From: owner-97up-list-digest ford-trucks.com (97up-list-digest)
To: 97up-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Subject: 97up-list-digest V2 #216
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97up-list-digest Saturday, August 14 1999 Volume 02 : Number 216



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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In this issue:

FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question-relay to Keith
FTE 97up - Tires on F-250 Super Duty
Re: FTE 97up - Superchip report
Re: FTE 97up - Superchip report
Re: FTE 97up - Tires on F-250 Super Duty
Re: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question-Reply
FTE 97up - radiator dimensions
RE: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question-Reply
Re: FTE 97up - Tires on F-250 Super Duty
Re: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question-Reply
Re: FTE 97up - radiator dimensions
Re: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question-relay to Keith
FTE 97up - Superchip and PSD
Re: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question-Reply
Re: FTE 97up - Tires on F-250 Super Duty
Re: FTE 97up - Tires on F-250 Super Duty
RE: FTE 97up - radiator dimensions
Re: FTE 97up - radiator dimensions
RE: FTE 97up - radiator dimensions
FTE 97up - 99 f-150 question
FTE 97up - Loan calcs

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 07:32:06 -0400
From: Doug Moore
Subject: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question-relay to Keith

I think you are making it too much an ego trip for yourself. I go to the
dealer tell them up front that I am paying cash. I always order (have
special needs) them and get them 0-150 over. I never have any games and
30-45 minutes to order and 45-60 minutes to pickup. It is a quick easy sale
and they can pick a non busy time to do it so I do not keep them from
another sale. I bet Nathan would do the same. Who cares about the look on
the salesman's and finance manager's faces I could care less about. The
look on my wife's face when I buy her a new truck at a good price is what I
am after.

Keith's COMMENT
That's why I pay cash for all my vehicles, besides the financial benefits
and peace-of-mind, I love the look on the salesman's and finance manager's
faces when they say "now, do you want our special lease program or our
special loan program, and how are you want to finance this, over 3, 4 or 5
years?", and then I say "No thank you, we agreed on this price for the truck
(I say, while pointing to the lowest number on the sheet, before any
interest or finance or other charges) who do I make the check payable to?"
Wow! Then I often get the third-degree because I never ever let-on that I am
paying cash (or leasing or buying w/loan) until the deal is done and all the
various paperwork options have been prepared and are ready to be signed.
They act like they did all this extra work for me "finding and securing" the
lowest and best rates and lease deals in the whole Northeast! They demand
that they get an opportunity to go over the loan and lease numbers with me
as they say "let us show you the right way to get in this vehicle, if you
only put down $2,500 and borrow the rest, you can use the cash you save now
to make a killing in the stock market" whereupon I say, "I want to buy a
car, not obtain financial consulting services, where are my new keys?"
Beaten, but not dead yet, they screw their happy sales faces back on and
"remind" me that the total cost for the vehicle is XXXXX + $1,200. Then I
say, no, it isn't. Then they say, well, this $1,200 is our super-duper
giveaway extravaganza on the new, improved short-term/long-term Extended
Warrantee Program!!! Surely you must get that, they say. "You could be out
many, many thousands of dollars for repairs if you don't get this". "We
can't let you out of here without making sure you have the protection
offered by our Extended Warrantee Program!!!, why, that would be malpractice
on our part!!!" Finally, when I tell them that I will listen to them and
discuss the various warrantee and other options, but I will have to charge
them a standard consulting rate of say, $150/hour, and I require a $600
retainer before we start, they give me the (now signed) paperwork, take the
check, give me my keys, and run away........to their next (potential)
victim.....

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:13:26 -0500
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: FTE 97up - Tires on F-250 Super Duty

What's the biggest tire anyone's put on a F-250/350 Super Duty and had the
speedometer recalibrated and match. We're finding out that theirs a limit
to how far the computer will let you go, but I can't find anything on what
the limit is.

Nathan


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 08:43:39 -0600
From: "Daniel M. Richmeier"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Superchip report

Can someone please confirm: Will the chip installed in a 5.4L run on 89
octane. Here in the Denver area, we have only 85, 87 and 89 octane available
(with a thirty cent price spread).
Also, would it be advantageous to install the chip on a truck with a manual
transmission?

