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97up-list-digest Tuesday, September 14 1999 Volume 02 : Number 247



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: FTE 97up - F250 vs GMC review.
Re: FTE 97up - engine question???
FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheetmetal
Re: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheetmetal
Re: FTE 97up - engine question???
Re: FTE 97up - Tires
Re: FTE 97up - engine question???
Re: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheetmetal
Re: FTE 97up - Tires
RE: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheet metal
RE: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheet metal
RE: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheet metal
FTE 97up - 97up -Rust on Chrome & Cracked door Sheet metal
Re: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheetmetal
Re: FTE 97up - engine question???
Re: FTE 97up - engine question???
RE: FTE 97up - 97up -Rust on Chrome & Cracked door Sheet metal
Re: FTE 97up - Tires
Re: FTE 97up - engine question???
Re: FTE 97up - engine question???

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:09:07 -0400
From: Karen Wall / Steve Offiler
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - F250 vs GMC review.

I read the article when it came out a few months ago, and working from my
sometimes faulty memory, I recall that it seemed to boil down to weight.
The Ford weights quite a bit more, several hundred pounds. This hurts
payload capacity (both had fairly equal gross weight ratings, but subtract
a lighter truck and in theory you can haul a higher payload with the GM).
Weight also hurts fuel economy and straight-line performance. But with
that said, how is GM building such a lightweight truck? - my answer is that
the truck is a lightweight. Buy the Ford.

Steve O.
soffiler ici.net
North Scituate, RI
'97 Ford F-250HD 4x4 - old style

At 10:31 PM 9/13/99 EDT, you wrote:
>Car and Driver compared the F250 SD V10 to the GMC Sierra 2500...... and
gave
>the nod to the GMC in a number of areas. As I am just days away from placing
>an order for a F250 SD, I am interested in members' opinions of the
>comparison.

>Yes, I know these evaluations can be biased etc., but what about the
specific
>issues they raise? Are they offset by things they didn't discuss, like
>engines, tranny, etc.?
>
>Inquiring minds (especially those with a new truck order on the horizon)
want
>to know.
>Paul


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Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:56:34 -0400
From: Dean Baruffi
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - engine question???

Yes, I understand that, but is the difference in the valve train alone? If
so the heads with the DOHC will have all the valve train components needed
for the conversion (since it is an overhead cam design)

Higher rpms will come with the cam replacement which would come with the
head swap.

- -Dean Baruffi

At 10:58 PM 9/13/99 -0400, you wrote:
>
>two different animals, you are speaking DOHC and SOHC, 2 valve and 4v. 5.4
>is a SOHC, yes it is a stroked 4.6 SOHC, but it is still a dog. Higher rpm
>is the only way to get some decent hp.
>
>RS
>
>
> >
> > Ok, now for the real brain teaser:
> >
> > I assume the block for the 4.6L Cobra and 4.6L truck are different, but
> > will the Cobra heads (and valve train) fit on the 4.6L truck engine? If
> > so, since the 4.6L and 5.4L have similar blocks, will the Cobra heads fit
> > on the 5.4L block?
> >
> > I would love to put these heads on my 2000 F-150 5.4L or the Navigators 4V
> > heads. Any comments?
> >
> >
> > -Dean Baruffi
>
> Now that's a puzzler. I have heard that the 5.4 is a stroked 4.6L, but
> I have heard otherwise in different places. If that is possible, that would
> rock.
>
> --
> Douglas R. Floyd | PGP key fingerprints
> | DSS:
>70A06BB5F1C24B1732AD6B0679C2FCB2329E0766
> Disclaimer: | RSA: 94E90F86BB073368ACA4C9931AF214D5
> I speak for myself, not my employer.
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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> Message-Id:
> Subject: Re: FTE 97up - engine question???
> To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:12:35 -0500 (CDT)
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>Baruffi" at Sep 13, 99 03:54:39 pm
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:19:32 -0400
From: "Jim Bielecki"
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheetmetal

> What you say is true, but the one way to get Ford's attention is to try to
> hit them harder in the pocketbook than fixing the problem wouldI realize
> that alone, I'm not a pimple on Ford's rear end, but if a lot of us unite,
> its going to hurt them (not to mention giving Dodge and GM a field day in
> publicity).

Unfortunately it will have no impact at all. Sales-wise, big trucks of any
make are selling like hotcakes and the manufacturers can't build enough of
them to meet the demand. The handful who won't buy a Ford because of this
problem will just be replaced by someone else.

