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97up-list-digest Monday, September 13 1999 Volume 02 : Number 245



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax
Re: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax
RE: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax
Re: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax
Re: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax
RE: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax
RE: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax
RE: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax
RE: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Need a pickup bed
RE: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax
RE: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax
Re: FTE 97up - Cracked Door Sheetmetal
RE: FTE 97up - Cracked Door Sheetmetal
Re: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax
Re: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax
Re: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax
Re: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax
FTE 97up - Excursion!
FTE 97up - Cracked Door Sheetmetal

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:22:03 -0500
From: jmann living.com
Subject: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax

Can someone please explain, briefly, the gas guzzler tax and when it's
applied. Depending on this answer, I may drop the 4x4 from my 2000 F-150
order.

Thanks,

Joe
Austin, TX

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:57:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Douglas R. Floyd"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax

Check www.edmunds.com -- They should have an estimate on whether the gas
guzzler tax applies to your vehicle or not. IMHO, I don't think it applies,
as a 4x4 doesn't get that much worse milage than a 4x2.

>
> Can someone please explain, briefly, the gas guzzler tax and when it's
> applied. Depending on this answer, I may drop the 4x4 from my 2000 F-150
> order.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe
> Austin, TX
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>


- --
Douglas R. Floyd | PGP key fingerprints
| DSS: 70A06BB5F1C24B1732AD6B0679C2FCB2329E0766
Disclaimer: | RSA: 94E90F86BB073368ACA4C9931AF214D5
I speak for myself, not my employer.
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:57:22 -0500
From: "David Moore"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/26/4064.html

At least 22.5 $0
At least 21.5 but less than 22.5 1,000
At least 20.5 but less than 21.5 1,300
At least 19.5 but less than 20.5 1,700
At least 18.5 but less than 19.5 2,100
At least 17.5 but less than 18.5 2,600
At least 16.5 but less than 17.5 3,000
At least 15.5 but less than 16.5 3,700
At least 14.5 but less than 15.5 4,500
At least 13.5 but less than 14.5 5,400
At least 12.5 but less than 13.5 6,400
Less than 12.5 7,700.

"The "gas guzzler" tax. This tax is imposed on new cars that fail to meet
federal fuel economy standards. Although this tax is imposed on the
manufacturer, it becomes part of the retail price."

Just check the search engines

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of jmann living.com
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 1999 10:22 AM
To: perf-list ford-trucks.com; 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax


Can someone please explain, briefly, the gas guzzler tax and when it's
applied. Depending on this answer, I may drop the 4x4 from my 2000 F-150
order.

Thanks,

Joe
Austin, TX

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:16:22 -0400
From: "Gilbert D. Warren"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax

Trucks do not matter what the gas mileage is. Anything F250 or above are exempt

"Douglas R. Floyd" wrote:

> Check www.edmunds.com -- They should have an estimate on whether the gas
> guzzler tax applies to your vehicle or not. IMHO, I don't think it applies,
> as a 4x4 doesn't get that much worse milage than a 4x2.
>
> >
> > Can someone please explain, briefly, the gas guzzler tax and when it's
> > applied. Depending on this answer, I may drop the 4x4 from my 2000 F-150
> > order.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Joe
> > Austin, TX
> >
> > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> >
>
> --
> Douglas R. Floyd | PGP key fingerprints
> | DSS: 70A06BB5F1C24B1732AD6B0679C2FCB2329E0766
> Disclaimer: | RSA: 94E90F86BB073368ACA4C9931AF214D5
> I speak for myself, not my employer.
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:34:58 EDT
From: RSnovi aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax

In a message dated 99-09-12 12:59:59 EDT, you write:


you would think they would enforce the tax a bit more, i think it applys more
on cars than trucks,because i have not heard of anyone buying a truck lately
getting nailed by it unless you are in a big town or something strange. I
have to look up the stipulations on the law, i think it is a mostly state to
state issue.

RS

Date: 99-09-12 12:59:59 EDT
From: dfloyd fnord.com (Douglas R. Floyd)
Sender: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
Reply-to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
CC: perf-list ford-trucks.com

Check www.edmunds.com -- They should have an estimate on whether the gas
guzzler tax applies to your vehicle or not. IMHO, I don't think it applies,
as a 4x4 doesn't get that much worse milage than a 4x2.