Dan in Denver



"Strukel, Mike" wrote:

> 91 - 93 octane, but I have been told that it will run on 89 without any
> pinging. You will just not see quite as much of a performance gain.
>
> Mike Strukel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vaughn (VDB) [mailto:wolf enter.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 11:38 AM
> To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Superchip report
>
> What octane do you need after installing
> said chip? And is there going to be pinging
> problems like with some dodge engines I heard
> about?
>
> Vaughn
>
>
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

"Strukel, Mike" wrote:

> 91 - 93 octane, but I have been told that it will run on 89 without any
> pinging. You will just not see quite as much of a performance gain.
>
> Mike Strukel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vaughn (VDB) [mailto:wolf enter.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 11:38 AM
> To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Superchip report
>
> What octane do you need after installing
> said chip? And is there going to be pinging
> problems like with some dodge engines I heard
> about?
>
> Vaughn
>
>
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html





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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:39:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dan Gaudenti
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Superchip report


> Also, would it be advantageous to install the chip on a truck with a manual
> transmission?
>
> Dan in Denver

I've asked the same question and the answer makes sense: the engine is
going to get the same HP and torque increase regardless of transmission
type. So I would say that the change may not be as dramatic and
noticeable as improved shifting, but the HP increase is definitely there.

Danny

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:55:06 -0700
From: johny
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Tires on F-250 Super Duty

As a side note, my friend that has 295/75/16 on his SD said that the
Speedometer was accurate *after* the tires were put on.
He measured the speed with a GPS.
He had 265/75/16 before.

Having an automatic, he says the shift points are a bit off.
He has not recalibrated the speedometer yet, and may not bother
to. The PSD power compensates adequately. Hauling a lance 820
and a trailer, he's not in any drag races either.

Union Auto wrote:

> What's the biggest tire anyone's put on a F-250/350 Super Duty and had the
> speedometer recalibrated and match. We're finding out that theirs a limit
> to how far the computer will let you go, but I can't find anything on what
> the limit is.
>
> Nathan
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:07:02 -0700
From: "Steve J. Hodson"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question-Reply

A useful ploy that I have been told works well is to always tell the car
salesmen that you will pay for a new vehicle however they want you to and
get right down the business of negotiating the absolute cheapest price
possible. After the sale you pay off the loan before the first payment is
due. At one time there is a small penalty for early re-payment of loans of
this sort but federal truth in lending acts eliminated this. You end up
paying a few days worth of interest on the loan, the salesman gives you the
deal assuming that money will be made on the loan and you pocket the
interest that would have gone to the lender.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Keith Veren
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Thursday, August 12, 1999 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing
question-Reply