Jim Bielecki

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Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:59:56 -0400
From: kpayne ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheetmetal

Jim Bielecki wrote:
- -snip-
>
> Unfortunately it will have no impact at all. Sales-wise, big trucks of any
> make are selling like hotcakes and the manufacturers can't build enough of
> them to meet the demand. The handful who won't buy a Ford because of this
> problem will just be replaced by someone else.
>
> Jim Bielecki
>

BINGO! This is no different than the recent fiasco with
Toyota refusing to fix emission problems with all their
cars made for the last 5 years for the California market.

Ken
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:32:10 EDT
From: RSnovi aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - engine question???

In a message dated 99-09-14 08:00:36 EDT, you write:

again 2 valve and 4 valves are not the same, i would like to see how you plan
on actuateing 4 vavles per cylinder with 2 cams.

RS


Date: 99-09-14 08:00:36 EDT
From: dean.baruffi yale.edu (Dean Baruffi)
Sender: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
Reply-to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com

Yes, I understand that, but is the difference in the valve train alone? If
so the heads with the DOHC will have all the valve train components needed
for the conversion (since it is an overhead cam design)

Higher rpms will come with the cam replacement which would come with the
head swap.

-Dean Baruffi

At 10:58 PM 9/13/99 -0400, you wrote:
>
>two different animals, you are speaking DOHC and SOHC, 2 valve and 4v. 5.4
>is a SOHC, yes it is a stroked 4.6 SOHC, but it is still a dog. Higher rpm
>is the only way to get some decent hp.
>
>RS
>
>
> >
> > Ok, now for the real brain teaser:
> >
> > I assume the block for the 4.6L Cobra and 4.6L truck are different, but
> > will the Cobra heads (and valve train) fit on the 4.6L truck engine? If
> > so, since the 4.6L and 5.4L have similar blocks, will the Cobra heads fit
> > on the 5.4L block?
> >
> > I would love to put these heads on my 2000 F-150 5.4L or the Navigators
4V
> > heads. Any comments?
> >
> >
> > -Dean Baruffi
>
> Now that's a puzzler. I have heard that the 5.4 is a stroked 4.6L, but
> I have heard otherwise in different places. If that is possible, that
would
> rock.
>
> --
> Douglas R. Floyd | PGP key fingerprints
> | DSS:
>70A06BB5F1C24B1732AD6B0679C2FCB2329E0766
> Disclaimer: | RSA: 94E90F86BB073368ACA4C9931AF214D5
> I speak for myself, not my employer.
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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> Message-Id:
> Subject: Re: FTE 97up - engine question???
> To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:12:35 -0500 (CDT)
> In-Reply-To: from "Dean
>Baruffi" at Sep 13, 99 03:54:39 pm
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Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:56:34 -0400
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
From: Dean Baruffi
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - engine question???
In-Reply-To:
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:37:22 -0500
From: "Charles Abraham"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Tires

The only objection I have to the tires you've listed is their overall height.
They're all about the same height, which looks undersized in the Super
Duty's wheel wells. (My daughter's Expedition came with bigger tires.)
Otherwise, I find nothing else wrong with them.

I choose the LT265/75R16E OWL "All Season", because of the following reasons,

- - felt the the wider tire would float better and offer a smoother ride. But in
winter
driving, the wider the tire the more you push the snow rather than cut through
it.
Also, more contact with the road means more friction to overcome, and so, I
would
guess that fuel economy (mileage) suffers to a small degree.

- - All Season handling characteristics better suited for paved roads and highways,

which is 99% of my driving. Also, tread design much quieter than All Terrain's.

- - prefer the looks of the OWL than pain black side walls. I have a Lariat so
looks
are important. What's sucks though, is that the spare tire comes only as a
black wall.
So if you have a flat and run on your spare it looks like hell, one black and
one OWL.
(Another great cost reduction by Ford!)

The tires have performed very well so far. Have no real complaints.

Regards,

Charles.


I think what's most objectionable about the stock tires you've listed, is that
they look small for a truck of this size. (My daughter's Expedition came with
larger wheels and tires.) But that's it. Otherwise


PaulinMO aol.com wrote:

> I'm trying to sort out the tire options on the F250SD lariat 4x4. Frankly, my
> knowledge of tires is largely limited to knowing they are round :-/
>
> The choices are: (with dealer cost from edmunds)
> 1) LT235/85R16E BSW (Standard)
> 2) LT235/85R16E All terrain BSW ($107)
> 3) LT235/85R16E All terrain OWL ($217)
> 4) LT265/75R16E OWL ($267)
> 5) LT265/75R16E All terrain OWL ($370)
>
> Ok, so what exactly does one get for the difference in cost here? I am not
> looking for anything fancy, and the only offroading I will be doing is
> hauling wood from the back 40, slugging through mud at farm auctions, etc. Is
> it better to just get the standard tires and plan on upgrading when they wear
> out (to what?), or are the more expensive options worth ordering with the
> truck?
>
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Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:18:05 -0400
From: Dean Baruffi
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - engine question???