>
> Can someone please explain, briefly, the gas guzzler tax and when it's
> applied. Depending on this answer, I may drop the 4x4 from my 2000 F-150
> order.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe
> Austin, TX
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>


--
Douglas R. Floyd | PGP key fingerprints
| DSS:
70A06BB5F1C24B1732AD6B0679C2FCB2329E0766
Disclaimer: | RSA: 94E90F86BB073368ACA4C9931AF214D5
I speak for myself, not my employer.
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Subject: Re: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:57:33 -0500 (CDT)
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:49:09 -0500
From: "David Moore"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax

In my humble opinion they should just skip the entire gas guzzler tax and
raise federal tax on the price of gas/diesel. Then everyone is equally
taxed.

David

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of RSnovi aol.com
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 1999 1:35 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax


In a message dated 99-09-12 12:59:59 EDT, you write:


you would think they would enforce the tax a bit more, i think it applys
more
on cars than trucks,because i have not heard of anyone buying a truck lately
getting nailed by it unless you are in a big town or something strange. I
have to look up the stipulations on the law, i think it is a mostly state to
state issue.

RS

Date: 99-09-12 12:59:59 EDT
From: dfloyd fnord.com (Douglas R. Floyd)
Sender: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
Reply-to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
CC: perf-list ford-trucks.com

Check www.edmunds.com -- They should have an estimate on whether the gas
guzzler tax applies to your vehicle or not. IMHO, I don't think it
applies,
as a 4x4 doesn't get that much worse milage than a 4x2.

>
> Can someone please explain, briefly, the gas guzzler tax and when it's
> applied. Depending on this answer, I may drop the 4x4 from my 2000 F-150
> order.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe
> Austin, TX
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>


--
Douglas R. Floyd | PGP key fingerprints
| DSS:
70A06BB5F1C24B1732AD6B0679C2FCB2329E0766
Disclaimer: | RSA: 94E90F86BB073368ACA4C9931AF214D5
I speak for myself, not my employer.
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html


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From: "Douglas R. Floyd"
Message-Id:
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:57:33 -0500 (CDT)
Cc: perf-list ford-trucks.com
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:08:34 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax

At 02:49 PM 9/12/99 -0500, you wrote:
>In my humble opinion they should just skip the entire gas guzzler tax and
>raise federal tax on the price of gas/diesel. Then everyone is equally
>taxed.
>
>David

In my opinion, they should remove it and NOT raise
gas taxes. Instead, operate like a business does
and get more efficient so they can get more done
with less money.

Ken

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:37:47 -0500
From: "David Moore"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax

Well with less than 80 years of oil reserves left and mounting polution
problems - it seems the fastest way to take into account for the "other"
costs of fossial fuels is a tax - no different than all the EU countries do.
If gas was 2.50 do you think people like myself would be tooling back and
forth to work in 7000lb trucks? No - I doubt so.

Remove all CAFE standards and just raise the gas taxes at the federal level.



- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Ken Payne
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 1999 3:09 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax


At 02:49 PM 9/12/99 -0500, you wrote:
>In my humble opinion they should just skip the entire gas guzzler tax and
>raise federal tax on the price of gas/diesel. Then everyone is equally
>taxed.
>
>David

In my opinion, they should remove it and NOT raise
gas taxes. Instead, operate like a business does
and get more efficient so they can get more done
with less money.

Ken

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:45:50 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax

At 03:37 PM 9/12/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Well with less than 80 years of oil reserves left and mounting polution
>problems - it seems the fastest way to take into account for the "other"
>costs of fossial fuels is a tax - no different than all the EU countries do.
>If gas was 2.50 do you think people like myself would be tooling back and
>forth to work in 7000lb trucks? No - I doubt so.
>
>Remove all CAFE standards and just raise the gas taxes at the federal level.
>

The average American is already paying in excess of
40% of their income in taxes. Raise Federal MINIMUM
standards for mileage and the auto companies will be
forced to come up with ways to increase milage.
Unlike the Democrats, I don't believe taxation is
the solution to all problems. Unfortunately, they
know that giving special tax favors or incentives
different groups gets votes, hence they use taxes
to dictate behavior. That's not what this country
was founded on. And, in case you were not aware,
the duration of our resources actually goes UP with
each year. In the 60s we had less than 40 years
reserve, in the 70s, 50 years. Now its over 70.