>That's why I pay cash for all my vehicles, besides the financial benefits
>and peace-of-mind, I love the look on the salesman's and finance manager's
>faces when they say "now, do you want our special lease program or our
>special loan program, and how are you want to finance this, over 3, 4 or 5
>years?", and then I say "No thank you, we agreed on this price for the
truck
>(I say, while pointing to the lowest number on the sheet, before any
>interest or finance or other charges) who do I make the check payable to?"
>Wow! Then I often get the third-degree because I never ever let-on that I
am
>paying cash (or leasing or buying w/loan) until the deal is done and all
the
>various paperwork options have been prepared and are ready to be signed.
>They act like they did all this extra work for me "finding and securing"
the
>lowest and best rates and lease deals in the whole Northeast! They demand
>that they get an opportunity to go over the loan and lease numbers with me
>as they say "let us show you the right way to get in this vehicle, if you
>only put down $2,500 and borrow the rest, you can use the cash you save now
>to make a killing in the stock market" whereupon I say, "I want to buy a
>car, not obtain financial consulting services, where are my new keys?"
>Beaten, but not dead yet, they screw their happy sales faces back on and
>"remind" me that the total cost for the vehicle is XXXXX + $1,200. Then I
>say, no, it isn't. Then they say, well, this $1,200 is our super-duper
>giveaway extravaganza on the new, improved short-term/long-term Extended
>Warrantee Program!!! Surely you must get that, they say. "You could be
out
>many, many thousands of dollars for repairs if you don't get this". "We
>can't let you out of here without making sure you have the protection
>offered by our Extended Warrantee Program!!!, why, that would be
malpractice
>on our part!!!" Finally, when I tell them that I will listen to them and
>discuss the various warrantee and other options, but I will have to charge
>them a standard consulting rate of say, $150/hour, and I require a $600
>retainer before we start, they give me the (now signed) paperwork, take the
>check, give me my keys, and run away........to their next (potential)
>victim.....
>
>Keith
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: CnC
>To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>Date: Thursday, August 12, 1999 8:32 PM
>Subject: RE: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing
>question-Reply
>
>
>>Nice response, very informative. Thanks, I have a better understanding now
>>why I should pay cash up front.
>>
>>At 04:53 PM 8/12/99 -0400, you wrote:
>>>The key to understanding is the term APR whcih stands for annual
>>percentage rate not 4 year percentage rate.
>>>Basicaly it works this way, the 0.9% rate is applies to the amount you
owe
>>each year not over the whole 4 year
>>>period (therefore the term ANNUAL). What you are talking about is simple
>>interest, banks do not ever use simple
>>>interest. Only the mob uses simple interest, banks get more but hide it
>>by using terms like APR or compound interest.
>>>
>>>Basically this is why an 8% interest home loan on a $100,000 house ends
up
>>costing you close to 300,000 in payoff
>>>not $108,000. For example my 98,000 town house payment is 933 per month.
>>At 12 payments per year for 30 years
>>>thats $335,880 which includes taxes and insurance but you get the idea.
>>You should feel lucky, Super Duty trucks
>>>don't get special rates so my 25K truck has a 33K payoff in 5 years.
>>thats a 32% simple loan but is called a 7.8%
>>>APR loan by the bank.
>>>
>>>Don't try to fight this one it is a battle lost long ago. Banks will
>>never make sense because they refuse to do math in a
>>>simple and straightforward way which the average joe can understand.
>>>
>>>George Croll
>>>EPA-OAR-ARD
>>>(202)564-0162
>>>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>>>
>>
>>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>>
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:29:17 -0400
From: Dean Baruffi
Subject: FTE 97up - radiator dimensions

Can someone that has a 1999 F-150 with a 5.4L please measure their radiator
dimensions. The flex-a-lite technician needs it to match an electric fan
up to an F-150 for me.

Since I won't be getting my vehicle until October, I need a list member to
do this for me.

Thanks in advance.

- -Dean Baruffi



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:29:02 -0500
From: "M. Schmidt"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question-Reply

The problem with that it that if you do it a couple times, your credit gets
screwed up from being "too good" - no lender wants to lend money to someone
who has a history of paying off loans one month into the thing.

I have gone both ways, paid cash last year for my wife's '98 Mustang GT, and
financed my '99 F150 this year. I decided not to pay cash for new vehicles
anymore - the darn things depreciate too fast. Used cars are better to pay
cash for; interest rates on loans are higher, and the rate of depreciation
has dropped.

ms

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Steve J. Hodson
Sent: Friday, August 13, 1999 3:07 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing
question-Reply


A useful ploy that I have been told works well is to always tell the car
salesmen that you will pay for a new vehicle however they want you to and
get right down the business of negotiating the absolute cheapest price
possible. After the sale you pay off the loan before the first payment is
due. At one time there is a small penalty for early re-payment of loans of
this sort but federal truth in lending acts eliminated this. You end up
paying a few days worth of interest on the loan, the salesman gives you the
deal assuming that money will be made on the loan and you pocket the
interest that would have gone to the lender.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Keith Veren
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Thursday, August 12, 1999 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing
question-Reply