This is how I invision it:


The truck (Windsor and Romeo) 4.6L and 5.4L have one chain going to each
head to control the cam movement. I don't know how the DOHC actuates 2
cams on each head (2 independent chains purhaps?), but what ever the
Navigator does to actuates both cams on each head, that is the method I
would use. It should not be brain surgery.

The easiest method (and more expensive) would be an engine swap.

It's nice to dream.

- -Dean Baruffi



At 10:32 AM 9/14/99 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 99-09-14 08:00:36 EDT, you write:
>
>again 2 valve and 4 valves are not the same, i would like to see how you
plan
>on actuateing 4 vavles per cylinder with 2 cams.
>
>RS
>
>
> Date: 99-09-14 08:00:36 EDT
> From: dean.baruffi yale.edu (Dean Baruffi)
> Sender: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Reply-to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>
> Yes, I understand that, but is the difference in the valve train alone? If
> so the heads with the DOHC will have all the valve train components needed
> for the conversion (since it is an overhead cam design)
>
> Higher rpms will come with the cam replacement which would come with the
> head swap.
>
> -Dean Baruffi
>
> At 10:58 PM 9/13/99 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> >two different animals, you are speaking DOHC and SOHC, 2 valve and 4v.
5.4
> >is a SOHC, yes it is a stroked 4.6 SOHC, but it is still a dog. Higher
rpm
> >is the only way to get some decent hp.
> >
> >RS
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Ok, now for the real brain teaser:
> > >
> > > I assume the block for the 4.6L Cobra and 4.6L truck are different, but
> > > will the Cobra heads (and valve train) fit on the 4.6L truck engine? If
> > > so, since the 4.6L and 5.4L have similar blocks, will the Cobra heads
fit
> > > on the 5.4L block?
> > >
> > > I would love to put these heads on my 2000 F-150 5.4L or the Navigators
>4V
> > > heads. Any comments?
> > >
> > >
> > > -Dean Baruffi
> >
> > Now that's a puzzler. I have heard that the 5.4 is a stroked 4.6L, but
> > I have heard otherwise in different places. If that is possible, that
>would
> > rock.
> >
> > --
> > Douglas R. Floyd | PGP key fingerprints
> > | DSS:
> >70A06BB5F1C24B1732AD6B0679C2FCB2329E0766
> > Disclaimer: | RSA: 94E90F86BB073368ACA4C9931AF214D5
> > I speak for myself, not my employer.
> > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> >
> >
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> > for 97up-list ford-trucks.com; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:12:36 -0500
> > From: "Douglas R. Floyd"
> > Message-Id:
> > Subject: Re: FTE 97up - engine question???
> > To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> > Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:12:35 -0500 (CDT)
> > In-Reply-To: from
"Dean
> >Baruffi" at Sep 13, 99 03:54:39 pm
> > Content-Type: text
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> Subject: Re: FTE 97up - engine question???
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Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:21:41 EDT
From: "Christian Bagley"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheetmetal

So basically you are saying just roll over and let them do what they want to
do. I guess we should just let gang bangers go around and shoot up everyone
and not hold them to the same laws we obey. After all they are going to do
what they want to do anyway. Well, we are not going to do that, the police
still enforce thoses laws that we live by to keep order. If we let big
corporations continue to "screw" the us, the consumers, and if they do not
hold themselves accountable for the inaccuaracies of their product and
obvious flaws in the build of the product then the day will come when we are
completely controlled and no longer have any choice and will have to accept
what the manufacturer sells. It is terrible that we as an American society,
no longer demand quality and just accept what is sold to us. This "crack"
may be a small flaw but it WILL result in big complications if it goes
un-treated and Ford will not do anything for those who have no existing
warranty left even though they know that this is a fault of their own and
due to them trying to cut corners in order to increase their profit margin
for the executives and stock holders, well guess who gets stuck with the
bill. It's the little man(consumer & businesses) who pays for their deep
pockets. Well, if we pay for it then we better get a quality product. Ford
needs to own up to their obligations to their loyal customers and fix this
problem. Sorry for the post but this upsets me just a little.

Respectfully,
Chris

P.S. This was not directed at Jim, I am just venting my feelings about this
whole thing.