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:26:54 -0700
From: The Hepburn
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Need a pickup bed

Lee Haefele wrote:
>
> You can find all this info in the Ford "Bodybuilder's Guide" that your
> dealer will have a copy of. I can measure a 450 & 550 chassis that sit
> across from my office, or fax you a picture from the body builder guide
> that I swiped from my dealer, if you e.mail me your fax #.

You can get your own copy of the Body Fitter's guide by going to the
Meadowland Ford web site (http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.meadowlandford.com) you need
Acrobat Reader to view, save, or print it, but that's also available
there if you don't have it. The guide has more information on ALL the
superduty chassis than you ever thought you'd need.

Alan Hepburn
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:37:50 -0500
From: jmann living.com
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax

Natural resources, however long they last, will run out some day. The human
population of the earth doubles, on average, every 50 years. We crossed 6
billion people this year, and before most of you leave this lovely planet,
we will have reach over 12 billion. If you think this little sphere that's
merely 25,000 miles round, with a total surface of 290 million miles, over
three quarters of which is uninhabitable, will continue to pump out natural
resources indefinitely for the parasites that crawl across its
surface....WAKE UP!

Wow, did I say that?

Flames away....go for it baby!

Oh yeah, I love my FROD TRUCK! :)


PS: I feel much better now....


- -----Original Message-----
From: Ken Payne [mailto:kpayne ford-trucks.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 1999 3:46 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax

At 03:37 PM 9/12/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Well with less than 80 years of oil reserves left and mounting polution
>problems - it seems the fastest way to take into account for the "other"
>costs of fossial fuels is a tax - no different than all the EU countries
do.
>If gas was 2.50 do you think people like myself would be tooling back and
>forth to work in 7000lb trucks? No - I doubt so.
>
>Remove all CAFE standards and just raise the gas taxes at the federal
level.
>

The average American is already paying in excess of
40% of their income in taxes. Raise Federal MINIMUM
standards for mileage and the auto companies will be
forced to come up with ways to increase milage.
Unlike the Democrats, I don't believe taxation is
the solution to all problems. Unfortunately, they
know that giving special tax favors or incentives
different groups gets votes, hence they use taxes
to dictate behavior. That's not what this country
was founded on. And, in case you were not aware,
the duration of our resources actually goes UP with
each year. In the 60s we had less than 40 years
reserve, in the 70s, 50 years. Now its over 70.


== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:43:37 -0500
From: "pennhead"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax

Yeah, I love my FROD too...

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of jmann living.com
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 1999 8:38 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax


Natural resources, however long they last, will run out some day. The human
population of the earth doubles, on average, every 50 years. We crossed 6
billion people this year, and before most of you leave this lovely planet,
we will have reach over 12 billion. If you think this little sphere that's
merely 25,000 miles round, with a total surface of 290 million miles, over
three quarters of which is uninhabitable, will continue to pump out natural
resources indefinitely for the parasites that crawl across its
surface....WAKE UP!

Wow, did I say that?

Flames away....go for it baby!

Oh yeah, I love my FROD TRUCK! :)


PS: I feel much better now....


- -----Original Message-----
From: Ken Payne [mailto:kpayne ford-trucks.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 1999 3:46 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax

At 03:37 PM 9/12/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Well with less than 80 years of oil reserves left and mounting polution
>problems - it seems the fastest way to take into account for the "other"
>costs of fossial fuels is a tax - no different than all the EU countries
do.
>If gas was 2.50 do you think people like myself would be tooling back and
>forth to work in 7000lb trucks? No - I doubt so.
>
>Remove all CAFE standards and just raise the gas taxes at the federal
level.
>

The average American is already paying in excess of
40% of their income in taxes. Raise Federal MINIMUM
standards for mileage and the auto companies will be
forced to come up with ways to increase milage.
Unlike the Democrats, I don't believe taxation is
the solution to all problems. Unfortunately, they
know that giving special tax favors or incentives
different groups gets votes, hence they use taxes
to dictate behavior. That's not what this country
was founded on. And, in case you were not aware,
the duration of our resources actually goes UP with
each year. In the 60s we had less than 40 years
reserve, in the 70s, 50 years. Now its over 70.


== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:18:19 -0400
From: "Freddy Favela"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Cracked Door Sheetmetal

Does this Crack on the door affect the new 99 models??
- -----Original Message-----
From: Rob
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Cracked Door Sheetmetal


>yep... your in the right place. the crack will form right at the top of
>the curved molding where it enters the inside cavity of the door. i read
>the NHTSA complaints database (took about an hour!) and saw 2 reports of
>this, one as early as may 15 1998... both reports were in 1998...
>certainly isolated cases back then, but look now.
>
>rob in PA
>
>"Owens, Robbie A" wrote:
>>
>> I just went outside and put the windows completely down. Pulled the
weather
>> stripping off of the frame on the drivers and passengers side window, and
>> looked at the top back side corner and found nothing on either side all
the
>> way down to the bottom corner just above the door handle. I'm looking in
>> the right place right?
>> Rob Owens
>> Boeing Aerospace Operations
>> Buyer
>> Navy E-6 Program
>> 405-739-1953
>>
>> > ----------
>> > From: Rob[SMTP:lonewolf-97 home.com]
>> > Reply To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>> > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 9:37 AM
>> > To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>> > Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Cracked Door Sheetmetal
>> >
>> > rob... the crack is about 1/4 inch down from the top of the curved
>> > piece of molding at the rear (not bottom) of the window. to lift the
>> > molding you have to have the window down! this tightness (when up) and
>> > looseness when down (the flexing of the sheet metal) is whats causing
>> > this to happen... i looked at this on mine yesterday, sprayed it with
>> > wd40 with the straw and painted with touch up paint. it will probably
>> > crack again. the crack dont bother me as much as the thought of rust
>> > right there. i saw that this is where the window cutout ends (from that
>> > point up the rear of the door is solid) maybe better said from that
>> > point up the window is outside of the inside of the door. it is a built
>> > in, natural hinge point for the flex of the metal. watch it as you put
>> > your window down and up, boy does it flex. if you do not have the
>> > problem now - you will if you do not get the proposed stiffener put in.
>> > of course that depends on how much you put the windows up and down when
>> > it will happen, but it will happen sooner or later. i just hope the
>> > crack doesnt spread anymore on mine.
>> >
>> > rob in PA
>> >
>> > "Owens, Robbie A" wrote:
>> > >
>> > > What are you all using to lift the weather stripping? I just went
>> > outside
>> > > to look at mine and I saw nothing outside the weather stripping.
This
>> > crack
>> > > is on the drivers side starting in the bottom corner above the door
>> > handle
>> > > right? I tried to lift up the stripping but it is too stiff. How
did
>> > you
>> > > all lift it up?
>> > > Rob Owens
>> > > Boeing Aerospace Operations
>> > > Buyer
>> > > Navy E-6 Program
>> > > 405-739-1953
>> > >
>> > > > ----------
>> > > > From: dlsipe webtv.net[SMTP:dlsipe webtv.net]
>> > > > Reply To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 5:36 AM
>> > > > To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>> > > > Subject: FTE 97up - Cracked Door Sheetmetal
>> > > >
>> > > > 1. Ken - thanks for posting the survey.
>> > > > 2. I sent letters to the editors of Truckin and Truck Trend
magazines
>> > > > detailing the problems and Ford's lack of response to those beyond
the
>> > > > 3/36 warranty.
>> > > > 3. I strongly suggest that all those who have this problem file a
>> > > > complaint with the NTHSA. This can be done at dot.gov
>> > > > 4. Spread the word to fellow 97+ F150 owners. There is strength
in
>> > > > numbers!
>> > > >
>> > > > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info
>> > http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>> > > >
>> > > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info
http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>> > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info
http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>> >
>> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:36:38 -0500
From: "pennhead"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Cracked Door Sheetmetal

Not yet, anyway. If you closely examine a 97 or 98 model, comparing it with
your 99, there appears to be a subtle difference in the sheet metal at the
lower rear corner of the side windows. Perhaps a more pronounced flange?
The window (or molding) appears to sit farther into the sheet metal...
hmmm... Is it just my imagination, or have others noticed this? Perhaps
Ford was aware of this flaw, and have taken care of the problem?

Guys, check your 99's, and compare them with earlier models if you can.