>That's why I pay cash for all my vehicles, besides the financial benefits
>and peace-of-mind, I love the look on the salesman's and finance manager's
>faces when they say "now, do you want our special lease program or our
>special loan program, and how are you want to finance this, over 3, 4 or 5
>years?", and then I say "No thank you, we agreed on this price for the
truck
>(I say, while pointing to the lowest number on the sheet, before any
>interest or finance or other charges) who do I make the check payable to?"
>Wow! Then I often get the third-degree because I never ever let-on that I
am
>paying cash (or leasing or buying w/loan) until the deal is done and all
the
>various paperwork options have been prepared and are ready to be signed.
>They act like they did all this extra work for me "finding and securing"
the
>lowest and best rates and lease deals in the whole Northeast! They demand
>that they get an opportunity to go over the loan and lease numbers with me
>as they say "let us show you the right way to get in this vehicle, if you
>only put down $2,500 and borrow the rest, you can use the cash you save now
>to make a killing in the stock market" whereupon I say, "I want to buy a
>car, not obtain financial consulting services, where are my new keys?"
>Beaten, but not dead yet, they screw their happy sales faces back on and
>"remind" me that the total cost for the vehicle is XXXXX + $1,200. Then I
>say, no, it isn't. Then they say, well, this $1,200 is our super-duper
>giveaway extravaganza on the new, improved short-term/long-term Extended
>Warrantee Program!!! Surely you must get that, they say. "You could be
out
>many, many thousands of dollars for repairs if you don't get this". "We
>can't let you out of here without making sure you have the protection
>offered by our Extended Warrantee Program!!!, why, that would be
malpractice
>on our part!!!" Finally, when I tell them that I will listen to them and
>discuss the various warrantee and other options, but I will have to charge
>them a standard consulting rate of say, $150/hour, and I require a $600
>retainer before we start, they give me the (now signed) paperwork, take the
>check, give me my keys, and run away........to their next (potential)
>victim.....
>
>Keith
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: CnC
>To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>Date: Thursday, August 12, 1999 8:32 PM
>Subject: RE: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing
>question-Reply
>
>
>>Nice response, very informative. Thanks, I have a better understanding now
>>why I should pay cash up front.
>>
>>At 04:53 PM 8/12/99 -0400, you wrote:
>>>The key to understanding is the term APR whcih stands for annual
>>percentage rate not 4 year percentage rate.
>>>Basicaly it works this way, the 0.9% rate is applies to the amount you
owe
>>each year not over the whole 4 year
>>>period (therefore the term ANNUAL). What you are talking about is simple
>>interest, banks do not ever use simple
>>>interest. Only the mob uses simple interest, banks get more but hide it
>>by using terms like APR or compound interest.
>>>
>>>Basically this is why an 8% interest home loan on a $100,000 house ends
up
>>costing you close to 300,000 in payoff
>>>not $108,000. For example my 98,000 town house payment is 933 per month.
>>At 12 payments per year for 30 years
>>>thats $335,880 which includes taxes and insurance but you get the idea.
>>You should feel lucky, Super Duty trucks
>>>don't get special rates so my 25K truck has a 33K payoff in 5 years.
>>thats a 32% simple loan but is called a 7.8%
>>>APR loan by the bank.
>>>
>>>Don't try to fight this one it is a battle lost long ago. Banks will
>>never make sense because they refuse to do math in a
>>>simple and straightforward way which the average joe can understand.
>>>
>>>George Croll
>>>EPA-OAR-ARD
>>>(202)564-0162
>>>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>>>
>>
>>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>>
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:38:47 EDT
From: RSnovi aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Tires on F-250 Super Duty

In a message dated 99-08-13 09:45:20 EDT, you write:


i have seen some on 36 or 38s didnt get to talk to the guy to ask him about
it though. I would think you shouldnt have a problem in recal. unless they
have really done something strange to computer which should be able to be
over come through programming.

RS

Date: 99-08-13 09:45:20 EDT
From: unionaut adiis.net (Union Auto)
Sender: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
Reply-to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com (Ford Truck list)

What's the biggest tire anyone's put on a F-250/350 Super Duty and had the
speedometer recalibrated and match. We're finding out that theirs a limit
to how far the computer will let you go, but I can't find anything on what
the limit is.

Nathan


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Subject: FTE 97up - Tires on F-250 Super Duty
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Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:22:10 EDT
From: CERESJohnG aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question-Reply

Actually, theres some logic to financing , although you as a customer pays
for it.

I ran into a person recently who had always paid cash for her cars. Realize,
no new ones, just used ones. Had financed a few but several years ago. She
has savings, mortgage that was up to date, Credit cards up to speed, mostly
paid off, nominal amout of savings. Not a super income biut both she and
husband worked. All in all, one would consider them a reasonable credit
risk. Went to buy a used truck, this time on credit primarily for cash flow
reasons. Could not get a reasonable loan through the dealer. Reason---get
this----they didn't have any current "car credit". Credid cards, Mortgage,
savings didn't help but they obviously could hurt if they werent straight.
The upshot was they could only get one of the "we finance anybody" loans.