>From: "Jim Bielecki"
>Reply-To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>To:
>Subject: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheetmetal
>Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:19:32 -0400
>
>
> > What you say is true, but the one way to get Ford's attention is to try
>to
> > hit them harder in the pocketbook than fixing the problem wouldI realize
> > that alone, I'm not a pimple on Ford's rear end, but if a lot of us
>unite,
> > its going to hurt them (not to mention giving Dodge and GM a field day
>in
> > publicity).
>
>Unfortunately it will have no impact at all. Sales-wise, big trucks of any
>make are selling like hotcakes and the manufacturers can't build enough of
>them to meet the demand. The handful who won't buy a Ford because of this
>problem will just be replaced by someone else.
>
>Jim Bielecki
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

______________________________________________________
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:48:35 EDT
From: Wolvrin704 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Tires

I have the BFG all terrains, look awesome! Ride good, not much noise. Great
traction too, can't spin tires at all now unless I powerbreak.

Jeff
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:15:59 -0500
From: "David Moore"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheet metal

Don't tell us - vote with your dollars - buy a vehicle that is "ranked"
better. I think comparing "gang bangers" to Ford's service policy is a bit
much though. Every vehicle has problems that the manufacturers know about -
even "common" ones. The best example I can recall is the PPG paint pealing
problems - that was many times more troublesome and they never "really"
owned up to it. Let's face it - if it's not safety related (and even then
they try to get out of it) many vehicle manufactures do not wish to fix the
problem (for obvious reasons).

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Christian Bagley
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 10:22 AM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheetmetal


So basically you are saying just roll over and let them do what they want to
do. I guess we should just let gang bangers go around and shoot up everyone
and not hold them to the same laws we obey. After all they are going to do
what they want to do anyway. Well, we are not going to do that, the police
still enforce thoses laws that we live by to keep order. If we let big
corporations continue to "screw" the us, the consumers, and if they do not
hold themselves accountable for the inaccuaracies of their product and
obvious flaws in the build of the product then the day will come when we are
completely controlled and no longer have any choice and will have to accept
what the manufacturer sells. It is terrible that we as an American society,
no longer demand quality and just accept what is sold to us. This "crack"
may be a small flaw but it WILL result in big complications if it goes
un-treated and Ford will not do anything for those who have no existing
warranty left even though they know that this is a fault of their own and
due to them trying to cut corners in order to increase their profit margin
for the executives and stock holders, well guess who gets stuck with the
bill. It's the little man(consumer & businesses) who pays for their deep
pockets. Well, if we pay for it then we better get a quality product. Ford
needs to own up to their obligations to their loyal customers and fix this
problem. Sorry for the post but this upsets me just a little.

Respectfully,
Chris

P.S. This was not directed at Jim, I am just venting my feelings about this
whole thing.


>From: "Jim Bielecki"
>Reply-To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>To:
>Subject: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheetmetal
>Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:19:32 -0400
>
>
> > What you say is true, but the one way to get Ford's attention is to try
>to
> > hit them harder in the pocketbook than fixing the problem wouldI realize
> > that alone, I'm not a pimple on Ford's rear end, but if a lot of us
>unite,
> > its going to hurt them (not to mention giving Dodge and GM a field day
>in
> > publicity).
>
>Unfortunately it will have no impact at all. Sales-wise, big trucks of any
>make are selling like hotcakes and the manufacturers can't build enough of
>them to meet the demand. The handful who won't buy a Ford because of this
>problem will just be replaced by someone else.
>
>Jim Bielecki
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

______________________________________________________
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:06:20 EDT
From: "Christian Bagley"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheet metal

I used that comparison to make a point(Over dramatazation).