Regards,
Penn

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Freddy Favela
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 1999 9:18 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Cracked Door Sheetmetal


Does this Crack on the door affect the new 99 models??
- -----Original Message-----
From: Rob
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Cracked Door Sheetmetal


>yep... your in the right place. the crack will form right at the top of
>the curved molding where it enters the inside cavity of the door. i read
>the NHTSA complaints database (took about an hour!) and saw 2 reports of
>this, one as early as may 15 1998... both reports were in 1998...
>certainly isolated cases back then, but look now.
>
>rob in PA
>
>"Owens, Robbie A" wrote:
>>
>> I just went outside and put the windows completely down. Pulled the
weather
>> stripping off of the frame on the drivers and passengers side window, and
>> looked at the top back side corner and found nothing on either side all
the
>> way down to the bottom corner just above the door handle. I'm looking in
>> the right place right?
>> Rob Owens
>> Boeing Aerospace Operations
>> Buyer
>> Navy E-6 Program
>> 405-739-1953
>>
>> > ----------
>> > From: Rob[SMTP:lonewolf-97 home.com]
>> > Reply To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>> > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 9:37 AM
>> > To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>> > Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Cracked Door Sheetmetal
>> >
>> > rob... the crack is about 1/4 inch down from the top of the curved
>> > piece of molding at the rear (not bottom) of the window. to lift the
>> > molding you have to have the window down! this tightness (when up) and
>> > looseness when down (the flexing of the sheet metal) is whats causing
>> > this to happen... i looked at this on mine yesterday, sprayed it with
>> > wd40 with the straw and painted with touch up paint. it will probably
>> > crack again. the crack dont bother me as much as the thought of rust
>> > right there. i saw that this is where the window cutout ends (from that
>> > point up the rear of the door is solid) maybe better said from that
>> > point up the window is outside of the inside of the door. it is a built
>> > in, natural hinge point for the flex of the metal. watch it as you put
>> > your window down and up, boy does it flex. if you do not have the
>> > problem now - you will if you do not get the proposed stiffener put in.
>> > of course that depends on how much you put the windows up and down when
>> > it will happen, but it will happen sooner or later. i just hope the
>> > crack doesnt spread anymore on mine.
>> >
>> > rob in PA
>> >
>> > "Owens, Robbie A" wrote:
>> > >
>> > > What are you all using to lift the weather stripping? I just went
>> > outside
>> > > to look at mine and I saw nothing outside the weather stripping.
This
>> > crack
>> > > is on the drivers side starting in the bottom corner above the door
>> > handle
>> > > right? I tried to lift up the stripping but it is too stiff. How
did
>> > you
>> > > all lift it up?
>> > > Rob Owens
>> > > Boeing Aerospace Operations
>> > > Buyer
>> > > Navy E-6 Program
>> > > 405-739-1953
>> > >
>> > > > ----------
>> > > > From: dlsipe webtv.net[SMTP:dlsipe webtv.net]
>> > > > Reply To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 5:36 AM
>> > > > To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>> > > > Subject: FTE 97up - Cracked Door Sheetmetal
>> > > >
>> > > > 1. Ken - thanks for posting the survey.
>> > > > 2. I sent letters to the editors of Truckin and Truck Trend
magazines
>> > > > detailing the problems and Ford's lack of response to those beyond
the
>> > > > 3/36 warranty.
>> > > > 3. I strongly suggest that all those who have this problem file a
>> > > > complaint with the NTHSA. This can be done at dot.gov
>> > > > 4. Spread the word to fellow 97+ F150 owners. There is strength
in
>> > > > numbers!
>> > > >
>> > > > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info
>> > http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>> > > >
>> > > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info
http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>> > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info
http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>> >
>> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:45:46 -0400
From: "Keith Veren"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax

I don't think these numbers (below) apply to "trucks", "SUVs" and other
"specialty vehicles".


Keith



- ----- Original Message -----
From: David Moore
To:
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 1999 12:57 PM
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax


> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/26/4064.html
>
> At least 22.5 $0
> At least 21.5 but less than 22.5 1,000
> At least 20.5 but less than 21.5 1,300
> At least 19.5 but less than 20.5 1,700
> At least 18.5 but less than 19.5 2,100
> At least 17.5 but less than 18.5 2,600
> At least 16.5 but less than 17.5 3,000
> At least 15.5 but less than 16.5 3,700
> At least 14.5 but less than 15.5 4,500
> At least 13.5 but less than 14.5 5,400
> At least 12.5 but less than 13.5 6,400
> Less than 12.5 7,700.
>
> "The "gas guzzler" tax. This tax is imposed on new cars that fail to meet
> federal fuel economy standards. Although this tax is imposed on the
> manufacturer, it becomes part of the retail price."
>
> Just check the search engines
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
> [mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of jmann living.com
> Sent: Sunday, September 12, 1999 10:22 AM
> To: perf-list ford-trucks.com; 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax
>
>
> Can someone please explain, briefly, the gas guzzler tax and when it's
> applied. Depending on this answer, I may drop the 4x4 from my 2000 F-150
> order.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe
> Austin, TX
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:47:21 -0400
From: "Keith Veren"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax

I couldn't have said it better, Ken!!