She talked to me about it, not for help, I was handy and she neede to vent.
Boy did she. Turns out, I gave her a few options that I knew about. One was
to go to her bank where she had the business accounts and explain the
situation. Branch Managers can do a lot if they want to keep an existing
customer happy. Second was a credit union. She didn't think she qualified,
but I if she joined the local PTA, the local Educators CU would qualify her.
Turns out she had enough equity on her house to qualify for a Home equity
for the amount she wanted--- hey, thats tax deductable too.

I guess the thrust of this is, cash purchase of a car may actually hurt your
credit report if you suddenly need to finance one. Good news is there ways
around the problem.

John G
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:42:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dan Gaudenti
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - radiator dimensions

> Can someone that has a 1999 F-150 with a 5.4L please measure their radiator
> dimensions. The flex-a-lite technician needs it to match an electric fan
> up to an F-150 for me.
>
> Since I won't be getting my vehicle until October, I need a list member to
> do this for me.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> -Dean Baruffi

I don't have a '99 or a 5.4L, but I can tell you that the core
dimensions of my '98 4.2L are 32" wide, 17" high. The shop manual shows
the same radiator part number for all three engines, so this may help
you. I'm using a single 16" PermaCool electric fan and it's worked good
all summer. But I've got the small engine and manual transmission, you
may need more fan.

Danny

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:44:25 -0400
From: "Keith Veren"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question-relay to Keith

Sorry, I should have noted that that is what USED to happen to me when I
purchased cars. I now have a good dealer that always gives me good service,
etc. They know me and how I buy my cars (I always spec them out and order
them).

The illustration was from my direct experience in dealing with sales sharks,
not people that manage dealerships, own them, or are long-term career sales
folks (they are the usually the best).

Keith



>I think you are making it too much an ego trip for yourself. I go to the
>dealer tell them up front that I am paying cash. I always order (have
>special needs) them and get them 0-150 over. I never have any games and
>30-45 minutes to order and 45-60 minutes to pickup. It is a quick easy
sale
>and they can pick a non busy time to do it so I do not keep them from
>another sale. I bet Nathan would do the same. Who cares about the look on
>the salesman's and finance manager's faces I could care less about. The
>look on my wife's face when I buy her a new truck at a good price is what I
>am after.
>
>Keith's COMMENT
>That's why I pay cash for all my vehicles, besides the financial benefits
>and peace-of-mind, I love the look on the salesman's and finance manager's
>faces when they say "now, do you want our special lease program or our
>special loan program, and how are you want to finance this, over 3, 4 or 5
>years?", and then I say "No thank you, we agreed on this price for the
truck
>(I say, while pointing to the lowest number on the sheet, before any
>interest or finance or other charges) who do I make the check payable to?"
>Wow! Then I often get the third-degree because I never ever let-on that I
am
>paying cash (or leasing or buying w/loan) until the deal is done and all
the
>various paperwork options have been prepared and are ready to be signed.
>They act like they did all this extra work for me "finding and securing"
the
>lowest and best rates and lease deals in the whole Northeast! They demand
>that they get an opportunity to go over the loan and lease numbers with me
>as they say "let us show you the right way to get in this vehicle, if you
>only put down $2,500 and borrow the rest, you can use the cash you save now
>to make a killing in the stock market" whereupon I say, "I want to buy a
>car, not obtain financial consulting services, where are my new keys?"
>Beaten, but not dead yet, they screw their happy sales faces back on and
>"remind" me that the total cost for the vehicle is XXXXX + $1,200. Then I
>say, no, it isn't. Then they say, well, this $1,200 is our super-duper
>giveaway extravaganza on the new, improved short-term/long-term Extended
>Warrantee Program!!! Surely you must get that, they say. "You could be
out
>many, many thousands of dollars for repairs if you don't get this". "We
>can't let you out of here without making sure you have the protection
>offered by our Extended Warrantee Program!!!, why, that would be
malpractice
>on our part!!!" Finally, when I tell them that I will listen to them and
>discuss the various warrantee and other options, but I will have to charge
>them a standard consulting rate of say, $150/hour, and I require a $600
>retainer before we start, they give me the (now signed) paperwork, take the
>check, give me my keys, and run away........to their next (potential)
>victim.....
>
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:04:49 -0500
From: Scot Cline
Subject: FTE 97up - Superchip and PSD

Has anyone here used the Superchip w/ the PSD? What kind of mileage
and performance gains, if any?