>From: "David Moore"
>Reply-To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheet metal
>Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:15:59 -0500
>
>Don't tell us - vote with your dollars - buy a vehicle that is "ranked"
>better. I think comparing "gang bangers" to Ford's service policy is a bit
>much though. Every vehicle has problems that the manufacturers know about
>-
>even "common" ones. The best example I can recall is the PPG paint pealing
>problems - that was many times more troublesome and they never "really"
>owned up to it. Let's face it - if it's not safety related (and even then
>they try to get out of it) many vehicle manufactures do not wish to fix the
>problem (for obvious reasons).
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
>[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Christian Bagley
>Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 10:22 AM
>To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheetmetal
>
>
>So basically you are saying just roll over and let them do what they want
>to
>do. I guess we should just let gang bangers go around and shoot up
>everyone
>and not hold them to the same laws we obey. After all they are going to do
>what they want to do anyway. Well, we are not going to do that, the police
>still enforce thoses laws that we live by to keep order. If we let big
>corporations continue to "screw" the us, the consumers, and if they do not
>hold themselves accountable for the inaccuaracies of their product and
>obvious flaws in the build of the product then the day will come when we
>are
>completely controlled and no longer have any choice and will have to accept
>what the manufacturer sells. It is terrible that we as an American
>society,
>no longer demand quality and just accept what is sold to us. This "crack"
>may be a small flaw but it WILL result in big complications if it goes
>un-treated and Ford will not do anything for those who have no existing
>warranty left even though they know that this is a fault of their own and
>due to them trying to cut corners in order to increase their profit margin
>for the executives and stock holders, well guess who gets stuck with the
>bill. It's the little man(consumer & businesses) who pays for their deep
>pockets. Well, if we pay for it then we better get a quality product.
>Ford
>needs to own up to their obligations to their loyal customers and fix this
>problem. Sorry for the post but this upsets me just a little.
>
>Respectfully,
>Chris
>
>P.S. This was not directed at Jim, I am just venting my feelings about
>this
>whole thing.
>
>
> >From: "Jim Bielecki"
> >Reply-To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> >To:
> >Subject: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheetmetal
> >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:19:32 -0400
> >
> >
> > > What you say is true, but the one way to get Ford's attention is to
>try
> >to
> > > hit them harder in the pocketbook than fixing the problem wouldI
>realize
> > > that alone, I'm not a pimple on Ford's rear end, but if a lot of us
> >unite,
> > > its going to hurt them (not to mention giving Dodge and GM a field day
> >in
> > > publicity).
> >
> >Unfortunately it will have no impact at all. Sales-wise, big trucks of
>any
> >make are selling like hotcakes and the manufacturers can't build enough
>of
> >them to meet the demand. The handful who won't buy a Ford because of
>this
> >problem will just be replaced by someone else.
> >
> >Jim Bielecki
> >
> >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
>______________________________________________________
> >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

______________________________________________________
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:08:53 EDT
From: "Christian Bagley"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheet metal

I used that comparison to make a point(Over dramatization).


>From: "David Moore"
>Reply-To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheet metal
>Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:15:59 -0500
>
>Don't tell us - vote with your dollars - buy a vehicle that is "ranked"
>better. I think comparing "gang bangers" to Ford's service policy is a bit
>much though. Every vehicle has problems that the manufacturers know about
>-
>even "common" ones. The best example I can recall is the PPG paint pealing
>problems - that was many times more troublesome and they never "really"
>owned up to it. Let's face it - if it's not safety related (and even then
>they try to get out of it) many vehicle manufactures do not wish to fix the
>problem (for obvious reasons).
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
>[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Christian Bagley
>Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 10:22 AM
>To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheetmetal
>
>
>So basically you are saying just roll over and let them do what they want
>to
>do. I guess we should just let gang bangers go around and shoot up
>everyone
>and not hold them to the same laws we obey. After all they are going to do
>what they want to do anyway. Well, we are not going to do that, the police
>still enforce thoses laws that we live by to keep order. If we let big
>corporations continue to "screw" the us, the consumers, and if they do not
>hold themselves accountable for the inaccuaracies of their product and
>obvious flaws in the build of the product then the day will come when we
>are
>completely controlled and no longer have any choice and will have to accept
>what the manufacturer sells. It is terrible that we as an American
>society,
>no longer demand quality and just accept what is sold to us. This "crack"
>may be a small flaw but it WILL result in big complications if it goes
>un-treated and Ford will not do anything for those who have no existing
>warranty left even though they know that this is a fault of their own and
>due to them trying to cut corners in order to increase their profit margin
>for the executives and stock holders, well guess who gets stuck with the
>bill. It's the little man(consumer & businesses) who pays for their deep
>pockets. Well, if we pay for it then we better get a quality product.
>Ford
>needs to own up to their obligations to their loyal customers and fix this
>problem. Sorry for the post but this upsets me just a little.
>
>Respectfully,
>Chris
>
>P.S. This was not directed at Jim, I am just venting my feelings about
>this
>whole thing.
>
>
> >From: "Jim Bielecki"
> >Reply-To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> >To:
> >Subject: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheetmetal
> >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:19:32 -0400
> >
> >
> > > What you say is true, but the one way to get Ford's attention is to
>try
> >to
> > > hit them harder in the pocketbook than fixing the problem wouldI
>realize
> > > that alone, I'm not a pimple on Ford's rear end, but if a lot of us
> >unite,
> > > its going to hurt them (not to mention giving Dodge and GM a field day
> >in
> > > publicity).
> >
> >Unfortunately it will have no impact at all. Sales-wise, big trucks of
>any
> >make are selling like hotcakes and the manufacturers can't build enough
>of
> >them to meet the demand. The handful who won't buy a Ford because of
>this
> >problem will just be replaced by someone else.
> >
> >Jim Bielecki
> >
> >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
>______________________________________________________
> >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

