible)?
>
>Independent Agency ( This would involve some $ - anyone willing to open
>pockets?)?
>
>We need to have each of these mediums (or others I've missed) investigated.
>I think that with our large readership, we should have very good coverage.
>
>I propose to anyone with experience dealing with the methods listed above,
>Investigate it now! Then report back to the list with answers to the
>following questions:
>
>What complaint numbers are required to get this agency/medium to assist?
>
>What specifically can they offer in engineering, spreading the word,
>government assistance, or applying pressure to Ford?
>
>Once we have the agency/medium(s) online, then we can begin to distribute
>fliers to all F150s that ALL FTE membership may come in contact. We must
>make tis a coordinated effort, or it will fail.
>
>Please send the scathing e-mails if I'm off base here. We can make the
>fliers into a one page "crack.pdf" file to distribute to the redership that
>wants to help out.
>
>Scott.
>
>______________________________________________________
> >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html


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Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:28:01 EDT
From: CERESJohnG aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - F150 Sheetmetal Cracks

You know folks, I think that Ford can and will ignore you beyond the
warranty period regardless of the amount of h--l raising you do. They have
sold the vehicle with a specific warranty. Beyond that, quite frankly if
the truck simply safely collapsed on the highway you legally have no
recourse. The only avenue open to you is bad publicity and embarrasing the
company sufficiently that they will do something.

Let's face it, the US Manufactureres almost didn't survive the lousy design
issues that popped up in the 60's and 70's. Remember those neat ones that
started to rust on the showroom floor? The small car disasters that simply
looked cheap while the Japanese somehow always made beige vinyl interiors
look passable. Vega's were a classic but most US vehicles suffered from
rust problems and relaibility problems The payback was the mass exodus to
Asian vehicles whose engineers did and still do their homework.

The Asian vehicles are complex, a bear to repair and parts are expensive BUT
they generally keep running and don't need a lot of work if they are
maintained,. They get a lot of performance out of small packages something
the US manufacturers have Just started to figure out.

For large truck owners, Asia's not an option, Toyota ain't there yet and the
rest are not close but if Ford see's this finally as a reliability issue that
will cost them sales Then they may decide to retrofit. Otherwise they will
fix the problem on new ones to shut down further complaints and leave the
rest of you out of warrenty folks hanging.

They are repairing under warrenty so they are meeting the letter of their
legal obligation. Beyond that someone will have to set up a rather hardnosed
publicity campaign and hope.

Good luck, glad I'm not faced with the problem.

John G
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Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:34:08 -0500
From: Stan Wright
Subject: FTE 97up - discovery

I installed new speakers in the doors of my 1999 F250 Super Duty crew
cab XLT. I had to remove the red reflector on the door to get to a
screw to remove the door trim. I noticed a light socket with no bulb.
I put a bulb in and the light came on. It's part of the courtesy light
system. Same for the passenger door. I'm guessing the Lariat package....

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