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:04:34 -0700
From: "Steve J. Hodson"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question-Reply

I usually buy used. On my new SD I had ~$3700 in Ford Citibank credits
toward any new Ford. What a great deal! (if your determined to buy a new
vehicle that is). There was no annual fee and I pay my balances off each
Month. I put everything I could on my card and after 5 years maxed out in
late 1998. I ordered my SD as soon as they were available and used the
credits toward the truck.

- -----Original Message-----
From: M. Schmidt
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Friday, August 13, 1999 10:32 AM
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing
question-Reply


>The problem with that it that if you do it a couple times, your credit gets
>screwed up from being "too good" - no lender wants to lend money to someone
>who has a history of paying off loans one month into the thing.
>
>I have gone both ways, paid cash last year for my wife's '98 Mustang GT,
and
>financed my '99 F150 this year. I decided not to pay cash for new vehicles
>anymore - the darn things depreciate too fast. Used cars are better to pay
>cash for; interest rates on loans are higher, and the rate of depreciation
>has dropped.
>
>ms
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
>[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Steve J. Hodson
>Sent: Friday, August 13, 1999 3:07 PM
>To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>Subject: Re: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing
>question-Reply
>
>
>A useful ploy that I have been told works well is to always tell the car
>salesmen that you will pay for a new vehicle however they want you to and
>get right down the business of negotiating the absolute cheapest price
>possible. After the sale you pay off the loan before the first payment is
>due. At one time there is a small penalty for early re-payment of loans of
>this sort but federal truth in lending acts eliminated this. You end up
>paying a few days worth of interest on the loan, the salesman gives you the

>deal assuming that money will be made on the loan and you pocket the
>interest that would have gone to the lender.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Keith Veren
>To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>Date: Thursday, August 12, 1999 6:49 PM
>Subject: Re: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing
>question-Reply
>
>
>>That's why I pay cash for all my vehicles, besides the financial benefits
>>and peace-of-mind, I love the look on the salesman's and finance manager's
>>faces when they say "now, do you want our special lease program or our
>>special loan program, and how are you want to finance this, over 3, 4 or 5
>>years?", and then I say "No thank you, we agreed on this price for the
>truck
>>(I say, while pointing to the lowest number on the sheet, before any
>>interest or finance or other charges) who do I make the check payable to?"
>>Wow! Then I often get the third-degree because I never ever let-on that I
>am
>>paying cash (or leasing or buying w/loan) until the deal is done and all
>the
>>various paperwork options have been prepared and are ready to be signed.
>>They act like they did all this extra work for me "finding and securing"
>the
>>lowest and best rates and lease deals in the whole Northeast! They demand
>>that they get an opportunity to go over the loan and lease numbers with me
>>as they say "let us show you the right way to get in this vehicle, if you
>>only put down $2,500 and borrow the rest, you can use the cash you save
now
>>to make a killing in the stock market" whereupon I say, "I want to buy a
>>car, not obtain financial consulting services, where are my new keys?"
>>Beaten, but not dead yet, they screw their happy sales faces back on and
>>"remind" me that the total cost for the vehicle is XXXXX + $1,200. Then I
>>say, no, it isn't. Then they say, well, this $1,200 is our super-duper
>>giveaway extravaganza on the new, improved short-term/long-term Extended
>>Warrantee Program!!! Surely you must get that, they say. "You could be
>out
>>many, many thousands of dollars for repairs if you don't get this". "We
>>can't let you out of here without making sure you have the protection
>>offered by our Extended Warrantee Program!!!, why, that would be
>malpractice
>>on our part!!!" Finally, when I tell them that I will listen to them and
>>discuss the various warrantee and other options, but I will have to charge
>>them a standard consulting rate of say, $150/hour, and I require a $600
>>retainer before we start, they give me the (now signed) paperwork, take
the
>>check, give me my keys, and run away........to their next (potential)
>>victim.....
>>
>>Keith
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: CnC
>>To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>>Date: Thursday, August 12, 1999 8:32 PM
>>Subject: RE: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing
>>question-Reply
>>
>>
>>>Nice response, very informative. Thanks, I have a better understanding
now
>>>why I should pay cash up front.
>>>
>>>At 04:53 PM 8/12/99 -0400, you wrote:
>>>>The key to understanding is the term APR whcih stands for annual
>>>percentage rate not 4 year percentage rate.
>>>>Basicaly it works this way, the 0.9% rate is applies to the amount you
>owe
>>>each year not over the whole 4 year
>>>>period (therefore the term ANNUAL). What you are talking about is
simple
>>>interest, banks do not ever use simple
>>>>interest. Only the mob uses simple interest, banks get more but hide it
>>>by using terms like APR or compound interest.
>>>>
>>>>Basically this is why an 8% interest home loan on a $100,000 house ends
>up
>>>costing you close to 300,000 in payoff
>>>>not $108,000. For example my 98,000 town house payment is 933 per
month.
>>>At 12 payments per year for 30 years
>>>>thats $335,880 which includes taxes and insurance but you get the idea.
>>>You should feel lucky, Super Duty trucks
>>>>don't get special rates so my 25K truck has a 33K payoff in 5 years.
>>>thats a 32% simple loan but is called a 7.8%
>>>>APR loan by the bank.
>>>>
>>>>Don't try to fight this one it is a battle lost long ago. Banks will
>>>never make sense because they refuse to do math in a
>>>>simple and straightforward way which the average joe can understand.
>>>>
>>>>George Croll
>>>>EPA-OAR-ARD
>>>>(202)564-0162
>>>>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>>>>
>>>
>>>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>>>
>>
>>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:33:28 -0500
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Tires on F-250 Super Duty