______________________________________________________
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:12:15 EDT
From: "Christian Bagley"
Subject: FTE 97up - 97up -Rust on Chrome & Cracked door Sheet metal

Sorry for the double post on the door crack thing. I do have a question for
everyone though. What can I do to get some pretty hefty rust off of my
chrome brush guard? Thanks

Chris


>From: "Christian Bagley"
>Reply-To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheet metal
>Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:06:20 EDT
>
>I used that comparison to make a point(Over dramatazation).
>
>
>>From: "David Moore"
>>Reply-To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>>To:
>>Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheet metal
>>Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:15:59 -0500
>>
>>Don't tell us - vote with your dollars - buy a vehicle that is "ranked"
>>better. I think comparing "gang bangers" to Ford's service policy is a
>>bit
>>much though. Every vehicle has problems that the manufacturers know about
>>-
>>even "common" ones. The best example I can recall is the PPG paint
>>pealing
>>problems - that was many times more troublesome and they never "really"
>>owned up to it. Let's face it - if it's not safety related (and even then
>>they try to get out of it) many vehicle manufactures do not wish to fix
>>the
>>problem (for obvious reasons).
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
>>[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Christian Bagley
>>Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 10:22 AM
>>To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>>Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheetmetal
>>
>>
>>So basically you are saying just roll over and let them do what they want
>>to
>>do. I guess we should just let gang bangers go around and shoot up
>>everyone
>>and not hold them to the same laws we obey. After all they are going to
>>do
>>what they want to do anyway. Well, we are not going to do that, the
>>police
>>still enforce thoses laws that we live by to keep order. If we let big
>>corporations continue to "screw" the us, the consumers, and if they do not
>>hold themselves accountable for the inaccuaracies of their product and
>>obvious flaws in the build of the product then the day will come when we
>>are
>>completely controlled and no longer have any choice and will have to
>>accept
>>what the manufacturer sells. It is terrible that we as an American
>>society,
>>no longer demand quality and just accept what is sold to us. This "crack"
>>may be a small flaw but it WILL result in big complications if it goes
>>un-treated and Ford will not do anything for those who have no existing
>>warranty left even though they know that this is a fault of their own and
>>due to them trying to cut corners in order to increase their profit margin
>>for the executives and stock holders, well guess who gets stuck with the
>>bill. It's the little man(consumer & businesses) who pays for their deep
>>pockets. Well, if we pay for it then we better get a quality product.
>>Ford
>>needs to own up to their obligations to their loyal customers and fix this
>>problem. Sorry for the post but this upsets me just a little.
>>
>>Respectfully,
>>Chris
>>
>>P.S. This was not directed at Jim, I am just venting my feelings about
>>this
>>whole thing.
>>
>>
>> >From: "Jim Bielecki"
>> >Reply-To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>> >To:
>> >Subject: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheetmetal
>> >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:19:32 -0400
>> >
>> >
>> > > What you say is true, but the one way to get Ford's attention is to
>>try
>> >to
>> > > hit them harder in the pocketbook than fixing the problem wouldI
>>realize
>> > > that alone, I'm not a pimple on Ford's rear end, but if a lot of us
>> >unite,
>> > > its going to hurt them (not to mention giving Dodge and GM a field
>>day
>> >in
>> > > publicity).
>> >
>> >Unfortunately it will have no impact at all. Sales-wise, big trucks of
>>any
>> >make are selling like hotcakes and the manufacturers can't build enough
>>of
>> >them to meet the demand. The handful who won't buy a Ford because of
>>this
>> >problem will just be replaced by someone else.
>> >
>> >Jim Bielecki
>> >
>> >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>>
>>______________________________________________________
>> >>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>>
>>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
>______________________________________________________
> >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

______________________________________________________
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:22:16 -0400
From: Jean Marc Chartier
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheetmetal

kpayne ford-trucks.com wrote:
>
> Jim Bielecki wrote:
> -snip-
> >
> > Unfortunately it will have no impact at all. Sales-wise, big trucks of any
> > make are selling like hotcakes and the manufacturers can't build enough of
> > them to meet the demand. The handful who won't buy a Ford because of this
> > problem will just be replaced by someone else.
> >
> > Jim Bielecki
> >
>
> BINGO! This is no different than the recent fiasco with
> Toyota refusing to fix emission problems with all their
> cars made for the last 5 years for the California market.
>
> Ken
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

Ken,

Think back to the lug nuts. Ford finally got around to
recalling all the affected trucks. I remember back on
another list in 1997 when the first person complained about
loosing a wheel and the impending law suit. Ford will get
around to fixing the problem. Ford knows about the problem,
refer to the Special service message (ssm 12071 )that Nathan
posted. Ford is working on a fix. It will be dealt with.
I hate to say this but give the info to Blue Oval News and
let them run with it.