Keith


- ----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Payne
To:
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 1999 4:08 PM
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax


> In my opinion, they should remove it and NOT raise
> gas taxes. Instead, operate like a business does
> and get more efficient so they can get more done
> with less money.
>
> Ken
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:55:42 -0400
From: "Keith Veren"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax

David, Do you really believe we only have 80 years of oil left? First of
all, from the 1920's through the 1990's prognosticators and others have
waved the chicken-little flag "we are running out of oil", it will all be
gone in the next [10 years, 15 years, 20 years, 50 years, 100 years, etc.,
etc.]. That's right, more than 70 years ago, in the 1920's, various
"concerned" individuals and groups proclaimed that the oil would all be gone
by the 1930's or, at the latest, the 1940's.

The earth is quite big and there are quite a lot of hiding places for oil,
lots of oil. I do not claim to know how much oil is left, but too many
people have been "crying wolf" for too long!


Keith


- ----- Original Message -----
From: David Moore
To:
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 1999 4:37 PM
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax


> Well with less than 80 years of oil reserves left and mounting polution
> problems - it seems the fastest way to take into account for the "other"
> costs of fossial fuels is a tax - no different than all the EU countries
do.
> If gas was 2.50 do you think people like myself would be tooling back and
> forth to work in 7000lb trucks? No - I doubt so.
>
> Remove all CAFE standards and just raise the gas taxes at the federal
level.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
> [mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Ken Payne
> Sent: Sunday, September 12, 1999 3:09 PM
> To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: RE: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax
>
>
> At 02:49 PM 9/12/99 -0500, you wrote:
> >In my humble opinion they should just skip the entire gas guzzler tax and
> >raise federal tax on the price of gas/diesel. Then everyone is equally
> >taxed.
> >
> >David
>
> In my opinion, they should remove it and NOT raise
> gas taxes. Instead, operate like a business does
> and get more efficient so they can get more done
> with less money.
>
> Ken
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:03:51 -0400
From: "Keith Veren"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax

I agree Ken, about the tax issue. Although I pay all my taxes and feel that
we have a great country, I believe we pay far too much in taxes. The Boston
"Tea-party" was a rebellion against a tax amounting to less than 5% of the
cost of tea!! Those brave patriots would have gone ballistic if the
Government tried to take , in some cases (combined State, Federal, etc.)
more than 50% of their income. They also would probably look at us in
disgust for being such "sheep" and allowing such a monster percentage of our
earnings to be confiscated, even before we get it!! (withholding taxes).

However, to respond to the problem with mileage standards, the main issue is
safety. The lighter the car, the worse the survivability in an accident.

Keith

other problem with a
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Payne
To:
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 1999 4:45 PM
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - gas guzzler tax


> At 03:37 PM 9/12/99 -0500, you wrote:
> >Well with less than 80 years of oil reserves left and mounting polution
> >problems - it seems the fastest way to take into account for the "other"
> >costs of fossial fuels is a tax - no different than all the EU countries
do.
> >If gas was 2.50 do you think people like myself would be tooling back and
> >forth to work in 7000lb trucks? No - I doubt so.
> >
> >Remove all CAFE standards and just raise the gas taxes at the federal
level.
> >
>
> The average American is already paying in excess of
> 40% of their income in taxes. Raise Federal MINIMUM
> standards for mileage and the auto companies will be
> forced to come up with ways to increase milage.
> Unlike the Democrats, I don't believe taxation is
> the solution to all problems. Unfortunately, they
> know that giving special tax favors or incentives
> different groups gets votes, hence they use taxes
> to dictate behavior. That's not what this country
> was founded on. And, in case you were not aware,
> the duration of our resources actually goes UP with
> each year. In the 60s we had less than 40 years
> reserve, in the 70s, 50 years. Now its over 70.
>
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:18:18 -0400
From: "Keith Veren"
Subject: FTE 97up - Excursion!

Just got my first glimpse of an Excursion today. Walked around it and
looked under it. Definitely nice and big. Underside is just like my F-350
SuperDuty, with the exception of the Front Springs being a less arched (the....


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