Looks like a 33" (305/70/16) is the biggest that the speedometer will allow.
We just did a F-350 (with 4 wheel ABS) and the speedometer runs off of
revolutions per mile. The lowest it would accept was 601, which translates
to a circumferance of 105.42 inches. I don't know if RABS equiped trucks
have this limitation though.

Nathan Bernard

- ----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Friday, August 13, 1999 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Tires on F-250 Super Duty


> In a message dated 99-08-13 09:45:20 EDT, you write:
>
>
> i have seen some on 36 or 38s didnt get to talk to the guy to ask him
about
> it though. I would think you shouldnt have a problem in recal. unless they
> have really done something strange to computer which should be able to be
> over come through programming.
>
> RS


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:28:21 EDT
From: BIGDAAG aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Tires on F-250 Super Duty

I'm running 35 inch BFG's on my 99-250. I had the dealer recalibrate my
speedo. It seems to be pretty accurate. When my wife was driving next to me
on the highway, side by side, both speedo's read 65 MPH. The dealer charged
me $35 to do it. Did I get ripped off on the price?
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:09:33 -0500
From: "pennhead"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - radiator dimensions

Danny,

Quick question: I know that you will reduce the drain on your engine by
eliminating the crankshaft driven fan, but is it significant enough to
switch to an electric fan?

I also have the 4.2L, a '99 coupled with the 5-speed tranny. Have you any
experience with a Superchip in this engine?

Thanks,
Mark

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Dan Gaudenti
Sent: Friday, August 13, 1999 2:43 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - radiator dimensions


> Can someone that has a 1999 F-150 with a 5.4L please measure their
radiator
> dimensions. The flex-a-lite technician needs it to match an electric fan
> up to an F-150 for me.
>
> Since I won't be getting my vehicle until October, I need a list member to
> do this for me.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> -Dean Baruffi

I don't have a '99 or a 5.4L, but I can tell you that the core
dimensions of my '98 4.2L are 32" wide, 17" high. The shop manual shows
the same radiator part number for all three engines, so this may help
you. I'm using a single 16" PermaCool electric fan and it's worked good
all summer. But I've got the small engine and manual transmission, you
may need more fan.

Danny

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:55:51 EDT
From: RSnovi aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - radiator dimensions

In a message dated 99-08-13 19:08:22 EDT, you write:


correction water pump driven fan.


Date: 99-08-13 19:08:22 EDT
From: pennhead bscn.com (pennhead)
Sender: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
Reply-to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com

Danny,

Quick question: I know that you will reduce the drain on your engine by
eliminating the crankshaft driven fan, but is it significant enough to
switch to an electric fan?

I also have the 4.2L, a '99 coupled with the 5-speed tranny. Have you any
experience with a Superchip in this engine?