Regards

Jean Marc Chartier
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:24:23 -0400
From: Jean Marc Chartier
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - engine question???

RSnovi aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 99-09-14 08:00:36 EDT, you write:
>
> again 2 valve and 4 valves are not the same, i would like to see how you plan
> on actuateing 4 vavles per cylinder with 2 cams.
>
> RS
>

RS,

It is simple. Two lobes per cam per cylinder. SOHC have
only one lobe per cam per cylinder.

Regards

Jean Marc Chartier
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:31:57 -0400
From: Jean Marc Chartier
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - engine question???

Dean Baruffi wrote:
>
> This is how I invision it:
>
> The truck (Windsor and Romeo) 4.6L and 5.4L have one chain going to each
> head to control the cam movement. I don't know how the DOHC actuates 2
> cams on each head (2 independent chains purhaps?), but what ever the
> Navigator does to actuates both cams on each head, that is the method I
> would use. It should not be brain surgery.
>
> The easiest method (and more expensive) would be an engine swap.
>
> It's nice to dream.
>
> -Dean Baruffi
>
Dean,

The chain drives two sprockets on each head. Intake cam
sprocket and exhaust cam sprocket. They are side by side.
Go look at a Jap DOHC motor and you will notice the bulge in
the front where the two sprockets are. Another popular
method is to have the front chain drive only one cam and the
back ends of both cams are fitted with sprockets and a
chain.

Regards

Jean Marc Chartier
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:37:23 -0500
From: "Strukel, Mike"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - 97up -Rust on Chrome & Cracked door Sheet metal

Pour some Coke on it and use aluminum foil to scrub it. Sounds strange,
but works.

Mike Strukel

- -----Original Message-----
From: Christian Bagley [mailto:c_bagley hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 12:12 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 97up - 97up -Rust on Chrome & Cracked door Sheet metal


Sorry for the double post on the door crack thing. I do have a question for

everyone though. What can I do to get some pretty hefty rust off of my
chrome brush guard? Thanks

Chris


>From: "Christian Bagley"
>Reply-To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheet metal
>Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:06:20 EDT
>
>I used that comparison to make a point(Over dramatazation).
>
>
>>From: "David Moore"
>>Reply-To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>>To:
>>Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheet metal
>>Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:15:59 -0500
>>
>>Don't tell us - vote with your dollars - buy a vehicle that is "ranked"
>>better. I think comparing "gang bangers" to Ford's service policy is a
>>bit
>>much though. Every vehicle has problems that the manufacturers know about
>>-
>>even "common" ones. The best example I can recall is the PPG paint
>>pealing
>>problems - that was many times more troublesome and they never "really"
>>owned up to it. Let's face it - if it's not safety related (and even then
>>they try to get out of it) many vehicle manufactures do not wish to fix
>>the
>>problem (for obvious reasons).
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
>>[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Christian Bagley
>>Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 10:22 AM
>>To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>>Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheetmetal
>>
>>
>>So basically you are saying just roll over and let them do what they want
>>to
>>do. I guess we should just let gang bangers go around and shoot up
>>everyone
>>and not hold them to the same laws we obey. After all they are going to
>>do
>>what they want to do anyway. Well, we are not going to do that, the
>>police
>>still enforce thoses laws that we live by to keep order. If we let big
>>corporations continue to "screw" the us, the consumers, and if they do not
>>hold themselves accountable for the inaccuaracies of their product and
>>obvious flaws in the build of the product then the day will come when we
>>are
>>completely controlled and no longer have any choice and will have to
>>accept
>>what the manufacturer sells. It is terrible that we as an American
>>society,
>>no longer demand quality and just accept what is sold to us. This "crack"
>>may be a small flaw but it WILL result in big complications if it goes
>>un-treated and Ford will not do anything for those who have no existing
>>warranty left even though they know that this is a fault of their own and
>>due to them trying to cut corners in order to increase their profit margin
>>for the executives and stock holders, well guess who gets stuck with the
>>bill. It's the little man(consumer & businesses) who pays for their deep
>>pockets. Well, if we pay for it then we better get a quality product.
>>Ford
>>needs to own up to their obligations to their loyal customers and fix this
>>problem. Sorry for the post but this upsets me just a little.
>>
>>Respectfully,
>>Chris
>>
>>P.S. This was not directed at Jim, I am just venting my feelings about
>>this
>>whole thing.
>>
>>
>> >From: "Jim Bielecki"
>> >Reply-To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>> >To:
>> >Subject: FTE 97up - Re: 97up -Cracked door Sheetmetal
>> >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:19:32 -0400
>> >
>> >
>> > > What you say is true, but the one way to get Ford's attention is to
>>try
>> >to
>> > > hit them harder in the pocketbook than fixing the problem wouldI
>>realize
>> > > that alone, I'm not a pimple on Ford's rear end, but if a lot of us
>> >unite,
>> > > its going to hurt them (not to mention giving Dodge and GM a field
>>day
>> >in
>> > > publicity).
>> >
>> >Unfortunately it will have no impact at all. Sales-wise, big trucks of
>>any
>> >make are selling like hotcakes and the manufacturers can't build enough
>>of
>> >them to meet the demand. The handful who won't buy a Ford because of
>>this
>> >problem will just be replaced by someone else.
>> >
>> >Jim Bielecki
>> >
>> >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>>
>>______________________________________________________
>> >>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>>
>>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
>______________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:43:02 EDT
From: RSnovi aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Tires

might i ask what size you are using on the BFGs?

On a side note today i could not get an alignment for the first time because
a 142"wb would not fit the rack, it was too long....i never had a problem
with my 89 4x4 F150 but who knows i never used these guys before. jezz! I
did get rotate and balance on my 265/75 Steeltex Atx's they moron that was
doing it said they were only out .50 or so.

RS


Date: 99-09-14 11:51:27 EDT
From: Wolvrin704 aol.com
Sender: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
Reply-to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com

I have the BFG all terrains, look awesome! Ride good, not much noise. Great
traction too, can't spin tires at all now unless I powerbreak.

Jeff
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Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Tires
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Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:45:12 EDT
From: RSnovi aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - engine question???

In a message dated 99-09-14 13:35:43 EDT, you write:


in other words....too many parts!


RS

The chain drives two sprockets on each head. Intake cam
sprocket and exhaust cam sprocket. They are side by side.
Go look at a Jap DOHC motor and you will notice the bulge in
the front where the two sprockets are. Another popular
method is to have the front chain drive only one cam and the
back ends of both cams are fitted with sprockets and a
chain.

Regards

Jean Marc Chartier
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Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:45:55 -0500
From: Stan Wright
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - engine question???

The camshafts are side-by-side. One cam works the intake valves, and the other
works the exhaust valves.

RSnovi aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 99-09-14 08:00:36 EDT, you write:
>
> again 2 valve and 4 valves are not the same, i would like to see how you plan
> on actuateing 4 vavles per cylinder with 2 cams.
>
> RS
>
>
> Date: 99-09-14 08:00:36 EDT
> From: dean.baruffi yale.edu (Dean Baruffi)
> Sender: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Reply-to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>
> Yes, I understand that, but is the difference in the valve train alone? If
> so the heads with the DOHC will have all the valve train components needed
> for the conversion (since it is an overhead cam design)
>
> Higher rpms will come with the cam replacement which would come with the
> head swap.
>
> -Dean Baruffi
>
> At 10:58 PM 9/13/99 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> >two different animals, you are speaking DOHC and SOHC, 2 valve and 4v. 5.4
> >is a SOHC, yes it is a stroked 4.6 SOHC, but it is still a dog. Higher rpm
> >is the only way to get some decent hp.
> >
> >RS
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Ok, now for the real brain teaser:
> > >
> > > I assume the block for the 4.6L Cobra and 4.6L truck are different, but
> > > will the Cobra heads (and valve train) fit on the 4.6L truck engine? If
> > > so, since the 4.6L and 5.4L have similar blocks, will the Cobra heads fit
> > > on the 5.4L block?
> > >
> > > I would love to put these heads on my 2000 F-150 5.4L or the Navigators
> 4V
> > > heads. Any comments?
> > >
> > >
> > > -Dean Baruffi
> >
> > Now that's a puzzler. I have heard that the 5.4 is a stroked 4.6L, but
> > I have heard otherwise in different places. If that is possible, that
> would
> > rock.
> >
> > --
> > Douglas R. Floyd | PGP key fingerprints
> > | DSS:
> >70A06BB5F1C24B1732AD6B0679C2FCB2329E0766
> > Disclaimer: | RSA: 94E90F86BB073368ACA4C9931AF214D5
> > I speak for myself, not my employer.
> > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> >
> >
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> >ford-trucks.com (8.8.5) id QAA18697; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:12:37 -0400 (EDT)
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> > by hastur.fnord.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id PAA06493
> > for 97up-list ford-trucks.com; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:12:36 -0500
> > From: "Douglas R. Floyd"
> > Message-Id:
> > Subject: Re: FTE 97up - engine question???
> > To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> > Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:12:35 -0500 (CDT)
> > In-Reply-To: from "Dean....


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