Thanks,
Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Dan Gaudenti
Sent: Friday, August 13, 1999 2:43 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - radiator dimensions


> Can someone that has a 1999 F-150 with a 5.4L please measure their
radiator
> dimensions. The flex-a-lite technician needs it to match an electric fan
> up to an F-150 for me.
>
> Since I won't be getting my vehicle until October, I need a list member to
> do this for me.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> -Dean Baruffi

I don't have a '99 or a 5.4L, but I can tell you that the core
dimensions of my '98 4.2L are 32" wide, 17" high. The shop manual shows
the same radiator part number for all three engines, so this may help
you. I'm using a single 16" PermaCool electric fan and it's worked good
all summer. But I've got the small engine and manual transmission, you
may need more fan.

Danny

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From: "pennhead"
To:
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - radiator dimensions
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:09:33 -0500
Message-ID:
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Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:40:07 -0500
From: "pennhead"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - radiator dimensions

I beg to differ, my good man. The water pump is also driven off the
crankshaft. The water pump sheave merely provides a mounting surface for
the fan. You will note that it is driven by the back (flat) side of the
serpentine belt, therefore it spins in the opposite direction of the
crankshaft. The water pump drives nothing.

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of RSnovi aol.com
Sent: Friday, August 13, 1999 7:56 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - radiator dimensions


In a message dated 99-08-13 19:08:22 EDT, you write:


correction water pump driven fan.


Date: 99-08-13 19:08:22 EDT
From: pennhead bscn.com (pennhead)
Sender: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
Reply-to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com

Danny,

Quick question: I know that you will reduce the drain on your engine by
eliminating the crankshaft driven fan, but is it significant enough to
switch to an electric fan?

I also have the 4.2L, a '99 coupled with the 5-speed tranny. Have you any
experience with a Superchip in this engine?

Thanks,
Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Dan Gaudenti
Sent: Friday, August 13, 1999 2:43 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - radiator dimensions


> Can someone that has a 1999 F-150 with a 5.4L please measure their
radiator
> dimensions. The flex-a-lite technician needs it to match an electric fan
> up to an F-150 for me.
>
> Since I won't be getting my vehicle until October, I need a list member
to
> do this for me.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> -Dean Baruffi

I don't have a '99 or a 5.4L, but I can tell you that the core
dimensions of my '98 4.2L are 32" wide, 17" high. The shop manual shows
the same radiator part number for all three engines, so this may help
you. I'm using a single 16" PermaCool electric fan and it's worked good
all summer. But I've got the small engine and manual transmission, you
may need more fan.

Danny

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From: "pennhead"
To:
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - radiator dimensions
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:09:33 -0500
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:42:12 EDT
From: TRITON46L aol.com
Subject: FTE 97up - 99 f-150 question

i have a 99 f-150 4x2 4.6L v-8 3.55 reg axle supercab, 4 spd auto. it has
the sport package(p275 70R16 tires). i am in oklahoma city in the military.
my wife and i drove back to her home in omaha nebr. the highway speeds up
I-35, and so on are between 70-75, lower in construction zones of course.
anyway, the tires have shorter sidewalls and a wider tread width. i hear
this is better for traction. but the problem is, that when i am driving on
the interstate highway, when i hit a bump, the rearend jumps side to side.
almost like the sidewalls are flexing. it doesn't strike me as being very
safe to have a vehicle like this, especially a truck.

i'm not sure if this is normal for a truck with these sport tires, but i'm
not sure because i've never owned a truck with a sport package.

i also tow a 17' Glassmate fishing boat. it might weigh 3500(just a guess),
boat and trailer. the 4.6L engine seems kind of overworked. it's like it
revs real high between gear changes. this is my first boat and first time
towing something with a new truck.

if anyone has any comments, i would greatly appreciate them.

thanks for your time
Bill
TRITON46L aol.com
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Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:55:45 -0500
From: "Daniel Bruno"
Subject: FTE 97up - Loan calcs

This is a bit long, so I do apologize in advance. This is for information
only and not an attempt to contradict any other postings by our other fine
list members.

As best as I can determine, we all are talking about simple interest loans.
That refers to the fact that the interest rate never changes. That is to
say that the NOMINAL interest rate never changes.

Any time that you see APR, it is a simple interest rate loan, and the number
expressed as a percent is a nominal rate. What affects the total amount of....


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